Maintenance for the week of December 15:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
New Power Bash Scaling.
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VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭It is a wash. If powerbash scales with max damage/resource and uses bash glyphs, then the two basically cancel each other out. You use 3x bash glyphs you lose *multi-use* 3x damage glyphs losing both damage and healing power.
I'm surprised powerbash still scales with damage/resource, I read the pts notes and tooltip to mean it would scale off resistances like bash damage does.
No those two don't cancel each other out in the slightest.
Bash damage glyphs add way more damage than wpn dmg glyphs.
This allows you to run 1-2 defensive sets while still having an outstanding offensive presence due to the new interactions with bash damage and power slam.
Not to mention that one doesn't need to run 3 bash glyphs in order to make power slam op and can therefore substitute the wpndmg glyphs by other means if one is looking for even more damage.
Survivability next patch is increased so heavily on almost any spec that you can substitute shortcomings from lower offensive stats by slapping on another heal.2 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Without any gear other than a one hand weapon/shield, with no champ points, passives or gear that increase the damage to bash; power slam only does 182 more damage than surprise attack. There isn’t a large difference in the base damage. Power slam picks up a bulk of its damage from the deadly bash passive. With that passive it adds about 30% damage to the attack. If anything was to be adjusted it should be the deadly bash passive.
No.
Deadly Bash is totally fine, just like bash damage glyphs or deadlands demolished.
There is only one issue and that is that the Devs randomly overbuffed power Slam.
There is no reason to change anything other than reverting the change to power Slam to be buffed by the former mentioned sources.
There isn’t a need to revert the change to make power slam function with bash enhancing items. I have looked at the numbers and they are not extreme as some people claim they are. Stacking all infused bashing glyphs, using heavy armor and the bash enhancing sets all come at cost. I have yet to see anyone post one of these “over buffed” power slam builds that isn’t just some screen cap of a tool tip damage.
I don’t think either deadly bash or power slam need to be changed based on the numbers I have seen in pts. All I am saying is if zos were going to adjust anything it would be better done at the passive level. Power slam functioning as bash allows for new build combos both currently and in the future.
Building for full bash damage is a waste, 1 set and 2 bash glyphs is all you need.
On a proper build this will still give you a +15k TT on power slam without the 33% boost.
The only thing that makes it look less op on the pts is that ZOS thought it was a good idea to shove even more buffs up the bottoms of magplars and magdks.
However it still is completely broken and desperately needs to be reverted.
A 15k tool tip means little in pvp that damage will be more than cut in half in pvp areas and then still has to deal with the targets defense and healing output. In the pvp areas where I play most players are 5k+ weapon or spell damage and that drives their healing output value. That 15K damage will become around 5k on average and be out healed in less than second.
Also using the bash glyphs and sets even if it two glyphs and one set will have impacts to the weapon/spell damage the build has. Which lower the overall healing output, damage output, and ultimate damage. Just talking about the tool tip isn’t the larger picture, if someone uses bash enhancing items, they have to sacrifice something to do so. It’s not free damage; it’s sacrificing other stats to enhance one attack.
1 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Without any gear other than a one hand weapon/shield, with no champ points, passives or gear that increase the damage to bash; power slam only does 182 more damage than surprise attack. There isn’t a large difference in the base damage. Power slam picks up a bulk of its damage from the deadly bash passive. With that passive it adds about 30% damage to the attack. If anything was to be adjusted it should be the deadly bash passive.
No.
Deadly Bash is totally fine, just like bash damage glyphs or deadlands demolished.
There is only one issue and that is that the Devs randomly overbuffed power Slam.
There is no reason to change anything other than reverting the change to power Slam to be buffed by the former mentioned sources.
There isn’t a need to revert the change to make power slam function with bash enhancing items. I have looked at the numbers and they are not extreme as some people claim they are. Stacking all infused bashing glyphs, using heavy armor and the bash enhancing sets all come at cost. I have yet to see anyone post one of these “over buffed” power slam builds that isn’t just some screen cap of a tool tip damage.
I don’t think either deadly bash or power slam need to be changed based on the numbers I have seen in pts. All I am saying is if zos were going to adjust anything it would be better done at the passive level. Power slam functioning as bash allows for new build combos both currently and in the future.
Building for full bash damage is a waste, 1 set and 2 bash glyphs is all you need.
On a proper build this will still give you a +15k TT on power slam without the 33% boost.
The only thing that makes it look less op on the pts is that ZOS thought it was a good idea to shove even more buffs up the bottoms of magplars and magdks.
However it still is completely broken and desperately needs to be reverted.
A 15k tool tip means little in pvp that damage will be more than cut in half in pvp areas and then still has to deal with the targets defense and healing output. In the pvp areas where I play most players are 5k+ weapon or spell damage and that drives their healing output value. That 15K damage will become around 5k on average and be out healed in less than second.
Also using the bash glyphs and sets even if it two glyphs and one set will have impacts to the weapon/spell damage the build has. Which lower the overall healing output, damage output, and ultimate damage. Just talking about the tool tip isn’t the larger picture, if someone uses bash enhancing items, they have to sacrifice something to do so. It’s not free damage; it’s sacrificing other stats to enhance one attack.
Please log onto the pts once the maintenance is over and show us how you will survive
You have completely ignored that the power slam TT is higher than the tooltip of other Spammables while it becomes 33% stronger after blocking a single skill, your whole "damage reduced so much" shows that you haven't been on pts at all.
Using bash glyphs on SnB builds is always a net damage gain, the sacrifice is small compared to the benefits.1 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Holy molly 15k tooltip. That's way more than on damage builds, and that doesn't take into account LA->skill->2x bash weaving.
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FragManSaul✭✭Hi everyone,
I can share some insight on this ability and how the skill should be adjusted to work properly. I like playing with bash builds and as the images show I was able to hit a power bash of 45K and have reached 48k. I'm sure I could reach 50K quite easily if I spent more time on a build.
I managed this using a basic pvp bash build setup - Deadlands, Masters One Hand and shield, Wretched Vitality and Gaze of Sithis on a crit Khajit Nightblade build. I've built and played each class and IMO Nightblade is the strongest hitting bash class.
I've seen a few comments about stacking resistant based sets like pariah. while they are ok if you really want to increase the damage of bash more you should use % based damage sets like, Essence Thief, Kinras's Wrath etc. as you'll get more bang for your buck.
The issue with Power Bash isn't resistance or bash damage though, it is the scaling with weapon damage and stamina. I was surprised they actually included both weapon damage and stamina with the ability. You can easily increase your weapon damage with nirnhoned, Molag Kena, Markyn, etc to boost your based damage along side what you need to make a solid bash build. On top of this throw in simmering frenzy and you can hit ridiculous damage numbers as shown.
I personally believe that bash builds are in a good place and they didn't need fiddling with too much. The biggest issue with Bash builds at the moment is the lack of execute. I feel power bash can actually fill this void already. The extra 33% after block should be enough or they could actually change it to an execute ability.
The simple fix would be to remove the weapon and stamina scaling from the skill completely and just make it a bash only ability. It would play into the name and actually be viable as an ability for the niche playstyle.
platform
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »It is a wash. If powerbash scales with max damage/resource and uses bash glyphs, then the two basically cancel each other out. You use 3x bash glyphs you lose *multi-use* 3x damage glyphs losing both damage and healing power.
I'm surprised powerbash still scales with damage/resource, I read the pts notes and tooltip to mean it would scale off resistances like bash damage does.
No those two don't cancel each other out in the slightest.
Bash damage glyphs add way more damage than wpn dmg glyphs.
This allows you to run 1-2 defensive sets while still having an outstanding offensive presence due to the new interactions with bash damage and power slam.
Not to mention that one doesn't need to run 3 bash glyphs in order to make power slam op and can therefore substitute the wpndmg glyphs by other means if one is looking for even more damage.
Survivability next patch is increased so heavily on almost any spec that you can substitute shortcomings from lower offensive stats by slapping on another heal.
Dunno about that. I can do a bash build *right now*, don't need powerbash for that. I used a necro bash build for a bit when they changed bash to .3s. It was not all that. I'll give it a go next patch, the build is still in my armory, but I expect to be disappointed.
Single target is just not efficient.
1-2 defensive sets? If healing is as powerful as everyone expects, if you skimp at all on offense, you won't get kills.
Flip the coin, and if healing is as powerful as everyone expects, then a 45K tool tip, might just be balanced.
Edited by katorga on February 14, 2022 4:49PM0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Without any gear other than a one hand weapon/shield, with no champ points, passives or gear that increase the damage to bash; power slam only does 182 more damage than surprise attack. There isn’t a large difference in the base damage. Power slam picks up a bulk of its damage from the deadly bash passive. With that passive it adds about 30% damage to the attack. If anything was to be adjusted it should be the deadly bash passive.
No.
Deadly Bash is totally fine, just like bash damage glyphs or deadlands demolished.
There is only one issue and that is that the Devs randomly overbuffed power Slam.
There is no reason to change anything other than reverting the change to power Slam to be buffed by the former mentioned sources.
There isn’t a need to revert the change to make power slam function with bash enhancing items. I have looked at the numbers and they are not extreme as some people claim they are. Stacking all infused bashing glyphs, using heavy armor and the bash enhancing sets all come at cost. I have yet to see anyone post one of these “over buffed” power slam builds that isn’t just some screen cap of a tool tip damage.
I don’t think either deadly bash or power slam need to be changed based on the numbers I have seen in pts. All I am saying is if zos were going to adjust anything it would be better done at the passive level. Power slam functioning as bash allows for new build combos both currently and in the future.
Building for full bash damage is a waste, 1 set and 2 bash glyphs is all you need.
On a proper build this will still give you a +15k TT on power slam without the 33% boost.
The only thing that makes it look less op on the pts is that ZOS thought it was a good idea to shove even more buffs up the bottoms of magplars and magdks.
However it still is completely broken and desperately needs to be reverted.
A 15k tool tip means little in pvp that damage will be more than cut in half in pvp areas and then still has to deal with the targets defense and healing output. In the pvp areas where I play most players are 5k+ weapon or spell damage and that drives their healing output value. That 15K damage will become around 5k on average and be out healed in less than second.
Also using the bash glyphs and sets even if it two glyphs and one set will have impacts to the weapon/spell damage the build has. Which lower the overall healing output, damage output, and ultimate damage. Just talking about the tool tip isn’t the larger picture, if someone uses bash enhancing items, they have to sacrifice something to do so. It’s not free damage; it’s sacrificing other stats to enhance one attack.
It has been a while since I played the game si I probably din't know, but didn't bash get a significant buff in pts? While LA, you can fit in about 3 bash attacks so if you combo with power bash doesn't that mean you can do 5 attacks in less than do secs?0 -
FragManSaul✭✭@FragManSaul why do you need bash execute, if you play NB that has execute?
@divnyi i play all classes on bash builds and I do use the execute on both sorc and NB but because they obviously don’t scale with bash you do a lot less damage than you would get from a pure damage based class. It’s still passable though. It’s the other classes really you lack an execute.1 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »It is a wash. If powerbash scales with max damage/resource and uses bash glyphs, then the two basically cancel each other out. You use 3x bash glyphs you lose *multi-use* 3x damage glyphs losing both damage and healing power.
I'm surprised powerbash still scales with damage/resource, I read the pts notes and tooltip to mean it would scale off resistances like bash damage does.
No those two don't cancel each other out in the slightest.
Bash damage glyphs add way more damage than wpn dmg glyphs.
This allows you to run 1-2 defensive sets while still having an outstanding offensive presence due to the new interactions with bash damage and power slam.
Not to mention that one doesn't need to run 3 bash glyphs in order to make power slam op and can therefore substitute the wpndmg glyphs by other means if one is looking for even more damage.
Survivability next patch is increased so heavily on almost any spec that you can substitute shortcomings from lower offensive stats by slapping on another heal.
Dunno about that. I can do a bash build *right now*, don't need powerbash for that. I used a necro bash build for a bit when they changed bash to .3s. It was not all that. I'll give it a go next patch, the build is still in my armory, but I expect to be disappointed.
Single target is just not efficient.
1-2 defensive sets? If healing is as powerful as everyone expects, if you skimp at all on offense, you won't get kills.
Flip the coin, and if healing is as powerful as everyone expects, then a 45K tool tip, might just be balanced.
Anything bash related on the live server is more than fine, I'd go so far to say that they are really healthy as they open up new ways to be effective in PvP.
Power slam on the pts however isn't fine it is completely unbalanced as it deals more damage than any other Spammables without even taking into account the additional 33% damage bonus it can acquire.
The result will be that bash, bash altering sets and bash damage glyphs will receive a nerf just because power Slam has thrown balance out of the window.
2 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Without any gear other than a one hand weapon/shield, with no champ points, passives or gear that increase the damage to bash; power slam only does 182 more damage than surprise attack. There isn’t a large difference in the base damage. Power slam picks up a bulk of its damage from the deadly bash passive. With that passive it adds about 30% damage to the attack. If anything was to be adjusted it should be the deadly bash passive.
No.
Deadly Bash is totally fine, just like bash damage glyphs or deadlands demolished.
There is only one issue and that is that the Devs randomly overbuffed power Slam.
There is no reason to change anything other than reverting the change to power Slam to be buffed by the former mentioned sources.
There isn’t a need to revert the change to make power slam function with bash enhancing items. I have looked at the numbers and they are not extreme as some people claim they are. Stacking all infused bashing glyphs, using heavy armor and the bash enhancing sets all come at cost. I have yet to see anyone post one of these “over buffed” power slam builds that isn’t just some screen cap of a tool tip damage.
I don’t think either deadly bash or power slam need to be changed based on the numbers I have seen in pts. All I am saying is if zos were going to adjust anything it would be better done at the passive level. Power slam functioning as bash allows for new build combos both currently and in the future.
Building for full bash damage is a waste, 1 set and 2 bash glyphs is all you need.
On a proper build this will still give you a +15k TT on power slam without the 33% boost.
The only thing that makes it look less op on the pts is that ZOS thought it was a good idea to shove even more buffs up the bottoms of magplars and magdks.
However it still is completely broken and desperately needs to be reverted.
A 15k tool tip means little in pvp that damage will be more than cut in half in pvp areas and then still has to deal with the targets defense and healing output. In the pvp areas where I play most players are 5k+ weapon or spell damage and that drives their healing output value. That 15K damage will become around 5k on average and be out healed in less than second.
Also using the bash glyphs and sets even if it two glyphs and one set will have impacts to the weapon/spell damage the build has. Which lower the overall healing output, damage output, and ultimate damage. Just talking about the tool tip isn’t the larger picture, if someone uses bash enhancing items, they have to sacrifice something to do so. It’s not free damage; it’s sacrificing other stats to enhance one attack.
Please log onto the pts once the maintenance is over and show us how you will survive
You have completely ignored that the power slam TT is higher than the tooltip of other Spammables while it becomes 33% stronger after blocking a single skill, your whole "damage reduced so much" shows that you haven't been on pts at all.
Using bash glyphs on SnB builds is always a net damage gain, the sacrifice is small compared to the benefits.
I didn’t ignore anything I have looked at the skills base damage and its only ~180 higher than some class spammables. It’s the deadly bash passive that adds the most damage to the attack before items. And when using bash enhancing items sacrifices are made. Trust me I survive quite well in pvp and do not need to prove anything to you.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭FragManSaul wrote: »Hi everyone,
I can share some insight on this ability and how the skill should be adjusted to work properly. I like playing with bash builds and as the images show I was able to hit a power bash of 45K and have reached 48k. I'm sure I could reach 50K quite easily if I spent more time on a build.
I managed this using a basic pvp bash build setup - Deadlands, Masters One Hand and shield, Wretched Vitality and Gaze of Sithis on a crit Khajit Nightblade build. I've built and played each class and IMO Nightblade is the strongest hitting bash class.
I've seen a few comments about stacking resistant based sets like pariah. while they are ok if you really want to increase the damage of bash more you should use % based damage sets like, Essence Thief, Kinras's Wrath etc. as you'll get more bang for your buck.
The issue with Power Bash isn't resistance or bash damage though, it is the scaling with weapon damage and stamina. I was surprised they actually included both weapon damage and stamina with the ability. You can easily increase your weapon damage with nirnhoned, Molag Kena, Markyn, etc to boost your based damage along side what you need to make a solid bash build. On top of this throw in simmering frenzy and you can hit ridiculous damage numbers as shown.
I personally believe that bash builds are in a good place and they didn't need fiddling with too much. The biggest issue with Bash builds at the moment is the lack of execute. I feel power bash can actually fill this void already. The extra 33% after block should be enough or they could actually change it to an execute ability.
The simple fix would be to remove the weapon and stamina scaling from the skill completely and just make it a bash only ability. It would play into the name and actually be viable as an ability for the niche playstyle.
platform
100% disagree with suggestion.
Power Bash is the only DPS spammable on the Sword and Board line.
Also, the game is built around making choices.
If you want damage, you stack Weapon Damage and Stamina or Spell Damage and Magicka.
Having this spammable be bash, only does nothing but box it in to very small niche.
They literally say this in the patch notes. But the point is that the bash build niche had already been filled with Deadlands and Bash Glyphs.
Making Power Bash count as bash damage will only serve to destroy the skill for anyone not investing in bash damage. This means normal Stam and Mag builds can’t use it unless they stack bash. Reason being is that they already said in the notes that the BASE damage will be nerfed. This directly and surgically kills the skill for all non-bash builds.
The point is, a bash build should only be built around the standard bash attack.
If I want to run Power Bash as my spammable on a standard DPS spec, I should be allowed to. No player should be forced to build a certain way in order for a single skill to be viable. That’s not “play how you want” works.
Edited by MindOfTheSwarm on February 14, 2022 6:00PM0 -
FragManSaul✭✭@MindOfTheSwarm ok how about this then for choice. It scales of the higher of you bash or weapon damage. Not both. If you stack it with both you’ll end up with ridiculous damage numbers. As much as I love dominating pvp with my builds I want balance. Having a spammable capable of 22k damaged in pvp is way too much.0