Stamdk: Ascending Tide

OBJnoob

I like running flare on a bar to help survive... Results in not having much barspace. Whenever I get my two one handed swift swords I'll be changing d leap for corrosive. Since ill be using Corrosive I'll probably be spinning instead of noxiousing, but that's just me. Mainhand nirn, offhand charged, throw a poison and a flame glyph on them and hopefully I can have the best of both worlds.

Davadin

OBJnoob wrote: »

I like running flare on a bar to help survive... Results in not having much barspace. Whenever I get my two one handed swift swords I'll be changing d leap for corrosive. Since ill be using Corrosive I'll probably be spinning instead of noxiousing, but that's just me. Mainhand nirn, offhand charged, throw a poison and a flame glyph on them and hopefully I can have the best of both worlds.

I haven't seen spin-to-win in a long time until last night on Grey Host I got my ass handed to me buy a stamplar playing blender in middle of raid... goddamnit. now I wanna slot it too.

i got those DW poison+flame. honestly, doesn't feel like much different.

divnyi

Davadin wrote: »

i got those DW poison+flame. honestly, doesn't feel like much different.

Because when enchantment procs, it has 20% chance to apply status effect. You won't really notice much difference unless you roll charged. But when you roll double charged, even normal hits start applying status effects (10% base on single target, 5% on multi target, 3% on single target dot, 1% on AoE dot -- multiply by 500% and it's basically every second hit procs), so lot of ppl consider flame+poison wasted. MagDKs generally roll poison+disease, as they don't do poison damage via skills.

OBJnoob

Yea there’s a well known magdk where I play… we were talking builds after a very good 1v1 I did eventually lose… he’s running, in no proc cyrodiil mind you, heartland and shalks dual wield. He’s using charged and also using blood craze from the dual wield line in a status effect build. Thought it was pretty awesome when I heard it… so awesome I decided to not rip it off even though I have those sets.

divnyi

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yea there’s a well known magdk where I play… we were talking builds after a very good 1v1 I did eventually lose… he’s running, in no proc cyrodiil mind you, heartland and shalks dual wield. He’s using charged and also using blood craze from the dual wield line in a status effect build. Thought it was pretty awesome when I heard it… so awesome I decided to not rip it off even though I have those sets.

This is literally what I've been thinking about today. Didn't know noCP allows heartland. Ha.
Nice to hear it works.

Urzigurumash

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yea there’s a well known magdk where I play… we were talking builds after a very good 1v1 I did eventually lose… he’s running, in no proc cyrodiil mind you, heartland and shalks dual wield. He’s using charged and also using blood craze from the dual wield line in a status effect build. Thought it was pretty awesome when I heard it… so awesome I decided to not rip it off even though I have those sets.

Yeah I exclusively wear Champion of the Hist in Cyro and more or less have since it came out, nowadays with Witch-Knight's Defiance and either Malacath or Markyn in Ravenwatch. I only play with an SnB backbar so Heartland doesn't really work for me, but with a Decisive Resto or Bow backbar you get 2 Ult every tick with Heartland, pretty nice.

Even without Heartland, strictly in terms of Stam sustain, with the uncapping of Battle Roar, Decisive could possibly outperform Charged if you have Heroism, if the only Poison you run is Breath and Claw, since DoTs don't have a great chance to apply Status Effects and because Claw auto-applies it when cast, so Charged does nothing there in a 1v1 for a few seconds.

Talking about Hist Champ or Shalk's is a great way to weed out people who only PvP on paper when they say "why don't you just use Heroic Slash"...

Kartalin

Dagon's is top tier for AOE damage in Ravenwatch, pair it with Heartlands, Gaze of Sithis, and 1 magma incarnate and that should be a good setup. Witch knight is another viable set.

On pc/na a lot of Ravenwatch DKs tank up and depend on corrosive to secure kills — LOS until they can get 1v1 or 1v2 and tear into the unfortunate follower.

Urzigurumash

Kartalin wrote: »

Dagon's is top tier for AOE damage in Ravenwatch, pair it with Heartlands, Gaze of Sithis, and 1 magma incarnate and that should be a good setup. Witch knight is another viable set.

On pc/na a lot of Ravenwatch DKs tank up and depend on corrosive to secure kills — LOS until they can get 1v1 or 1v2 and tear into the unfortunate follower.

Yeah things are out of whack if Sithis is competitive on StamDK. It should be a bad choice for the class. Not knocking those players, they're probably better than me and making a good choice, but I find the idea tremendously offensive.

I'm a bit of a traditionalist with the class though. I maintain there's always been a StamDK on each and every Trials team - in the main tank position.

OBJnoob

I’ll look into dagons for sure… I also take the tank up approach. Wearing buffer of the swift, backbarring flare and temporal guard, being a nord, and ring of wild hunt. Can’t wear sithis though I’m with Urzi on that one I like to block on a dk.

The reason I wanna switch to aoe is because, at least for me, the picking a fight is easy. The getting slowly ganged up on is easy. The escaping to a place for LOSing is halfway easy. The only hard part is isolating the single target and being able to hit him consistently!

Kartalin

OBJnoob wrote: »

Can’t wear sithis though I’m with Urzi on that one I like to block on a dk.

Then Markyn is probably the best way to go, unless you want Wild hunt to make people chase you.
.

Davadin

divnyi wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

i got those DW poison+flame. honestly, doesn't feel like much different.

Because when enchantment procs, it has 20% chance to apply status effect. You won't really notice much difference unless you roll charged. But when you roll double charged, even normal hits start applying status effects (10% base on single target, 5% on multi target, 3% on single target dot, 1% on AoE dot -- multiply by 500% and it's basically every second hit procs), so lot of ppl consider flame+poison wasted. MagDKs generally roll poison+disease, as they don't do poison damage via skills.

I got Nirn+Poison and Charged+Flame.

When I run around Cyro, I still see very low uptime of Burning.... and yes, I light-attack too.

maybe its just me lol.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I’ll look into dagons for sure… I also take the tank up approach. Wearing buffer of the swift, backbarring flare and temporal guard, being a nord, and ring of wild hunt. Can’t wear sithis though I’m with Urzi on that one I like to block on a dk.

The reason I wanna switch to aoe is because, at least for me, the picking a fight is easy. The getting slowly ganged up on is easy. The escaping to a place for LOSing is halfway easy. The only hard part is isolating the single target and being able to hit him consistently!

wow. just checked out Dagon. Me want!

divnyi

Davadin wrote: »

I got Nirn

There, it is the root of your issues. You want double charged. It's more sustain, but importantly, also more damage via elemental procs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qRytTxwOEMQ3YA3xBj0lCtAE46Krs8pvCisoVu6ynA0/edit?usp=sharing

^ Some math

Urzigurumash

divnyi wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

I got Nirn

There, it is the root of your issues. You want double charged. It's more sustain, but importantly, also more damage via elemental procs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qRytTxwOEMQ3YA3xBj0lCtAE46Krs8pvCisoVu6ynA0/edit?usp=sharing

^ Some math

Thanks for that Divnyi. Clearly I'm asleep still running SnB with Sharp or Nirn 2h frontbar. Switching to Charged Frost Staff tonight.. even more Combustion with Elemental Force.

I'm D Swingin til the lights go out, Frost Staff it is

OBJnoob

Don’t worry @Urzigurumash I’ve been lost in the same daydream as you. Your frost staff idea sounds cool.

I can tell you all one thing I’m switching ancient dragon guard out for dagons the very second I find a 2nd buffer of the swift sword. Is it craftable? You don’t have to answer that I’m about to look it up. Dagons would buff inhale too I suppose… gonna be a tanky bomber, lol. Balance.

Urzigurumash

OBJnoob wrote: »

Don’t worry @Urzigurumash I’ve been lost in the same daydream as you. Your frost staff idea sounds cool.

I can tell you all one thing I’m switching ancient dragon guard out for dagons the very second I find a 2nd buffer of the swift sword. Is it craftable? You don’t have to answer that I’m about to look it up. Dagons would buff inhale too I suppose… gonna be a tanky bomber, lol. Balance.

Yeah I knew I was missing out on Charged Combustion by running Sharpened 2h/SnB backbar but seeing the numbers like that really drive home how antiquated this tradition is. I often forget that Noxious' DoT is Single Target, not AoE, same with Volatile's, although Corrosive's I believe is AoE (i.e. "target attached" vs "emanative" DoTs). Looking at that chart I'm still not sure Charged is better for SnB than Decisive, if you have Heroism, or even Powered, Defending, or Nirnhoned if you don't have Heroism, again especially if you're using V Claw. But clearly in any vX with full strength Charged the trait is a must slot.

Dagon's is a dungeon set as I'm sure you've seen - if I read the PTS notes right, next patch this set will buff Reverse Slice too, which now is only "splash damage" (like 2h Heavies) and not proper AoE. I like the set for BGs, but in Solo / Smallscale Cyro I'm much too fond of V Claw in 1v1s to invest entirely in AoEs, and prefer Witch Knight's. V Claw is still up there with Leap and a fully stacked Molten Whip as the highest tooltip skills in our kit.

StamHale, yeah I've been waiting for that since launch, it's ok, I like Burning Talons much better though.

OBJnoob

Yeah witch knights is pretty awesome I was using it front bar last patch with a trainee shield on the back. This patch I’m really not using any poison. I switched to burning embers and am not sure it makes sense to use noxious if I’m going to use corrosive armor as an ultimate.

Urzigurumash

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yeah witch knights is pretty awesome I was using it front bar last patch with a trainee shield on the back. This patch I’m really not using any poison. I switched to burning embers and am not sure it makes sense to use noxious if I’m going to use corrosive armor as an ultimate.

I encourage others to share their experience with the idea, but I've never found satisfaction in depending on Corrosive for all my Pen. Perhaps in duels, or if you're patient enough to strictly "Kite/Turtle until Ult" in Cyro, but for BGs I think it is sure to be a losing strategy. Of course it is true that you can maximize your potential offensive output by getting all your Pen out of Corrosive, but I've always just accepted it as a baked-in limitation for StamDK that it's impossible to maximize damage without Corrosive up while maximizing damage with Corrosive up. I am not patient and prefer to neither Kite nor Turtle, I fight until I die a good death.

I make my own rules, like a bad boy, but I always follow them, like a good little boy, and one of these rules is to always greet each and every opponent with a Noxious Breath. Another one is Maul, always - but sometimes Nirnhoned and not Sharpened. Of course now a Sharpened Greatsword = Nirnhoned Maul but that's a recent change - and much welcome in my opinion because the old difference was difficult to calculate, even if it contributed to more heterogeneity in builds. Sharpened Mauls/Maces will always give you the strongest Leaps.

I still can't get down with Burning Embers. V Claw does more damage, 2 casts of Coag and I'm at 100% Health. Still messing around with all the recent changes of course but I've had my best results running Coag and Vigor (and Health Pots) as my only Heals. If I need more I think I'd prefer to switch Flames of Oblivion to Cauterize than V Claw to Embers, really just a matter of taste here though. Although again V Claw's auto-proc of Poison diminishes the advantages of running Charged over another trait by a slight bit.

But, on the other hand, if you're not running Noxious or V Claw I really don't think Charged is the way to go, you will be getting practically no Stam sustain out of Combustion, when Corrosive pops you will have a nearly full bar of Stam.

Davadin

divnyi wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

I got Nirn

There, it is the root of your issues. You want double charged. It's more sustain, but importantly, also more damage via elemental procs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qRytTxwOEMQ3YA3xBj0lCtAE46Krs8pvCisoVu6ynA0/edit?usp=sharing

^ Some math

I don't understand this at all LOL but I will change to DW 2x charged.

so far I'm having more fun DW+2H than using a shield.

sure, I die more, but if I can take a few with me lol