Hargam wrote: »

I think the point is that you can use Kiler's blade with any weapon.

But why would you? If you want an execute that is actually working well as an execute you wouldnt use it, even if "you can". Its like any choice rly, would you drink the dirty water or the clean one, you can drink either, but only one will actually taste good.

Not only is the scaling vastly worse on Killers blade, if you hit someone at 26% hp, if the target just heals 1k dmg just before you hit him, it will do squat for dmg, if you start using Executioner at around 40% hp it doesnt matter if he healed a few %, its still gonna deal tons of dmg compared to what Killers blade would.

Keep in mind that Executioner deals up to 400% increased damage, with the exact amount scaling based on how far belowe 50% hp the target is. From what I can tell the scaling is linear, meaning against a target at 25% hp Executioner deals "only" 200% increased damage compared to Killer Blade's 300%. Oh wait, Killer's Blade needs the target to be below 25%, a target exactly at 25% doesn't take increased damage; only from 24% onwards. But the point still stands that Executioner doesn't reach the same 300% increase until the target is down to 12,5% of their max hp.

In the end both have their pros and cons. Executioner is more reliable since it doesn't screw you over if the target's hp is slightly higher than intended, and the maximum damage against a very low-health target is higher. but Killer's Blade reaches it's full potency much soon and gives some passive crit chance just for being slotted, not to mention being usable with any weapon and even having a ranged morph that's also usable by magicka builds.

Same with Turn Evil vs Mass Hysteria.

NB has many trash-tier skills like that. They are either completely useless, or out-matched by non-class skills (weapon, armour, world, guild etc).

Most of those "things" come from Elsweyr update. Necromancer class was introduced back then. New class had to sell well, so ZOS pretty much nerfed the **** out of the NB. It did not mattered if skill were strong or not - Necro was a similarly themed class, so it had to be better than NB in every aspect... and it was/is. Sure, NB since then received some buffs here & there - but those were mostly QOL & standardisation changes. Too little and too few and far between to make class good again. Class has never recovered after Elsweyr update.

Sure, NB has some decent or good skills, but it is maybe 2 - 4 class abilities out of the entire class toolkit. And the "good" NB skills (imho: Cloak, Death Stroke,Veiled Strike and Soul Shred) are very situational and not "obviously the best" when compared to alternatives.

Hargam wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Hargam wrote: »

I think the point is that you can use Kiler's blade with any weapon.

But why would you? If you want an execute that is actually working well as an execute you wouldnt use it, even if "you can". Its like any choice rly, would you drink the dirty water or the clean one, you can drink either, but only one will actually taste good.

Not only is the scaling vastly worse on Killers blade, if you hit someone at 26% hp, if the target just heals 1k dmg just before you hit him, it will do squat for dmg, if you start using Executioner at around 40% hp it doesnt matter if he healed a few %, its still gonna deal tons of dmg compared to what Killers blade would.

The both skills are fine. I think you just missing the point. Execute scalles up to 400% which means it deals 400% more damage to target at 0%HP (it worth to use it ~ at 30%HP) where the Killer's blade deals 300% right after 25%HP.
Killer's blade just need a better timing. And it gives you the option to use it with any weapon.

Both posts are good points. The semantics in the description of the executioner makes all the difference.

I don't think that I've seen Killer's Blade on a death recap in PvP in like over a year. Or more.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the skill.

From a PVE perspective I would disagree as both are quite viable and one could actually make a case that the immediate speed up of killers blade would out weigh the total damage eclipse at very low health for executioner. Even more so for targets with small health pools as they won't be at the lower value long enough. As Necrotech_master pointed out I think it would make a lot more sense to consider using the mag morph for reliability but even then that depends on if you can sustain for the whole execute.

Now if the OP is referring to PVP I would agree that killers blade is less reliable but that's due to an entire set of reasons not just because of total damage potential. As stated before by total damage I'm pretty sure killers blade is stronger but players introduce other variables such as the ability to reactively heal or evade damage. Because of that the utility of executioner is more reliable simply because the range at which you get more damage than any other skill cast is much larger but that's not because killer blade is weak. It's just harder to predict. The best executes in pvp last I knew were mages wrath for sorcs and templar beam (that may have changed I haven't pvped in awhile). Templar beam much like executioner has that larger range of high damage and the sorc execute let's you cast preemptively then push the target to the low health required for the burst (utility). Again these are not necessarily better than killers blade by the numbers but are instead more reliable in a PvP situation and with limited bar slots are just higher desirability much like executioner.

Yeah the lack of range this morph has with no real benefit the heal isn't really useful at all it would be better off with a higher scaling execute % perhaps

Brrrofski wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Talonlord wrote: »

Keep in mind that Executioner deals up to 400% increased damage, with the exact amount scaling based on how far belowe 50% hp the target is. From what I can tell the scaling is linear, meaning against a target at 25% hp Executioner deals "only" 200% increased damage compared to Killer Blade's 300%. Oh wait, Killer's Blade needs the target to be below 25%, a target exactly at 25% doesn't take increased damage; only from 24% onwards. But the point still stands that Executioner doesn't reach the same 300% increase until the target is down to 12,5% of their max hp.

In the end both have their pros and cons. Executioner is more reliable since it doesn't screw you over if the target's hp is slightly higher than intended, and the maximum damage against a very low-health target is higher. but Killer's Blade reaches it's full potency much soon and gives some passive crit chance just for being slotted, not to mention being usable with any weapon and even having a ranged morph that's also usable by magicka builds.

Did you ever actually used both of those skills in PvP? Both killers blade and impale are trash skills, wonder why almost nobody use them? It's because PvP is not PvE, math is not the most important here, it's the utility and reliability. When I go for killing combo in PvP right after opener - HA+Incap+Med+Surprise I can start to spam executioner and if my enemy won't react fast enough by dodge or block heal he will be dead, because I can't go wrong with executioner as long as my enemy HP is below around 35-40% it will deal almost the same damage as my spamable not allowing for execute range escape.

With killers blade I need to drop my target below 25% and if I'll calculate it wrong - my hit will get blocked or it won't be crit, or some damage reduction kicks in, or hot ticks my GCD will be wasted because it would be better to use surprise attack.

Even though executioner at 24% may deal slightly lower damage, it's far more reliable tool to keep up the pressure. There is a reason nobody uses killers blade. You could see impale from time to time since it was the only execute magblade ever had but now it would be better to use executioner, though melee magblade is just a shadow of past glory right now and you won't see that soon.

This is the main reason killer's blade loses out.

If my enemy gets a heal off and jump to 26% health, killer's blade is useless and I wasted a skill. Meanwhile, it makes no difference with executioner. It's still going to hit hard and is worth casting.

Yea, basicly the essence of why killers blade is not used, and executioner is in pvp

Ranged version loses to JBeam and melee... just loses.

Melee version would be cool if it was undodgeable and unblockable. Yes you need to time it still, but now it pays off.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

with hybridization in effect, i could see killers blade being even less useful now that you can use the ranged mag morph on a stam toon

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm thinking of years of patch notes at this point, but ranged projectiles have a minimum travel time of around 200-300ms, so even if you're in melee range, it's incredibly easy to dodge.

So I would say the choice is a little more nuanced than what it intially appears to be.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

with hybridization in effect, i could see killers blade being even less useful now that you can use the ranged mag morph on a stam toon

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm thinking of years of patch notes at this point, but ranged projectiles have a minimum travel time of around 200-300ms, so even if you're in melee range, it's incredibly easy to dodge.

So I would say the choice is a little more nuanced than what it intially appears to be.

probably, im just looking at the utility of it being ranged (at least 36 meter in cyrodiil)

i think i would get use out of this using it in a combo of meteor + assassins scourge + ranged execute if the previous 2 skills failed to do the job but they were close to death

if they dont block the meteor, and were even moderately squishy, that would almost straight up kill them because they would still be caught in the knock up animation of the meteor