newtinmpls wrote: »DPS has a long wait.
If you queue for DPS you will have a long wait for a random.
For me, I address this by having a second setup for all of my characters.
All my magicka characters have healing setups, and I mean full setups - skills, gear and so on.
All my stamina characters have tanking setups, again skills, pulls, taunts, gear and the whole thing.
Works for me.
FeedbackOnly wrote: »Healing should scale to a new stat. Leave base amount of healing, but create new stat.
I also dislike weak players attempting to fake tank RNDs. Luckily there's an easy solution for that.adamsmith42 wrote: »Like I said, I don't mind when a DPS who can solo the place runs as tank/heals (especially since those players usually at least slot a taunt or heal in case things go badly), but I would GLADLY give up those runs to be free of all the weak DW/bow nightblades who ruin the experience for everyone else because they can't be bothered to wait a few minutes in the queue.
neferpitou73 wrote: »neferpitou73 wrote: »Again, I will take complaints about fake tanks seriously when the average DPS can do more than 20k in a dungeon. Until then if some uber DPS wants to queue up and make the dungeon go faster I have no issues.
I think a better solution to this would be to actually teach people how to DPS ingame instead of having everyone rely on youtube videos
I think that your assumption that the fake tanks are uber DPS is the wrong one, especially considering you assert that the average DPS can't do more than 20K in the preceding statement. The solution is to teach people how to DPS rather than expect people not to do something that is obviously subverting the system? You forget that many of these people don't even necessarily care about doing more than 20k DPS, or have any interest in listening to some stranger's advice on the DPS role. The last time I suggested that I could help someone with their build, their response was '[snip] you, this is MY build.'. What I and many other people advocate for is players honoring the roles they sign up for, which is totally reasonable. What you are advocating for is a solution for casual DPS under the false assumption that the only reason they aren't doing more damage is that ZOS hasn't taught them how. Don't worry, the people that want to do good DPS are going to find a way to do it. Casuals make up like 70% of the playerbase.
Your argument is based on "If you sign up as a tank, you need to play the tank role or you're disrespecting your teammates"
My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"
Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason.
For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people.
I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.
But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)
proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »This must be the 942th thread about fake roles in pug... yeah it sucks... no they wont do anything, better if you play dungeons with friends and guildies otherwise youll find fake roles every now and then (which is not that horrible if youre playing a decent build)
Also, lately, for me at least, "a few minutes" has been up to 25 minute waits as a DPS (I farm stuff and do overland quests so no harm no foul). No clue how/if there's a real "fix" for the queue times, but I imagine if you fix the source of the problem, fakes would clear up a bit.
neferpitou73 wrote: »neferpitou73 wrote: »Again, I will take complaints about fake tanks seriously when the average DPS can do more than 20k in a dungeon. Until then if some uber DPS wants to queue up and make the dungeon go faster I have no issues.
I think a better solution to this would be to actually teach people how to DPS ingame instead of having everyone rely on youtube videos
I think that your assumption that the fake tanks are uber DPS is the wrong one, especially considering you assert that the average DPS can't do more than 20K in the preceding statement. The solution is to teach people how to DPS rather than expect people not to do something that is obviously subverting the system? You forget that many of these people don't even necessarily care about doing more than 20k DPS, or have any interest in listening to some stranger's advice on the DPS role. The last time I suggested that I could help someone with their build, their response was '[snip] you, this is MY build.'. What I and many other people advocate for is players honoring the roles they sign up for, which is totally reasonable. What you are advocating for is a solution for casual DPS under the false assumption that the only reason they aren't doing more damage is that ZOS hasn't taught them how. Don't worry, the people that want to do good DPS are going to find a way to do it. Casuals make up like 70% of the playerbase.
Your argument is based on "If you sign up as a tank, you need to play the tank role or you're disrespecting your teammates"
My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"
Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason.
For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people.
I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.
But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)
Kidgangster101 wrote: »Also, lately, for me at least, "a few minutes" has been up to 25 minute waits as a DPS (I farm stuff and do overland quests so no harm no foul). No clue how/if there's a real "fix" for the queue times, but I imagine if you fix the source of the problem, fakes would clear up a bit.
The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do.
Now I know the solo community will get upset, so maybe have a solo version where things are weaker. But in general this is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Solo players shouldn't be catered to at the cost of GROUP play. When they design these dungeons it is with group play intended unless it's like maelstrom arena.
I agree with Just leave group, 13-15 min waiting will save you a lot of mental health. Or ask kindly in chat to be kicked to avoid waiting time penalty for leaving.
Some folks don't know what roles even are, and some play the game very casually to even care to optimize. There's a wide range of players, so if you're in a group setting that you don't enjoy, I suggest leaving instead of grieving others or being toxic.
Kidgangster101 wrote: »Also, lately, for me at least, "a few minutes" has been up to 25 minute waits as a DPS (I farm stuff and do overland quests so no harm no foul). No clue how/if there's a real "fix" for the queue times, but I imagine if you fix the source of the problem, fakes would clear up a bit.
The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do.
Now I know the solo community will get upset, so maybe have a solo version where things are weaker. But in general this is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Solo players shouldn't be catered to at the cost of GROUP play. When they design these dungeons it is with group play intended unless it's like maelstrom arena.
"The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do."
60% of the player base can't do more than 30k single target - many of whom cannot or are unwilling to attempt a veteran dungeon. Tanks don't want to queue because low DPS makes dungeons drag on way longer than necessary. And your solution is to make the game more difficult? [snip]
Just add a role change cooldown (at least 24 hours) that is saved in the armory. Or let the dungeon finder auto-detect based on your gear and stats when you queue with less than a full group. It doesn't matter if it's bad, as long as it's good enough to detect that healers have a resto staff and tanks have a taunt and shield, people will queue properly.
Thecompton73 wrote: »neferpitou73 wrote: »neferpitou73 wrote: »Again, I will take complaints about fake tanks seriously when the average DPS can do more than 20k in a dungeon. Until then if some uber DPS wants to queue up and make the dungeon go faster I have no issues.
I think a better solution to this would be to actually teach people how to DPS ingame instead of having everyone rely on youtube videos
I think that your assumption that the fake tanks are uber DPS is the wrong one, especially considering you assert that the average DPS can't do more than 20K in the preceding statement. The solution is to teach people how to DPS rather than expect people not to do something that is obviously subverting the system? You forget that many of these people don't even necessarily care about doing more than 20k DPS, or have any interest in listening to some stranger's advice on the DPS role. The last time I suggested that I could help someone with their build, their response was 'F you, this is MY build.'. What I and many other people advocate for is players honoring the roles they sign up for, which is totally reasonable. What you are advocating for is a solution for casual DPS under the false assumption that the only reason they aren't doing more damage is that ZOS hasn't taught them how. Don't worry, the people that want to do good DPS are going to find a way to do it. Casuals make up like 70% of the playerbase.
Your argument is based on "If you sign up as a tank, you need to play the tank role or you're disrespecting your teammates"
My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"
Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason.
For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people.
I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.
But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)
100% this. Bad DPS never want to admit they're the problem when a run fails and instead try to blame the tank or the healer even when the fail is clearly because they can't meet a DPS check.
I remember getting crazy abuse from a 400 CP DD when they and thier 600 CP DD friend couldn't burn the Spriggan boss in March of Sacrifices before the one shot mechanic. They completely ignored getting the synergy and then standing in the right spot to survive. So not enough DPS to skip the mechanic and not enough sense to do it correctly yet it was my fault somehow. When they kept talking crap I left and queued up for the same dungeon, got good DPS and breezed through.
So it felt good knowing it hadn't been me holding us back but the initial experience still really turned me off to PUGing as a tank. Why put myself out there to be abused by jerks that can't admit their own inadequacies?
Vote to kick the faker, and if it doesn't pass leave the group. I refuse to play with fakers and as a "real" healer it doesn't take me long to get a new group going if I bail. I stick to vet dungeons because it weeds out most of the losers who queue for fake roles.
Vote to kick the faker, and if it doesn't pass leave the group. I refuse to play with fakers and as a "real" healer it doesn't take me long to get a new group going if I bail. I stick to vet dungeons because it weeds out most of the losers who queue for fake roles.
and it seems logical if people vote kicked them often it would go a long way to curb this behavior. It can persist only if the player base permits it.
Nothing will change. Even when an actual tank or healer shows up, people will complain that they aren't good enough tanks, or not good enough of a healer. This is just the reality in random dungeons.
Best thing to do is look for players by class in zone chat or in guild chat for ur dungeon runs
Dps queues would be much longer without fake tanks. Most real tanks never queue for normals because there's simply nothing for them to do there. And alot of tanks also avoid pug vets because group dps is often very low.