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Gold Inflation and What Can Be Done
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »Carrying on from @Tommy_The_Gun 's thinking, basically there is a whole segment of the player base who will not use the current selling mechanics but who, if they did have access to the selling side of the economy, would contribute vastly to increasing the supply of items, at which point you could expect the price of more common materials to become more sane relative to what they are used for AND you could plug those players into the economy so that they did not experience so much inflation.
For whatever reason, ZOS has made clear multiple times that a central auction house is not going to be a thing and the guild traders are here to stay. So be it.
But why not an auction house minus?
- You have "emporia" or something at various key cities, or even at bad locations, that are functionally similar to guild stores but are *open to every player and nothing to do with guilds*.
- Each player gets a very limited number of selling slots to stop the emporia completely overtaking the guild stores that ZOS want to preserve.
- If you like, sales at emporia attract a tax to disadvantage them compared to guild stores.
I do not think guild stores are a good idea, least of all for a game like ESO which deliberately courted and courts a non-diehard MMO playerbase. But, plainly, the view is that they are sacred. But the game really, really needs a mechanic to allow players who want nothing to do with guild stores to sell.
Whole game mechanics depend on the player economy to work properly. Most obviously housing and the crafting of furnishings have been aimed at single players and fail the fun test if it takes players literally years to do what they are trying to do. If they fail the fun test, people will stop playing. And while it might seem terribly clever to charge the equivalent of over 70 pounds (in the UK) to someone for a house and then drive them to the Crown store to spend 5 pounds a pop on plants, it isn't in the end. It's exploitative, players will not engage with it and will resent it, and those players will leave.
Spamming zone chat with "WTS" is a joke solution to the problem.
OK, I am going to give this an honest effort. For this idea to work the emporium(s) need to be inferior to guild traders in multiple ways so that it doesn't interfere with how they function. Also, for this to work there has to be strong limits or it could crash the game. So how about we say this.
30 item listing limit per week per account. Items once listed can not be canceled for 3 days. Items expire at 14 days.
To sell in the emporium you must pay a flat fee of 100k gold weekly.
Listing fee is 14% of the sale price, none of which is returned upon cancelation.
Fees and gold are removed from the game.
Something along these lines. Are conditions that would need to be met. The guild stores need to have an appeal to them and on the other side the system would need to be able to limit how many players can sell, how much, and the frequency. The very real reason for this is that too much of it at once will crash the system. It's something that needs to be addressed before venturing outside of the established system.
while this is an interesting idea, this is just another example of how it would cut out "the poor player"
if you cant afford to "rent" your emporium slot, you would still be relegated to "WTS" zone spam anyway
i see this as almost the exact same thing as a guilds that demand dues to join (which i also greatly dislike)plays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.4 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.1 -
alberichtano✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
"Play how u want" doesnt mean "my way of playing is more important than others".
In this situation deciding to not be in a guild is their decision to make trading with ppl harder for themselfs. While i dont have a problem with making this somewhat easier for them i wont agree to changing how entire economy works or wiping the servers because someone doesnt like guilds and cant afford stuff.
There are ppl who like how trading works too. Their "Play how u want" is important too.
Of course there are people who like how trading works, in the game as well as in real life. In both cases, it is often the ones that are already filthy rich and have the priviliges that come with it that are the most content with the system as is. Me, I prefer a system that is more fair to ALL participants, not just the upper clique.
And no, I have no issues with the system myself, but then I am not one of the new, poor gamers either.1 -
alberichtano✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.
Depends on the problem you want to solve. If everything is bind on pickup, trade grinds to an absolute halt. Which of course means that the need or ability to sell crowns goes down with it. It would solve the problem with inflation completely, but it would leave the IRL-poor gamers that can't afford crowns out to hang.1 -
wolfie1.0. wrote: »Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
And how does this help the casual gamer with no gold who doesn't want to farm mats? I thought this thread was about them not being able to afford items sold by the trading guilds. This would eliminate it entirely.
0 -
LesserCircle✭✭✭✭✭
✭There's too much gold in the game and people are so rich that they will pay more to get things faster, so people selling will increase the price everytime and it still sells, because of this, price of everything keeps going up.
It's a hard situation because you can't just remove the gold from the players and you can't add huge gold sinks into basic things because that would hurt the new players too much
1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
And how does this help the casual gamer with no gold who doesn't want to farm mats? I thought this thread was about them not being able to afford items sold by the trading guilds. This would eliminate it entirely.
It would end inflation, which was the complaint. Look how many times have we asked zos for stuff and they have given it to us exactly how we wanted it? It's rare and they will take an adhoc easy way out.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
And how does this help the casual gamer with no gold who doesn't want to farm mats? I thought this thread was about them not being able to afford items sold by the trading guilds. This would eliminate it entirely.
It would end inflation, which was the complaint. Look how many times have we asked zos for stuff and they have given it to us exactly how we wanted it? It's rare and they will take an adhoc easy way out.
Oh yeah, it would end "inflation". And instantly create annoyed, really aggravated players, who wouldn't be players much longer. There are social guilds that have traders with no dues or sales requirements that new players can join; simply picking flowers and mushrooms will earn quite a bit of gold. Doing writs and getting hireling mats adds gold. They get gold because other players are willing to pay for mats/potions/motifs they do not want to [or can't] farm for themselves. Force players who want to do trials to do farming for all the mats/ingredients they need for potions will not make them happy. Force players who only want to pvp to do pve stuff and farm mats and ingredients they need for the potions to compete in pvp and they will not be happy campers either. Simply by looking at former threads and topics here, *forcing* players to do content they do NOT want to do is a losing proposition.
If people aren't willing to pay the prices asked, the items don't sell. The sellers have to wait until the listing expires or pull it to relist it lower. Until that personal opinion arbitrary limit is reached, attempting to force people to not sell, or sell at fixed prices is not going to work.1 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
And how does this help the casual gamer with no gold who doesn't want to farm mats? I thought this thread was about them not being able to afford items sold by the trading guilds. This would eliminate it entirely.
It would end inflation, which was the complaint. Look how many times have we asked zos for stuff and they have given it to us exactly how we wanted it? It's rare and they will take an adhoc easy way out.
Oh yeah, it would end "inflation". And instantly create annoyed, really aggravated players, who wouldn't be players much longer. There are social guilds that have traders with no dues or sales requirements that new players can join; simply picking flowers and mushrooms will earn quite a bit of gold. Doing writs and getting hireling mats adds gold. They get gold because other players are willing to pay for mats/potions/motifs they do not want to [or can't] farm for themselves. Force players who want to do trials to do farming for all the mats/ingredients they need for potions will not make them happy. Force players who only want to pvp to do pve stuff and farm mats and ingredients they need for the potions to compete in pvp and they will not be happy campers either. Simply by looking at former threads and topics here, *forcing* players to do content they do NOT want to do is a losing proposition.
If people aren't willing to pay the prices asked, the items don't sell. The sellers have to wait until the listing expires or pull it to relist it lower. Until that personal opinion arbitrary limit is reached, attempting to force people to not sell, or sell at fixed prices is not going to work.
I obviously can't speak for them, but (in context) I suspect that the poster may to some extent have been being ironic since a great many posts in this thread are, indeed, about forcing players who do not want to engage with content (the current selling mechanics) to engage with it as provided rather than see it made more sensible because, well, the posters making that point are fine with it.
But absolutely not fine with doing anything at all to accommodate players who do not want the same things they want. No, no, no. That would be ridiculous. Because reasons.Edited by Northwold on March 25, 2022 1:08PM2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.
Depends on the problem you want to solve. If everything is bind on pickup, trade grinds to an absolute halt. Which of course means that the need or ability to sell crowns goes down with it. It would solve the problem with inflation completely, but it would leave the IRL-poor gamers that can't afford crowns out to hang.
What would actually happen is that players would leave the game en mass because the whole loot system is not made for everything to be bop. Trying to get that furniture blueprint on your own thats super rare because you cannot buy it anymore or buy the furniture that comes out of it? Having to farm for whole motifs on your own with lots of copies along the way that you can throw away? You basically get the problem the stickerbook originally had where ppl dont get what they need, but instead get dupliates of what they already have. On a long run it would cause alot of frustration in the player base.Edited by Xebov on March 25, 2022 1:54PM2 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.
Depends on the problem you want to solve. If everything is bind on pickup, trade grinds to an absolute halt. Which of course means that the need or ability to sell crowns goes down with it. It would solve the problem with inflation completely, but it would leave the IRL-poor gamers that can't afford crowns out to hang.
What would actually happen is that players would leave the game en mass because the whole loot system is not made for everything to be bop. Trying to get that furniture blueprint on your own thats super rare because you cannot buy it anymore or buy the furniture that comes out of it? Having to farm for whole motifs on your own with lots of copies along the way that you can throw away? You basically get the problem the stickerbook originally had where ppl dont get what they need, but instead get dupliates of what they already have. On a long run it would cause alot of frustration in the player base.
Actually I kind of wonder if there is a market for a game like this. Obviously it wouldn't work NOW in ESO as that horse has left the barn, but a game where everyone's character has only what they worked on their self. Outside financial situations/availability wouldn't matter, bots wouldn't help. Just what your toon can do and earn. Obviously drops and decon would have to be tweaked and modified, (say you can decon recipes for mats) but it could be interesting.0 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.
Depends on the problem you want to solve. If everything is bind on pickup, trade grinds to an absolute halt. Which of course means that the need or ability to sell crowns goes down with it. It would solve the problem with inflation completely, but it would leave the IRL-poor gamers that can't afford crowns out to hang.
What would actually happen is that players would leave the game en mass because the whole loot system is not made for everything to be bop. Trying to get that furniture blueprint on your own thats super rare because you cannot buy it anymore or buy the furniture that comes out of it? Having to farm for whole motifs on your own with lots of copies along the way that you can throw away? You basically get the problem the stickerbook originally had where ppl dont get what they need, but instead get dupliates of what they already have. On a long run it would cause alot of frustration in the player base.
Actually I kind of wonder if there is a market for a game like this. Obviously it wouldn't work NOW in ESO as that horse has left the barn, but a game where everyone's character has only what they worked on their self. Outside financial situations/availability wouldn't matter, bots wouldn't help. Just what your toon can do and earn. Obviously drops and decon would have to be tweaked and modified, (say you can decon recipes for mats) but it could be interesting.
I doubt it. Having stuff character only would greatly reduce replayability for many players because every character would start at zero on its own. Having it account based would ease this abit but its very complicated to get propper systems going to support it. You would force players into content by leaving them with less choices. Also all drop rates would need to be carefully set to prevent to fast progression but also to allow progression. Not being able to trade items would also greatly reduce social inetraction. You could no longer share stuff, but also no longer give stuff away, like crafting items for new players.1 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.
Depends on the problem you want to solve. If everything is bind on pickup, trade grinds to an absolute halt. Which of course means that the need or ability to sell crowns goes down with it. It would solve the problem with inflation completely, but it would leave the IRL-poor gamers that can't afford crowns out to hang.
What would actually happen is that players would leave the game en mass because the whole loot system is not made for everything to be bop. Trying to get that furniture blueprint on your own thats super rare because you cannot buy it anymore or buy the furniture that comes out of it? Having to farm for whole motifs on your own with lots of copies along the way that you can throw away? You basically get the problem the stickerbook originally had where ppl dont get what they need, but instead get dupliates of what they already have. On a long run it would cause alot of frustration in the player base.
Actually I kind of wonder if there is a market for a game like this. Obviously it wouldn't work NOW in ESO as that horse has left the barn, but a game where everyone's character has only what they worked on their self. Outside financial situations/availability wouldn't matter, bots wouldn't help. Just what your toon can do and earn. Obviously drops and decon would have to be tweaked and modified, (say you can decon recipes for mats) but it could be interesting.
I doubt it. Having stuff character only would greatly reduce replayability for many players because every character would start at zero on its own. Having it account based would ease this abit but its very complicated to get propper systems going to support it. You would force players into content by leaving them with less choices. Also all drop rates would need to be carefully set to prevent to fast progression but also to allow progression. Not being able to trade items would also greatly reduce social inetraction. You could no longer share stuff, but also no longer give stuff away, like crafting items for new players.
Oh I have no doubt there would be many who would hate it. No economy/trader game, no cheat/bots. Casuals would be disadvantaged as they couldn't play 24-7 and altoholics (hi, my name is Lumenn and I too am an altoholic 👋) would have to focus on one good player vs many mediocre. But the idea still has some appeal. Everything you have you worked for and earned. Your skills, gear, etc. Guild/faction pride might mean more. No mercenaries/box character. Teamwork could be more important. Hardcore may love it. But yes, drops etc would have to be adjusted.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most this is players trying to come up with a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist. Players can get everything they need and most of what they want. The prices of different items flow independent of each other based on supply and demand. The market system has different levels for different types of players. I compare trade guilds to trial guilds. There are some that are really serious about trading and spend a huge chunk of their time towards trading. Flippers are akin to groups trying for the leader board or trifecta runs in trials. They are the elite players.
Mid level traders are comparable to progression groups. Not super hardcore but spend time specifically towards the chosen activity. Players that only want to run trials for gear can get into pick-up groups in Craglorn for their gear runs. Players that occasionally want to sell items can use zone chat or can place items in guild store. Even if the guild doesn't have a trader you can still use the store to sell to guildmates. There are players that have zero interest in trials and players that have zero interest in trading. That doesn't mean we scrap the systems or drastically change them. Every player has the opportunity to participate in trading at the level they wish with the current system. Some consider trading an end game activity. Most are casual and some don't care at all. The system we have now accommodates all those players. Just like PvP the more time you spend doing it the more you get out of it. A casual PvP'r doesn't need a PvP guild. A player looking for serious raids is going to want to join a PvP centered guild and work to land a spot in the top raiding party.
And buying crowns with in game gold does not create more gold. It does consolidate the gold some but I'm not sure it is enough to make any drastic changes to the economy.
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
dvonpm✭✭✭✭Just a reminder for anyone complaining about inflation and guild dues.
You canNecrotech_Master wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »Carrying on from @Tommy_The_Gun 's thinking, basically there is a whole segment of the player base who will not use the current selling mechanics but who, if they did have access to the selling side of the economy, would contribute vastly to increasing the supply of items, at which point you could expect the price of more common materials to become more sane relative to what they are used for AND you could plug those players into the economy so that they did not experience so much inflation.
For whatever reason, ZOS has made clear multiple times that a central auction house is not going to be a thing and the guild traders are here to stay. So be it.
But why not an auction house minus?
- You have "emporia" or something at various key cities, or even at bad locations, that are functionally similar to guild stores but are *open to every player and nothing to do with guilds*.
- Each player gets a very limited number of selling slots to stop the emporia completely overtaking the guild stores that ZOS want to preserve.
- If you like, sales at emporia attract a tax to disadvantage them compared to guild stores.
I do not think guild stores are a good idea, least of all for a game like ESO which deliberately courted and courts a non-diehard MMO playerbase. But, plainly, the view is that they are sacred. But the game really, really needs a mechanic to allow players who want nothing to do with guild stores to sell.
Whole game mechanics depend on the player economy to work properly. Most obviously housing and the crafting of furnishings have been aimed at single players and fail the fun test if it takes players literally years to do what they are trying to do. If they fail the fun test, people will stop playing. And while it might seem terribly clever to charge the equivalent of over 70 pounds (in the UK) to someone for a house and then drive them to the Crown store to spend 5 pounds a pop on plants, it isn't in the end. It's exploitative, players will not engage with it and will resent it, and those players will leave.
Spamming zone chat with "WTS" is a joke solution to the problem.
OK, I am going to give this an honest effort. For this idea to work the emporium(s) need to be inferior to guild traders in multiple ways so that it doesn't interfere with how they function. Also, for this to work there has to be strong limits or it could crash the game. So how about we say this.
30 item listing limit per week per account. Items once listed can not be canceled for 3 days. Items expire at 14 days.
To sell in the emporium you must pay a flat fee of 100k gold weekly.
Listing fee is 14% of the sale price, none of which is returned upon cancelation.
Fees and gold are removed from the game.
Something along these lines. Are conditions that would need to be met. The guild stores need to have an appeal to them and on the other side the system would need to be able to limit how many players can sell, how much, and the frequency. The very real reason for this is that too much of it at once will crash the system. It's something that needs to be addressed before venturing outside of the established system.
while this is an interesting idea, this is just another example of how it would cut out "the poor player"
if you cant afford to "rent" your emporium slot, you would still be relegated to "WTS" zone spam anyway
i see this as almost the exact same thing as a guilds that demand dues to join (which i also greatly dislike)
I mean, those dues are a gold sink. It's just that your guilds have to wheedle it out of you by begging for it.
How are guilds supposed to cover 20-60 million bids per week if no one pays for it?
Raffles, auctions, and 3.5% taxes from sales don't cover it and I'm not sure how fair it is to ask a few of us to continually struggle to cover these costs so you don't have to experience the sinking of your gold while reaping the benefits of a costly trading spot.1 -
NettleCarrier✭✭✭✭✭I've read through all the pages of this discussion and it seems most can agree with the fact that we need more gold sinks. Now these should be things like houses and cosmetics which do not provide a significant advantage over newer players to shrink the gap. Obviously the solution will be short lived if stuff isn't continually coming out for it.
Now I'm going to say this - because my guild takes in new traders all the time and teaches them what things are worth and helps get them started on trading. I sincerely don't think the price of materials, whatever they may be, is hurting anyone. New players are perfectly capable of doing basic farming and making 100k-200k gold per hour of their time. This same amount of gold might be double what it was two years ago and might be only half of what it'll be in a year. That's the "beauty" of inflation in an MMO is that time spent should always maintain the same ratio of value in the game's economy. When I started this game 100k was an insane amount of money, now it's something I spend without a moment of hesitation.
To all those mentioning trade guild dues and such, yeah they stink to have to work around. My officers and I all put in millions per week to supplement what we can get out of a raffle in order to not require dues for the guild, but our trader location is severely hampered by this. It is exactly because of the negative connotation of having dues that we will be stuck at the same tier of trade location for the foreseeable future. Things in this aspect of the game will only get worse and my hope is that by the time I need to raise bids again we'll have a few more people moving product to offset the difference.
As for "casual" players not being able to make money in this game, I have to call that a silly concept. I have far less time to play now than I did when I started. In addition to having my own trader I am also part of two large trading guilds which do require dues, except the dues are either to not be in the bottom 5% or they are 40k gold which can be comprised of any combination of straight donation or sales tax. Both guilds are extremely easy to meet and I'm selling there anyway so it's no extra gold out of my pocket. I spend maybe an hour or two each week shopping smaller traders (including my own) and flipping the stuff for 10% higher (or more depending on what kind of deal I found) on my big traders. The rest of my money comes from simply buying up event styles/recipes and letting them sit in the bank for a few months. I haven't needed to farm for anything in two years just maintaining this basic routine. Anyone can do it with 1 million to 2 million gold to invest, and getting that first 1-2 million is as simple as a good weekend picking resource nodes or a good day farming Silent Halls for scaly cloth scraps or something - my point is that anyone can start and do what I do and just *coast* after that.
GM of Gold Coast Corsairs - PCNA2 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I might be wrong, but to me the secret & random "bidding" mechanics looks like something that was supposed to force um... "randomness" - to give every guild a chance to find a trading spot, keep it for a while and then move to a next random vendor NPC. So there would be a rotation. If one would try to perma-take one spot... then yeah, prices for that spot (bids) will go higher & higher over time. So if guilds are trying to pass on some of the costs of them perma-taking one spot to "customers" (buyers) - then yes, prices will go up.How are guilds supposed to cover 20-60 million bids per week if no one pays for it?Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on March 25, 2022 6:01PM0 -
Heartrage✭✭✭✭✭One simple solution : adding bank space upgrades levels and remove them from the crown store.
-It could easily sink millions of gold very rapidly and consistently.
-While zos would loose on the slots money, it would incense people to subscribe to eso plus since the bank space would be that much increased. (If you have to pay 500k gold for the next 10 slots, paying 15$/a month for 300-400 slots would seem cheap)
-It wouldn’t affect pvp areas performance since you wouldn’t have to load all the information for these zones.
-It would solve inventory problems some people experience (especially traders or people that like to keep many sets for pvp, farming and pve.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Arbitrarily scrugeeing over New Players simply because established players have amassed large amounts of gold is NOT a good formula. You want players to be required to spend 100k - 150k just to make One outfit on the Outfitter ??
That's beyond ridiculous.
The Market prices will be as high and low as the Market will bear. Put an item up for 200k - if players want it for that price, they will pay it. If they Don't want it for that price - They will Not pay it, and wait for it to drop into a level they feel it is worth.
Just wiping out all the gold won't change things in the short term. Everyone is used to the prices we have now. Everyone knows what to expect the price will be when selling/buying their items, It would take months before anything dropped, and even then, players would be making more gold during those months. So the eventual change would still be minimal.
Despite my disdain for the phrase, the market "is what it is". Its not going to change. And it shouldn't. Wiping out everyone's gold with huge sinks - which would be seen by players to be basically a game mechanic implemented to simply steal the player's gold - would have a negative effect permanently. The huge static gold sinks you installed would Not go away once the stashes of gold the players previously had were gone. At that point you have huge gold sinks and not enough gold income to sustain anything.
This is Not a good plan.
IMHO
Which is why I mentioned a server wipe. Remove all gold and anything that can be turned into gold via npc selling from the game. Wipe it all.
Or we could make the game economy really stable and just make everything bind on pickup then everything would cost 0 gold.
A server wipe eliminating all of our currency and inventory is not a viable option. Players do not want to farm their gear, consumable materials, and everything else again. Many would leave. It is just bad for business.3 -
NettleCarrier✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I might be wrong, but to me the secret & random "bidding" mechanics looks like something that was supposed to force um... "randomness" - to give every guild a chance to find a trading spot, keep it for a while and then move to a next random vendor NPC. So there would be a rotation. If one would try to perma-take one spot... then yeah, prices for that spot (bids) will go higher & higher over time. So if guilds are trying to pass on some of the costs of them perma-taking one spot to "customers" (buyers) - then yes, prices will go up.How are guilds supposed to cover 20-60 million bids per week if no one pays for it?
This really doesn't work though. Members of these guilds have data on what sells in which guilds for certain prices and those prices heavily depend on the location. If my "best" trading guild moved around all the time I would probably leave and look for one more stable, because having stability in my sales is much more important to me than anything else. If location changed week to week then the prior investments I made might end up flopping and I would stop engaging with the system entirely. Similarly when I place my own bids, I have a rough idea of what each locations costs and I'd expect my members to get a little miffed at me if some weeks were better than others, so I try to do right by them and keep things stable even if it comes out of my own pocket.GM of Gold Coast Corsairs - PCNA1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I might be wrong, but to me the secret & random "bidding" mechanics looks like something that was supposed to force um... "randomness" - to give every guild a chance to find a trading spot, keep it for a while and then move to a next random vendor NPC. So there would be a rotation. If one would try to perma-take one spot... then yeah, prices for that spot (bids) will go higher & higher over time. So if guilds are trying to pass on some of the costs of them perma-taking one spot to "customers" (buyers) - then yes, prices will go up.How are guilds supposed to cover 20-60 million bids per week if no one pays for it?
This would reduce the biggest gold sink in the game to the point of being minuscule. The minimum bid is set for the chance of a guild being able to get a vendor for a more reasonable amount. I am in a guild that often gets a vendor for the minimum bid and we are still able to sell pretty well but with this idea, those megamillion bids would vanish since such a large bid would become pointless.0 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭NettleCarrier wrote: »I've read through all the pages of this discussion and it seems most can agree with the fact that we need more gold sinks. Now these should be things like houses and cosmetics which do not provide a significant advantage over newer players to shrink the gap. Obviously the solution will be short lived if stuff isn't continually coming out for it.
Gold sinks dont realy work. The problem is that everyone is equally effected by them no matter how much gold they own. If you create appealing stuff thats expansive to sink gold from one corner of the game you automatically create frustration among less rich players in a different corner of the game. There is no way to avoid this.
3 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would having "The Golden" sell bound transmute crystals work as an effective sink?
(You'd want to cap the amount sold per account per day to avoid players gaining transmutes too rapidly and you'd want to charge enough that you'd primarily be pulling in the rich/people that really don't want to do the content that rewards transmutes. Prices would possibly need to be a bit different on console than on PC)
Some players might buy from "The Golden" instead of doing content that rewards the crystals but, as "The Golden" is only around on weekends the negative impact on population might be limited.0 -
NettleCarrier✭✭✭✭✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »Would having "The Golden" sell bound transmute crystals work as an effective sink?
(You'd want to cap the amount sold per account per day to avoid players gaining transmutes too rapidly and you'd want to charge enough that you'd primarily be pulling in the rich/people that really don't want to do the content that rewards transmutes. Prices would possibly need to be a bit different on console than on PC)
Some players might buy from "The Golden" instead of doing content that rewards the crystals but, as "The Golden" is only around on weekends the negative impact on population might be limited.
I'd love to buy transmutes for gold, as transmutes are the only thing I really farm anymore (and by farm I mean running daily dungeons) because I like to experiment with whacky sets. That said, I don't think that's a good direction for the game to go in (as much as it would make me happy lol).GM of Gold Coast Corsairs - PCNA1 -
alberichtano✭✭✭✭✭
✭alberichtano wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.
If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.
"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.
And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.
While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.
"Play however you want" is the game's motto, not "play in a guild and be 1337 or go away".
You can play the way you want, but that doesnt mean that you get the result you like. The game offers enough options to get what you like, if you dont like them then your playstyle is not able to achieve it.
Just remember that the real easy solution for ZOS is just to make everything bind on pickup and remove trading altogether. Who knows we might actually get better performance that way.
Its not even a solution to begin with.
Depends on the problem you want to solve. If everything is bind on pickup, trade grinds to an absolute halt. Which of course means that the need or ability to sell crowns goes down with it. It would solve the problem with inflation completely, but it would leave the IRL-poor gamers that can't afford crowns out to hang.
What would actually happen is that players would leave the game en mass because the whole loot system is not made for everything to be bop. Trying to get that furniture blueprint on your own thats super rare because you cannot buy it anymore or buy the furniture that comes out of it? Having to farm for whole motifs on your own with lots of copies along the way that you can throw away? You basically get the problem the stickerbook originally had where ppl dont get what they need, but instead get dupliates of what they already have. On a long run it would cause alot of frustration in the player base.
Oh absolutely! But then again, many hardcore gamers complain that the game is too easy, and want MORE grind and farming, so there is that.
But for more casual players such as myself? Oh yes, I am already tired of too much grind for so many things. It IS a solution though - just not a very good one.
0 -
alberichtano✭✭✭✭✭
✭One simple solution : adding bank space upgrades levels and remove them from the crown store.
-It could easily sink millions of gold very rapidly and consistently.
-While zos would loose on the slots money, it would incense people to subscribe to eso plus since the bank space would be that much increased. (If you have to pay 500k gold for the next 10 slots, paying 15$/a month for 300-400 slots would seem cheap)
-It wouldn’t affect pvp areas performance since you wouldn’t have to load all the information for these zones.
-It would solve inventory problems some people experience (especially traders or people that like to keep many sets for pvp, farming and pve.
It would, however, increase data storage use, which is very bad considering we just lost character achievements in order to keep it nice and friendly.0 -
Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »More gold sinks yes but as mentioned, now charging for upgrading your armor would hurt the new players much more than the ones who play for a longer time.
You could see millions and millions of gold disappear from the game if ZOS would add an option to exchange gold for crowns.That would make a difference because just adding a few minor gold sinks here and there won't have much if any impact.
This would be one of the SINGLE BEST FEATURES added since One Tamriel. Seriously. This would change EVERYTHING.0 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SweetrollHoarder wrote: »Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »More gold sinks yes but as mentioned, now charging for upgrading your armor would hurt the new players much more than the ones who play for a longer time.
You could see millions and millions of gold disappear from the game if ZOS would add an option to exchange gold for crowns.That would make a difference because just adding a few minor gold sinks here and there won't have much if any impact.
This would be one of the SINGLE BEST FEATURES added since One Tamriel. Seriously. This would change EVERYTHING.
Including ESO's profitability (!!!).0