AwA blues

$spacefracking$ · March 2022

I miss them... and so many other people do too. Idk if microsoft demanded this, or it was a management idea, but the amount of thought put into how it would affect the game for long time players is very disappointing.

Very rarely are things rolled back, but if I could wish for one change made in this game to be reverted, this would be it.

Unknown_Redemption · March 2022

I absolutely love the change. Ive been casually playing since launch and now all of my efforts are easily seen.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail · March 2022

I am thankful for the change, and no longer feel constricted to investing in a class just because of sheer momentum and time behind it

newtinmpls · March 2022

I dislike it intensely.

TES has always been about individual character effort.

Xebov · March 2022

I love the change. Its something i have waited for years to finally happen. I understand however that not everyone is happy. It now just has turned upside down.

spacefracking wrote: »

I miss them... and so many other people do too. Idk if microsoft demanded this, or it was a management idea, but the amount of thought put into how it would affect the game for long time players is very disappointing.

Very rarely are things rolled back, but if I could wish for one change made in this game to be reverted, this would be it.

Speaking as someone working in Software i can tell you that it was likely the idea of the techs behind it. They need to get the Database in a betetr shape and Hardware only gets you so far, so they likely suggested to find ways to reduce the Database load by dumping data out. Given how much Achievments tehre are this change could eailsy save TBs of data.

dzugarueb17_ESO · March 2022

Xebov wrote: »

it was likely the idea of the techs behind it

I can't imagine a single gamedev programmer, that can be ok with game world utterly broken the way it is because of the AwA patch. We've discussed this in my small work circle, and everyone pretty much agreed that they'd work day and night decoupling achievements from quests and interactions. Precisely because this wrong thing cannot be rolled back. But they didn't do it. Small part of hope in the future of gamedev died inside me again (last time the thing was Cyberpunk).

It's management, it is always management.

Jaraal · March 2022

Yes, ESO has now become the first TES game you can't replay from scratch with a new character. They should drastically lower the cost of all new content from here on, as the replay value is severely diminished.

I won't be buying High Isle, because the price is too high for a chapter you can only play fully one time. Tamriel Once is not the game I signed up to play years ago. And I don't appreciate the thousands of hours I have invested in my alts and the achievements they earned the hard way being sacrificed to make room for a card game I won't be playing.

Xebov wrote: »

Speaking as someone working in Software i can tell you that it was likely the idea of the techs behind it. They need to get the Database in a betetr shape and Hardware only gets you so far, so they likely suggested to find ways to reduce the Database load by dumping data out. Given how much Achievments tehre are this change could eailsy save TBs of data.

Which leads to the question: what else will they be taking away from us in the future to create data space for new content to sell us? It's like they are selling us content with one hand, but taking it away with the other. Doesn't sound like a sustainable business model to me. People will get tired of it and go elsewhere.

Kesstryl · March 2022

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

it was likely the idea of the techs behind it

I can't imagine a single gamedev programmer, that can be ok with game world utterly broken the way it is because of the AwA patch. We've discussed this in my small work circle, and everyone pretty much agreed that they'd work day and night decoupling achievements from quests and interactions. Precisely because this wrong thing cannot be rolled back. But they didn't do it. Small part of hope in the future of gamedev died inside me again (last time the thing was Cyberpunk).

It's management, it is always management.

^^ THIS!

Larcomar · March 2022

I get that there's a group of players who clearly feel very strongly about this but, personally, I love it - and, from what I can tell from talking to friends and guildies in game, that's a fairly widely shared view.

People were irritated at some of the issues it created when it dropped - esp skyshards - but, overall, AWA seems pretty popular. And I think those issues are - gradually - getting sorted.

I sympathise with the people who feel that this has interfered with the way they play the game. And I can certainly get behind some kind of toggle so they everyone can play the way they want. But, I slightly worry when I hear words like roll back / reversion bandied around. Can we just recognise that, while some peopel hate this, a lot of people like it. And asked for it. And they'd like to play the way they want to as well...

RevJJ · March 2022

Larcomar wrote: »

I get that there's a group of players who clearly feel very strongly about this but, personally, I love it - and, from what I can tell from talking to friends and guildies in game, that's a fairly widely shared view.

People were irritated at some of the issues it created when it dropped - esp skyshards - but, overall, AWA seems pretty popular. And I think those issues are - gradually - getting sorted.

I sympathise with the people who feel that this has interfered with the way they play the game. And I can certainly get behind some kind of toggle so they everyone can play the way they want. But, I slightly worry when I hear words like roll back / reversion bandied around. Can we just recognise that, while some peopel hate this, a lot of people like it. And asked for it. And they'd like to play the way they want to as well...

Most of the people who are asking for a reversion or roll back are not asking for AWA to be removed and never to be brought back. Just for it to be rolled back until hey have fixed the way it has been implemented so that it doesn’t break several aspects of the game. I’m not against AWA at all. But I hate the way it has been sledgehammered in (which is unfortunately the way ZOS usually approaches things).

peacenote · March 2022

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am thankful for the change, and no longer feel constricted to investing in a class just because of sheer momentum and time behind it

It is funny. I feel the exact opposite. I now feel like I don't have the freedom to use my other alts as I did before lest I accidently do an achievement once (the only time it can ever be done) on the "wrong" character. Or trigger a rollup achievement on a mule by killing that last zombie or whatever by mistake not knowing I only have one left.

I also feel like I only have one chance to do anything and unless I'm totally focused on the game and can memorize it forever I shouldn't play as I might accidentally click too quickly through a quest line and never trigger it again because it is one that checks achievements.

It's awful and it does make me really sad. In fact I am kind of afraid of doing anything in the game at all because I might wreck a future experience. And you can't even start over ("new game") without making a new account.

I advocated strongly for the implementation to be improved because I felt it was bad for the future of the game and that a lot of people didn’t see the big picture, like how "you did it!" pop ups keep people engaged even if they don't realize it. But I didn't expect to feel so paralyzed personally into not playing once it rolled out.

peacenote · March 2022

Xebov wrote: »

I love the change. Its something i have waited for years to finally happen. I understand however that not everyone is happy. It now just has turned upside down.

Speaking as someone working in Software i can tell you that it was likely the idea of the techs behind it. They need to get the Database in a betetr shape and Hardware only gets you so far, so they likely suggested to find ways to reduce the Database load by dumping data out. Given how much Achievments tehre are this change could eailsy save TBs of data.

Yea the difference is, before, everyone was playing the game together, and there was the option for both play styles to exist. People could choose to have a main, people could choose to play with different characters and curate achievements or not worry about achievements, and PC even had add-ons where you could look at account vs character. Now choice has been taken away, and some dedicated customers have quit over this. People asked for AwA but most didn't quit because it didn't exist. It feels more like a lobotomy than it just being flipped upside down.

As far as the database goes, it is driving me NUTS they keep adding in formulaic achievements after admitting this was a problem. Why is there an achievement for stepping foot into a dungeon for the first time? Frivolous achievements that don't really require any skill or intent should be phased out so that the database doesn't get too big too fast again (if that is indeed a problem). Can we NOT just immediately re-make the problem again with the drop of new content??!??

I want people to get their AwA but I too would prefer to see this rolled back and done properly... NOT eliminated/reversed forever. Especially since I've barely been able to log in since the patch dropped anyway. Roll it back and, while you're fixing AwA, fix whatever is causing these other issues too!

Kiralyn2000 · March 2022

As someone who plays lots of alts in different ways, and just honestly can not comprehend the "I couldn't play other characters, because I might miss an achievement on my main" viewpoint, I'm very much not a fan.

The fact that it screws up so much recordkeeping and organization is annoying to no end. It was really nice having my characters be separate.

Remathilis · March 2022

Imho, it doesn't go far enough.

I never go shopping on any character but my main for recipes and motifs. I have no way of knowing if I own a piece on my crafter/main and I'm not wasting gold on alts. Likewise, I'm really hoping I can complete one of the monster treasure quests when this happens; I get annoyed when my alt gets a treasure that doesn't help get me the elusive "common" dyes.

alberichtano · March 2022

peacenote wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

I love the change. Its something i have waited for years to finally happen. I understand however that not everyone is happy. It now just has turned upside down.

Speaking as someone working in Software i can tell you that it was likely the idea of the techs behind it. They need to get the Database in a betetr shape and Hardware only gets you so far, so they likely suggested to find ways to reduce the Database load by dumping data out. Given how much Achievments tehre are this change could eailsy save TBs of data.

Yea the difference is, before, everyone was playing the game together, and there was the option for both play styles to exist. People could choose to have a main, people could choose to play with different characters and curate achievements or not worry about achievements, and PC even had add-ons where you could look at account vs character. Now choice has been taken away, and some dedicated customers have quit over this. People asked for AwA but most didn't quit because it didn't exist. It feels more like a lobotomy than it just being flipped upside down.

As far as the database goes, it is driving me NUTS they keep adding in formulaic achievements after admitting this was a problem. Why is there an achievement for stepping foot into a dungeon for the first time? Frivolous achievements that don't really require any skill or intent should be phased out so that the database doesn't get too big too fast again (if that is indeed a problem). Can we NOT just immediately re-make the problem again with the drop of new content??!??

I want people to get their AwA but I too would prefer to see this rolled back and done properly... NOT eliminated/reversed forever. Especially since I've barely been able to log in since the patch dropped anyway. Roll it back and, while you're fixing AwA, fix whatever is causing these other issues too!

Extremely much this! As you say - one would expect that if they solve a problem they would not make it worse by adding more of what was taken away. It almost feels like congratulating a sobering alcoholic with booze.

EF321 · March 2022

Love this change, I'd hate to be called Master Bast Harvester for 18th time. I've collected enough bast for two lifetimes already.

peacenote · March 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

Imho, it doesn't go far enough.

I never go shopping on any character but my main for recipes and motifs. I have no way of knowing if I own a piece on my crafter/main and I'm not wasting gold on alts. Likewise, I'm really hoping I can complete one of the monster treasure quests when this happens; I get annoyed when my alt gets a treasure that doesn't help get me the elusive "common" dyes.

Fwiw I agree with both of these points. I felt they should have fixed shopping and I think, given that we now have style pages and Stickerbook, it makes no sense for motifs to be character specific. And I felt they should have added an overview to the character views and have rollup achievements trigger based on the account wide view, not the character one. I just wanted them to LEAVE the character data so my records were there, no quests were broken, and I could re-play from scratch if I wanted.

ALL the grinds I actually would have liked removed with AwA we did not get. We just lost the "grind" for achievement points per character which mattered not at all because they aren't currency and they in and of themselves trigger no rewards. And titles, which could have been made account wide without removing character data.

EnerG · March 2022

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

I absolutely love the change. Ive been casually playing since launch and now all of my efforts are easily seen.

Same. This ^ Ive been asking for awa.

Aztrias · March 2022

I wish it was more like wow, even though achievement's are account-wide, they are still tracked separately whatever a character have earned or not earned said achievement, if a character have not earned the achievement the name of the first character who earned it will be displayed, but when a new character unlock the achievement their name and the date they unlocked the achievement will be displayed.

Instead in ESO once one character have "earned" the achievement it will forever be tied to that character and other character's can never earn that achievement.

Aztrias · March 2022

At first I was optimistic about AWA, because I was thinking it would be like in Swtor or WoW... not this mess.

xXSilverDragonXx · March 2022

While I personally don't mind the idea of this change, I recognize that this sucks for many who like to get achievements on all toons, and that it feels like they wasted time or like there is no point bothering with other toons. So I am capable of empathizing with them, that this really ruins their playstyle.

And while I did not mind the idea of the change, I find the change has caused some rather annoying issues, mainly when you are on any toon that has not done stuff that was already achieved, and you are looking at the map. Having my maps completely borked is not desirable. Now I cannot look at my map and know where I need to go and what I need to do without having to waste more time hovering over things to make sure that is the case. Or having to read each bit of the legend. Having to look things up and track them and double check them when before I just looked at a map and knew? What a terrible change and not an upgrade or QOL improvement in anyway for anyone who likes to look at their maps and know what they need to do without reading legends and taking notes and memorizing what they did on every single toon. That is a serious drag.

And for me, I can no longer play how I like. I have to do things from start to finish or waste time going back and checking what I did repeatedly like. For example, getting shards and questing while waiting for the dungeon queue to pop. Well, once I get into that dungeon, I better remember exactly what I had done, which shards I had collected. And if I want to switch toons after that and do the same to get all my dungeons, I better take notes I guess. Because I might forget which of my many toons was doing what when I went into the dungeon or what they had done until that point. I better get a Toon notebook to track all these things so I don't have to log in and then waste more time staring at an incorrect map and then rereading all the legend notes and hovering over the maps to figure out what I did, because my toon won't even be in the same place. It will be in vvardenfell doing writs before or after dungeons or picking up pledges in the main cities. Before, I only needed to remember the zone I was in, go there and look at the map. Doing this across multiple toons? God save me.

ArchangelIsraphel · March 2022

peacenote wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

I love the change. Its something i have waited for years to finally happen. I understand however that not everyone is happy. It now just has turned upside down.

Speaking as someone working in Software i can tell you that it was likely the idea of the techs behind it. They need to get the Database in a betetr shape and Hardware only gets you so far, so they likely suggested to find ways to reduce the Database load by dumping data out. Given how much Achievments tehre are this change could eailsy save TBs of data.

Yea the difference is, before, everyone was playing the game together, and there was the option for both play styles to exist. People could choose to have a main, people could choose to play with different characters and curate achievements or not worry about achievements, and PC even had add-ons where you could look at account vs character. Now choice has been taken away, and some dedicated customers have quit over this. People asked for AwA but most didn't quit because it didn't exist. It feels more like a lobotomy than it just being flipped upside down.

As far as the database goes, it is driving me NUTS they keep adding in formulaic achievements after admitting this was a problem. Why is there an achievement for stepping foot into a dungeon for the first time? Frivolous achievements that don't really require any skill or intent should be phased out so that the database doesn't get too big too fast again (if that is indeed a problem). Can we NOT just immediately re-make the problem again with the drop of new content??!??

I want people to get their AwA but I too would prefer to see this rolled back and done properly... NOT eliminated/reversed forever. Especially since I've barely been able to log in since the patch dropped anyway. Roll it back and, while you're fixing AwA, fix whatever is causing these other issues too!

Agree completely. I feel the same exact way about playing my alts. Now, if I want the achievements for a play through to all be credited to a single character, I cannot even set foot in a new zone on an alt lest they trigger something inadvertently. The entire thing is an absolute mess. Not only that I feel I must pick and choose which of my characters I will be playing when I do the content, when before, I didn't have to because I could document their journeys independently.

People feel like they have all this new content to do because they can "finally play their alts". I have nothing against those people, I'm glad that they get to have their playstyle and enjoy the game.

Thing is, if you've actually been doing these things all along, you can't feel this way yourself. I've got nothing to do because I was playing and doing achievements the whole time. A good number of them are now complete on my account. Replayability is shot in the foot for me with the exception of certain achievements I'm still working on. But now there is no repeating small, relaxing goals like master fisher on my alts or other such exploration goals which I personally found enjoyable to do again.

To me it was a way to document the independent journey of my character and the choices I was making for them. That type of gameplay is now gone.

I am not touching questing right now in the hopes that some of the glitches and unpleasant side effects of AWA are resolved.

Had they listened to the feedback thread and implemented this properly as it's done in other AAA MMORPG'S like Guild Wars and WoW, I would be far less upset as most of my playstyle would be preserved.

In all honesty, they had the chance to outdo these MMO's by providing a more robust system that would not only allow those who wanted AWA to play their way, but they could have provided to the roleplay aspect of the game as well that the Elder Scrolls series is renowned for. By giving us a detailed character journal that could be made highly personal by the player to encourage storytelling rather than treating it like it doesn't matter, they had the opportunity to make the system shine.

Instead they failed on all marks. The AWA system isn't even good at being an AWA system because it provides little convenience and introduces countless new frustrations we never had before.

I don't believe for a minute this was ever about performance, either. Because if it was...wouldn't you also make sure the whole thing actually performs FUNCTIONALLY for the player as well?

I hope whatever "god" is sitting on high counting little bytes of data on their fingers is happy with themselves.

Like I said before in other threads, I feel like I'm playing one of those cheap, throwaway cash grab games in its beta testing phase before all the bugs have been worked out, not a polished update in an AAA MMO. Every time I go to a new zone, seeing and hearing the world around me in a completed state on an alt because a main did it is like being back in college and finding your roommates junk all over your floor. Just that in ESO, I have no way to chuck it back on their side =_=

PvP_Exploiter · March 2022

The only negative for AWA is that there's no incentive doing trial trifectas multiple times, which further reduces the end game player base.

tmbrinks · March 2022

So, from what I've seen, those in favor of AwA wanted:
1. A way of tracking their progress on their entire account
2. Account-wide titles
3. Ability to purchase achievement furnishings on any character
4. The ability to combine some of the grindy achievements.

These ALL could have been done without the removal of the individualization of our characters.

Now, me personally, I didn't want account-wide titles, it was one of the few rewards end-game still got, to be able to earn that title on a new character, a new role, a new class. But, whatever, I would have been okay with still having the ability to get the achievement on that character and to have a record to show it in game (even if it was just for me in my game window)

Those of you who are just posting "I'm so happy with this..." are missing the point. You could have gotten EVERYTHING you wanted but without those who wanted to track the individualization of our characters "losing" so much of how and why they play the game.

We are genuinely happy that you got what you wanted, it's sad to see that many of you couldn't care less about how much the rest of us lost.

danno8 · March 2022

"Jaraal wrote: »

Which leads to the question: what else will they be taking away from us in the future to create data space...

If I were to guess, craft bag lists, food/drink ingredient lists, recipe lists.

Why have grapes, apples and oranges when you can have "Drink Ingredient Level 1" or wheat, fish and game when you can just have "Food Ingredient Level 1"

Why have so many recipes that do basically the same thing?

And those craft bag lists must be getting absolutely huge in the database...

ArchangelIsraphel · March 2022

danno8 wrote: »

"Jaraal wrote: »

Which leads to the question: what else will they be taking away from us in the future to create data space...

If I were to guess, craft bag lists, food/drink ingredient lists, recipe lists.

Why have grapes, apples and oranges when you can have "Drink Ingredient Level 1" or wheat, fish and game when you can just have "Food Ingredient Level 1"

Why have so many recipes that do basically the same thing?

And those craft bag lists must be getting absolutely huge in the database...

I doubt they'll nerf that because the artificial inconvenience of having so many craft items has been purposely created in order to sell ESO+ and the craft bag. With less crafting items, there's less incentive to get ESO+ purely for the bag because they then become easier to store. Our character data was likely seen as expendable because they cant charge us a rental fee to hold it.

LostHorizon1933 · March 2022

I keep checking in this thread hoping for some actual blues::

Woke up this morning, walking by the delve
Woke up this morning, walking by the delve
Says it’s completed, did I do it myself?

Zyva · March 2022

LostHorizon1933 wrote: »

I keep checking in this thread hoping for some actual blues::

Woke up this morning, walking by the delve
Woke up this morning, walking by the delve
Says it’s completed, did I do it myself?

i got what i came for now, thank you XD XD

Necrotech_Master · March 2022

peacenote wrote: »

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am thankful for the change, and no longer feel constricted to investing in a class just because of sheer momentum and time behind it

It is funny. I feel the exact opposite. I now feel like I don't have the freedom to use my other alts as I did before lest I accidently do an achievement once (the only time it can ever be done) on the "wrong" character. Or trigger a rollup achievement on a mule by killing that last zombie or whatever by mistake not knowing I only have one left.

I also feel like I only have one chance to do anything and unless I'm totally focused on the game and can memorize it forever I shouldn't play as I might accidentally click too quickly through a quest line and never trigger it again because it is one that checks achievements.

It's awful and it does make me really sad. In fact I am kind of afraid of doing anything in the game at all because I might wreck a future experience. And you can't even start over ("new game") without making a new account.

I advocated strongly for the implementation to be improved because I felt it was bad for the future of the game and that a lot of people didn’t see the big picture, like how "you did it!" pop ups keep people engaged even if they don't realize it. But I didn't expect to feel so paralyzed personally into not playing once it rolled out.

i would also say i am in the boat of "i like AWA because i dont feel like im forced to play my main for achievements"

will i still do new content with my main first? absolutely, will i be forced to run my main to farm for achievements in vet dungeons (stuff like slayer achievements, i do dungeons with all my toons, so having their progress not counted globally made me feel it was kind of a wasted effort as far as the achievement went)

with the AWA i unlocked between 3-4 different achievements for "running both dungeons of a DLC on vet" because i had many instances i ran the dungeons on different toons (falkreath hold + bloodroot forge on vet to get achievement for example, this particular one i finished before AWA, but i unlocked at least 3-4 of the others after logging in all my toons to get the dyes)

i also finished at least 6 slayer achievements for the non dlc dungeons due to the combined progress

i do feel that the "earned by" tooltip is completely unnecessary and actually got an addon to hide that because it is pointless (although this should not require an addon, but should be a toggle option built into the game)

Stanx · March 2022

It's not live on XBOX yet but overall, I don't hate the change as I'm an alt'oholic.

I do think that the execution has been very poor, though. Zone maps seem to have been totally messed up with the change and I am not looking forward to True Style Master becoming meaningless after spending so much gold and time on it.

I know there are a number of other issues raised in this thread and the others (including PTS), so it's more like I'm a bit irritated at how tone-deaf ZOS can be ignoring players, after asking them to test changes for free and feedback. Feels like a farcical process.

zaria · March 2022

Xebov wrote: »

I love the change. Its something i have waited for years to finally happen. I understand however that not everyone is happy. It now just has turned upside down.

spacefracking wrote: »

I miss them... and so many other people do too. Idk if microsoft demanded this, or it was a management idea, but the amount of thought put into how it would affect the game for long time players is very disappointing.

Very rarely are things rolled back, but if I could wish for one change made in this game to be reverted, this would be it.

Speaking as someone working in Software i can tell you that it was likely the idea of the techs behind it. They need to get the Database in a betetr shape and Hardware only gets you so far, so they likely suggested to find ways to reduce the Database load by dumping data out. Given how much Achievments tehre are this change could eailsy save TBs of data.

I like it and have not seen any issues so far outside of broken mods.
And it might have an performance benefit in character loading, they log everything we do anyway to know that people is doing. Right now is the new dungeons and grinding the monster trophy's as they now seems plausible to get.
Not gotten weird npc reactions for stuff the character has not done.

Yes its an crunching blow for people liking to get achievements on different alts, but I always seen my alts as an family or tribe working together.

And yes its bug level stuff like how you get master crafter if one has researcher all the traits (takes 11 months) and have 50 styles on their alts.
Titles: I tend to use clan mother as title anyway

But my main did get master angler and kept it.
But RIP the guy with 18 master anglers

so see both sides here.