Gold Inflation and What Can Be Done

Amottica

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

The idea of taxing those with over a certain amount of gold sounds good until you realise it will drive prices up higher.

Why?

Because those players with huge amounts of gold won't want to pay tax, so they will buy chromium, dreugh wax, anything that's likely to keep its value and then if they need money they can resell what they bought.

In the meantime for those without the limitless money prices will appear to increase rapidly due to the numbers of materials on the market decreasing.

So no, a rich tax won't help

Then the solution is make valuable items like Chromium Plating's buyable from NPCs

OR

Make items only sellable once and then they are bound, this in addition to the tax would kill inflation.

Or design a system where players can farm the items and materials for themselves.

I started eso about a year ago, only have three maxed level characters, and have a couple doused chromium platings banked. I haven’t bought any of them.

Vexen

Do not change the market or cap gold. Leave it AS IS. There are MANY ways to make gold that I won't list here - without the need of having played for years and years to do so.

We ALL start with zero gold and mats here. How you choose to go up from there is entirely up to you.

Cardhwion

Northwold wrote: »

"There are plenty of opportunities to provide items to the market."

Sorry but this is the classic kind of statement you would expect to find on this forum that is actually very different from sentiments elsewhere.

No. There are two places where you can sell in ESO:

1. Through a guild store. And good luck if you don't intend to play more than weekly or have a casual play style because your guild will kick you when they decide to go big, which is not actually a very nice feeling for a casual player. It's actively alienating.

2. Through zone chat, which is plain annoying.

ESO courts casual players. There is nothing wrong with being a casual player, despite what some people here might think, and there is no sensible mechanism for casual players really to sell stuff in ESO. It is truly weird.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. I am a casual player, and I get very well along with my trading guild (over a year if time is a matter). It is not that hard, and does not eat that much time, if you know what you are doing. I could even cut down that time, if I was in a less prolific guild.

I don't think we need more gold sinks but there are some things that might entice players to spend more gold. Like buying 5 training points at the stable but for a higher price.

EmEm_Oh

targario wrote: »

hey dear community,

as everyone knows there is a crazy amounts of gold inflation in the game and i want to talk why this is a bad thing for "casual players"(as zos proved that they care casuals more) and my suggestions to fix this.


inflation is bad for new and casual players because it will fear them, the millions of gold is need to get some new items or upgrading stuff. jewelry upgrading was pricey even before this infilation and now its way worse.

what can be done?

well, zos needs to add some mechanics or activities that should require some gold from the players.

Examples: (all below just random thoughs, and prices can be changed accordingly)

Upgrading should ask for some gold:
Blue to Purple, usual mats + 10k gold
Purple to Yellow, usual mats + 100k gold

Outfit system should require for more gold:
500 gold is now 5k
1k gold is now 10k
3k gold is now 30k

Transmutating should require more gold.


and obviously daily writs should give less money, or maybe less for multiple characters.


I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, and what other things could be done about this problem?

good days.

The problem with monetary inflation (in a game) is that once you begin penalizing (i.e., charging more) users, you decrease participation even more.

During certain events, it is possible to gain more currency and catch-up with some of the inflation.

If a person cannot afford gear at certain prices they have a choice. Grind it with a group, or save up the gold for a direct purchase. Just because prices are high, does not mean everyone else needs to feel their pain at the store. Over time, you will eventually have enough gold saved up to where you can get anything you want.

I'm not into Community Penalizing just because some players can't get all the best equipment within 24hrs. You have to earn it. You have to grind for it. You have to dedicate time for it like the rest of us.

Inaya

There is nothing hard about making gold in ESO. When I started I had a million in no time just through questing, daily crafting writs and selling junk.

If you don't like to farm mats then they will be expensive since you are paying someone else to provide something you want but don't want to waste time getting.

wolfie1.0.

First assigning fixed costs to crafting interactions won't work, they are just a tax on poorer players and just won't work.

Second, there simply is just way more gold on the PC servers. It's easier to complete gold generating tasks on PC with and without any addons (including ttc). So players spend more time on such activities.

Third, the economy of each server is unique to each one and is player driven. The vast majority of items that are sold in traders can be farmed with just a time investment for free, or reduced costs.

Fourth, mats are simply more valuable than gold. There isn't much that players can actually spend gold on that actually removes the gold from the game. Mats at least are usable for the next meta change.

Solutions from ZOS: More in game cosmetics

Solutions from players: farm more mats and don't pay prices you feel are too high.

Jaimeh

We do need more gold sinks, right now most old players who've gotten all their bag upgrades and purchaseable houses and presumably have a few characters for crafting writs so they are OK with mats, don't really have a lot of things to spend gold on (permanently, I mean, and not via traders in which case gold gets to other players). A few houses that are available for gold (and are tied to an achievement so that even non-housing fans would have an incentive to buy them) would be a nice addition and help sink some gold.

xaraan

I always felt the best thing is to do something like

1. This one is a weird idea I admit, but: ZoS to officially offer crown deals or crown crates for gold at a rate similar to what the average might be - but due to different values across servers it would have to be handled carefully, maybe for limited specials and priced differently every time they tried it. As it is now, we just shift a lot of gold around the economy and end up putting a lot of gold into a small number of hands that can swing the market or inflation worse than it is by their actions. Another problem with this outside of values being different on servers is that they would probably see it as removing $$ from their wallets, which is going to matter more to them than a healthy game economy. So honestly I'd expect this one to be a no-go.

2. A more likely option: Add more gold sinks like better golden vendor items to both the furnishings and equipment vendors. Instead of just making the existing gold sinks more punishing, adding things people want to spend money on is a better idea IMO.

3. Add some high value gold items to the game in vendors, stuff that you might spend AP and Tel-var on - but older stuff and at a high value to not impact guild trade sales too much - but offer an option to just remove that gold from the economy instead of shift it around among players. It would also put a cap on the going rates of some gear, like if you could buy hakaijo from the IC trader for 30k gold each (for example, not sure what going rate is currently on every server), then it keeps someone with too much gold and time from trying to take control of the market and drive the price higher and still makes it worthwhile to sell them in guild traders for most players. And for anyone saying it makes tel-var worthless - you can buy them for gold right now - on guild traders. It wouldn't be much different except the market would be more controlled and gold would be getting removed from the economy instead of shifted around. You could do the same thing in cyro with stuff like potions, etc. As long as the price wasn't crazy low, then the value for selling them in guild traders would still be there. Plus there are still things that you can only buy with TV or AP or items that bind like the new armor, so those currencies would still have additional value there.

Frankly though, there is often a lot of pleading from pvp community for various unique rewards and the like and no one seems to notice things favor them. The only way to buy potions is either with AP or through a guild trader. The only way to buy various TV items is with TV or on a guild trader. But there are often various ways to get PvE items - they have a weekend vendor for undaunted sets and jewelry you can buy with AP - I don't see the IC undaunted sets on a weekend vendor for PvE players. You can buy every pve motif available in PvE in the traders or in the crown store (maybe a couple costumes you get from a quests?) -- I see a lot of unique costumes, style pages and motifs you can only buy with AP or TV (some can be resold in traders, but some are BoP). And this is part of the problem, there isn't much for us to spend gold on that goes into NPC vendors (i.e. removed from game) as most of it just gets moved from player to player, so outside of a few items players use personally - all AP and TV that is earned can also be converted into gold through guild traders and a lot of players don't think about that (and you earn a lot more AP now than you used to on top of that).

I think as it is right now - the only huge gold sink in the game is with housing and that is only hitting those that care about housing. And frankly, it's too lop sided IMO - they need to offer more variety of things we can spend gold on (and also enable housing mats to drop from surveys and maybe up the drop rate in general with the number of mats needed IMO for crafting - anyone into housing can feel almost punished by the game).

moleculardrugs

targario wrote: »

hey dear community,

as everyone knows there is a crazy amounts of gold inflation in the game and i want to talk why this is a bad thing for "casual players"(as zos proved that they care casuals more) and my suggestions to fix this.


inflation is bad for new and casual players because it will fear them, the millions of gold is need to get some new items or upgrading stuff. jewelry upgrading was pricey even before this infilation and now its way worse.

what can be done?

well, zos needs to add some mechanics or activities that should require some gold from the players.

Examples: (all below just random thoughs, and prices can be changed accordingly)

Upgrading should ask for some gold:
Blue to Purple, usual mats + 10k gold
Purple to Yellow, usual mats + 100k gold

Outfit system should require for more gold:
500 gold is now 5k
1k gold is now 10k
3k gold is now 30k

Transmutating should require more gold.


and obviously daily writs should give less money, or maybe less for multiple characters.


I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, and what other things could be done about this problem?

good days.

The simple solution is to increase mats yields from farming or to allow mobs to drop certain mats.

This game is not finite like our real world. They can make infinite amounts of resources which solves the problem of supply and demand.

The issue is finding the right price, which ZOS probably believes is the correct price for how much things are going as of now.

Gold gear should be endgame and should be high in price. You can play the game just fine with purple gear, which I have done. In PvP, you upgrade your weapon to gold and that is enough.

If you want to build a table, you can buy a furnishing plan for a couple million gold or you can just buy a simple table furnishing plan. I believe the market is stable as of now because it is the rarer end game items that cost a lot, not the purple colored gear that drops from overland or that can be crafted.

Reaver999

targario wrote: »

hey dear community,

as everyone knows there is a crazy amounts of gold inflation in the game and i want to talk why this is a bad thing for "casual players"(as zos proved that they care casuals more) and my suggestions to fix this.


inflation is bad for new and casual players because it will fear them, the millions of gold is need to get some new items or upgrading stuff. jewelry upgrading was pricey even before this infilation and now its way worse.

what can be done?

well, zos needs to add some mechanics or activities that should require some gold from the players.

Examples: (all below just random thoughs, and prices can be changed accordingly)

Upgrading should ask for some gold:
Blue to Purple, usual mats + 10k gold
Purple to Yellow, usual mats + 100k gold

Outfit system should require for more gold:
500 gold is now 5k
1k gold is now 10k
3k gold is now 30k

Transmutating should require more gold.


and obviously daily writs should give less money, or maybe less for multiple characters.


I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, and what other things could be done about this problem?

good days.

Will casual players be able to afford to upgrade gear and change outfit styles? This will take base game amenities away from the casual player who won't be able to afford them and not really impact players who run the market since they have obscene amounts of gold anyway. As someone who plays the economy, if I have to pay more for gold sinks I use all the time it will reflect in the prices I post items for. I see something like this causing more inflation. Making sellers in the economy pay more for things will only make them charge more. The hardcore sellers that run the market are not casual players and they dedicate a lot of time to collecting the goods and setting the rates. I think ZOS should do things that encourage more farming and selling to create more competition in the market because ultimately that is what drives the prices down. Prices on some gear, mats, motifs, etc..., drop dratically during events because of the flood of items in the market. When the supply outweighs the demand prices drop. But why wait for ZOS to do something? It is a player driven economy so a bulk of the power of inflation and deflation rests on how many players are participating in the economy, how they are participating, and to what extent.

joerginger

Casual players can farm mats like everybody else and get their upgrade mats from refining. In additon, are you talking about casual players or about endgame players who want to gets things cheaply? The former most likely wouldn't need the gear you are talking about.

zaria

Cardhwion wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

"There are plenty of opportunities to provide items to the market."

Sorry but this is the classic kind of statement you would expect to find on this forum that is actually very different from sentiments elsewhere.

No. There are two places where you can sell in ESO:

1. Through a guild store. And good luck if you don't intend to play more than weekly or have a casual play style because your guild will kick you when they decide to go big, which is not actually a very nice feeling for a casual player. It's actively alienating.

2. Through zone chat, which is plain annoying.

ESO courts casual players. There is nothing wrong with being a casual player, despite what some people here might think, and there is no sensible mechanism for casual players really to sell stuff in ESO. It is truly weird.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. I am a casual player, and I get very well along with my trading guild (over a year if time is a matter). It is not that hard, and does not eat that much time, if you know what you are doing. I could even cut down that time, if I was in a less prolific guild.

I don't think we need more gold sinks but there are some things that might entice players to spend more gold. Like buying 5 training points at the stable but for a higher price.

Its causal trading guilds and hardcore ones. I say Belkarth in Craglorn is probably the most professional, yes they are a bit high but not idiotic but even there on PC-EU its often an 30% difference on common bulk items.
Upgrade mats is more expensive because the sticker book make its much easier to make new gear.

Crown trade probably hurt housing as lots of the people selling 5K crowns do it for housing.
Its so much old money in this game, and yes this one has so much of it.
Now I assumed the guild trader change was mostly an way to break up the networks who worked so hard to keep the guild store rent prices low.
On the other hand once 25K dps qualified you an spot in vet dlc groups as in MOL
On the other hand Dro'mata chests sell easy for 1.5M, and the lesser stuff is 6-800K
https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?SearchType=Sell&ItemID=9453&ItemNamePattern=Crafting+Motif+35:+Dro-m'Athra+Chests
Farm it.
Yes that is another way to get rich, this one does not bother.
Never trust an drunk Khajiit

ZOS_Icy

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DarrowLykos

The fact that you have the buying and selling of crowns in game which involves real money, and right now everything is inflating in real life so it is going to effect in game as well. I've noticed since this whole "debacle" started a lot of the more popular items have slowly gone up in cost as well, most of which is crowns ratio. Don't worry though I'm sure someone is making bank off of this situation

DarrowLykos

Fhritz wrote: »

Since ESO economy is driven by player, this isn't an issue at all. yes, things cost more, but you can sell your own things for more too. So at the end it doesn't change anything at all i guess.

This may work for those who have a solid system in place and can continue to generate funds and have certain things for sale but, this mimics the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. The new player cannot just jump into this pattern in the game without really putting in many hours. At that point when does it stop being a game and turn into work? This can turn a lot away from actually giving it a shot. I have noticed this over the past decade that a lot of these MMOs have become a struggle to make it and that resembles real life a little too much for some. What they need to do and some games have tried but never seem to put much effort into is make it so not only the company themselves are all who profits from having a real life economy in game. If you are going to make the game like an actual job to make your money then you should be able to also profit from this right ?

dvonpm

It seems like trader bids are a very efficient gold sink.

Those of you with more gold than you know what to spend it on can deposit your millions in your guild banks and we will sink it for you on the massive bids we need weekly....instead of having to wheedle it out of people a few k at a time with raffles and auctions that require several people working unpaid part time jobs to manage.

Then casuals don't need to pay dues at all. This is a win for everyone don't even try to tell me it's not 😆

Lumsdenml

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

Pc market has inflation, console market is stable

Pc has add ones, consoles don't have add ones

So now tell me what is causing inflation on pc? You give me the answer

More players

Runefang

Quite amusing to see real life perspectives show up here. From the “it’s not a problem because it’s not a problem for me” group to the “I earned my gold so others can too” group and the “there are systemic problems with the games governance so I can’t do it” group.

Maybe there is a middle ground? Admit it can be made better and try for that.

wolfie1.0.

Runefang wrote: »

Quite amusing to see real life perspectives show up here. From the “it’s not a problem because it’s not a problem for me” group to the “I earned my gold so others can too” group and the “there are systemic problems with the games governance so I can’t do it” group.

Maybe there is a middle ground? Admit it can be made better and try for that.

Considering all of the issues on PC NA this week a complete server reset to scratch is a viable option. Wipe everything...

Amottica

joerginger wrote: »

Casual players can farm mats like everybody else and get their upgrade mats from refining. In additon, are you talking about casual players or about endgame players who want to gets things cheaply? The former most likely wouldn't need the gear you are talking about.

True. It is very easy to farm.

The reason the prices are high for certain items is more people are willing to pay the price than willing to do the farming. It is a choice.

PlagueSD

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

More gold sinks yes but as mentioned, now charging for upgrading your armor would hurt the new players much more than the ones who play for a longer time.
You could see millions and millions of gold disappear from the game if ZOS would add an option to exchange gold for crowns.That would make a difference because just adding a few minor gold sinks here and there won't have much if any impact.

yeah, but buying crowns with gold doesn't line ZOS's pockets with $$$$ so that'll never happen.

Leftover_Pizza

The easiest way to make stuff cheaper is to raise the droprates and ways to obtain them.

DarrowLykos

It may be easy for "some" to farm. It's not about the physical aspect of going out and doing it, it's the overly massive amount of time it takes to do so. There is no casual farming for anything and making a decent living in this game. It all takes a lot of time and well most don't have that luxury but still would like to enjoy the game. Raising drop rates doesn't always work so well either, then if there is too much of something it becomes worth nothing and then what do you have but fodder. This can also cause a crash in the system. A happy medium would be nice and I have seen it from time to time in the game. Inflation is going to be affected by real world inflation. Just follow the pattern over the last 2 years. Being able to buy and sell crowns will have this affect.

thorwyn

1. A central auction house would not help anyone except the super rich players who are playing the trading game. It would make the life of these people A LOT easier because they could just stand in one place hitting the F5 button and picking up every item instantly instead of wasting their time looking at loading screens while porting around. (btw someone mentioned anxiety!? Really? There are people in ESO who are afraid of travelling around?)

2. Introducing additional fees for ingame features such as upgrading would hurt players with smaller amounts of gold a lot more than the rich people. If your assets are 500k, then 100k is a lot. If you have 50 million, 100k is nothing.

3. New players don't need anything from the guild stores to play. Gear and consumables can be picked up either by drops or login rewards. New players dont need to buy or upgrade anything. By the time when upgrading their equipment to gold is worth thinking about, they have long passed the "new player" status. The new player argument is a straw man.

4. If we really think that there is too much gold in the game (which I agree with to an extend), then we need to find new and better ways to motivate players to actually spend their gold instead of hoarding it. And by spending gold I don't mean buy something from the guild store, because that doesn't significantly reduce the total amount of gold. The gold remains in the system. What we need is additional things to buy from the game. Maybe a complete overhaul of the luxury furniture items (not repeating the yearly cycle and adding 1 new item every week), additional cosmetics, skins, homes.. whatever.

alberichtano

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

With regards to prices at guild traders, this is not inflation. Inflation isn't something that just happens. In real world there are motivating factors. The only things that are driving up prices at the guild traders are rarity and greed. If these items were more common, they would be farmed into oblivion and prices would drop drastically. We see it often during events with common items. Eventually they become garbage and no one wants them because they have 50 of them in their inventory already, why would they want another one?

Shop at the out of the way guild traders. My guild trader offers items for fair prices, but we're not in convenient, busy locations like Deshaan, Elden Root, Wayrest or Alinor. You know who shops at our guild trader? Resellers. I know this because when I look at my sales, I see the same guy has bought the exact same motif from me 4 or 5 times.

I was thinking in similar terms. If we want inflation to go down, we need to get the grind down, which would mean that ZOS would have to pull down the grind-level on farming rare materials and motifs. This, however, is not likely to happen I think. For some reason MMOs are seen as equal to grinding for some reason.

DarrowLykos

I just want to point out I like the Tool lyrics

alberichtano

Runefang wrote: »

Quite amusing to see real life perspectives show up here. From the “it’s not a problem because it’s not a problem for me” group to the “I earned my gold so others can too” group and the “there are systemic problems with the games governance so I can’t do it” group.

Maybe there is a middle ground? Admit it can be made better and try for that.

QFT.

Ragnarok0130

targario wrote: »

hey dear community,

as everyone knows there is a crazy amounts of gold inflation in the game and i want to talk why this is a bad thing for "casual players"(as zos proved that they care casuals more) and my suggestions to fix this.


inflation is bad for new and casual players because it will fear them, the millions of gold is need to get some new items or upgrading stuff. jewelry upgrading was pricey even before this infilation and now its way worse.

what can be done?

well, zos needs to add some mechanics or activities that should require some gold from the players.

Examples: (all below just random thoughs, and prices can be changed accordingly)

Upgrading should ask for some gold:
Blue to Purple, usual mats + 10k gold
Purple to Yellow, usual mats + 100k gold

Outfit system should require for more gold:
500 gold is now 5k
1k gold is now 10k
3k gold is now 30k

Transmutating should require more gold.


and obviously daily writs should give less money, or maybe less for multiple characters.


I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, and what other things could be done about this problem?

good days.

I think being able to "de-morph" a single skill should 1. be a thing (maybe I like my build but not a specific single skill morph) 2. done for gold in order to implement a new gold sink. I disagree about jacking up gold prices for existing gold based abilities like outfit changes just add new gold sinks.

Northwold

At base, a large chunk of the problem lies with the fact that ESO has selling mechanics that certain players really do not like and will not engage with.

You can say "nonsense," you can say "well that's your problem", you can say "I'm fine therefore it is not a problem". But such comments are completely meaningless. They're about you. Not the players who are having problems. And you are not all players.

A very significant slice of the player base is solo players. A very significant slice of those players does not want to engage with guilds. That is the playerbase, whether you like it or not. They aren't "lazy", or "entitled", they just don't like the same mechanics as you.

And, no, they are not playing the wrong game. ESO has been pitched for both solo and social play. That is the game. If it didn't work at all solo, then that playerbase would not continue to come back.

For those players who will not use the selling mechanics as they are in the game, inflation exists. To claim it doesn't is simply ridiculous. And it is an increasing problem that is making the game less and less attractive to play.

There are multiple ways in which this can be addressed that don't offend the purists (or that would not offend the purists if people weren't so intent, in some cases, on having a fit over any change whatever for no reason). They include changes to drop rates for certain items, to furnishing plans, looking at quest rewards, looking at the in-world value of items sold to merchants.

Gold sinks on their own probably aren't enough and, yes, some gold sinks will make the new player experience more difficult.

But there is a problem. And the posters who repeat time and again that it is a non-issue and other people just need to play the game their way need to look beyond their own experience because they are simply not credible and are talking to themselves. This is a game that depends on all sorts of players to keep going. It won't last long if the subscriber base consists of players in your image alone.

Arthtur

ESO is an MMO not a single player game. If ppl are refusing to join guilds its their decision but they cant excpect having benefis that guild offers. And ppl have to understand this fact because... If we "remove" this "inflation" the economy will be dead.
There is no way to bring prices so low that gold from mobs is enough for living. Its just impossible. U would have to wipe servers every few years so everyone would start from the start.
Also u can trade without guilds.
But yea, if you are refusing taking part in this its your decision and you are suffering from consequences.

If those players are playing single player game why they even need gold? Sorry but look at this in this way: those players are adding "demand" on stuff because They need it while not adding anything to the "supply" as They refuse to trade. Its not healthy in MMO. If u buy stuff from guilds then u should join them and seel some stuff too. If u dont wanna join because u want single player game - dont buy anything from traders and farm everything yourself.

"Inflation" is a normal thing in MMO. In small scale or high after some time farming gold from mobs just isn't enough as trading become more important. Just because somebody doesnt like the price of the time of diffrent ppl doesnt mean he is right.

And if this still isn't obvious: making something more common so it easier to drop for some ppl will affect everyone. If we double the chances on dropping Dreugh Wax so person B can have 20 instead of 10 it will affect person A who will have 200 instead of 100 as he plays everyday. Do u see the problem or still no? Any single change that will make farming easier for those single players will affect everybody and could even destroy the market.

While higher supply usualy means lower prices u need to engage in the market in order to take part in this. Increasing supply because someone doesnt want to engage is just...
There is no way to make single players able to get everything for gold from mobs without making all of the items worthless like style pages from events. Of course at this point trading would be just dead.