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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811

Since we're Buffing Stamina Warden while Magden slips into Insecurity, I have some Ideas

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Mr_Stach
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Unlike Magicka Warden, Stamden is getting some good changes. Hemorrhage & Bleed on Wild Guardian is great. But there's some things we should look at:
  1. Warden has 0 Bleed Passives, If we want our Bleedy Boy to be the Bleedy Boy, I'd suggest changing the Piercing Cold Passive to include Bleed and removing Magic.
  2. Cutting Dive is too slow, speed it up a smidge, also the ranged off balance aspect should go, just make it like Fetcher Infection, every second cast does the Bleed DoT
  3. Now although I think Sub Assault is fine, the double burst is fine. Just Make it bleed.
  4. Also let's add Snare Removal/immunity onto Falcon's Swiftness

Something else I've thought about is Necropotence, What if it added Stam and Magicka, or Added whichever value is higher, might be an interesting thought experiment.

Anyways there's some thoughts.
Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Might as well just remove all magic costing morphs from the dmg skills. You wouldn't even notice even when playing mag.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Mr_Stach
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    ikpte4ul31jo.png
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Everest_Lionheart
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    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.
  • Mr_Stach
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    I would still argue that your main resource pool still shapes whether or not you're Stam or Mag. Yes Hybridization is here but you still fully invest into one resource for max damage potential. The Hybridization just means you always get to pick the best morph on every skill. Like if you are Max Mag, with a Destro Staff, using a Mag Spammable, are you not a Mag Build?
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • GetAgrippa
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    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    Some people would like to take their wardens into pvp. Not sure Bahsei and Relequen are going to help much there
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Runefang
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    Stamcro with magicka BB want a word, but yes it’s generally true.
  • Tannus15
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.
    Edited by Tannus15 on May 9, 2022 10:18PM
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc. And this is a warden post. You can't exactly sustain cutting very well on magden.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on May 9, 2022 10:20PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Tannus15
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)
  • MashmalloMan
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    Either way, there is ways around things with high resources and sustain, but stam vs mag is still very much a playstyle choice.

    I think pvers are just not use to this, pvp has had hybrid bars for years. As stam sorc, half my skills have always been mag. I still feel like a stam sorc and my idea of a mag sorc would be completely different.

    Mag warden's are severely lacking.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit

    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Kory
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    ikpte4ul31jo.png

    :D
  • Everest_Lionheart
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    I would still argue that your main resource pool still shapes whether or not you're Stam or Mag. Yes Hybridization is here but you still fully invest into one resource for max damage potential. The Hybridization just means you always get to pick the best morph on every skill. Like if you are Max Mag, with a Destro Staff, using a Mag Spammable, are you not a Mag Build?

    In PvE it’s stam shalks everywhere, daggers front bar, 2H backbar regardless of stam or mag. The byproduct of this on magden is the sustain problems the class had are gone and you’ve bout yourself some extra GCD’s by not having to cast netch. Same as their stam counterpart which by the way is disgusting in Bahsei because keeping a low mag pool is way too easy which we are doing with mag flies, winters revenge and scalding rune. Yes it hits way higher than it’s mag counterpart but you can easily say the same thing about Cro and Sorc.
  • Tannus15
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Tannus15
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.

    So you're using a stam sustain set to sustain it on magden. Yeah nah nice dps loss in trials.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Tannus15
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.

    So you're using a stam sustain set to sustain it on magden. Yeah nah nice dps loss in trials.

    sorry, that's on my stamden. on my frostden i just went in with frostbite, master staff, 4pc pFG and pale order.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.

    So you're using a stam sustain set to sustain it on magden. Yeah nah nice dps loss in trials.

    sorry, that's on my stamden. on my frostden i just went in with frostbite, master staff, 4pc pFG and pale order.

    so, you're using cutting dive on your frostden with frostbite?
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Tannus15
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    this was my cheap and nasty vMA setup for my stamden

    kgmm82ncp27z.png

    i will say i think warden is better as a ranged build than a melee build, and that bows suck. make of that what you will
  • Tannus15
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.

    So you're using a stam sustain set to sustain it on magden. Yeah nah nice dps loss in trials.

    sorry, that's on my stamden. on my frostden i just went in with frostbite, master staff, 4pc pFG and pale order.

    so, you're using cutting dive on your frostden with frostbite?

    god no. master staff and frostreach.
  • Aldoss
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.

    So you're using a stam sustain set to sustain it on magden. Yeah nah nice dps loss in trials.

    sorry, that's on my stamden. on my frostden i just went in with frostbite, master staff, 4pc pFG and pale order.

    so, you're using cutting dive on your frostden with frostbite?

    god no. master staff and frostreach.

    Am I missing something? Your build screen shot is showing your "frost" warden double barring inferno staves, with 0 frost skills slotted.

    Edit - nevermind I'm an idiot.
    Edited by Aldoss on May 9, 2022 11:42PM
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
    There is no mag vs stam anymore. Lean into the hybridization. Throw Bahsei on your fauxstamden and Rele on your slightly mag heavy den and enjoy it while it lasts.

    That isn't entirely true. Your spammable still dictates your max stat leaning.

    not really. your spammable dictates your main stat regen. half my builds at the moment are using the off stat as spammable.

    Yeah but you do play sorc.

    check the warden vMA leaderboard on live ;)

    Well. I would if i could. My guess is you're probably using deep fissure because that's a solo arena?

    nah, sub assault ftw. but i do have a stam warden and a frost warden up there. personally i find frost / mag warden significantly better than stam warden.

    Are you using the red kill stam sustain cp?

    no, i'm running VO front bar, ez times.

    So you're using a stam sustain set to sustain it on magden. Yeah nah nice dps loss in trials.

    sorry, that's on my stamden. on my frostden i just went in with frostbite, master staff, 4pc pFG and pale order.

    so, you're using cutting dive on your frostden with frostbite?

    god no. master staff and frostreach.

    so, you're not using a stamina spammable on your frostden. then what was the point of this discussion?
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • MudcrabAttack
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    At this point if it’s not about looks, I’m seeing so many people identifying as mages while holding dual wield and great swords, what does it matter anymore? It’s just which pool you are stacking for a spammable

    As far as looks go, my ranged stamwarden has never looked more like a mage than it has over this last patch. Slotting double destro staff, Bahsei, throwing the superior fetcher infection and winters revenge at stuff — just try throwing winters revenge at something while holding a bow, it adds a really bad delay for the next bow light attack, so does scalding rune, lightweight trap, caltrops, endless hail, spiders, + extra lag. Im fine with my character looking like a mage, my goal this patch has been piling up as many different status effects as possible, like a thick soup of everything including the kitchen sink, already setup for the new pen CP to come out
  • Nser
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    Unlike Magicka Warden, Stamden is getting some good changes. Hemorrhage & Bleed on Wild Guardian is great. But there's some things we should look at:
    1. Warden has 0 Bleed Passives, If we want our Bleedy Boy to be the Bleedy Boy, I'd suggest changing the Piercing Cold Passive to include Bleed and removing Magic.
    2. Cutting Dive is too slow, speed it up a smidge, also the ranged off balance aspect should go, just make it like Fetcher Infection, every second cast does the Bleed DoT
    3. Now although I think Sub Assault is fine, the double burst is fine. Just Make it bleed.
    4. Also let's add Snare Removal/immunity onto Falcon's Swiftness

    Something else I've thought about is Necropotence, What if it added Stam and Magicka, or Added whichever value is higher, might be an interesting thought experiment.

    Anyways there's some thoughts.

    can get behind this but dont take away the 10% magic damage from Piercing cold.
    Warden currently (pvp) has good synergy using Arterial Burst or Blood for Blood as their spammable in a melee playstyle and part of that is bc Piercing cold nets them higher tooltips at base.
    A high health playstyle with Blood for Blood + Warden made the vampire rework worthwhile and losing the passive would make it fall more into mediocre.

    I'm all for buffs and reworks if they dont interact with existing playstyles.
    Changing Piercing cold nerfs Magden (pvp) mostly and i doubt thats a good thing

    I know this is not valid for most people but just wanted to point it out
    Edited by Nser on May 10, 2022 5:22PM
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    Fine. Add Bleed Damage to.... Flourish?

    I dunno.

    Or. Savage Beast..... that sounds better
    Edited by Mr_Stach on May 10, 2022 5:27PM
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Pterion87
    Pterion87
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    Unlike Magicka Warden, Stamden is getting some good changes. Hemorrhage & Bleed on Wild Guardian is great. But there's some things we should look at:
    1. Warden has 0 Bleed Passives, If we want our Bleedy Boy to be the Bleedy Boy, I'd suggest changing the Piercing Cold Passive to include Bleed and removing Magic.
    2. Cutting Dive is too slow, speed it up a smidge, also the ranged off balance aspect should go, just make it like Fetcher Infection, every second cast does the Bleed DoT
    3. Now although I think Sub Assault is fine, the double burst is fine. Just Make it bleed.
    4. Also let's add Snare Removal/immunity onto Falcon's Swiftness

    Something else I've thought about is Necropotence, What if it added Stam and Magicka, or Added whichever value is higher, might be an interesting thought experiment.
    Anyways there's some thoughts.

    Nope wardens are ok rn.

    Edited by Pterion87 on May 10, 2022 5:28PM
  • Nser
    Nser
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    instead of a multiplier like piercing cold, perhaps a different passive can get some xtra effect when targetting bleeding enemies or allies. Similair to how Glacial Presence does something for Chilled.

    Some passive in the Animal Companion skill line sounds perfect for this, maybe Advanced Species
    Edited by Nser on May 10, 2022 5:31PM
  • Nser
    Nser
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    Per animal companion ability slotted gain 2% damage done, and some effect to bleed.
    Sounds about right? fits the theme of the skill line imo
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