You queue as fake tank? Slot inner fire and taunt.
You queue as fake healer? Slot a heal and heal.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Iselin wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

[snip]

Because I've been called fake tank even when wearing Warden/Yolna/Alkosh simply by wanting to speedrun or combine 3 trash pulls in one.

[snip]

[snip]

See my edit to the post you replied to. It's all about respecting others... or not.

Al it takes is a few seconds of typing.

As to your example of doing it as a duo, you're not pugging so you do whatever you BOTH want to do.

If you have a requirement, you just need to speak up and ask. Noone is going to hold your hand and ask for your permission first. Sure people may still decide to not help you, but at least you made an effort. The standard RND is a speedrun with several DD that can each solo the entire thing - we assume this to be the case unless somebody says otherwise. And depending on the mood and level of inconvenience, you'd get your wish 90% of the time (exceptions would be the Direfrost skip for example).

Just the other day, some CP2000+ asked "Hey guys I need the left side boss here please" when we started Wayrest 2. Never done that boss in years but we took a 10 second detour and everybody was happy. Nobody is out there solely to make your life miserable, they just want a fast run and are generally reasonable people.

[edited to remove quote]

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

[snip]

Because I've been called fake tank even when wearing Warden/Yolna/Alkosh simply by wanting to speedrun or combine 3 trash pulls in one.

[snip]

[snip]

See my edit to the post you replied to. It's all about respecting others... or not.

Al it takes is a few seconds of typing.

As to your example of doing it as a duo, you're not pugging so you do whatever you BOTH want to do.

If you have a requirement, you just need to speak up and ask. Noone is going to hold your hand and ask for your permission first. Sure people may still decide to not help you, but at least you made an effort. The standard RND is a speedrun with several DD that can each solo the entire thing - we assume this to be the case unless somebody says otherwise. And depending on the mood and level of inconvenience, you'd get your wish 90% of the time (exceptions would be the Direfrost skip for example).

Just the other day, some CP2000+ asked "Hey guys I need the left side boss here please" when we started Wayrest 2. Never done that boss in years but we took a 10 second detour and everybody was happy. Nobody is out there solely to make your life miserable, they just want a fast run and are generally reasonable people.

I would argue that speed run is not the nRD default when you get grouped with low level players in legacy dungeons or even lowish CP players in the DLC ones. It's not on them to ask me to slow down, it's on me to ask if speeding up is fine with them.

[edited to remove quote]

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

There's no such thing as a "fake role". Anyone can do all 3 on any char and obviously you queue for the fastest one. I cringe every time people tell you stuff like "Tanks gotta taunt" or "Healers gotta heal" but there's no criteria when it comes to our precious DDs. I agree you can't call them fake but that doesn't really justify negligible DPS. Just a lot of double standards, entitlement and hypocrisy everywhere when it comes to this topic.

The saddest part is I never get any support for my proposal of a duo RND queue option, because the same complainers know that fake tanks and healers are the only thing that keeps dungeon finder alive. We are the heroes ESO needs but doesn't deserve.

Ppl should heal themself honestly

Sigh and here im, being called toxic tank because i refuse to skip adds or wipe because half of ppl died in trial and they refuse to get up... Its nice to have problems xD
Anyway there was 1 time when i queued as a tank for rnd on my DD. I slotted range taunt that buffs my damage anyway and nobody had any problems. I dont know how easier being a "tank" can be in normal dungeons.

Anyway i stopped queing for pugs long time ago. Too many bad experiences with DDs that i got.

Arunei wrote: »

Lenny_linguine wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

[snip]

A 4 DPS group can work of course but not always.

I value my word more than lying to get a quicker queue. If I queue as a healer, I'm there ready to do that role if it's needed. If the group happens to be good enough that no healer is needed, I'll just spend my time on my DPS bar.

Some people have no problem posing to save 5 minutes. I do.

what's a Real healers doing with a dps bar ?

[edited to remove quote]

Literally every experienced healer has a bar that has DPS skills. There are plenty of skills that heal while doing damage as well, both just the caster and party members. Not all of a healer's time is spent healing or buffing, the downtime is spent helping kill trash/bosses.

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

There's no such thing as a "fake role". Anyone can do all 3 on any char and obviously you queue for the fastest one. I cringe every time people tell you stuff like "Tanks gotta taunt" or "Healers gotta heal" but there's no criteria when it comes to our precious DDs. I agree you can't call them fake but that doesn't really justify negligible DPS. Just a lot of double standards, entitlement and hypocrisy everywhere when it comes to this topic.

The saddest part is I never get any support for my proposal of a duo RND queue option, because the same complainers know that fake tanks and healers are the only thing that keeps dungeon finder alive. We are the heroes ESO needs but doesn't deserve.

What ZOS needs to do is find mechanics that emphasize the importance of tanks and healers so they're more interesting and appealing to play, instead of putting so much importance on DPS.

If we just look at the last two years of patch notes re: dungeons, you'd find that ZOS has been making it even easier to DD or "fake tank" them:
- hundreds of nerfs to dungeon boss dmg / mechanics
- extra 1000 SD/WD
- extra HP
- forced teleport to boss encounters
- many bosses are optional to reduce dungeon time
- more doors/levers that work while in combat

I honestly stopped bothering with RND queues unless it's absolute necessity after being screamed at via text, called names, and kicked from groups for fake queueing. It's just not worth it to play with that part of the community anymore unless I absolutely have to.

p00tx wrote: »

I honestly stopped bothering with RND queues unless it's absolute necessity after being screamed at via text, called names, and kicked from groups for fake queueing. It's just not worth it to play with that part of the community anymore unless I absolutely have to.

THAT is so fair...and what if you aren't fake??? but new? It should be reasonable to expect respect. Sometimes..."new" does not mean new to the game. You could have a cp 1400 DPS moving to a healing role....

So instead of having more folks to fill out the queue...we get less

I have....some disability...as a DPS or anything else...I will never be outstanding. I thought averaging 45k dps in random dlc content was good enough (in actual content...not "dummy" dps. Dummy dps is much much higher)....I was wrong. I have been informed that is not good enough and i should just uninstall because I suck too much to play ESO.

I am actually considering that if that is true, do I get enough enjoyment out of ESO by removing that content from my play experience to continue playing? Should I try harder to overcome my hands? Should I just move back to Path of Exile?

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are unwilling to do the role for which you queue, you are a terrible person and part of the problem. Now for normal dungeons, that is a really low bar. You need a Taunt for a tank (that you use on bosses) and some sort of group heal as a healer (that you use when you see people's health bars move). Any attempt to rationalize not doing that makes you a more terrible person.

Of course, if your group is okay with it, run whatever you want. That is why when I queue as a healer, I always type in chat, "going to go hybrid DPS/heals, will go full heals if needed or there are any objections." I do that in normal FG1, I do it in Vet DLC. Works every time. AT least half the time, the group says just go full DPS, which I am happy to oblige.

As far as I am concerned, queuing as a tank without a taunt or a healer without at least one group heal, should be a bannable offense. Anyone can slot Inner fire or Vigor, and for normal dungeons, that's all you need to meet the criteria for your role.

Wow! LOL!!!! Someone is being overly dramatic! Trying to ban everyone who fakes tanks/heals a NORMAL dungeon

As someone who fakes tanks on NORMAL dungeons, I don't see anything wrong with it... People shouldn't get banned over it either LOL. That's just ridiculous! You generally don't need a tank on normal dungeons.. especially on based dungeons. I know Clatterclaw looks pretty badass in fungal grotto, but does it truly need someone to... taunt it? As for heals goes... EVERYONE should have a self-heal slotted on the back of their weapon bar.

KaGaOri wrote: »

Sigh.

Honestly wish there were separate dungeon finder queues for "actually want to run the dungeon" and "just here for the crystals".

Don't mind having weak / low level player in rnd group - there's four of us, we can deal with it. Absolutely hate having player who obviously doesn't want to be there and only thing he cares about is how fast can he get out the other end.

I very rarely run dungeons in a group-- with or without Group Finder-- but my experience has always been that everyone else in the group wants to run ahead and finish quickly, so the first thing I do when the quest sharing message pops up is decline the quest share.

And if I accidentally accept the share, I abandon the quest as quickly as I can.

Because I do want to be able to do the quest, and do it at my own leisurely pace, so I don't want to get my chances ruined by over-eager group members.

But hopefully, being able to get through the dungeon as part of a group will help you become familiar enough with it so it will be easier for you to solo the dungeon later and do the quest by yourself.

That isn't always true, because the way the group engages with the mobs and bosses always seems to be different than the way I engage them when soloing a dungeon. Everyone else seems to like the "draw everything at once into a big mass and try to take them down en masse," whereas I like to eliminate the mobs first-- unless the dungeon is programmed so the bosses come running as soon as a single mob gets attacked-- and I generally like to work on things 1 or 2 at a time if possible rather than trying to take down a dozen enemies at once, so I often need to learn a dungeon all over again when doing it solo for the first time, or when doing it with a group for the first time.

Anyway, I doubt they will ever split the Group Finder queue any more than it already is, because that would just make it even harder for most players to find a group within a reasonable length of time.

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

I can understand some of your perspective here since we all started as new players. Part of it is reasonable. If you made a pre-made group in guild to practice tanking, you should definitely expect guildies to respect your sidebosses and pacing. Maybe even take off all their gear before starting. Personally I loved it when my team moved fast and I did my best to keep up, so forgive me if I interpret the same behavior as a positive experience.

However one needs to be careful to not come across as entitled or selfish or even "toxic casual". What I mean by this is everybody in the group obviously has different needs and you just need to work with what you get. Let me give you a real and thankfully rare example. 2 DDs queue for a DLC dungeon eg SCP and gets us 2 who queued RND. It later becomes obvious that they have never done the dungeon or even have the DPS for it despite being decent CP. Everybody mills around the quest NPC since our alts still have quest. I type "wipe at first boss" and we take off, force pull the DDs in and wipe. They proceed to roll dodge around and heal for a while, much to our annoyance. "Noobs. Dead. This is why you fight mobs" they say. Everyone resses and we start boss, DDs dies in red in first few seconds, bosses drop 10 seconds later. "Fake tank. Fake healer. Ress? Noob run" etc etc. This pattern repeats for the entire run. They die instantly to mobs. We leave them dead on boss pulls just to get it over and done with. The entire time they are vote kicking and ranting about not getting a "teaching run" which they somehow truly believe high cp needs to do for others.

As I've said - writing mean stuff in group chat is super weird. On the other hand wonder if there was any comunication from you, like "let's skip to boss" and other player going "ok" (or "wait pls, have quest")? Setting expectation at the start usually helps prevent frustration on both sides.

The thing that rubs me (and likely others) the wrong way is the power imbalance here:

High cp players can choose to go bit slower and at least keep boss taunted and throw AoE heal on the ground to accomondate for low level / beginner / weak player and still get the reward they came for at the end. Plus high cp and more skilled players can escape noobs and questers by going to vet dungeons.

The low level can't choose to run faster, or sprint long enough to get away from skipped mobs. They won't have gear and skills which can compensate for lack of tank and healer yet, let alone player ability if new to game. They have to wait for NPCs to show up and finish chit-chatting to move quest along, or they loose the skill point. And they can't get away from high end players, since all they have are normal dungeons, which are open to everyone.

So, high cp players have all the power and low level players are bassically at their mercy. Saw players here on forums boasting how they run away on low level / weak players, let them die to mobs and finish dungeon without them, so they won't even get loot. Or about kicking players from normal dungeons for questing. And even those who argued the new players should not queue at all and either find other lowbies somewhere in game to do dungeons with, or stay away from even base game normals until they are high level and skilled enough to speedrun with the "big boys".

And then there are players (like me), who aren't low cp, but run dungeons just to run dungeons. For fun. Since ESO is mmo and reason why play this and not single player game is ability to tackle group content together with other players. Can keep up with (most) speedrunners and got used to run on solo build to lessen impact of fake roles on survivability (hurts dps, but you do what you have to do). Still disappointed whenever grouped with players who don't actually want to run dungeon, just get rewards and be out. Well aware those players likely have x other toons to run dungeon with, but it's game not a job. No one is making them run 18 RNDs per day and there is no reason why it should be everyone elses problem.

KaGaOri wrote: »

So, high cp players have all the power and low level players are bassically at their mercy. Saw players here on forums boasting how they run away on low level / weak players, let them die to mobs and finish dungeon without them, so they won't even get loot.

[snip] Your L15 alt isn't going to die skipping trash on FG1 or Spindle 1, or even Falkreath for example, and neither is any brand new player that slots a single self heal or shield. New players still have a genuine sense of wonder because they haven't seen certain skips or burns before. They also follow the higher levels well instead of thinking they know better. Most importantly they expect a "carry" somewhat instead of expecting to be able to "contribute meaningfully" to the run.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

LesserCircle wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

You queue as fake tank? Slot inner fire and taunt.
You queue as fake healer? Slot a heal and heal.

[snip]

Lol I do 60-70% group dps as a fake healer or tank. [snip]

That's fine, as long as you have a heal on top of your good dps, because you queued as that role.

What gives you the right to dictate what people put on their weapon bar?


If I queue in as a tank.. why should I waste my flex slot for a taunt when it's being reserved as my self-heal? Perhaps people should do the same? How on earth are you to make it in vMA when you're struggling to survive a normal-based dungeon?

[edited to remove quote]

Runefang wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

You queue as fake tank? Slot inner fire and taunt.
You queue as fake healer? Slot a heal and heal.

[snip]

Lol I do 60-70% group dps as a fake healer or tank. [snip]

I find myself doing that most of the time as a fake tank. If for any reason A DLC dungeon comes up, and we actually do need a tank.. I gladly switch over to my real tank if needed.


For those who want to call us fake tanks/healers jerks... selfish and everything else you want to come up with.. just be take notice that it may be that fake tank/healer that's carrying the group to the finish line because the **real** dps can barely do any damage whatsoever.

[edited to remove quote]