A proposed shake of Green Tree

Olauron · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The serious competition has absolutely zero bearing on these passives because they will always have them slotted by default. Only a fool would farm housing mats for hours without homemaker.

So when do these actually function as slottables? And not just something you have on all the time. When you're NOT engaged in serious competition. When you see a node on your way to walking into cloudrest because you're tired of crashing while walking in. When you're a new player who simply don't have it yet and can't do much to compete on the market yet. When you're listening to Razum-dar tell you about the Yahgra and spot that shiny chest behind him.

THAT is when these things being slottable become micromanagement. And those things have little connection to serious competition. Having them avaiable when you're not being competitive just prevents micromanagement, resentment and constant UI engagement and instead makes way for actual gameplay.

I don't find it useful to make a distinction between serious (with exams and such) and not serious competition. Either way there is competition. Either way there should be a meaningful choice of slottables. Either way you should not be able to have everything. A person engaged in a serious competition should choose details for his current activity, a person casually changing activities should choose activities and details (the more activities, the less details, as the number of slots is constant). That is normal, that is OK, that is expected, but when and only when micromanagement will make things worse, not better (good example will be trying to get treasure chest star when the chest is taken by another player).

What is not really normal for horizontal progression is when micromanagement makes things better (the best examples are deconstructing and repairing). And the main problem is not the result (I have to micromanage, the horror), but the reason (there is no choice, no conflicting star for this micromanaged star).

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Olauron wrote: »

I don't find it useful to make a distinction between serious (with exams and such) and not serious competition.

Just as there should be a distinction between vet trials and base game normals, and those distinctions must be and ARE accounted for when the blue and red tree's slottables were decided, the same is true for crafting.

The actual fact of the matter is that these represent entirely different gameplay styles and have different gameplay needs. ZOS made the things that make base game stuff comfortable and not frustrating to do passive and left stuff that effects serious parsing and content differences as active.

Because of this, everyone can spec to make to their specific gameplay style better and then switch infrequently when they do other things. And it shouldn't be any different with crafting. There should be a basic level of comfort everyone should get when they have enough cp, and then they can make choices on unique and active stuff that represents their most common farming activities.

Beyond that, even in the real world there is a difference between real market competiiton and not. The law doesn't put the same burdens on a kid's lemonade stand as they do on Amazon.

That you don't distinguish between these things and claim it's all competition is frankly not only bad game design but makes zero sense to me.

If you refuse to take into account how people actually play the game because you see literally everything as competition that must be made difficult, you will never be able to offer meaningful solutions to micromanagement. And instead, make people quit the game because they are bogged down in micromanagement.

This stuff is already disrupting gameplay. And it's already making people mad enough to make threads. It's already an issue. Let's actually design this stuff in the way people actually play the game and not just pretend every activity is the same exact thing.

Olauron · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

I don't find it useful to make a distinction between serious (with exams and such) and not serious competition.

Just as there should be a distinction between vet trials and base game normals, and those distinctions must be and ARE accounted for when the blue and red tree's slottables were decided, the same is true for crafting.

The actual fact of the matter is that these represent entirely different gameplay styles and have different gameplay needs. ZOS made the things that make base game stuff comfortable and not frustrating to do passive and left stuff that effects serious parsing and content differences as active.

Because of this, everyone can spec to make to their specific gameplay style better and then switch infrequently when they do other things. And it shouldn't be any different with crafting. There should be a basic level of comfort everyone should get when they have enough cp, and then they can make choices on unique and active stuff that represents their most common farming activities.

Beyond that, even in the real world there is a difference between real market competiiton and not. The law doesn't put the same burdens on a kid's lemonade stand as they do on Amazon.

That you don't distinguish between these things and claim it's all competition is frankly not only bad game design but makes zero sense to me.

If you refuse to take into account how people actually play the game because you see literally everything as competition that must be made difficult, you will never be able to offer meaningful solutions to micromanagement. And instead, make people quit the game because they are bogged down in micromanagement.

This stuff is already disrupting gameplay. And it's already making people mad enough to make threads. It's already an issue. Let's actually design this stuff in the way people actually play the game and not just pretend every activity is the same exact thing.

I can't agree that passives are for easier (less demanding) activities and slottables are for harder (more demanding) activities. At first you have access to both. Any player starts with passives in the constellation and slottables outside constellation. From this point you fill out the stages and move along the edges. You have slottables right after the starting passives (the whole crit hat, for example, and others in all the constellations). After the initial passives and slottables you can select both passives and slottables depending on what you want and where you want to go along the edges. The only restriction is you can't have more than 4 slottables at the same time, and when you are at low CP, it is more profitable to finish the ones you like than to tip 10 different. "Late" stars are the stars far from initial and you can find both passives and slottables among them. Overall, passives and slottables are equally obtainable at low CP, medium CP and high CP (the more CP you have, the more you can get - more passives and more slottables).

I don't distinguish between seriousness of activity, because there should be no difference on a conceptual level, only the difference in depth. The same way as you have farmers and thieves, you also have healers, tanks and DDs, as well as those who play solo and need all three (casually or in arenas). Just as with the green constellation, in the blue constellation the serious players will choose details in their speciality, while solo players will choose type of the star first ("activity" in the green constellation), and detail later.

I highly doubt that any "casual" player with many activities one after another will think to quit just because he will feel forced to place Plentiful harvest before every node and Steed's blessing after every node instead. He will just take one or another and forget about it. Those who quit are already wwant to quit and just seek justification.

As for the solutions, I have already spoke of three (cooldown, effect redesign, constellation redesign) that are - from my opinion - more meaningful, than the solution from the first post.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

I can't agree that passives are for easier (less demanding) activities and slottables are for harder (more demanding) activities

No offense, but you do even do those activities? Even before the change, how you spent your points wasn't about just filling out details. It's about getting the most out of a specific activity you were doing. You'd even change your red passives for every vet trial and someone going into pvp with pve tree was asking to be roflstomped by anyone serious. The same is true now. The stuff you slot is gonna depend on the activities that you're doing, while basic stuff like having enough health to get through base game stuff is all passive.

You don't need to slot a single CP skill to have the same ability as anyone else to get through the base game content, and you WILL perform better than anyone who has no CP at all just by taking the passives. Everyone will eventually get all the passives when they hit high enough level, but meaningful differences in build will remain through slottables. And those slottables will and DO revolve around different playstyles. An endgame pvp'er for example don't really need crit.

This is absolutely NOT how the game functions. Like at all.

Adding a 24 cooldown doesn't make it meaningful, it just forces people to do what you want them to do through artifical barriers. That's not adding depth to it at all.

Depth comes from trying to get an edge on others, not from fussing through a menu or having your hands tied behind your back and forced into a cookie cutter.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

And if anyone thinks players won't quit over this...there are quitting threads on this forum right now over the CP trees, with the green tree being by far the most reviled change.

I know of people that quit, and I just came from reading a quitting thread over it. And I'm sure more at to come.

The micromanagement actually cuts at a part of the heart of the Elder Scrolls franchise, which is fluid exploration.

Olauron · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I can't agree that passives are for easier (less demanding) activities and slottables are for harder (more demanding) activities

No offense, but you do even do those activities? Even before the change, how you spent your points wasn't about just filling out details. It's about getting the most out of a specific activity you were doing. You'd even change your red passives for every vet trial and someone going into pvp with pve tree was asking to be roflstomped by anyone serious. The same is true now. The stuff you slot is gonna depend on the activities that you're doing, while basic stuff like having enough health to get through base game stuff is all passive.

You don't need to slot a single CP skill to have the same ability as anyone else to get through the base game content, and you WILL perform better than anyone who has no CP at all just by taking the passives. Everyone will eventually get all the passives when they hit high enough level, but meaningful differences in build will remain through slottables. And those slottables will and DO revolve around different playstyles. An endgame pvp'er for example don't really need crit.

This is absolutely NOT how the game functions. Like at all.

Adding a 24 cooldown doesn't make it meaningful, it just forces people to do what you want them to do through artifical barriers. That's not adding depth to it at all.

Depth comes from trying to get an edge on others, not from fussing through a menu or having your hands tied behind your back and forced into a cookie cutter.

You contradict yourself. You can't say

Even before the change, how you spent your points wasn't about just filling out details.

and

You'd even change your red passives for every vet trial and someone going into pvp with pve tree was asking to be roflstomped by anyone serious.

at the same time. Changing passives for every vet trial is exactly filling out details. When you are selecting a number of passives or change their CP weight, filling out the details of your activity is the thing you are doing.
Every constellation has activities (groups of stars with the same purpose, for example harvesting activity, healing activity, tanking activity). Every activity has details (stars). Selecting stars (and number of stages of stars if needed) is filling out the details of your activity by definition.

Cooldown doesn't solve a reason, of course. It solves only a result (just like moving slottables into passives solves only the result). A more elegant solution would be not a fixed time cooldown, but the end of activity cooldown (almost every activity has quest attached, finishing this quest can reset the slottables).
But this is purely hypothetical discussion, as the system has gone Live the way it is now, so it is too late to remove something from it (be it time or points invested). The only correct way to deal with it now is to add, not to remove. You can add either effects to existing stars or new stars themselves.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And if anyone thinks players won't quit over this...there are quitting threads on this forum right now over the CP trees, with the green tree being by far the most reviled change.

I know of people that quit, and I just came from reading a quitting thread over it. And I'm sure more at to come.

The micromanagement actually cuts at a part of the heart of the Elder Scrolls franchise, which is fluid exploration.

And I know that I am seeing a log-in queue every weekend without any events or big releases.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Changing passives for every vet trial is exactly filling out details

Not in the sense you presented it, which is what I was refusing. You made the claim that it wasn't about a activity being hard or not, but about filling in the details of your character. Which implies it's about personalizing your build and not about engaging in difficult content. I responded that it was not about filling out the details in that sense of the term, not in the textbook way. As is clearly evident in the rest of the post where difficult content is what you were tailoring your CP towards such as vet trials and PvP not just personalizing. There is no contradiction because I was using it as a term you defined and not like a dictionary

Cooldown doesn't solve a reason, of course. It solves only a result

Which is why I said you cannot meaningfully tackle the reason people are quitting and view it as micromanagement if you refuse to actually make the system on the way the game is actually played.

And I know that I am seeing a log-in queue every weekend without any events or big releases.

That happens with every expansion. The ones that we lose large segments of the playerbase is the ones with tons of complaints that flood the forums about a specific thing, and that is why devs are quick to address those.

People are quitting or hating the game, short term interest in trying a major update does not negate that.

The green tree is one of the most reviled changes this game has ever dropped and you're being very stubborn if you cannot see that, imo because this update has gotten a lot of complaints

CoronHR · March 2021

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Design of craft tree is stupid in current form. They want to have more choices in higher levels and this is great for combat, but pointless for crafting tree. Your choices in crafting tree in practice is all-the-time swapping between every different in-game acitivity and this is what we should do? Really ZOS? This is my reward? Constant micromagament and checking which passsives I have active?

I see simple solution - craft tree doesn't need to be so complex as rest of trees. If they don't want more slots (oh, give me 6 at least with current system) they should just merge some passives into one. Overall needed points can be the same, they can just add more steps in merged passives.

Master Gatherer and Plentifull Harvest
Treasure Hunter and Homemaker
Reel Technique and Angler's Instincts
Rationer and Liquid Efficiency
War Mount and Gifted Rider
and some mixing for thieving ones.

With merging crucial passives we can avoid 90% of reslotting and have feeling that we at least using all the most basic ones. There are still be some choices, but this is won't be so annoying as it is now.

i like this idea, of merging passives.

Sylvermynx · March 2021

CoronHR wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Design of craft tree is stupid in current form. They want to have more choices in higher levels and this is great for combat, but pointless for crafting tree. Your choices in crafting tree in practice is all-the-time swapping between every different in-game acitivity and this is what we should do? Really ZOS? This is my reward? Constant micromagament and checking which passsives I have active?

I see simple solution - craft tree doesn't need to be so complex as rest of trees. If they don't want more slots (oh, give me 6 at least with current system) they should just merge some passives into one. Overall needed points can be the same, they can just add more steps in merged passives.

Master Gatherer and Plentifull Harvest
Treasure Hunter and Homemaker
Reel Technique and Angler's Instincts
Rationer and Liquid Efficiency
War Mount and Gifted Rider
and some mixing for thieving ones.

With merging crucial passives we can avoid 90% of reslotting and have feeling that we at least using all the most basic ones. There are still be some choices, but this is won't be so annoying as it is now.

i like this idea, of merging passives.

So do I!

Gythral · March 2021

hack it's roots and dump the mass on a bonfire!

Only thing it's good for

Olauron · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Changing passives for every vet trial is exactly filling out details

Not in the sense you presented it, which is what I was refusing. You made the claim that it wasn't about a activity being hard or not, but about filling in the details of your character. Which implies it's about personalizing your build and not about engaging in difficult content. I responded that it was not about filling out the details in that sense of the term, not in the textbook way. As is clearly evident in the rest of the post where difficult content is what you were tailoring your CP towards such as vet trials and PvP not just personalizing. There is no contradiction because I was using it as a term you defined and not like a dictionary

Oh my. These things are interconnected, these things are two sides of one coin. Players are selecting one activity, when they are specializing in one activity. It doesn't matter what activity - harvesting, PVE healing, PVP group healing, tanking or anything else. It so happens that most of the difficult content is group content (so we exclude arenas and solo pvp), where specialization is required. Overland, arenas and solo pvp are mixed (jack-of-all-trade) content, and the same way jack-of-all-trades of the green constellation are not specializing in harvesting or thieving, and take something for one activity and something for another.
It is not about content being hard or not, because hard content (most of the time) means specialization, and specialization means working with the details of one activity, and the principle of having a choice, having conflicting slottables is the same for any level of detail, for jack-of-all-trades and for specialists.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And I know that I am seeing a log-in queue every weekend without any events or big releases.

That happens with every expansion. The ones that we lose large segments of the playerbase is the ones with tons of complaints that flood the forums about a specific thing, and that is why devs are quick to address those.

People are quitting or hating the game, short term interest in trying a major update does not negate that.

The green tree is one of the most reviled changes this game has ever dropped and you're being very stubborn if you cannot see that, imo because this update has gotten a lot of complaints

There is no expansion now. Dungeon DLC is two weeks old already, and it was never a reason of log-in queues (at least for last few years). This means that the population of the game is healthy. Some people are quitting. So what. They were going to quit anyway, because of the red moon or because of the blue moon, because there are too many things to do or because there are too few things to do. Justification is not important. Those who want to quit will find the first good enough justification and do so.

Olauron · March 2021

CoronHR wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Design of craft tree is stupid in current form. They want to have more choices in higher levels and this is great for combat, but pointless for crafting tree. Your choices in crafting tree in practice is all-the-time swapping between every different in-game acitivity and this is what we should do? Really ZOS? This is my reward? Constant micromagament and checking which passsives I have active?

I see simple solution - craft tree doesn't need to be so complex as rest of trees. If they don't want more slots (oh, give me 6 at least with current system) they should just merge some passives into one. Overall needed points can be the same, they can just add more steps in merged passives.

Master Gatherer and Plentifull Harvest
Treasure Hunter and Homemaker
Reel Technique and Angler's Instincts
Rationer and Liquid Efficiency
War Mount and Gifted Rider
and some mixing for thieving ones.

With merging crucial passives we can avoid 90% of reslotting and have feeling that we at least using all the most basic ones. There are still be some choices, but this is won't be so annoying as it is now.

i like this idea, of merging passives.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Design of craft tree is stupid in current form. They want to have more choices in higher levels and this is great for combat, but pointless for crafting tree. Your choices in crafting tree in practice is all-the-time swapping between every different in-game acitivity and this is what we should do? Really ZOS? This is my reward? Constant micromagament and checking which passsives I have active?

I see simple solution - craft tree doesn't need to be so complex as rest of trees. If they don't want more slots (oh, give me 6 at least with current system) they should just merge some passives into one. Overall needed points can be the same, they can just add more steps in merged passives.

Master Gatherer and Plentifull Harvest
Treasure Hunter and Homemaker
Reel Technique and Angler's Instincts
Rationer and Liquid Efficiency
War Mount and Gifted Rider
and some mixing for thieving ones.

With merging crucial passives we can avoid 90% of reslotting and have feeling that we at least using all the most basic ones. There are still be some choices, but this is won't be so annoying as it is now.

i like this idea, of merging passives.

So do I!

Merging may work, but I say "add more". There is no choice for repairing armor? Add at least 4 more slottables for repairing armor, and you will have at least 5 to fill 4 slots. A chance to upgrade armor? A chance to get a treasure map from armor? A chance to receive extra mats? Restrict it to the first repairing of equipped armor per day to prevent exploiting, and you have more ways to get something you want. The same can be done for deconstruction or fence.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

It is not about content being hard or not, because hard content (most of the time) means specialization

Yes. It is. Hard content is why you have to have to do this specialization. You don't need to do that to play the base game. The devs gives us all a baseline level of power through CP passives, attributes, levels, etc. And then you augment that power through stuff like slottables to tackle more difficult content.

That you can sit there and "filling in the details" vs "specializing for harder content" as separate things, and then get condescending with someone for discussing them under the terms YOU defined is absolutely baffling, and yet here we are.

As I said the FIRST time, it is for the more difficult content we specialize and there is also a baseline level of power you get just for having enough CP even without using a single slottable in the red and blue tree. The same is NOT true of the green tree because the baseline level of "power" was removed, and now it's nothing but a bunch of slottables and the end result is a lot of micromanagement.

There is no expansion now. Dungeon DLC is two weeks old already

Two weeks is not old, and the CP changes are a large enough system change that this game is seeing expansion level interest. That's the point. And people are largely disliking what they are seeing. Comparing this update to other dungeon updates is absurd. The dungeon wasn't even the highlight of this update, it was champion system. Which people waited two years to debut.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Sylvermynx · March 2021

Maybe the two of you (Olauron and spartaxoxo) could just agree to disagree?

Olauron · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is not about content being hard or not, because hard content (most of the time) means specialization

Yes. It is. Hard content is why you have to have to do this specialization. You don't need to do that to play the base game. The devs gives us all a baseline level of power through CP passives, attributes, levels, etc. And then you augment that power through stuff like slottables to tackle more difficult content.

That you can sit there and "filling in the details" vs "specializing for harder content" as separate things, and then get condescending with someone for discussing them under the terms YOU defined is absolutely baffling, and yet here we are.

As I said the FIRST time, it is for the more difficult content we specialize and there is also a baseline level of power you get just for having enough CP even without using a single slottable in the red and blue tree. The same is NOT true of the green tree because the baseline level of "power" was removed, and now it's nothing but a bunch of slottables and the end result is a lot of micromanagement.

Detail as an "individual fact or item" (star) is selected and slotted on microlevel, while activity as an aggregate is selected on macrolevel. In both cases the choice should matter. In both cases there should be more options than possibilities. Even for 10-level system (gigalevel, macrolevel, microlevel, nanolevel, etc.) there must be the same principle of choice regardless of the level of depth. That's why any individual level doesn't matter. When all levels are based on the same principle, you can take one and only one, no matter what exactly.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Two weeks is not old, and the CP changes are a large enough system change that this game is seeing expansion level interest. That's the point. And people are largely disliking what they are seeing. Comparing this update to other dungeon updates is absurd. The dungeon wasn't even the highlight of this update, it was champion system.

Players are largely disliking and still playing so much that there are log-in queues on weekends? Then they can live with that, nothing should be changed.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Maybe the two of you (Olauron and spartaxoxo) could just agree to disagree?

That's essentially what I mean by the last line. It's clear to me he doesn't actually care about the new system causing problems to players because he wants it. So I was like okay, I get it. Could have saved us a lot of both a lot of trouble by saying that at the beginning, but it is what it is.

Northwold · March 2022

I kind of feel this deserves a necro despite having been discussed A LOT.

I'm not going to stop playing, go into a menu, faff around and slot an optional perk every time I happen across a log in the open world. So I will forever be subject to the deliberately too-long harvesting animations. Honestly, what is the point of that? Behold, fellow players, my log cutting is so fast that I am now immensely overpowered and you cannot compete unless my pickpocketing skill is nerfed? Really?

I'm not going to do the same every time I come across an urn on the off chance.

So half the slottable perks in the tree become utterly pointless because they are basic quality of life improvements that should be in the game at all times anyway, but can't in practice be used without boring yourself to death micromanaging everything. There are more important perks in there that a non-specialist player who doesn't want to be reslotting things every minute in the middle of a quest needs.

Is there any hope that the green tree will be looked at again? What is and is not slottable simply doesn't make any sense in normal gameplay.

Sylvermynx · March 2022

Regardless it's a year old necro.... you don't have to pay to change out the slottables. It does have a 30 second delay but no gold cost.

Northwold · March 2022

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Regardless it's a year old necro.... you don't have to pay to change out the slottables. It does have a 30 second delay but no gold cost.

(Edited while you were replying I suspect -- I've a bad habit of posting before I actually read what I wrote! :-) )

Sylvermynx · March 2022

Northwold wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Regardless it's a year old necro.... you don't have to pay to change out the slottables. It does have a 30 second delay but no gold cost.

(Edited while you were replying I suspect -- I've a bad habit of posting before I actually read what I wrote! :-) )

No worries! And actually, I'm not sure the unslot/reslot maneuver has a full 30 second delay any more - seems close to instantaneous to me these days.

alberichtano · March 2022

Heh. I just use the chest-loot, decon and harvisting ones, the main four, on all my alts. Only exception is my dedicated thief/murderer, who instead has the ones that improve profitability of stolen goods.

I haven't even bothered to put out points in anything else on any other green stars, because what's the point. Fishing faster? Meh. I only fish on my main, and even then just to get the achievement. Not worth the points (especially since I have to take the utterly useless "double the number of crafting plans found"-star to even get to them. So nope.

And speed for running and horses just never bothered me. I am in no particular hurry anywhere.

alberichtano · March 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And if anyone thinks players won't quit over this...there are quitting threads on this forum right now over the CP trees, with the green tree being by far the most reviled change.

I know of people that quit, and I just came from reading a quitting thread over it. And I'm sure more at to come.

The micromanagement actually cuts at a part of the heart of the Elder Scrolls franchise, which is fluid exploration.

I gotta agree there. Now I know that MMOs aren't the same as RPGs, but at some point I always think that a system in a game should represent something in real life, a simulation of sorts. The idea that your knowledge is in the stars, and that you can swap them but not have all of them at once, is just bizarre to me.

"Sorry Joe, I can't help you headcount the bill for who pays what for dinner right now, I was focusing on getting maximum fullness of my tummy..."

Amottica · March 2022

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I really don't understand the grief with the craft tree. Let's be honest in that 95% of the time you will have four specific abilities slotted.

These are

Homemaker
Treasure Hunter
Master Gatherer
Plentiful Harvest

This may be correct for some, but is very much not the case for others.

There are three actives related to speed which are what a great many players use as actives. That leaves only one spot left. As such we are having to swap our actives for treasure hunger, the two for gathering, and more depending on our interest.

Just saying because we often mistake our perspective as what is the norm.

Sylvermynx · March 2022

Actually, I never put points into the speed stuff - 60 riding is already too fast....

I'm working out a slottables swap setup especially for my mains using the armory. That seems to be the best way for me.

Ilumia · March 2022

I also hate the micromanagement that comes with way too many of the green tree perks being slottable stars. I really wish many more were passives. I have the champion points to get a bunch of them, and it sucks that leveling the green tree won't make any difference for me unless I spend time and effort micromanaging and always remembering to do this. I get the limit for the other two trees with combat mechanics and combat balance. But not for the green tree.

Anyway I'd just like to recommend the addon 'Jack of all trades' that'll automatically change between the stars you've gotten with champion points - for instance it equips meticulous disassembly whenever you interact with a crafting station. Or the treasure hunter and furnishing-thingy when you interact with relevant chests and containers and master-gatherer and pletiful harvest when interacting with harvest nodes and suchlike. It's a really good addon. I know only works on PC, and I resent the idea of needing addons to fix QoL things. Not least because the growing list of addons doing this is making my game unstable (I think).

Northwold · March 2022

Ilumia wrote: »

Anyway I'd just like to recommend the addon 'Jack of all trades' that'll automatically change between the stars you've gotten with champion points - for instance it equips meticulous disassembly whenever you interact with a crafting station. Or the treasure hunter and furnishing-thingy when you interact with relevant chests and containers and master-gatherer and pletiful harvest when interacting with harvest nodes and suchlike. It's a really good addon. I know only works on PC, and I resent the idea of needing addons to fix QoL things. Not least because the growing list of addons doing this is making my game unstable (I think).

Didn't know that addon even existed but I guess the very fact that it does illustrates how bizarre/pointless the green tree set up is right now. You have an addon purely to get around an artificial mechanic that makes playing the game not fun and shouldn't even be there!

Ilumia · March 2022

Northwold wrote: »

Didn't know that addon even existed but I guess the very fact that it does illustrates how bizarre/pointless the green tree set up is right now. You have an addon purely to get around an artificial mechanic that makes playing the game not fun and shouldn't even be there!

Yes, well said, that captures the problem really well!

alberichtano · March 2022

Ilumia wrote: »

I also hate the micromanagement that comes with way too many of the green tree perks being slottable stars. I really wish many more were passives. I have the champion points to get a bunch of them, and it sucks that leveling the green tree won't make any difference for me unless I spend time and effort micromanaging and always remembering to do this. I get the limit for the other two trees with combat mechanics and combat balance. But not for the green tree.

Anyway I'd just like to recommend the addon 'Jack of all trades' that'll automatically change between the stars you've gotten with champion points - for instance it equips meticulous disassembly whenever you interact with a crafting station. Or the treasure hunter and furnishing-thingy when you interact with relevant chests and containers and master-gatherer and pletiful harvest when interacting with harvest nodes and suchlike. It's a really good addon. I know only works on PC, and I resent the idea of needing addons to fix QoL things. Not least because the growing list of addons doing this is making my game unstable (I think).

Interesting. Not sure I will use it, but nice to know it exists if I would want to. Thanks for the tip.

AcadianPaladin · March 2022

Another fan of simply making the greenies all passives. By the time I got 1500 or so CP, I had every passive in all trees maxed and 12 maxed slotted skills in my 12 slots. So the last 500 or so CP I've earned have just been gathering dust. I'm not interested in maxing more slotted skills to swap around because I'm happy with the setup I have. Surely I can't be the only high level player who does not want to be swapping slotteds around. So toss us a QoL bone of somewhere to put excess CP that gives us a small gain / reward for having lotsa CP. Making the greenies all passive would fit this bill.

ZOS_Icy · March 2022

Greetings,

We have closed this topic as it was originally created in March 2021. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.

Thank you for your understanding