SOMETHING needs to be done about fake roles in the finder

MidniteOwl1913

newtinmpls wrote: »

DPS has a long wait.

If you queue for DPS you will have a long wait for a random.

For me, I address this by having a second setup for all of my characters.

All my magicka characters have healing setups, and I mean full setups - skills, gear and so on.

All my stamina characters have tanking setups, again skills, pulls, taunts, gear and the whole thing.

Works for me.

Yes! Exactly! If you don't want to wait learn to tank or heal. Don't feel you are entitled to queue for a role without being prepared to do the role. You are the fake, not a low damage DPS.

FeedbackOnly

Healing should scale to a new stat. Leave base amount of healing, but create new stat.

wolfie1.0.

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Healing should scale to a new stat. Leave base amount of healing, but create new stat.

That goes 100% against the let's simplify the game with hybridization of everything model they are adopting.

WiseSky

The only thing that can be done is for a Moderator to make a pinned post about this topic.

ixthUA

More people should queue as fake tanks/healers (in RND only), so DDs who queue as DD would have shorter queue times.
I have nothing against fake roles in normal dungeons.

LashanW

adamsmith42 wrote: »

Like I said, I don't mind when a DPS who can solo the place runs as tank/heals (especially since those players usually at least slot a taunt or heal in case things go badly), but I would GLADLY give up those runs to be free of all the weak DW/bow nightblades who ruin the experience for everyone else because they can't be bothered to wait a few minutes in the queue.

I also dislike weak players attempting to fake tank RNDs. Luckily there's an easy solution for that.
Queue for the tank role yourself. It's what I do.

If you have high dps all you need is Inner beast skill from Undaunted skill line (that morph gives 10% dps boost for taunting) and Ring of the pale order (if your class doesn't have good passive heals).

rbfrgsp

Every in-game "downvote" system is open to horrible abuse. The vote to kick system is the least worst option possible and is already available in game but is rarely utilised.

Saieden

Just add a role change cooldown (at least 24 hours) that is saved in the armory. Or let the dungeon finder auto-detect based on your gear and stats when you queue with less than a full group. It doesn't matter if it's bad, as long as it's good enough to detect that healers have a resto staff and tanks have a taunt and shield, people will queue properly.

Molydeus

Vote to kick the faker, and if it doesn't pass leave the group. I refuse to play with fakers and as a "real" healer it doesn't take me long to get a new group going if I bail. I stick to vet dungeons because it weeds out most of the losers who queue for fake roles.

Thecompton73

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Again, I will take complaints about fake tanks seriously when the average DPS can do more than 20k in a dungeon. Until then if some uber DPS wants to queue up and make the dungeon go faster I have no issues.

I think a better solution to this would be to actually teach people how to DPS ingame instead of having everyone rely on youtube videos

I think that your assumption that the fake tanks are uber DPS is the wrong one, especially considering you assert that the average DPS can't do more than 20K in the preceding statement. The solution is to teach people how to DPS rather than expect people not to do something that is obviously subverting the system? You forget that many of these people don't even necessarily care about doing more than 20k DPS, or have any interest in listening to some stranger's advice on the DPS role. The last time I suggested that I could help someone with their build, their response was '[snip] you, this is MY build.'. What I and many other people advocate for is players honoring the roles they sign up for, which is totally reasonable. What you are advocating for is a solution for casual DPS under the false assumption that the only reason they aren't doing more damage is that ZOS hasn't taught them how. Don't worry, the people that want to do good DPS are going to find a way to do it. Casuals make up like 70% of the playerbase.

Your argument is based on "If you sign up as a tank, you need to play the tank role or you're disrespecting your teammates"

My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"

Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason.

For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people.

I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.

But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)

100% this. Bad DPS never want to admit they're the problem when a run fails and instead try to blame the tank or the healer even when the fail is clearly because they can't meet a DPS check.
I remember getting crazy abuse from a 400 CP DD when they and thier 600 CP DD friend couldn't burn the Spriggan boss in March of Sacrifices before the one shot mechanic. They completely ignored getting the synergy and then standing in the right spot to survive. So not enough DPS to skip the mechanic and not enough sense to do it correctly yet it was my fault somehow. When they kept talking crap I left and queued up for the same dungeon, got good DPS and breezed through.
So it felt good knowing it hadn't been me holding us back but the initial experience still really turned me off to PUGing as a tank. Why put myself out there to be abused by jerks that can't admit their own inadequacies?

[edited to remove quote]

S0Z0H

Nothing will change. Even when an actual tank or healer shows up, people will complain that they aren't good enough tanks, or not good enough of a healer. This is just the reality in random dungeons.
Best thing to do is look for players by class in zone chat or in guild chat for ur dungeon runs

Veinblood1965

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

This must be the 942th thread about fake roles in pug... yeah it sucks... no they wont do anything, better if you play dungeons with friends and guildies otherwise youll find fake roles every now and then (which is not that horrible if youre playing a decent build)

Actually it's the 1026th thread about this issue. I started putting a quarter into a jar each time I've seen one and I now have $256.50. You should see the jar for Dark Convergence threads.

Kidgangster101

DigiAngel wrote: »

Also, lately, for me at least, "a few minutes" has been up to 25 minute waits as a DPS (I farm stuff and do overland quests so no harm no foul). No clue how/if there's a real "fix" for the queue times, but I imagine if you fix the source of the problem, fakes would clear up a bit.

The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do.

Now I know the solo community will get upset, so maybe have a solo version where things are weaker. But in general this is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Solo players shouldn't be catered to at the cost of GROUP play. When they design these dungeons it is with group play intended unless it's like maelstrom arena.

Kahnak

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Again, I will take complaints about fake tanks seriously when the average DPS can do more than 20k in a dungeon. Until then if some uber DPS wants to queue up and make the dungeon go faster I have no issues.

I think a better solution to this would be to actually teach people how to DPS ingame instead of having everyone rely on youtube videos

I think that your assumption that the fake tanks are uber DPS is the wrong one, especially considering you assert that the average DPS can't do more than 20K in the preceding statement. The solution is to teach people how to DPS rather than expect people not to do something that is obviously subverting the system? You forget that many of these people don't even necessarily care about doing more than 20k DPS, or have any interest in listening to some stranger's advice on the DPS role. The last time I suggested that I could help someone with their build, their response was '[snip] you, this is MY build.'. What I and many other people advocate for is players honoring the roles they sign up for, which is totally reasonable. What you are advocating for is a solution for casual DPS under the false assumption that the only reason they aren't doing more damage is that ZOS hasn't taught them how. Don't worry, the people that want to do good DPS are going to find a way to do it. Casuals make up like 70% of the playerbase.

Your argument is based on "If you sign up as a tank, you need to play the tank role or you're disrespecting your teammates"

My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"

Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason.

For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people.

I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.

But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)

"My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"

No, your argument up until now was, that someone else (not you, obviously, because that would require effort on your part) should teach people who do low DPS how to do more than 20k, otherwise you're not going to take legitimate complaints seriously. I myself have been helping people improve their DPS for a long time and my experience is that most casual players (the majority of the player base) don't care to do any more DPS than they are doing, and unless they express a desire to do more DPS they will often react defensively if you attempt to help them. This is a direct result of the 'play how you want' way that this game is sold to people.

"Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason."

Uh, yeah, it's not a mystery. I didn't express any confusion about why someone may not have interest in tanking a random dungeon. Regardless, it doesn't justify fake tanking, so not sure what point you're trying to make. People aren't fake tanking because there is a shortage of tanks - they are doing it for the shorter queue times.

"For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people."

No, that's obviously not what I said. I don't have any interest in reporting anyone.

I know this is hard to imagine, but there are people that play this game that don't care how much damage they do in a dungeon and that having ZOS attempt to teach them how would serve no purpose. Not to mention that it would be contradictory to how ZOS sells this game in the first place. To these people I would say, "Stay in Normal', but unfortunately I don't get to be the arbiter of who gets to participate in Vet dungeons.

"I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.

But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)"

I'm not sure how you can reckon this considering, more often than not, you're going to be sacrificing one for the other and the majority of the time people are going to choose to play how they want as paramount over respecting other people. You acknowledge and respect another's choice to play how they want, but your prerequisite for doing dungeons is more than 20k DPS. That's not even logically consistent.

[edited to remove quote]

Kahnak

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

Also, lately, for me at least, "a few minutes" has been up to 25 minute waits as a DPS (I farm stuff and do overland quests so no harm no foul). No clue how/if there's a real "fix" for the queue times, but I imagine if you fix the source of the problem, fakes would clear up a bit.

The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do.

Now I know the solo community will get upset, so maybe have a solo version where things are weaker. But in general this is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Solo players shouldn't be catered to at the cost of GROUP play. When they design these dungeons it is with group play intended unless it's like maelstrom arena.

"The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do."

60% of the player base can't do more than 30k single target - many of whom cannot or are unwilling to attempt a veteran dungeon. Tanks don't want to queue because low DPS makes dungeons drag on way longer than necessary. And your solution is to make the game more difficult? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Lazuli

I agree with Just leave group, 13-15 min waiting will save you a lot of mental health. Or ask kindly in chat to be kicked to avoid waiting time penalty for leaving.

Some folks don't know what roles even are, and some play the game very casually to even care to optimize. There's a wide range of players, so if you're in a group setting that you don't enjoy, I suggest leaving instead of grieving others or being toxic.

Lazuli

Lazuli wrote: »

I agree with Just leave group, 13-15 min waiting will save you a lot of mental health. Or ask kindly in chat to be kicked to avoid waiting time penalty for leaving.

Some folks don't know what roles even are, and some play the game very casually to even care to optimize. There's a wide range of players, so if you're in a group setting that you don't enjoy, I suggest leaving instead of grieving others or being toxic.

Some people have really hard days sometimes and this could be their only opportunity to unwind, so remind yourself to be kind, if you can't, then let someone else

Kidgangster101

Kahnak wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

Also, lately, for me at least, "a few minutes" has been up to 25 minute waits as a DPS (I farm stuff and do overland quests so no harm no foul). No clue how/if there's a real "fix" for the queue times, but I imagine if you fix the source of the problem, fakes would clear up a bit.

The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do.

Now I know the solo community will get upset, so maybe have a solo version where things are weaker. But in general this is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Solo players shouldn't be catered to at the cost of GROUP play. When they design these dungeons it is with group play intended unless it's like maelstrom arena.

"The fix is simple they just won't do it. The fix is as simple as buff ALL mobs to hit extremely hard. You add an AOE taunt into the game so actual tanks can grab everything healer is needed because the mobs hit tanks hard. This also forces tanks to wear sets that help them survive rather than healer/tank just using whatever set increases DPS the most. Bam problem solved that took me all of two seconds to do."

60% of the player base can't do more than 30k single target - many of whom cannot or are unwilling to attempt a veteran dungeon. Tanks don't want to queue because low DPS makes dungeons drag on way longer than necessary. And your solution is to make the game more difficult? [snip]

How does that make the game harder? 🤣 You understand how easy it is to hit 15-20k DPS? And for anything non dlc that is more than enough DPS to beat a dungeon.

You are correct that tanks don't que because of bad DPS or DPS rushing ahead. That creates the whole fake tank/healer que. But with this method you will fix that que because DPS will either have to learn/convert to a different role for faster ques or join the que as a DPS.

It fixes the immediate problem of a DPS that sits in que for 25 mins and then gets into content and not able to complete it. Then basically end up right back in the DPS que.........

Zos needs to do a better job teaching people for sure, but it's also the self entitled players that think they are great and when you try to tell them spamming snipe over over again isn't doing damage they say "you don't pay my sub" or "don't tell me how to play" when in fact his play is interfering with my play............ No matter what those players will always exist and guess what? Most of them are the ones who que in as tank/healer.......

So yeah tell me what is worse? My change actually encouraged to try change and promote roles (something that is long long lost in this community) as everyone has to support DPS through sets ect to help them push out the highest damage possible. Maybe just maybe if you actually had tanks/healers feel needed they would participate in things or encourage new ones to try.

[edited to remove quote]

renne

Saieden wrote: »

Just add a role change cooldown (at least 24 hours) that is saved in the armory. Or let the dungeon finder auto-detect based on your gear and stats when you queue with less than a full group. It doesn't matter if it's bad, as long as it's good enough to detect that healers have a resto staff and tanks have a taunt and shield, people will queue properly.

This is not a good idea. A role change cooldown? What is the point of the armory if you're locked to a set up for 24 hours? Punishing people for playing multiple roles on the one character is ridiculous and not the way to go about it. And on PC they just use addons anyway.

Detecting if healers have a resto or a tank has a taunt and a shield is also a bad idea, because it's so easy to swap out gear and skills, and with class kit, some classes can easily heal without a resto. Plus some tanks run ice/ice and don't even have a sword and shield, you want to punish them for not tanking the same old way as everyone else?

Wolfpaw

2nd post, & lost count to the responses I have left to these posts. The solution for EVERYONE is a ESO version of GW2 lfg tool.

Examples how this tool can be used if you have never played GW2, basically how it would work...

Open lfg tool and choose dungeon (norm/vet)>fill in playstyle/requirements (examples below)>other players look through desired dungeon posts and join group>when group is fulfilled click Enter Dungeon to begin.

Lf2dps and 1healer Story mode - we take out time!

Lf3dps speed run daily

Lf1dps skin run - 1500cp+ only

Lf1dps, tank, & healer CP160 or less

Lf2 any role full clear

This system can please ALL playstyles.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

renne

Thecompton73 wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Again, I will take complaints about fake tanks seriously when the average DPS can do more than 20k in a dungeon. Until then if some uber DPS wants to queue up and make the dungeon go faster I have no issues.

I think a better solution to this would be to actually teach people how to DPS ingame instead of having everyone rely on youtube videos

I think that your assumption that the fake tanks are uber DPS is the wrong one, especially considering you assert that the average DPS can't do more than 20K in the preceding statement. The solution is to teach people how to DPS rather than expect people not to do something that is obviously subverting the system? You forget that many of these people don't even necessarily care about doing more than 20k DPS, or have any interest in listening to some stranger's advice on the DPS role. The last time I suggested that I could help someone with their build, their response was 'F you, this is MY build.'. What I and many other people advocate for is players honoring the roles they sign up for, which is totally reasonable. What you are advocating for is a solution for casual DPS under the false assumption that the only reason they aren't doing more damage is that ZOS hasn't taught them how. Don't worry, the people that want to do good DPS are going to find a way to do it. Casuals make up like 70% of the playerbase.

Your argument is based on "If you sign up as a tank, you need to play the tank role or you're disrespecting your teammates"

My argument is, "If you sign up as a DPS, you need to be able to do enough DPS to get through the content in a reasonable amount of time, or you're disrespecting your teammates"

Do you know why it's so hard to get proper tanks to queue in this game? Because those that actually queue as tanks get stuck with people who can't burn down the boss and give up tanking in frustration. I will never tank a PUG group again for that reason.

For the bolded: I'm sorry, but are you saying that people are doing bad DPS because they want to? And that it would be a bad thing for ZOS to teach people to improve the way they play? Because that's not a great argument when you want to add a system to report people.

I fully respect your right to play a DPS the way you want to, even if it suboptimal. Play the way you want is the motto of the game after all.

But I'll also ask you to respect other players when they want to get the content done faster (or at the very least in a reasonable amount of time)

100% this. Bad DPS never want to admit they're the problem when a run fails and instead try to blame the tank or the healer even when the fail is clearly because they can't meet a DPS check.
I remember getting crazy abuse from a 400 CP DD when they and thier 600 CP DD friend couldn't burn the Spriggan boss in March of Sacrifices before the one shot mechanic. They completely ignored getting the synergy and then standing in the right spot to survive. So not enough DPS to skip the mechanic and not enough sense to do it correctly yet it was my fault somehow. When they kept talking crap I left and queued up for the same dungeon, got good DPS and breezed through.
So it felt good knowing it hadn't been me holding us back but the initial experience still really turned me off to PUGing as a tank. Why put myself out there to be abused by jerks that can't admit their own inadequacies?

I had a dps blow up at me in normal (normal!) Frostvault once when I was "fake" healing* because he kept dying and it was like, my guy, even the best healer in the world couldn't keep you AND everyone else alive when you spend all of your time standing in stupid completely out of the healing range of any skills. This guy standing so far away he's in Deshaan, so yeah no I am not going to heal him. And yet he's the only person I've ever had complain, I usually get compliments because outside of one shots I keep everyone alive AND do damage.

Honestly, it's wild to me there's a one shot mechanic on the Spriggan boss because every time I've done MoS we've been like "what is even the mechanics of this boss?" because it dies so quick.


* I class it as "fake" healing because I'm running dps gear, two infernos and have dps CP, BUT I also run 4 unselfish heals, so I dunno, maybe it's more of a hybrid build.

bmnoble

Very simple isn't it, their rushing to get into the queue for their daily random reward.

Tank has no taunt or never uses it once during the run, healer has no heals and never uses them once during the run, then no random normal reward for that run for them, with an auto generated mail in its place explaining why.

They can detect the amount of heals, damage etc during a battleground should not be much of a stretch to do the same in group dungeons where there are only 4 players at a time to focus on instead of 12.

spartaxoxo

Make people train for their roles, including all the fake dps, and you'd see less fakes imo. Also queueing as a tank should automatically force a taunt on your bar, people could still not use it. But they'd be more likely to use if it was there anyway.

Amottica

Molydeus wrote: »

Vote to kick the faker, and if it doesn't pass leave the group. I refuse to play with fakers and as a "real" healer it doesn't take me long to get a new group going if I bail. I stick to vet dungeons because it weeds out most of the losers who queue for fake roles.

and it seems logical if people vote kicked them often it would go a long way to curb this behavior. It can persist only if the player base permits it.

Kusto

Dps queues would be much longer without fake tanks. Most real tanks never queue for normals because there's simply nothing for them to do there. And alot of tanks also avoid pug vets because group dps is often very low.

Pevey

Amottica wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Vote to kick the faker, and if it doesn't pass leave the group. I refuse to play with fakers and as a "real" healer it doesn't take me long to get a new group going if I bail. I stick to vet dungeons because it weeds out most of the losers who queue for fake roles.

and it seems logical if people vote kicked them often it would go a long way to curb this behavior. It can persist only if the player base permits it.

It actually doesn’t. These are antisocial people. They don’t care what the community thinks of them. You just waste your own time kicking them because they can queue again immediately and will get another group immediately.

jtm1018

If its a normy run, I treat as a 4dps run.

F these role, its a normy run.

Its fun chasing the boss's chasing the other players.

Beats that boring stand in one place and do your routine like an effing automaton doing your routine.

FeedbackOnly

S0Z0H wrote: »

Nothing will change. Even when an actual tank or healer shows up, people will complain that they aren't good enough tanks, or not good enough of a healer. This is just the reality in random dungeons.
Best thing to do is look for players by class in zone chat or in guild chat for ur dungeon runs

No what is new...is people do complain I am healer and not DPS. That's not a good trend

FeedbackOnly

Kusto wrote: »

Dps queues would be much longer without fake tanks. Most real tanks never queue for normals because there's simply nothing for them to do there. And alot of tanks also avoid pug vets because group dps is often very low.

Healers though are different. We can heal and buff...but the problem is DPS can heal better sometimes

Why doesn't twilight give DPS s better heal then healer. This is because healing scales to damage.

DPS are better healers then healers

hundergrn

When versatility is dead and meta pulls all high number dps and no viability... TES can implement strict role policies where certain skills are required to heal or tank. Till then, you have the option to balance your dps, self healing, and survivability. This isn't WoW, this isn't FF14, this isn't a classic mmorpg.

A reputation system would only weed out a few of the worst. The rest will be mixed in with the bad healers and tanks. When they decline due to poor rep the queues will still be long.

Groups can vary greatly and not all will blend well (even in 'proper' roles). You can find groups were all but the healer wipes and you spend the next 25 mins rooting for the pissed off healer soloing a dlc boss with 4-6k dps. You will find groups where the tank is garbage. You will find groups where dps love the floor so much that they'll run from the healer and tank just to have a taste. You will have 'fake' tanks that will never taunt but can still pull and hold the mashpit while flash snipping the few that break away. You will have 'fake' tanks that are paperbags and make the healer want to alt-f4. You will have healers with god complex. Healers who don't heal. Healers who just want to stab things. You will have the one that 'wants to go fast'. You will have a normal group now and then.

Make a few builds for yourself and maybe grab an addon for fast swapping of gear and skills. Your good group 'doing your job the best you can' set, a 'this is sus' balance of dps/selfheal/survivable set, and the 'guess ill be the tank' survival/troll set. There are options.

There is also communication! Give curtesy if your in a dungeon that you are unfamiliar with, if you are new, if you have issues with a part. Fake tanks/healers just say you are faking (if you are good enough) and let the group decide if they want to adjust or let you pretend you are soloing it. Bad fakes... well you have an extra set that will keep you going when they try to burn you and whisper the group to hear their opinion. If a group goes yeet and forgoes rolls and wants a pure dps run, you got that covered too.

If bad tanks/healers get left behind (no rez, kicked, no heal, if they wanna dps let them tank too) they will cry and vent but they will get the idea and youll have one less to worry. The queue is abysmal with pure tank/healer and the wait will be longer, promise. No one likes to tank a dungeon and do nothing. No one likes to tank a hard dungeon and sweat bullets when dps is weak. No one likes to heal those that are stupid. No one likes to heal when a glance is enough to make one lick dirt. A bad healer for a tank is a bad healer. A bad tank give the group pain. 2 DPS licking window panes and noodle slapping pushes there to be 1 less tank and healer each.

TLDR Viability/Versatility vs Structured roles. DPS chasing glass cannons vs survivability. Bad Tank vs Fake Tank. Healer same. Frustration when toxic hits vs chance to find up front with communication. One trick pony vs optional backup plans.