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Vampire is getting nerfed. Again.
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Lixiviant✭✭✭✭✭Remathilis wrote: »
Good point. Might take a look at that and see what I can do. I was trying a MagCro Vampire and hate to give up so soon.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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I think the biggest problem is that nightblade IS more or less the vampire class but without any of the burdens. We can't have a valid vampire system as long as this class exists in its current shape. Half of its identity revolves around illusion magic and manipulation of vital forces. All the good things packed into two skill lines, with the actual curse tacked on as optional condition.Remathilis wrote: »At this point, does vampire bring anything to the table that a decently built nightblade doesn't?
I don't think Mist Form mitigating damage in PvE has anything in particular to do with Night Blades. So whether that class existed or not, this would have happened.
Someone in charge over at development doesn't want people using Mist Form defensively. That's been obvious for awhile now because this is just the latest in what has been a long string of nerfs to that ability. Which is weird because Blood Mist originally seemed to be specifically designed for that exact purpose.
So I think the real problem here is the developers just don't know what they are doing when it comes to Vampire and can't make up their minds. I personally thought they were in a pretty good spot after Greymoor and should have just left them alone.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not sure why they made Blood Mist heal in all honestly when you look at it's original form which was baleful mist. It dealt a modest okay amount of damage but didn't heal for said damage. By making it heal they advertised to everyone that Blood Mist was designed to be an in the thick of it defensive mode designed to scale with the amount of people wanting your head on a platter.
They still have not told us what Blood Mist is really for, because if their statement about Mistform being a disengagement ability applies to Blood Mist to then they were not paying attention to what they made.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Remathilis wrote: »I have a theory that ZoS doesn't know what it wants to do with vampire....
At this point I think this is more than just a theory. ^^
Edited by Jeremy on November 3, 2021 4:53PM12 -
Remathilis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remathilis wrote: »I have a theory that ZoS doesn't know what it wants to do with vampire....
At this point I think this is more than just a theory. ^^
It's a theory in the same sense gravity is a theory.5 -
K9002✭✭✭✭✭
The recent change to mist form no, but vampires having a mostly useless skill set does have a lot to do with it. Out of the abilities that vampires used to have in proper TES games, nightblades already exhaust all the illusion magic options with their invisibility, fear and shadow image. All the blood magic and draining stuff is covered by their siphoning skill line too, it's actually right in the skill descriptions ("Steal an enemy's life force," "Siphon the vigor from your enemies' blood"). TES 5 vampires could raise undead servants. Well too bad, because in ESO there is a dedicated necromancer class, and it's a paid feature which will always take priority over vampires. Even the penchant for frost magic that TES 5 vampires had is now covered by wardens.I don't think Mist Form mitigating damage in PvE has anything in particular to do with Night Blades. So whether that class existed or not, this would have happened.
So if vampires were just deprived of their most unique feature, the mist form, what other skills could be given to them if other classes already cover basically every aspect of vampirism, down to utilizing the blood of their enemies with cool bloody effects? That's the main problem. Vampires can't be fixed and given a functional toolkit without copying skills from already existing classes. All the good and thematically fitting options are already exhausted.4 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
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The recent change to mist form no, but vampires having a mostly useless skill set does have a lot to do with it. Out of the abilities that vampires used to have in proper TES games, nightblades already exhaust all the illusion magic options with their invisibility, fear and shadow image. All the blood magic and draining stuff is covered by their siphoning skill line too, it's actually right in the skill descriptions ("Steal an enemy's life force," "Siphon the vigor from your enemies' blood"). TES 5 vampires could raise undead servants. Well too bad, because in ESO there is a dedicated necromancer class, and it's a paid feature which will always take priority over vampires. Even the penchant for frost magic that TES 5 vampires had is now covered by wardens.I don't think Mist Form mitigating damage in PvE has anything in particular to do with Night Blades. So whether that class existed or not, this would have happened.
So if vampires were just deprived of their most unique feature, the mist form, what other skills could be given to them if other classes already cover basically every aspect of vampirism, down to utilizing the blood of their enemies with cool bloody effects? That's the main problem. Vampires can't be fixed and given a functional toolkit without copying skills from already existing classes. All the good and thematically fitting options are already exhausted.
Just because something is exhausted doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. MagDK's Burning Embers is a better heal than Vampiric Drain but Werewolf's Claws of Life functions the same way, healing for the damage done over the course of the DOT. You can have overlap in this game and many "unique" things are just a jumble of stuff from other abilities and sets. Or worse, just a reskin with a different elemental effect like with the Werewolf's DOT to MagDK's claw strike.Edited by Vevvev on November 3, 2021 6:45PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Lixiviant✭✭✭✭✭Some good replies and making me think before curing my MagCro vamp. Been wanting to try a StamCro, so this will be a good time to start one, minus the vampire.1
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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The recent change to mist form no, but vampires having a mostly useless skill set does have a lot to do with it. Out of the abilities that vampires used to have in proper TES games, nightblades already exhaust all the illusion magic options with their invisibility, fear and shadow image. All the blood magic and draining stuff is covered by their siphoning skill line too, it's actually right in the skill descriptions ("Steal an enemy's life force," "Siphon the vigor from your enemies' blood"). TES 5 vampires could raise undead servants. Well too bad, because in ESO there is a dedicated necromancer class, and it's a paid feature which will always take priority over vampires. Even the penchant for frost magic that TES 5 vampires had is now covered by wardens.I don't think Mist Form mitigating damage in PvE has anything in particular to do with Night Blades. So whether that class existed or not, this would have happened.
So if vampires were just deprived of their most unique feature, the mist form, what other skills could be given to them if other classes already cover basically every aspect of vampirism, down to utilizing the blood of their enemies with cool bloody effects? That's the main problem. Vampires can't be fixed and given a functional toolkit without copying skills from already existing classes. All the good and thematically fitting options are already exhausted.
I think I understand what you're saying. But the Vampire Skills have been functional in the past without encroaching on other classes. As mentioned, Mist Form used to be good. Drain used to be good (it functioned differently from the Night Blade abilities in that it stunned and took health by a percentage). Blood Frenzy used to be good. Eviscerate and its morphs used to be good. So they have been able to come up unique abilities for the Vampire. I think the only reason Vampires can't be "fixed" is because the developers are obsessed with nerfing them into the ground. Don't ask me why.Edited by Jeremy on November 3, 2021 7:45PM7 -
Remathilis✭✭✭✭✭
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The recent change to mist form no, but vampires having a mostly useless skill set does have a lot to do with it. Out of the abilities that vampires used to have in proper TES games, nightblades already exhaust all the illusion magic options with their invisibility, fear and shadow image. All the blood magic and draining stuff is covered by their siphoning skill line too, it's actually right in the skill descriptions ("Steal an enemy's life force," "Siphon the vigor from your enemies' blood"). TES 5 vampires could raise undead servants. Well too bad, because in ESO there is a dedicated necromancer class, and it's a paid feature which will always take priority over vampires. Even the penchant for frost magic that TES 5 vampires had is now covered by wardens.I don't think Mist Form mitigating damage in PvE has anything in particular to do with Night Blades. So whether that class existed or not, this would have happened.
So if vampires were just deprived of their most unique feature, the mist form, what other skills could be given to them if other classes already cover basically every aspect of vampirism, down to utilizing the blood of their enemies with cool bloody effects? That's the main problem. Vampires can't be fixed and given a functional toolkit without copying skills from already existing classes. All the good and thematically fitting options are already exhausted.
I think I understand what you're saying. But the Vampire Skills have been functional in the past without encroaching on other classes. As mentioned, Mist Form used to be good. Drain used to be good (it functioned differently from the Night Blade abilities in that it stunned and took health by a percentage). Blood Frenzy used to be good. Eviscerate and its morphs used to be good. So they have been able to come up unique abilities for the Vampire. I think the only reason Vampires can't be "fixed" is because the developers are obsessed with nerfing them into the ground. Don't ask me why.
My guess is they vampire is halfway between a guild skill line and a full kit like werewolf. In theory, it should be usable as a complete suite like ww is, or parts of it can augment your class/weapon skills like fighter or mage does. In reality, since you can mix it with other abilities, they keep thinking it is making broken combos and are afraid it will end up a must have for it. The channel heal no longer stuns because it was an easy unavoidable stun. Mistform makes some content too easy, nerf your Regen in it and then remove all DR from PvE. Eviscerate too good for parsing? Nerf the damage on it. BfB and Sated Fury too easy to resource manage with a healer? No outside heals for you! What? Ring of the Pale Order gets around that? Nerf that too!
They are so afraid vampire will be good at something other than ganking that they have ruined anything that is remotely useful from it.
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Only reason the Vampiric Drain's stun really became an issue was during the age ZOS started removing long range CC. When things like Old Stone Fist, Crystal Frags, and other such skills lost the stun component people turned to Drain which at the time was a 15 meter instant cast stun you could animation cancel. Accelerating Drain even if animation cancelled gave the minor expedition for a time. Because of the vacuum created by the lack of long range stuns and the popularization of Vampiric Drain it to met the same fate with the moving of the stun to the end of the channel effectively killing it.
When Greymoor came around they took the stun off drain and attached it to a 10 meter cone ability they called Mesmerize, but despite NB having Aspect of Terror which was a reliable AoE stun with a target limit increased by the Mass Hysteria morph they decided to... get creative. Sadly this creativity in making the target count unlimited by attaching the looking at you rule made it unreliable and unwieldy. Mesmerize's morph, Hypnosis, is essentially Aspect of Terror/Mass Hysteria but unreliable, and the other morph, Stupefy, adding the snare at the end made it slightly more useful than the Nightblade's stun.... if you could land it.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Gorem✭✭instead of turning vampires into a "Lich". make them actual vampires where they gain health and power from attacks...EVERYTHING they did to change the vampire is totally backwards and makes no sense at all. it is in no shape or form anything related to ANY type of vampire and calling it as such is just dumb. They have ruined the game in so many ways, yet other than this does it actually Suprise you, Yet in a world of confirmation bias and Reality Denial they refuse to admit to it. Several big MMORPG titles are rolling out the next 2 years. i don't see this downward spiral keeping players in the near future. WOW has turned into EQ2 population base with millions of accounts and only a few thousand active players. everyone is or has left for final fantasy, Lost ark and new world already what 2 more Huge releases are expected? yeah good luck with this dumpster fire.4
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LightningWitch✭✭✭
Oh, they do ask the question on every change, siding on the "less" part of the answer.Thannazzar wrote: »The key problem is ZOS never ask themselves: 'Will this change make the game more or less fun to play?'
7 years of these troubling changes doesn't give confidence "more" is ever part of the answer.
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Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭When ever something puts into peril the 'long haul' that they wish to keep in place, it gets nerf.
Please fix other issues in the game. We know you can do things if you are changing skills.0 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was hoping to come back into the game, but this is truly saddening to hear, I only want to experience the game as a vampire, utilizing the skills etc. but it seems the developers are trying their very best to prevent me from doing so. I don't get it. Meanwhile, werewolves have quite a few viable options, even for high-end PvE. What gives?Edited by Shagreth on February 16, 2022 6:32PM3 -
noobfury✭✭✭I got if for PVP like others but overall I think the penalties outweigh the benefits for most of the skills. IMHO a better approach would be to lower the damage reduction on mist form in PVE rather than having it only apply to player damage.noobfury earned the Eighth Anniversary badge.Thanks for sticking with us for 8 years. PC NA0 -
DagenHawk✭✭✭✭✭Currently everyone wants to be a vampire to the point of you can buy a bite, or in some cases get one for free.
So how about making vampirism incredibly rare....but they have the ability to enter villages and NPC dwellings... until they are spotted of course for what they are, then they become full PVP Full loot.
Any takers...no?
Honestly you should really be grateful for what you have.Edited by DagenHawk on February 16, 2022 8:23PM1 -
atherusmora✭✭✭Are there any worthwhile benefits on Vamp anymore? Damage Mitigations is nice, but it doesn’t overcome cost increase for non-vamp skills, low-no healing/health recovery and taking extra fire damage. This is so overwhelmingly disheartening. Why do you hate Vamps ZOS?Edited by atherusmora on February 16, 2022 8:21PM(Pet)Magsorc Main
PS4 NA
PvX
Long Live the Queen!!!3 -
EozZoe1989✭✭✭id like to see a new level or evolved skills .. so add on to the remaining ones and make them something else leveling them higher too a new level of cool
other idea was to be able to change skills to any skill line in game .. so can change class but be able to change it to another.. or make skill trees available to change to others when in game and maybe even charge 5000 to change.. id like to have -- dark magic with necromancer this would be cool .. i bet there is other skill lines the game others might wanna try in game.. maybe not change class but only skill trees,, in game...0 -
Xarico✭✭✭Currently everyone wants to be a vampire to the point of you can buy a bite, or in some cases get one for free.
So how about making vampirism incredibly rare....but they have the ability to enter villages and NPC dwellings... until they are spotted of course for what they are, then they become full PVP Full loot.
Any takers...no?
Honestly you should really be grateful for what you have.
Why would there be any takers for a random lore-unfriendly change? TES vampires, with the sole exception of Vvardenfell vampires who aren't playable, have no issues masquerading as humans. In ESO itself there are several who hold positions of power in the mortal society without being noticed.
There are no reasons to be grateful to the developers for not implementing a frivolous punishment fantasy, it's the expected minimum.11 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Currently everyone wants to be a vampire to the point of you can buy a bite, or in some cases get one for free.
So how about making vampirism incredibly rare....but they have the ability to enter villages and NPC dwellings... until they are spotted of course for what they are, then they become full PVP Full loot.
Any takers...no?
Honestly you should really be grateful for what you have.
Don't tempt me with a good time.
Edit to clarify: I'd be invisible while sprinting, incredibly hard to kill, I'm a PvPer experienced with brawler melee builds, and am so rich losing my gear is a big meh. Be careful when making suggestions like this cause someone will bite.Edited by Vevvev on February 17, 2022 12:52AMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thannazzar wrote: »The key problem is ZOS never ask themselves: 'Will this change make the game more or less fun to play?'
That really is a valid core question for any change or proposed change!PC
PS4/PS50 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
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Uh...would you care to provide proof that "everyone wants to become a Vampire", because the majority of what I've seen and heard have said the complete opposite. People have been able to get bites for free for years, people have been selling bites for years. That has nothing to do with the state Vampire is currently in.Currently everyone wants to be a vampire to the point of you can buy a bite, or in some cases get one for free.
So how about making vampirism incredibly rare....but they have the ability to enter villages and NPC dwellings... until they are spotted of course for what they are, then they become full PVP Full loot.
Any takers...no?
Honestly you should really be grateful for what you have.
People should be grateful for a skill line where most of the skills are useless, and one that grants penalties that make no sense? Well, whatever issues you have with the game, just keep your own advice in mind and don't speak out about it.Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!4 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭Currently everyone wants to be a vampire to the point of you can buy a bite, or in some cases get one for free.
So how about making vampirism incredibly rare....but they have the ability to enter villages and NPC dwellings... until they are spotted of course for what they are, then they become full PVP Full loot.
Any takers...no?
Honestly you should really be grateful for what you have.
Don't tempt me with a good time.
Edit to clarify: I'd be invisible while sprinting, incredibly hard to kill, I'm a PvPer experienced with brawler melee builds, and am so rich losing my gear is a big meh. Be careful when making suggestions like this cause someone will bite.
Was that a pun, Vevvev?
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Currently everyone wants to be a vampire to the point of you can buy a bite, or in some cases get one for free.
So how about making vampirism incredibly rare....but they have the ability to enter villages and NPC dwellings... until they are spotted of course for what they are, then they become full PVP Full loot.
Any takers...no?
Honestly you should really be grateful for what you have.
Don't tempt me with a good time.
Edit to clarify: I'd be invisible while sprinting, incredibly hard to kill, I'm a PvPer experienced with brawler melee builds, and am so rich losing my gear is a big meh. Be careful when making suggestions like this cause someone will bite.
Was that a pun, Vevvev?
>.>
<.<
Maybe...PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2