Oakensoul ring should not be allowed to function on werewolves

React · April 2022

Yarcanine wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yarcanine wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

They don't negate the penalty, it's a penalty they already have.

This is very wrong. Werewolf has been entirely balanced around having one bar that is as strong as two; if you examine the damage and healing coefficients of the skills they drastically outperform regular skills, not to mention they are all heavily stacked to offer important buffs on top of these extremely high coefficients.

The werewolf bar is no where near as strong as 2. You get 3 major buffs, savagery, brutality, and resolve. Easily accessed on all classes. Most skills in this game do more than one thing so not sure where youre going with this.

But let's look at the skills themselves

They have a gapcloser that has a dot tied to it which has up to 450% execute scaling starting from 100% hp. Then the morphs allow for either bonus WD/SD on hit (100 per target) or mag/stam return and transformation extension on hit.

They have one of the strongest burst heals in the game which scales with max health. Casting this at full hp gives you 3k stamina back, a choice of either bonus stam regen or major berserk on full hp cast, AND you get major brutality just for having it on your bar.

You have an AOE HARD CC, which ALSO sets everyone off balance AND gives major savagery just for being slotted. The better morph of this skill also applies AOE major breach & minor maim to every target hit.

Howl of agony is one of the strongest single target spammables in the game, has a 10m range, with a 25% damage modifier just for your target facing you or being CCd. 25% is massive - the equivalent of major + minor berserk AND major + minor vulnerability combined (because of the way berserk scaling vs vuln scaling works in terms of order is calculations).

Finally, you get an AOE disease damage spammable/10 second dot that also applies minor defile every cast, with the morph options being additional MAJOR defile or healing for 100% of any damage the ability does.

"Where he was going" was to point out the fact that the skills are already designed to be loaded with more effects than 95% of the normal abilities in the game. The scaling on the numbers themselves reflects this too. This is done because of the one bar limitation, which again is the drawback you are accepting in exchange for the ridiculously strong passives from my previous comment and the ridiculously strong abilities from this comment. Giving these builds access to a mythic as stat dense as an entire 5/5/2 build will make them insanely overpowered.

So many people in this thread are claiming that WW isn't good, or that it isn't effective enough and needs something like this ring. Just read the passives, and read the abilities. Literally nothing in the game is as overloaded as WW is (apart from maybe the live version of magDK, with broken combustion/burning embers/molten whip/corrosive/free ash cloud and mist form).

You just described what the abilities do, congrats. Means very little unless you compare it to how other spec's abilities stack up. There are abilities in ESO that do 3-4 things, its not exclusive to werewolf. I've addressed some of the specific WW abilities in my previous comment. My point is not that WW abilities are bad, but they are no where near overpowered.

I wouldn't recommend running something like this because there are simply better ways to build a StamCro, but its more to prove a point. Here is a build that can do everything a werewolf can do but better and more

+ Crit/Stam/Immovable or Health pot
Has access to every buff, debuff, disable, ability that WW does but also has access to a proper execute, delayed burst damage, a burst heal and a HoT, Major Evasion, snare/immobilize removal, all the class/guild passives AND weapon passives, 2 Ultimates, does more damage, and can still run a 5/5/2/1/1 gear set up. You can do this on virtually every class

Werewolf is simply a meme spec

None of these abilities compare to their WW "counterparts" you're trying to use to prove your point.

Rally is only a comparable heal to hiricines once every 15+ seconds. Hiricines is an on demand health scaling burst with passive brutality just for being slotted and a stam return component to boot.

Stampede just had it's damage nerfed, and applies a ground dot - pounce is a 100% health scaling execute target applied dot (there are very few things that execute from 100% hp) with an additional morph effect tied to it.

You're talking about memes, but dswing is a meme. Easily one of the worst single target spammable in the game with a trash OB stun mechanic tied to it and a channel time, aswell as a terrible way to apply off balance when compared to roar. Howl is 10 times the spammable that dswing is.

Turn evil is a terrible CC. Takes a GCD and costs an absurd amount of stamina with no additional effects- almost useless in the current pvp meta. Roar however applies OB (which can boost damage by 10% via exploiter next patch) as well as maim and MAJOR BREACH, in an AOE up to 6 people.

Delayed burst is great in pvp, sure. BB is one of the better delayed bursts in the game, as well as that self synergy ability. But pressure is a valuable tool aswell, and is something the spec you linked lacks without recasting BB every 3 seconds - which you simply cannot do outside of a 1v1. WW somewhat makes up for the lack of a delayed burst by having multiple dots, both defiled, and a hard hitting, 0 cast time ranged spammable.

The armor buff is a skill to manage and drain resources, WW gets resolve for free.

Crit immoveabales aren't bad, but again WW gets savagery for free and can use any potion to boot.

Snare removal without expedition does very little for your ability to kite. WW gets 30% base movespeed, and from experience I can tell you that they're able to sprint away from the majority of things with ease.

Sure the toolkit is limited in a few ways, but it compensates with the sheer power of their available abilities. Saying that WW is a meme is just a lie.

Marcus_Thracius · April 2022

why does it feel like every dlc they add some op/half broken item thats locked behind a paywall , then nerf it after ppl buy the said dlc ..............

Khold90 · April 2022

This mythic is peak "PvE and PvP should be balanced separately".

I don't PvP, I was looking forward to using this mythic on my PvE werewolf and pet sorc only to see an ocean of "nerf this because of PvP".

IncultaWolf · April 2022

Skoomah wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Title. WW can use this with no drawbacks, and it will be extremely broken. WW is strong enough as is - this mythic will push them way too far into the overpowered zone.

Perhaps an argument could be made if WW was a timed ult like every other transformation in the game, but the current iteration of WW allows for them to remain in the form indefinitely.

Please disable this mythic in WW form.

This thread is extremely toxic. Werewolves repeatedly get threads against us as a sub class. I'm not even going to go into the drawbacks and actual mediocre experience in pvp at high level play. It's a broken record at this point.

So werewolves aren't allowed to enjoy specific sets in the game anymore???

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Gilliam

This mythic is obviously busted right now, everyone on the pts are dueling on unkillable werewolves, even you should know that it won't make it to the live server like this, thankfully everyone is talking about "the werewolf ring" so it'll get the nerf it deserves. You could cut all the stats in half right now and people would still use it, it just needs to NOT work for werewolves, they're pretty balanced currently and I have no issue playing mine in high mmr pvp

LordeGian · April 2022

I would certainly not introduce this mythic in any build, giving up a bar is giving up a lot, more things than this mythic can provide. Now on my werewolf I will definitely use it.

coop500 · April 2022

Khold90 wrote: »

This mythic is peak "PvE and PvP should be balanced separately".

I don't PvP, I was looking forward to using this mythic on my PvE werewolf and pet sorc only to see an ocean of "nerf this because of PvP".

Exactly, it's depressing cause I really want this in PVE but I couldn't care less about taking it into PVP.

Please ZOS, just disable it in PVP, don't ruin a fun thing for us.

ealdwin · April 2022

coop500 wrote: »

Khold90 wrote: »

This mythic is peak "PvE and PvP should be balanced separately".

I don't PvP, I was looking forward to using this mythic on my PvE werewolf and pet sorc only to see an ocean of "nerf this because of PvP".

Exactly, it's depressing cause I really want this in PVE but I couldn't care less about taking it into PVP.

Please ZOS, just disable it in PVP, don't ruin a fun thing for us.

All it would take is a caveat:

These values are decreased by 50% when under the effects of Battle Spirit

-or-

These values are decreased by 50% when transformed

There. Everyone who isn't a PVP and/or Werewolf could keep this actually fun and interesting new toy, and PVP can perhaps maintain what little remains of its semblance of balance.

divnyi · April 2022

I vote for disabling it for WWs just because mythics are there to create UNIQUE gameplay.
WW gameplay is not unique.
We all know very well that it will be meta gameplay for this mythic if it's not disabled.
Lastly, this mythic will be nerfed to tone down WW builds.

One bar on non-WW is never gonna be broken. Imagine having 5 less bar slots and no backbar set, this is actually huge. No need to disable it in PvP, it is fun item.

But WW interaction needs to be removed, period.

Skoomah · April 2022

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Title. WW can use this with no drawbacks, and it will be extremely broken. WW is strong enough as is - this mythic will push them way too far into the overpowered zone.

Perhaps an argument could be made if WW was a timed ult like every other transformation in the game, but the current iteration of WW allows for them to remain in the form indefinitely.

Please disable this mythic in WW form.

This thread is extremely toxic. Werewolves repeatedly get threads against us as a sub class. I'm not even going to go into the drawbacks and actual mediocre experience in pvp at high level play. It's a broken record at this point.

So werewolves aren't allowed to enjoy specific sets in the game anymore???

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Gilliam

This mythic is obviously busted right now, everyone on the pts are dueling on unkillable werewolves, even you should know that it won't make it to the live server like this, thankfully everyone is talking about "the werewolf ring" so it'll get the nerf it deserves. You could cut all the stats in half right now and people would still use it, it just needs to NOT work for werewolves, they're pretty balanced currently and I have no issue playing mine in high mmr pvp

Good to see you back playing the game. [snip]

[edited for naming and shaming]

Jaraal · April 2022

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

why does it feel like every dlc they add some op/half broken item thats locked behind a paywall , then nerf it after ppl buy the said dlc ..............

You’re catching on! It’s SOP.

IncultaWolf · April 2022

Skoomah wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Title. WW can use this with no drawbacks, and it will be extremely broken. WW is strong enough as is - this mythic will push them way too far into the overpowered zone.

Perhaps an argument could be made if WW was a timed ult like every other transformation in the game, but the current iteration of WW allows for them to remain in the form indefinitely.

Please disable this mythic in WW form.

This thread is extremely toxic. Werewolves repeatedly get threads against us as a sub class. I'm not even going to go into the drawbacks and actual mediocre experience in pvp at high level play. It's a broken record at this point.

So werewolves aren't allowed to enjoy specific sets in the game anymore???

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Gilliam

This mythic is obviously busted right now, everyone on the pts are dueling on unkillable werewolves, even you should know that it won't make it to the live server like this, thankfully everyone is talking about "the werewolf ring" so it'll get the nerf it deserves. You could cut all the stats in half right now and people would still use it, it just needs to NOT work for werewolves, they're pretty balanced currently and I have no issue playing mine in high mmr pvp

Good to see you back playing the game. [snip]

I have multiple accounts and I also play on PlayStation and Xbox

Grizzbeorn · April 2022

Liam12548 wrote: »

I guess I should make the distinction that I'm looking at this from a purely pvp perspective.

So make it inoperable in PvP/BGs.

I get so sick of PvE getting nerfed simply because of PvP issues.

belial5221_ESO · April 2022

Like in another post I tested it.Oakensoul only gives a bit more resources and regen in PVP,light/heavy attacks are a bit more powerful,but skills are less powerful than with malcath.Malcath gives about 1k more damage to ww skills than oakensoul on my tests.So unless you tried WW with oakensould in PVP on pts,don't jsut make assumptions.There's way more OP setups than WW where oakensoul will become OP.

React · April 2022

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Like in another post I tested it.Oakensoul only gives a bit more resources and regen in PVP,light/heavy attacks are a bit more powerful,but skills are less powerful than with malcath.Malcath gives about 1k more damage to ww skills than oakensoul on my tests.So unless you tried WW with oakensould in PVP on pts,don't jsut make assumptions.There's way more OP setups than WW where oakensoul will become OP.

We can sign onto the pts anytime this weekend and I can show you a WW build with oakensoul that has 40k hp, unlimited stam and mag sustain, cap resistance (+10% flat mitigation), and will hit a target with 32k resistances/3250 crit resist for 8k howls consistently.

You straight up do not know what you're doing with your build if you do not understand why this ring makes werewolf broken.

Jaraal · April 2022

Surely people don't think ZOS "forgot" about werewolf when designing this mythic? They know exactly how it would work for ww. I agree with the other poster that ZOS always releases something overpowered to sell chapters, and then nerfs it later. And who knows? Maybe they are aware of how few people actually play the class since the last round of doggo nerfs, and are looking to rejuvinate interest.

Fizzyapple · April 2022

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Like in another post I tested it.Oakensoul only gives a bit more resources and regen in PVP,light/heavy attacks are a bit more powerful,but skills are less powerful than with malcath.Malcath gives about 1k more damage to ww skills than oakensoul on my tests.So unless you tried WW with oakensould in PVP on pts,don't jsut make assumptions.There's way more OP setups than WW where oakensoul will become OP.

I've tested it too its not that bad. Not as bad as its being made out to be anyway. Kind of dramatic. Its not going to go live the way it is and it's surprising to me that people think it will. Shakespearians the lot of you. Anyway, when I see a WW in bgs I know that's one less opponent I need to think about so it might be a nice change to have them back in the game.

Cast_El · April 2022

This set will completely broke PvP!! We will see were wolf and pet sorcerer everywhere. Real pb is were wolf they will be so overpowered!
And one other thing : ball group, every members will use it.

Drop this mythic. Or do massive changes on it. You didn't think about PvP consequence's enough

Psiion · April 2022

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