Stamdk: Ascending Tide

OBJnoob · April 2022

That’s right I’m just jealous of the magplar thread. Let’s see if we have enough dks to keep a thread like this going.

I suppose magdks can feel free to chip in as well, but I confess to be a long time stamdk myself and myself am taking the angle this hybridization patch of “now how can I make my stamdk compete with these crazy magdks.” So specifically, to start, with that in mind— I’m wondering what types of skill setups people have been toying around with.

I play in ravenwatch so the gear isn’t going to mean much to most of you, but hopefully we can have a good talk about the skills. My toon wears ancient dragon guard and eternal vigor… have been using dubious and witchmothers drinks off and on, pleased to find that both my stam and mag sustain are decently balanced and I’m probably going t9 give up eternal vigor for a different set and maybe run jewels of misrule instead.

But anyway… so my bars look like this:
2h maul: dizzy swing, forward momentum (weird I know— just trying it out, don’t really need the heals,) cauterize, flame lash, executioner, D Leap.
1h&shield: hardened armor, igneous shield, coagulating blood, noxious breath, vigor, Temporal guard.

Unfortunately when you primarily play no cp it can be very hard to find duels or practice 1v1s. But I can tell you one scenario that has occurred a few times already and I like very much. Random magplar comes flying at you and starts with the jibbity jabs. Normally their opener and continued efforts were enough to keep me on my backbar. I’d always feel like…. Man, if I could just get off the defense for a while I might be able to make this a real contest. But dizzy swing is so slow by the time you land one it’s time to start healing again.

Now? Like so many quarterbacks before me I just stand in the pocket. Because now I know, even if I’m at 40% health, if I land that dizzy swing now my powerlashes are going to keep me afloat. I basically feel like a magplar— able to stay in my 2h bar for waaaay longer.

Wing · April 2022

im honestly in shock a wee bit.

the graphics card on my PC took a dump right after deadlands launched (was like halfway through the story so it was weird to try and get back into it) and when i left DK was near if not bottom of the pvp roster.

i come back post holiday with a shiny (if annoyingly hard to get) graphics card and get back into ESO to find a switch has flipped.

"nerf DK!" threads, and "DK OP!"

i admit to being every so mildly annoyed that the meta humpers have meta humped there way over to my class, but chasing trends isnt good enough to beat an ESO lifetime of playing a single class ^_^

as to builds

i still personally enjoyed my full stamina titanborn, pariah, bloodspawn build, its kinda like a rock in that i dont know if any meta will fully crack it, and it just fits so nicely on DK.

that being said with the push to hybrid i have been messing with a new build, still almost fully stam but switched some morphs around to magicka.

i switched over to burning embers, flames of oblivion, and slotted molten whip on occasion, though still tend to noxious breath and heavy attacks as bread and butter, honestly have not used dizzy in a long while.

sets i switched to running a 5, 5, 2, 1, 1 setup, with 3,3,2,1,1 being always on and the 5 piece bonuses being on front and back bar.
5 piece front bar wretched vitality, massive sustain, noxious breath procs the large sustain and rally procs both, so its always up in combat and not a hassle.
5 piece back bar Daedric trickery, as DK gets great use out of all the buffs.

both of those are long duration buffs that are easy to keep up.

2 piece bloodspawn, DK staple

1 trainee chest for bonus HP

1 Markyn Ring of Majesty for more raw stats.

food is sugar skulls for raw stats. almost all enchants are damage. you could swap out bloodspawn for full trainee and get more raw stats, and if it were any other class then DK i might recommend it, but DK relies on its ult too much. there are quite a few swaps you could try out but this has felt solid, and most is easy to get or just crafted so it was an easy refit to test.

i still play it like its full stam and it has not required me to really go out of my way or do anything different playstyle wise. as i tend to force build around my style of play rather then vice versa.

Hescrow · April 2022

Here is my build for stamdk:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=323919

I play pariah + hunding rage + balorgh

I prefer use dizzy with flame lash for enjoy plain time off balance

VarisVaris · April 2022

Just play magdk there is no reason to hinder yourself by playing stamdk.

Embrace the trash balance this patch has given us and hop onto the fiery wheelchair with training wheels also known as magdk

OBJnoob · April 2022

Yes dk is in a much better place than a year or two ago. I’m sure it is shocking to someone who’s been away for that time!

Some interesting builds I see… on the tanky side, does everyone think that’s best? My toon has about 6k wep dmg… kinda wishing I had more, but then again I’m mostly fighting magplars magdks and zergs, so, yknow.

I’d say I’m playing a hybrid, not a stam or mag, thankful I can use dizzy with a purpose in mind instead of as a spammable…. Cuz it’s always been slow and stupid for a spammable in my mind. Not sure how much I’m missing out on not doing the molten whip, but the power lash survivability is… hard to give up.

Wing · April 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yes dk is in a much better place than a year or two ago. I’m sure it is shocking to someone who’s been away for that time!

Some interesting builds I see… on the tanky side, does everyone think that’s best? My toon has about 6k wep dmg… kinda wishing I had more, but then again I’m mostly fighting magplars magdks and zergs, so, yknow.

I’d say I’m playing a hybrid, not a stam or mag, thankful I can use dizzy with a purpose in mind instead of as a spammable…. Cuz it’s always been slow and stupid for a spammable in my mind. Not sure how much I’m missing out on not doing the molten whip, but the power lash survivability is… hard to give up.

there comes a point in damage where the diminishing returns really starts to stack up, once you hit between 5-6k your hitting the top end of worth it and further increase are worth less.

example, 2k to 3k increase is a ~50% increase from where you where at, 6k to 7k is only a ~15% increase from where you were at, but both are 1k stat that require the same amount of effort to achieve.

that example works for most stats in ESO and why its best to hit low hanging fruit all over the place rather then go for broke in one thing. you might have 15% more damage then me, but if i have TWICE the sustain you have, whom do you think will win?

VarisVaris wrote: »

Just play magdk there is no reason to hinder yourself by playing stamdk.

Embrace the trash balance this patch has given us and hop onto the fiery wheelchair with training wheels also known as magdk

nah man im good, its all you, cannot stand the lack of mobility that comes with mag DK. mag has no strength not better served by being hybrid.

gariondavey · April 2022

Dw + resto is busted
Can run stats or procs

soniku4ikblis · April 2022

Perfected Cruel Flurry.

OBJnoob · April 2022

Anybody have some insight into a no co setup? Again, mine is a stamdk but basically a hybrid and I’m assuming all dks are stacking weapon damage because of minor brutality, so when I lose to a magdk no matter how busted they are I still feel like I was outplayed.

I dueled a guy in ravenwatch last night and got spanked. My pride isn’t exactly hurt… I know who it was is a good player and a longtime dk. But to be honest it wasn’t close. Like I didn’t even check my recap cuz I know what happened I basically got caught slipping, ate a stun at the wrong time, gg. I knew before that happened that my character wasn’t built as well as theirs. I was doing too little damage and they were doing too much.

Cuddlypuff · April 2022

Only thing stamdk does better than magdk is bombing.

OBJnoob · April 2022

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

divnyi · April 2022

Hybrid DKs are very strong, not worse than magDKs. Especially if you use MagDK gearing tricks.

Honestly I don't even understand how ppl can compare mag vs stam nowadays. It's all the same with hybridisation.

tsaescishoeshiner · April 2022

Wing wrote: »

im honestly in shock a wee bit.

the graphics card on my PC took a dump right after deadlands launched (was like halfway through the story so it was weird to try and get back into it) and when i left DK was near if not bottom of the pvp roster.

i come back post holiday with a shiny (if annoyingly hard to get) graphics card and get back into ESO to find a switch has flipped.

"nerf DK!" threads, and "DK OP!"

i admit to being every so mildly annoyed that the meta humpers have meta humped there way over to my class, but chasing trends isnt good enough to beat an ESO lifetime of playing a single class ^_^

as to builds

i still personally enjoyed my full stamina titanborn, pariah, bloodspawn build, its kinda like a rock in that i dont know if any meta will fully crack it, and it just fits so nicely on DK.

that being said with the push to hybrid i have been messing with a new build, still almost fully stam but switched some morphs around to magicka.

i switched over to burning embers, flames of oblivion, and slotted molten whip on occasion, though still tend to noxious breath and heavy attacks as bread and butter, honestly have not used dizzy in a long while.

sets i switched to running a 5, 5, 2, 1, 1 setup, with 3,3,2,1,1 being always on and the 5 piece bonuses being on front and back bar.
5 piece front bar wretched vitality, massive sustain, noxious breath procs the large sustain and rally procs both, so its always up in combat and not a hassle.
5 piece back bar Daedric trickery, as DK gets great use out of all the buffs.

both of those are long duration buffs that are easy to keep up.

2 piece bloodspawn, DK staple

1 trainee chest for bonus HP

1 Markyn Ring of Majesty for more raw stats.

food is sugar skulls for raw stats. almost all enchants are damage. you could swap out bloodspawn for full trainee and get more raw stats, and if it were any other class then DK i might recommend it, but DK relies on its ult too much. there are quite a few swaps you could try out but this has felt solid, and most is easy to get or just crafted so it was an easy refit to test.

i still play it like its full stam and it has not required me to really go out of my way or do anything different playstyle wise. as i tend to force build around my style of play rather then vice versa.

Love this response—wish I'd seen this before decking out a new player stamDK in Pariah + backbar Clever Alch : P

I'm surprised that Wretched + Daedric Trickery is enough damage, but Markyn is obviously very stat-dense. Seems like a solid build, I just thought I'd need to add a damage set.

I'm wondering what armor weights, traits, and mundus stone you use for that build. Also, what's the Max Health at?

Wing · April 2022

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

im honestly in shock a wee bit.

the graphics card on my PC took a dump right after deadlands launched (was like halfway through the story so it was weird to try and get back into it) and when i left DK was near if not bottom of the pvp roster.

i come back post holiday with a shiny (if annoyingly hard to get) graphics card and get back into ESO to find a switch has flipped.

"nerf DK!" threads, and "DK OP!"

i admit to being every so mildly annoyed that the meta humpers have meta humped there way over to my class, but chasing trends isnt good enough to beat an ESO lifetime of playing a single class ^_^

as to builds

i still personally enjoyed my full stamina titanborn, pariah, bloodspawn build, its kinda like a rock in that i dont know if any meta will fully crack it, and it just fits so nicely on DK.

that being said with the push to hybrid i have been messing with a new build, still almost fully stam but switched some morphs around to magicka.

i switched over to burning embers, flames of oblivion, and slotted molten whip on occasion, though still tend to noxious breath and heavy attacks as bread and butter, honestly have not used dizzy in a long while.

sets i switched to running a 5, 5, 2, 1, 1 setup, with 3,3,2,1,1 being always on and the 5 piece bonuses being on front and back bar.
5 piece front bar wretched vitality, massive sustain, noxious breath procs the large sustain and rally procs both, so its always up in combat and not a hassle.
5 piece back bar Daedric trickery, as DK gets great use out of all the buffs.

both of those are long duration buffs that are easy to keep up.

2 piece bloodspawn, DK staple

1 trainee chest for bonus HP

1 Markyn Ring of Majesty for more raw stats.

food is sugar skulls for raw stats. almost all enchants are damage. you could swap out bloodspawn for full trainee and get more raw stats, and if it were any other class then DK i might recommend it, but DK relies on its ult too much. there are quite a few swaps you could try out but this has felt solid, and most is easy to get or just crafted so it was an easy refit to test.

i still play it like its full stam and it has not required me to really go out of my way or do anything different playstyle wise. as i tend to force build around my style of play rather then vice versa.

Love this response—wish I'd seen this before decking out a new player stamDK in Pariah + backbar Clever Alch : P

I'm surprised that Wretched + Daedric Trickery is enough damage, but Markyn is obviously very stat-dense. Seems like a solid build, I just thought I'd need to add a damage set.

I'm wondering what armor weights, traits, and mundus stone you use for that build. Also, what's the Max Health at?

i run 1-2 heavy reinforced (the trainee chest and legs iirc) 5 medium well fitted, serpent mundus, and full infused weapon damage enchants / power enchants on the 2H. sword and board back bar is also reinforced. i think some monster pieces might be inpen out of habit. . .

top of my head WD is around ~5k in combat, health is just over 30k, stam is almost 30k, stam regen in combat is just short of 3k. im khajiit so your numbers may very.

i used to backbar clever alchemist alot, i feel like its the OG back bar set. but the change to in combat only and having to possibly manage potion use at a inopportune time moved me away. where as trickery on the backbar just works as i have burning embers slotted there for damage, healing, and to proc poisons, and it triggers trickery while im buffing or on the back foot.

i was not a massive fan of trickery back in the day but its constant buffs AND the fact that DK got power crept by DLC classes to the point that it has NONE of the major buffs that trickery provides means it gets amazing use out of the set that other classes might not because they already have access to the buffs.

Wing · April 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

i honestly only get as close to magicka DK as being hybrid, and have not gone full mag in years, not since the days of pre 1.5 when bat swarm was the only offensive skill you needed and dynamic ult gen was a thing.

i have dabbled once or twice as i prefer the fire effect to the green one, but always immediately drop it and revert back.

if someone who is legit mag DK these days wants to counter my points or enlighten me if im wrong on gearing or what not, have at it.

with that being said.

mag DK has always been less mobile stam, due to armor passives, resource pools, and recovery. it MIGHT be closer now, but stam should still be able to sprint faster, dodge roll more, and do both more often, as well as get more use out of blocking. (i would be surious to know the average armor layout of mag DK these days, it used to be either more caster based going more light, or more heavy based, both had problems. or if now mag runs medium?)

this alone matters alot, mag DK historically has been one of the most immobile classes, and it means you cannot alter fights on a strategic level easily. did 3 enemies just come around the corner at you? well your in a 3v1 now and there is nothing you can really do about it. a stam DK might be able to sprint / roll / kite away and change the numbers or avoid the lopsided fight altogether.

this is why mag DK has been amazing at duels / 1v1's as the concept negates its biggest weakness.

xDeusEJRx · April 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

Wing · April 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

im all for debating pros and cons but minor brutality was hardly the defining difference between the two.

xDeusEJRx · April 2022

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

im all for debating pros and cons but minor brutality was hardly the defining difference between the two.

The playstyles were fundamentally one and the same anyways. Molten whip and flame lash just took over most hybrid DK playstyles, but the only thing they had over mag DK was the damage because of minor brutality. But with damage no longer being the selling point, they have nothing that mag DK doesn't already have. Other than resource management being more annoying cause you have to manage two stat pools offensively, it's just a baby Mag DK at this point

Wing · April 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

im all for debating pros and cons but minor brutality was hardly the defining difference between the two.

The playstyles were fundamentally one and the same anyways. Molten whip and flame lash just took over most hybrid DK playstyles, but the only thing they had over mag DK was the damage because of minor brutality. But with damage no longer being the selling point, they have nothing that mag DK doesn't already have. Other than resource management being more annoying cause you have to manage two stat pools offensively, it's just a baby Mag DK at this point

we shall have to agree to disagree.

i could write up a terribly detailed argument with examples and facts but given the dismissiveness and derogatory terminology in your posts it would be a waste of time.

xDeusEJRx contribution and opinion in this thread is thus: hybrid is baby mag DK

thank you for your contribution, please dont come back.

if anyone else has questions or comments, feel free to shout out, everyone else here will help out im sure.

Wing · April 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

Anybody have some insight into a no co setup? Again, mine is a stamdk but basically a hybrid and I’m assuming all dks are stacking weapon damage because of minor brutality, so when I lose to a magdk no matter how busted they are I still feel like I was outplayed.

I dueled a guy in ravenwatch last night and got spanked. My pride isn’t exactly hurt… I know who it was is a good player and a longtime dk. But to be honest it wasn’t close. Like I didn’t even check my recap cuz I know what happened I basically got caught slipping, ate a stun at the wrong time, gg. I knew before that happened that my character wasn’t built as well as theirs. I was doing too little damage and they were doing too much.

i guess without knowing much about the build i would say the problem was it was a duel? Mag DK have always been very good in 1v1 duels, it plays to their strengths.

xDeusEJRx · April 2022

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

im all for debating pros and cons but minor brutality was hardly the defining difference between the two.

The playstyles were fundamentally one and the same anyways. Molten whip and flame lash just took over most hybrid DK playstyles, but the only thing they had over mag DK was the damage because of minor brutality. But with damage no longer being the selling point, they have nothing that mag DK doesn't already have. Other than resource management being more annoying cause you have to manage two stat pools offensively, it's just a baby Mag DK at this point

we shall have to agree to disagree.

i could write up a terribly detailed argument with examples and facts but given the dismissiveness and derogatory terminology in your posts it would be a waste of time.

xDeusEJRx contribution and opinion in this thread is thus: hybrid is baby mag DK

thank you for your contribution, please dont come back.

if anyone else has questions or comments, feel free to shout out, everyone else here will help out im sure.

I don't exactly see what's not true about what I said lol, if you take away proc sets from the equation there's no glaring difference is how they play, except mag DK doesn't have the annoying resource management that being a hybrid entails and can hold more stam than a hybrid setup can, meaning you can't be stam checked in PVP.
Without procs there's literally nothing hybrids have that make them unique and not just an inferior version of a mag dk, so yes "baby mag dk" is fitting. The whip changes made for some variation in how they can be played, but they still follow mag dk formula(particularly flame lash since it requires off balance or immobilize, which means you might be forced to run shattering rocks similar to mag DK).

The whole hybridizing of DK class just made both mag dk and stam DK the same thing even before full hybridization was a thing. And this patch has further shoehorned the class into being a mag DK in playstyle but without the benefits of being built as a proper mag DK. The fact that burning embers is now a HoT has made stam DKs switch venomous over to burning embers because healing is king this patch.

divnyi · April 2022

^ all true.

Only profit of being hybrid now is being able to AoE poison proc coupled with AoE burning proc. Whip, embers, backbar healing staff, charged frontbar - all the things you would expect on magdk is meta on hybrid too.

On being stamchecked - eh maybe, but it's not trivial as stam is my biggest pool. Rather, hybrid merges recoveries and allows to use both resources.

tsaescishoeshiner · April 2022

Wing wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

im honestly in shock a wee bit.

the graphics card on my PC took a dump right after deadlands launched (was like halfway through the story so it was weird to try and get back into it) and when i left DK was near if not bottom of the pvp roster.

i come back post holiday with a shiny (if annoyingly hard to get) graphics card and get back into ESO to find a switch has flipped.

"nerf DK!" threads, and "DK OP!"

i admit to being every so mildly annoyed that the meta humpers have meta humped there way over to my class, but chasing trends isnt good enough to beat an ESO lifetime of playing a single class ^_^

as to builds

i still personally enjoyed my full stamina titanborn, pariah, bloodspawn build, its kinda like a rock in that i dont know if any meta will fully crack it, and it just fits so nicely on DK.

that being said with the push to hybrid i have been messing with a new build, still almost fully stam but switched some morphs around to magicka.

i switched over to burning embers, flames of oblivion, and slotted molten whip on occasion, though still tend to noxious breath and heavy attacks as bread and butter, honestly have not used dizzy in a long while.

sets i switched to running a 5, 5, 2, 1, 1 setup, with 3,3,2,1,1 being always on and the 5 piece bonuses being on front and back bar.
5 piece front bar wretched vitality, massive sustain, noxious breath procs the large sustain and rally procs both, so its always up in combat and not a hassle.
5 piece back bar Daedric trickery, as DK gets great use out of all the buffs.

both of those are long duration buffs that are easy to keep up.

2 piece bloodspawn, DK staple

1 trainee chest for bonus HP

1 Markyn Ring of Majesty for more raw stats.

food is sugar skulls for raw stats. almost all enchants are damage. you could swap out bloodspawn for full trainee and get more raw stats, and if it were any other class then DK i might recommend it, but DK relies on its ult too much. there are quite a few swaps you could try out but this has felt solid, and most is easy to get or just crafted so it was an easy refit to test.

i still play it like its full stam and it has not required me to really go out of my way or do anything different playstyle wise. as i tend to force build around my style of play rather then vice versa.

Love this response—wish I'd seen this before decking out a new player stamDK in Pariah + backbar Clever Alch : P

I'm surprised that Wretched + Daedric Trickery is enough damage, but Markyn is obviously very stat-dense. Seems like a solid build, I just thought I'd need to add a damage set.

I'm wondering what armor weights, traits, and mundus stone you use for that build. Also, what's the Max Health at?

i run 1-2 heavy reinforced (the trainee chest and legs iirc) 5 medium well fitted, serpent mundus, and full infused weapon damage enchants / power enchants on the 2H. sword and board back bar is also reinforced. i think some monster pieces might be inpen out of habit. . .

top of my head WD is around ~5k in combat, health is just over 30k, stam is almost 30k, stam regen in combat is just short of 3k. im khajiit so your numbers may very.

i used to backbar clever alchemist alot, i feel like its the OG back bar set. but the change to in combat only and having to possibly manage potion use at a inopportune time moved me away. where as trickery on the backbar just works as i have burning embers slotted there for damage, healing, and to proc poisons, and it triggers trickery while im buffing or on the back foot.

i was not a massive fan of trickery back in the day but its constant buffs AND the fact that DK got power crept by DLC classes to the point that it has NONE of the major buffs that trickery provides means it gets amazing use out of the set that other classes might not because they already have access to the buffs.

Ty, very insightful! And here I am crafting impen Clever Alch like it's 2004. If their current setup doesn't work, I'll def try out some tips from your build.

As far as the "hybrid DK" discussion, I found that the stamdk build I put together for someone had like half Magicka-costing damage and heal skills—not just buffs. There are just so many, and they're so good.

I think DK is more of a sliding scale between stam and mag, instead of just stam/mag/hybrid. And with so many crucial and viable skills costing magicka, the scale leans heavily towards mag.

Meanwhile ... Stonefist rework when?

Wing · April 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

im all for debating pros and cons but minor brutality was hardly the defining difference between the two.

The playstyles were fundamentally one and the same anyways. Molten whip and flame lash just took over most hybrid DK playstyles, but the only thing they had over mag DK was the damage because of minor brutality. But with damage no longer being the selling point, they have nothing that mag DK doesn't already have. Other than resource management being more annoying cause you have to manage two stat pools offensively, it's just a baby Mag DK at this point

we shall have to agree to disagree.

i could write up a terribly detailed argument with examples and facts but given the dismissiveness and derogatory terminology in your posts it would be a waste of time.

xDeusEJRx contribution and opinion in this thread is thus: hybrid is baby mag DK

thank you for your contribution, please dont come back.

if anyone else has questions or comments, feel free to shout out, everyone else here will help out im sure.

I don't exactly see what's not true about what I said lol, if you take away proc sets from the equation there's no glaring difference is how they play, except mag DK doesn't have the annoying resource management that being a hybrid entails and can hold more stam than a hybrid setup can, meaning you can't be stam checked in PVP.
Without procs there's literally nothing hybrids have that make them unique and not just an inferior version of a mag dk, so yes "baby mag dk" is fitting. The whip changes made for some variation in how they can be played, but they still follow mag dk formula(particularly flame lash since it requires off balance or immobilize, which means you might be forced to run shattering rocks similar to mag DK).

The whole hybridizing of DK class just made both mag dk and stam DK the same thing even before full hybridization was a thing. And this patch has further shoehorned the class into being a mag DK in playstyle but without the benefits of being built as a proper mag DK. The fact that burning embers is now a HoT has made stam DKs switch venomous over to burning embers because healing is king this patch.

i see some very narrow ideas of what hybrid means, it seems its a straight 50/50 from what i can ascertain from your comments, but i disagree. i think a previous stam DK switching out a morph or two for something like burning embers because they can easily take advantage of it is indeed hybrid.

I, personally, have not dealt with any "annoying resource management" using a bit more magicka. some of the strongest resource sets in the game like wretched vitality provide massive sustain for both, and DK's battle roar also restores both.

if your a full mag DK compared to a stam/hybrid DK i find it VERY hard to believe you are close to stam checking them, as the meta for them is at least 5 medium, 5 well fitted, 30k stam minimum with well over 2k stam recovery. if your checking that as Mag? guess what your not mag, your hybrid baby.

what is mag DK's execute?

stam dk have been running a fossilize morph since beta, nothing to switch over to.

gimmi something here, you keep saying generic things about sets or stats, like "hold more stam" and "annoying resource management"
if you have a mag DK:
-what is your armor layout?
-traits?
-sets?
-weapons?

etc.

xDeusEJRx · April 2022

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Am I wrong to think that the new hybrid version of stamdk is comparable to magdk? What’s the difference exactly?

Hybrid stam DK used to be the better version of mag DK because mag dk couldn't use minor brutality buff last patch. So Hybrid stam DK's last patch could push more innate damage than Mag DK could with molten whip, however since this patch made it so mag DK can use minor brutality, hybrid is kinda just baby mag DK at this point lol

im all for debating pros and cons but minor brutality was hardly the defining difference between the two.

The playstyles were fundamentally one and the same anyways. Molten whip and flame lash just took over most hybrid DK playstyles, but the only thing they had over mag DK was the damage because of minor brutality. But with damage no longer being the selling point, they have nothing that mag DK doesn't already have. Other than resource management being more annoying cause you have to manage two stat pools offensively, it's just a baby Mag DK at this point

we shall have to agree to disagree.

i could write up a terribly detailed argument with examples and facts but given the dismissiveness and derogatory terminology in your posts it would be a waste of time.

xDeusEJRx contribution and opinion in this thread is thus: hybrid is baby mag DK

thank you for your contribution, please dont come back.

if anyone else has questions or comments, feel free to shout out, everyone else here will help out im sure.

I don't exactly see what's not true about what I said lol, if you take away proc sets from the equation there's no glaring difference is how they play, except mag DK doesn't have the annoying resource management that being a hybrid entails and can hold more stam than a hybrid setup can, meaning you can't be stam checked in PVP.
Without procs there's literally nothing hybrids have that make them unique and not just an inferior version of a mag dk, so yes "baby mag dk" is fitting. The whip changes made for some variation in how they can be played, but they still follow mag dk formula(particularly flame lash since it requires off balance or immobilize, which means you might be forced to run shattering rocks similar to mag DK).

The whole hybridizing of DK class just made both mag dk and stam DK the same thing even before full hybridization was a thing. And this patch has further shoehorned the class into being a mag DK in playstyle but without the benefits of being built as a proper mag DK. The fact that burning embers is now a HoT has made stam DKs switch venomous over to burning embers because healing is king this patch.

i see some very narrow ideas of what hybrid means, it seems its a straight 50/50 from what i can ascertain from your comments, but i disagree. i think a previous stam DK switching out a morph or two for something like burning embers because they can easily take advantage of it is indeed hybrid.

I, personally, have not dealt with any "annoying resource management" using a bit more magicka. some of the strongest resource sets in the game like wretched vitality provide massive sustain for both, and DK's battle roar also restores both.

if your a full mag DK compared to a stam/hybrid DK i find it VERY hard to believe you are close to stam checking them, as the meta for them is at least 5 medium, 5 well fitted, 30k stam minimum with well over 2k stam recovery. if your checking that as Mag? guess what your not mag, your hybrid baby.

what is mag DK's execute?

stam dk have been running a fossilize morph since beta, nothing to switch over to.

gimmi something here, you keep saying generic things about sets or stats, like "hold more stam" and "annoying resource management"
if you have a mag DK:
-what is your armor layout?
-traits?
-sets?
-weapons?

etc.

The thing is with wretched vitality. It is a proc set, its not a DK thing. If you play in ravenwatch no proc, that no longer applies anymore. Try doing it with a flat max stat in no proc environment and see how that fares. Even in no cp mag dk has basically no mag resource management because inferno has a powerful skill: Elemental susceptibility. which grants them insane magic for FREE and they can spam it. Whereas any hybrid setup cannot get free stamina the same way a mag DK can get free mag with a destro staff. And if you use ice staff back bar, that means even more stamina you can save up.

About my mag DK setup, I have 2 mag dk setups for both flame lash and molten whip:
I use 5 vampire cloak,
5 innate axiom,
1 malacath/Pale order(for cp)
1 pirate skeleton helm
2 reinforced on chest and legs, rest of armor is impen.
1 mace sharpened 1 sword sharpened FB, back bar inferno staff defending

Flame lash setup:
3 potentates
1 sword sharpened 1 mace sharpened FB, back bar inferno staff defending
5 innate axiom
1 markyn ring
3 adept rider
2 reinforced on chest and legs, rest is impen

I almost never get stam checked on a mag dk by an enemy, I only use up my stamina because I pre-emptively rolldodge and dodge roll more than I should(when I should be blocking instead). If I end up stam checked, it's cause I poorly mismanaged my stam rather than the enemy forcing my stam out. And I run mostly Impen. Reason I claim resource management on a hybrid is annoying is because you get forced into a stam check situation from being offensive and defensive rather than the enemy forcing you into that situation.

Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzMfTlOmqgo

Wing · April 2022

@xDeusEJRx

so thanks for being kind enough to both humor my ask of build with a description and a video, there are some good things to point out! and a few i take issue with.

your counter to wretched vitality is saying it wont work on a specific campaign.

. . .i agree.

that campaign is dead for the most part, and uses rules that don't apply to the entirety of the rest of elder scrolls online, obviously sets and build that people use in the 95% of ESO content wont work in a singular environment that has special rules to negate it, thus it being mostly dead. no CP is in a similar state.

i dont know how it is on console but on PC the month long standard is pretty much the main PVP campaign.

as a note props for using draw essence, i personally have not seen an inhale morph used in combat since the 1.5 days. i think i recall seeing one used about a year ago? its so rare that i remember the exact moment as it was a gate fight at the ash milegate between AD and DC. so props.

next is not so much a critique of build or player but environment.

i have to admit when i see pvp or build videos on console i click away. it is arguably a more casual environment (i play both console and PC and play different games on both, i love console just not for MMO's) and often i see PVP players get away with or pull of things that just would not fly on PC.

from what i have heard (this is just conversations i have been a part of, i dont play ESO on console.) console has alot more casual players checking things out, coming and going. where as PVP on PC you easily recognize the players and guilds that have been playing nothing but ESO pvp for years. that of all the MMO's and PVP they have access too they have decided to make ESO their hardcore game.

im honestly pretty decent at this game but it feels like everyone i run into in PvP this is all they do.

your gameplay in the clip was good, and any long time player can see what your doing. a lone DC getting in on a EP vs AD siege, pulling off individuals or jumping on players on siege if they try to ignore you. its very solid 1vX gameplay and the nature of the encounter favors you.

however that console thing ircs me, the fire you come under is a player spamming brawler? a sorc hard casting frags nearby. someone ignoring you on siege (it happens and you jumped on them appropriately) someone ignored you and tried to rez in your face (properly punished again) i saw a Grand Overlord in their so i have to imagine it was someone's raid group. though someone in their did hit you with some nasty snipes. (looking back at this it was not even the EP but an AD player)

there was alot of holding block and casting a barrier ult when you caught out people solo, someone was holding block and tried to use blockade of frost and then you can see their Hiti's hearth set proc. an AD near the end was just bow light attack spamming at nothing.

that was clearly a group more adept at fighting doors then they are people (we do have plenty of those on PC though, its not console exclusive) and you seem to be one of the only experienced players there.

but IIRC it was Fengrush who said thats the nature of 1vX gameplay, as thats what needs to happen until such time as ESO adds back in features like dynamic ult gen to make strong 1vX possible. something they are clearly never going to do.

i dont think you being a mag DK was a deciding factor in that encounter, and the difference between you playing the "strongest" meta vs the "weakest" one is probably ~5-10% combat effectiveness.

just like the inverse is true, of bad players meta humping over to the "strongest" classes and still getting put in the dirt.

OBJnoob · April 2022

Well wing I don’t know why you dislike deus so much but if you fellas want a 3rd opinion, the author of this thread thinks Wing is being rather rude and not hiding it well enough at all. Please stop, this topic turned out better than I thought and I just enjoyed catching up on reading all of that. I’d rather not have good information scrubbed out because an arguement breaks out.

P.S. I’m on console and I play in ravenwatch.

So… yeah, I’m not sure which side I’m on opinion wise, but I fear that experience is teaching me that magdks are better than hybrid dks. OR… am I just not hybridy enough?? I’m 2h and 1h&s. I don’t find that I get stam checked if I’m paying attention but I do get mag checked. I think it would help a lot if I could heavy attack for magic. I suppose resto is the obvious answer…

I recently took eternal vigor off and replaced it with buffer of the swift. Sustaining used to be amazing obviously… I wouldn’t say it’s hard now… but I guess the real issue is being forced to use an ultimate at in opportune time.

divnyi · April 2022

@OBJnoob I've finally made some footage on hybrid DK I run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ZUS-GAN7U

Yeah it's basically MagDK that can use both stam and mag for AoE spammables, which is kinda neat as you can spam nonstop and never run out of gas.

OBJnoob · April 2022

I look forward to looking at it when I'm off work. I've made some changes to my build recently and I'm doing better than I was... Still a bit off from some of the best I see in my campaign. Might like to pick your brain a bit div.

OBJnoob · April 2022

@divnyi sorry I took so long to respond my job was really kicking my butt this past week. So… good gameplay obviously, but I confess to being bad at watching videos. I think the resolution on my tablet might be a little poor, because I was struggling to see what was actually on your ability bar. It seems like you’re using FOO for your magic AoE spammable and Noxious Breath is the stam spam? And you’re using molten whip for an execute basically, is that right?

What two mundus stones are you using? And is there a specific reason why you’re not using spin to win? My guess is it’s because you’re using d-leap yeah? Noxious with d leap for penetration and spin to win for corrosive?

My hybrid is still front barring a 2h because the guild traders and cropsford just can’t find me any 1h swords for buffer of the swift. Running swift, ancient dragon guard, and ring of wild hunt in no proc cyrodiil. It’s definitely a build you can x people on… not that I’m always good enough to do it… and what’s holding me back now is being single target I think.

divnyi · April 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

What two mundus stones are you using?

Shadow & Thief

OBJnoob wrote: »

And is there a specific reason why you’re not using spin to win?

Lots of them. As a spammable, it costs a lot. As a finisher, it has 6m range vs 10m range on noxious. It doesn't proc poison or burning, with charged hitting multiple targets proc is very high chance, meaning those skills actually cost way less.

The build burns out enemies via dots multiplied by insanely high crit modifier, while using many HoTs which are buffed via crit chance also.

If someone in the team buffs WD, this build goes rampant.