Oakensoul ring should not be allowed to function on werewolves

React

Title. WW can use this with no drawbacks, and it will be extremely broken. WW is strong enough as is - this mythic will push them way too far into the overpowered zone.

Perhaps an argument could be made if WW was a timed ult like every other transformation in the game, but the current iteration of WW allows for them to remain in the form indefinitely.

Please disable this mythic in WW form.

merpins

To be fair, this mythic is on par with how strong Gaze of Sithis was when it was announced. And there are many really competent 1-bar setups that this mythic alone will give giant buffs to. It's going to get nerfed so hard that no one is going to want to run it, so you probably don't need to worry about it being on ww. Probably.

Wuuffyy

This mythic was made for werewolves.

merpins

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

This mythic was made for werewolves.

1-bar builds are pretty popular. It's probably designed for them. But WW is a strong secondary reason for this mythic to exist. It's bound to get nerfed though.

Arunei

Or maybe let it work for WWs since they're stuck on one bar and have other drawbacks? The people who run WW and pull endgame damage are going to be a small number, so instead of continuously asking for things that only 1% of the population will become OP by using, let the majority of others have something fun.

That and as was already said it'll probably end up nerfed well before it hits live.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

This mythic was made for werewolves.

1-bar builds are pretty popular. It's probably designed for them. But WW is a strong secondary reason for this mythic to exist. It's bound to get nerfed though.

How do 1 bar builds even work? how do you fit your heals, your DOTs, your spammable and your buffs on a single bar?

Tommy_The_Gun

I doubt this mythic will hit live servers in its current state. Just comparing it to Gaze of Sithis... Well, Oakensoul is flat out better in pretty much every way. Gaze had like what, 10K Armour or something when they 1st introduced it on PTS.

And you know what ? People back then were like: "Stop ! We can not allow roly-poly NBs to have 10K armour.

I would not be worried about WW using this. I would be more worried about ball groups or one-shot builds that this mythic will allow. WW will be the least of the problem here.

On the good side of things... it is not a proc set. Instead it is a very strong stat-buffing set. Which is something that I would like to see more.

MentalxHammer

100% agree, this is a blatant way to get around the drawback, which should not exist.

Langeston

Here is an artist's conception of what Cyrodiil, IC, and BG spawn points will look like next patch:

merpins

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

This mythic was made for werewolves.

1-bar builds are pretty popular. It's probably designed for them. But WW is a strong secondary reason for this mythic to exist. It's bound to get nerfed though.

How do 1 bar builds even work? how do you fit your heals, your DOTs, your spammable and your buffs on a single bar?

Have you ever played a Warden or a Templar? Most classes CAN make a 1-bar build, but they're not great. But you can make competent 1-bar wardens or templars.

casparian

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

This mythic was made for werewolves.

1-bar builds are pretty popular. It's probably designed for them. But WW is a strong secondary reason for this mythic to exist. It's bound to get nerfed though.

How do 1 bar builds even work? how do you fit your heals, your DOTs, your spammable and your buffs on a single bar?

Have you ever played a Warden or a Templar? Most classes CAN make a 1-bar build, but they're not great. But you can make competent 1-bar wardens or templars.

1-bar magsorc and magDK are also classics. Heavy attacking everything to death leaves plenty of room for damage, buffs, shields, and heals on your bar.

React

I guess I should make the distinction that I'm looking at this from a purely pvp perspective.

In pvp, this set covers 100% of the regen a WW will need for both stats by itself, without even considering a single other stat on the ring.

Any semi-competent player can play a WW on live that is already unkillable in a 1v1/1v2 scenario. This mythic is going to make that so much worse - because now they won't need to build for any sustain, and they'll be getting a massive boost to damage/mit/health on top of that from a one piece without suffering from the intended drawback. Keep in mind they can still fit two 5 piece sets and a one piece monster or trainee on top of this mythic, or a 5 piece + monster set + 3 piece + 1 trainee. The stats you will be able to reach are absurd, and the WW toolkit is absurd.

Should not be useable on a WW, or WW should actually be limited to a timer like every other transformation ult (or have a max time the transformation can be extended too via passives, e.g 1 minute).

I'm not really worried about the "one shot" builds in pvp, because no actual pvp build is going to use just one bar. Maybe some gank builds will pop up with it. As far as ball groups go, if one is present the game already is unplayable anyways, so that shouldn't particularly concern anyone that plays the game for the combat.

Dagoth_Rac

I think you could make an argument that Oakensoul should only be active in situations where you could bar swap. That's the downside. You get stats but lose ability to bar swap. If you are not losing ability to bar swap, no Oakensoul.

Kory

Need to see an actual build with this mythic on, and see it in action in actual pvp in Cyrodil, IC, and Bgs, because some people just have a personal grudge against WWs as opposed to anyother build or class they struggle against....

React

Kory wrote: »

Need to see an actual build with this mythic on, and see it in action in actual pvp in Cyrodil, IC, and Bgs, because some people just have a personal grudge against WWs as opposed to anyother build or class they struggle against....

I mean, if you've played pvp in the past year at all and encountered any half decent player on a werewolf, you shouldn't need to "see this build in action" to understand why it is broken.

Anyhow, you can sign on to the PTS during prime hours and go over to the main high isle shrine. I've seen and dueled several people using this on wolves now, and can confirm that it is busted.

VaranisArano

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

This mythic was made for werewolves.

1-bar builds are pretty popular. It's probably designed for them. But WW is a strong secondary reason for this mythic to exist. It's bound to get nerfed though.

How do 1 bar builds even work? how do you fit your heals, your DOTs, your spammable and your buffs on a single bar?

Mag Pet Sorcs. Sure, it might not pull the most amazing numbers ever, but it's quite capable of clearing Vet solo arenas.

Kory

Liam12548 wrote: »

Kory wrote: »

Need to see an actual build with this mythic on, and see it in action in actual pvp in Cyrodil, IC, and Bgs, because some people just have a personal grudge against WWs as opposed to anyother build or class they struggle against....

I mean, if you've played pvp in the past year at all and encountered any half decent player on a werewolf, you shouldn't need to "see this build in action" to understand why it is broken.

Anyhow, you can sign on to the PTS during prime hours and go over to the main high isle shrine. I've seen and dueled several people using this on wolves now, and can confirm that it is busted.

A bit of gaslighting there brother, telling me what should be based on my experience, but I never had a problem battling Werewolves. More so with Dragonknights and Templars and that's fine to me.

Currently downloading the PTS server.

karekiz

Double the stats please and add crit damage to it.

Ryuvain

Kory wrote: »

Need to see an actual build with this mythic on, and see it in action in actual pvp in Cyrodil, IC, and Bgs, because some people just have a personal grudge against WWs as opposed to anyother build or class they struggle against....

Seriously. Werewolves have it bad on the forums. Not many werewolves are ever a problem in pvp, maybe thats just me?
They can't streak away, spam cloak, poke me with jabs, stunlock me to death with fossilize, become immune to roots/snares, hit me with an ulti dump, snipe me to death, etc...

I just think they actually need a minor buff instead of being flat out hated for little reason. This mythic should be enough tbh. Testing would be nice to actually see, but the stats don't seem that crazy.

alberichtano

Langeston wrote: »

Here is an artist's conception of what Cyrodiil, IC, and BG spawn points will look like next patch:

Cry Havocrel, and let slip the fluffies of war!

alberichtano

Ryuvain wrote: »

Kory wrote: »

Need to see an actual build with this mythic on, and see it in action in actual pvp in Cyrodil, IC, and Bgs, because some people just have a personal grudge against WWs as opposed to anyother build or class they struggle against....

Seriously. Werewolves have it bad on the forums. Not many werewolves are ever a problem in pvp, maybe thats just me?
They can't streak away, spam cloak, poke me with jabs, stunlock me to death with fossilize, become immune to roots/snares, hit me with an ulti dump, snipe me to death, etc...

I just think they actually need a minor buff instead of being flat out hated for little reason. This mythic should be enough tbh. Testing would be nice to actually see, but the stats don't seem that crazy.

Agreed. My Peter Puppy rarely lets her inner beast out, as she just gets killed even faster than normal in fluffy form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVjvPSoOeoc

acastanza_ESO

WW's in PVP are pretty strong as-is, not super OP or anything, but definitely strong enough that they do not need a buff. This would be an *insane* buff if allowed to function on them. Strong agree that it should only function in cases where you actually could normally bar-swap otherwise it's all the payoff with none of the cost.

RandomKodiak

Kory wrote: »

Need to see an actual build with this mythic on, and see it in action in actual pvp in Cyrodil, IC, and Bgs, because some people just have a personal grudge against WWs as opposed to anyother build or class they struggle against....

That's a Stamsorc wearing Tzogvin's, Rele, 1pc Slimecraw and Oakensoul on a 21 mil trial dummy. Not overpowered at all in current meta for PvE but then go WW in PvP and that would be insane. Sorry for no info tab CMX is not letting any other tab show but damage is at least close as a 90k parse comes in just under 4min.

December7854

Just look at the proposed bonuses... Its got better stats than multiple 5 pieces/mythics (New Moon, Fortified Brass, Amberplasm, Leviathon, a fully proc'ed death dealer's fete).

Let's just leave alone the idea of if this goes live, but how does this even get introduced in its current state?

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I have a feeling that either I or some people here are playing different game. "WW is strong" or "WW is in a good spot" - that is awesome, everyone can have their own opinion. No problem. But still, I would like to know where are those informations coming from ? Is it based on your personal experience ? Or maybe some discussion you had with your friends on discord / reddit / in game ?

You see, if indeed WW was (as some people claim) in a decent spot, it would be used more often, right ? Meanwhile, outside of some very rare cases of solo randoms in Cyro in a "zerg-surfing" mode... I don't see WWs at all. Even in BGs, at higher MM.

WW may look good "on paper" if you are reading skills description. But once you play for a bit, you will know immediately that it has flaws that pretty much disqualify it from a competitive gameplay. Every one who played WW knows this.

There were plenty of WW Content creators in ESO (PvE & PvP). Nowadays pretty much everyone I know of is either gone (quit the game) or switched to different thing (different class / spec). Also, here is a specific ZOS-made official WW feedback thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416461/class-rep-werewolf-feedback-thread/p1

I bet no one even knew or remembered it. You see the date of the last post ? It is 2020, almost 2 years ago...
It is because people simply don't play WW. It is a very niche thing. People know it is in eso, but despite having so many cool things... no one who wants to remain competitive is using it. WW is pretty much only used for rp, fun & lols, not for actual combat effectiveness.

Now, if WW was not be allowed to use this super new mythic (that is going to get nerfed anyway), just because WW can by-pass the penalty of having just one bar... then I guess we should remain consequential & consistent and not allow to use it on other one-bar builds.

You see, if a build is made from the ground up to use only one bar, to eliminate bar swapping - then it also won't feel the penalty, right ? There are builds out there (like mentioned pet sorc) that can have bar swap key un-mapped. It simply doesn't care. It is optimized for one bar. Also it is worth mentioning that non-ww one bar optimized setup actually perform better than WW, as it is more flexible and specialised. It doesn't have flaws that WW transformation forces on you. Also, aside from that it is worth mentioning that your typical 1 bar setup will have an ultimate. WW 1-bar build won't have it. This is kinda huge drawback, as (big spoiler) - you are not always in WW form, and sometimes transforming in a wrong place in a wrong time or staying in WW form at the wrong time = dead.

Tldr: I think that the general OP's idea has some serious issues. Making a build in eso is an art of compromises. If I am making a build, I am trying to make some things stronger than others. If I am able to use Gaze of Sithis on a rolly-polly NB and by-pass the block mitigation penalty by simply "not blocking" - should all roll-dodge build be prohibited from using Gaze of Sithis ? If I am able to use Iron blood set, but I can get away with it because I use speed buffs on a sorc + streak - then applying OP's logic would mean that I should not be able to use iron blood set on a build that is too fast, because those build can by-pass the kiss-curse effect...

December7854

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I have a feeling that either I or some people here are playing different game. "WW is strong" or "WW is in a good spot" - that is awesome, everyone can have their own opinion. No problem. But still, I would like to know where are those informations coming from ? Is it based on your personal experience ? Or maybe some discussion you had with your friends on discord / reddit / in game ?

You see, if indeed WW was (as some people claim) in a decent spot, it would be used more often, right ? Meanwhile, outside of some very rare cases of solo randoms in Cyro in a "zerg-surfing" mode... I don't see WWs at all. Even in BGs, at higher MM.

WW may look good "on paper" if you are reading skills description. But once you play for a bit, you will know immediately that it has flaws that pretty much disqualify it from a competitive gameplay. Every one who played WW knows this.

There were plenty of WW Content creators in ESO (PvE & PvP). Nowadays pretty much everyone I know of is either gone (quit the game) or switched to different thing (different class / spec). Also, here is a specific ZOS-made official WW feedback thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416461/class-rep-werewolf-feedback-thread/p1

I bet no one even knew or remembered it. You see the date of the last post ? It is 2020, almost 2 years ago...
It is because people simply don't play WW. It is a very niche thing. People know it is in eso, but despite having so many cool things... no one who wants to remain competitive is using it. WW is pretty much only used for rp, fun & lols, not for actual combat effectiveness.

Now, if WW was not be allowed to use this super new mythic (that is going to get nerfed anyway), just because WW can by-pass the penalty of having just one bar... then I guess we should remain consequential & consistent and not allow to use it on other one-bar builds.

You see, if a build is made from the ground up to use only one bar, to eliminate bar swapping - then it also won't feel the penalty, right ? There are builds out there (like mentioned pet sorc) that can have bar swap key un-mapped. It simply doesn't care. It is optimized for one bar. Also it is worth mentioning that non-ww one bar optimized setup actually perform better than WW, as it is more flexible and specialised. It doesn't have flaws that WW transformation forces on you. Also, aside from that it is worth mentioning that your typical 1 bar setup will have an ultimate. WW 1-bar build won't have it. This is kinda huge drawback, as (big spoiler) - you are not always in WW form, and sometimes transforming in a wrong place in a wrong time or staying in WW form at the wrong time = dead.

Tldr: I think that the general OP's idea has some serious issues. Making a build in eso is an art of compromises. If I am making a build, I am trying to make some things stronger than others. If I am able to use Gaze of Sithis on a rolly-polly NB and by-pass the block mitigation penalty by simply "not blocking" - should all roll-dodge build be prohibited from using Gaze of Sithis ? If I am able to use Iron blood set, but I can get away with it because I use speed buffs on a sorc + streak - then applying OP's logic would mean that I should not be able to use iron blood set on a build that is too fast, because those build can by-pass the kiss-curse effect...

That isn't my concern at all. Its better than multiple mythics combined. Better than many 5pc set bonuses combined (pre-nerf in most cases)

If the draw back is only being able to use one bar, then the bonus should be the value of 5pc and a mythic, not 5 5pc/mythics.

RandomKodiak

It is not better than a 2bar build no matter how many mythics, 5piece bonuses people want to say, in PvE. No one is going to get the 120-130k numbers on a one bar build that we have from the top players. In PvP this is going to be cancer on any number of builds not just WW. The problem I see is that for people with certain disabilities this could really help level the playing field a good bit in PvE and by calling to nerf the Mythic I think we will be denying a good few people the chance to get involved in more that they can't do now. I say just ban it from PvP for everyone then it is not an issue. If ZoS tries to balance it for both they will ruin the best accessibility item they have ever created and I think that would be a shame.

Halcyon_Kismet

There is no doubt that the item is strong, but it won't break Werewolves and will do little to help close the gap.

As somebody who has played WWs as their primary DPS until very recently, they are extremely underwhelming compared to every other class as a DPS. In their current state they are about 20 - 30k behind every other class if both classes were played by an equally skilled player. While this mythic is good, its not going to close that sort of gap. This also doesn't factor in the janky food meter which makes doing Trials a pain in the horker.

For PVP, WW's are still vastly outclassed by skilled players. From my experience and observations, most of the top builds have the ability to be defensive on one bar and capitalize on mistakes by switching to an offensive bar. Werewolves are forced to choose between all offensive which gets them shredded vs any competent player, or defensive which makes them difficult to kill at the cost of hitting like a wet noodle.

Back to the topic at hand, the mythic itself. It gives a very much needed helping hand to players that struggle with bar swapping and helps a "class" which has been neglected for ages. The defensive stat lines like the health and armor are a bit questionable imo, but despite that, a 1 bar build or a Werewolf in their current state have a chance in Oblivion at outshining the other classes with players of the same skill level.

dinokstrunz

Can we wait until tests have been done before jumping to "omg WW is gonna be unkillable this cannot go live". Werewolf is free AP on live servers and really mediocre so again lets wait until we see what this looks like in the hands of experienced werewolf players.

vgabor

RandomKodiak wrote: »

It is not better than a 2bar build no matter how many mythics, 5piece bonuses people want to say, in PvE. No one is going to get the 120-130k numbers on a one bar build that we have from the top players. In PvP this is going to be cancer on any number of builds not just WW. The problem I see is that for people with certain disabilities this could really help level the playing field a good bit in PvE and by calling to nerf the Mythic I think we will be denying a good few people the chance to get involved in more that they can't do now. I say just ban it from PvP for everyone then it is not an issue. If ZoS tries to balance it for both they will ruin the best accessibility item they have ever created and I think that would be a shame.

^^ This. It' a very good item to help people with disabilities who cannot use the standard light attack 2 bar build, and even in PvE even on WW not causing balance problems (actually it may help WWs in PvE content to be more viable, because right now WW is PvE is more of a roleplay/meme build), so I think the item in PvE would be fine.

The problem is PvP, it's just too much stat density there and I agree with the above it should be balanced for PvP without affecting it's PvE capabilities. Maybe adding that the battle spirit applies to it so the bonus it and making all the bonuses it gives be about half in PvP?

Ascarl

Better halve the values on werwolf rather that nerfing this set. I really like this set as it offers a different playstyle than the vanilla meta.