Unpopular opinion, Light attack weaving (the perennial bug)

BlossomDead · February 2022

How does combat feel smooth with LA weaving is beyond me. This combat system is so clunky and micro-managey it literally hurts your health. Nothing fun to it.

Foto1 · February 2022

prove it's a bug

James-Wayne · February 2022

Light attack weaving is slow and buggy, nerf the damage of light attacks to bring that ceiling down and raise the floor for DPS that have lag during fights.

Bring the whole community to the same game.

CP5 · February 2022

James-Wayne wrote: »

Light attack weaving is slow and buggy, nerf the damage of light attacks to bring that ceiling down and raise the floor for DPS that have lag during fights.

Bring the whole community to the same game.

You, realize many players who are on the lower side dps wise tend to only do light attacks, right?

Lapin_Logic · February 2022

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

As we approach update 33 and an acknowledgment has been made about the state of the servers/code, I have to ask the question, Why are we still propping up scaffolding around and duct taping a Zimmer frame to old man Light weaving?

why are we torturing ourselves to make a Beta Test Bug feel comfortable in 2022 despite the roulette wheel of "Will my skill actually fire at my target this fight" with the answer generally being "No" if you are playing with any amount of ping on your alt server account (EU/NA) or you are playing in prime time or during a high population event where even "the Imperfect" boss breaks for 2 days and your 100fps inexplicably feels like 20 (on multiple machines at multiple locations during the event)?

For my fellow players that are no doubt furiously typing that "It is more skilful to have weaving" or "But our DPS will suffer if you remove Light weaving" I would have to ask in their personal experience is it really more skilful to be absent mindedly slapping a button repeatedly while concentrating on pressing the buttons you actually want?

Is it desirable or optimal to be playing the game you love while deliberately triggering a unfixed bug multiple times in a fight while the combat is chugging and then complaining that you missed a no death run because X happened?

And we all know that any reduction in DPS due to removing light weaving would be compensated in additional damage added to skills.

So I pose the question, Would you sooner have a game that works better with no reduction in damage done or would you sooner put a drinking bird on your additional skilful bug triggering button?
I vote for a fixed game and Light attacks to be on the GCD with all the other player triggered skills...
>>>>> For now. <<<<

"Sounds like someone who cant weave."

Correction, "Sounds like someone who the server won't let weave" hence my OP, heck when I play on NA I can tap a Light attack and my toon gets stuck channeling a full charged heavy, so animation cancelling is a moot point at that instance and in fact trying to weave actually lowered my DPS significantly, wasn't this bad years ago, also hence why I signed off with "For Now" I.e. until they can make combat function as if it was fluid and intended instead of home brew glitches strung together.

Someone mentioned BDO combo system, that is what I mean, an deliberately implemented system that functions, the combos in BDO were not just accidental glitches that the players found to up their damage, And that is all I want from ESO, A proper chaining/priority system that actually implement your inputs regardless of server or load.

I am tired of settling for second best or "it will do" and frankly I am shocked the Devs thought maybe we wouldn't notice or we would be pleased by their chewing gum and sellotape "fixes" before finally admiting that they have to actually do the big job of.... making their game they want to to pay a subscription to, playable and enjoyable.

NoxiousBlight · February 2022

Honestly I believe when you press a skill there should be an option to automatically LA in the same GCD. No more weaving, the game just does it for you whenever you press 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. Press 1 and you get your skill and an automatic light attack right behind it. You could still manually do it if you want, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Would solve a lot of problems. For example, the vet DLC dungeon I landed in the other day where as the HEALER I was doing 60% of the damage with just blockade, boneyard, and heavy attacks. If LAs were automatic it would make the acid spray spammers hit at least 15k which would be painful but passable. 9 out of 10 failed PUGs I experience are because we don't have the DPS to do the dungeon.

It isn't their fault though. The game doesn't really teach you how to weave or even that you need to. Making it automatic would fix that too.

I can hit really high DPS but I really hate that weaving is a thing I have to do. Would make combat more enjoyable to not have it in the game.

J18696 · February 2022

Its actually insane people still think this is going to change weaving skills with light attacks is a intended gameplay mechanic the servers getting a rearchitecture has nothing todo with weaving and it isn't going anywhere

Jaimeh · February 2022

The thing is: if you can't do it, you can still already complete all content without it. There are plenty of heavy attack builds with good numbers out there, plus videos of people doing content with one skill on their bar, etc. Therefore, even if you don't somehow ascribe to the concept of a skill gap in a game, you are still not exluded from anything. So, then why be against it? Especially when there are so many who enjoy combat specifically because of it. And don't call it a bug, because it's not true anymore, and only serves to undermine its existence and function in the game. Which is to make it more awesome.

Merforum · February 2022

Ascarl wrote: »

IMHO ESO must create another playstyle other that LA weaving or slowly die.

Many people complain about that all builds are resulting in a similar appearance. They blame lack of class uniqueness but for me it s style uniqueness, it's all about LA 1 LA 1 LA 2 LA 1 LA 1 LA 3 Barswap LA 1 LA 2 Barswap rinse and repeat.

Great point. There are only 1 (2 in PVP) play 'styles' permitted to do damage, NB inviso ganker/bombers with insane damage and most broken skill in PVP on demand inviso, and high apm light weaving, EVERYTHING else must get NERFED.

High health/resist NERF damage
SnB/restro/ICE NERF damage
Heavy attack build NERF damage
Easy rotation build NERF damage

Play the way you want, means 6 classes, 10 races, ~4 weapons, 100s of sets, BUT ONLY ONE damage STYLE.

EDIT: please note that LA Animation Canceling gives 20-100% MORE damage than not doing it. There is a huge compounding effect of doing 10 skills AND 10 LA in the SAME 10 seconds, compared to doing 5 skills and 5 LA in 10 seconds or even 9 skills and 1 LA in 10 seconds. And when you are in ACTUAL combat not on a trial dummy these effects are even more dramatic.

summ0004 · February 2022

I think the best solution is to keep weaving as it is as it allows for more fluid combat.

But I would like to see light attack damage nerfed so it does less of your total damage.

Parasaurolophus · February 2022

Merforum wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

IMHO ESO must create another playstyle other that LA weaving or slowly die.

Many people complain about that all builds are resulting in a similar appearance. They blame lack of class uniqueness but for me it s style uniqueness, it's all about LA 1 LA 1 LA 2 LA 1 LA 1 LA 3 Barswap LA 1 LA 2 Barswap rinse and repeat.

Great point. There are only 1 (2 in PVP) play 'styles' permitted to do damage, NB inviso ganker/bombers with insane damage and most broken skill in PVP on demand inviso, and high apm light weaving, EVERYTHING else must get NERFED.

High health/resist NERF damage
SnB/restro/ICE NERF damage
Heavy attack build NERF damage

Play the way you want, means 6 classes, 10 races, ~4 weapons, 100s of sets, BUT ONLY ONE damage STYLE.

You have a style - play without weaving and do only 15% less damage. This is a small loss.

Charon_on_Vacation · February 2022

NoxiousBlight wrote: »

Honestly I believe when you press a skill there should be an option to automatically LA in the same GCD. No more weaving, the game just does it for you whenever you press 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. Press 1 and you get your skill and an automatic light attack right behind it. You could still manually do it if you want, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Would solve a lot of problems. For example, the vet DLC dungeon I landed in the other day where as the HEALER I was doing 60% of the damage with just blockade, boneyard, and heavy attacks. If LAs were automatic it would make the acid spray spammers hit at least 15k which would be painful but passable. 9 out of 10 failed PUGs I experience are because we don't have the DPS to do the dungeon.

It isn't their fault though. The game doesn't really teach you how to weave or even that you need to. Making it automatic would fix that too.

I can hit really high DPS but I really hate that weaving is a thing I have to do. Would make combat more enjoyable to not have it in the game.

Auto-Attack was the system used in alpha stage, when the game was more or less a WoW Clone when it came to combat.
To change that, they changed the auto-attack from automatically attacking into a button press.
This is the reason why it has its own cd, they didn't integrate it into the ability system. They just changed it from automatically attacking into a button press, never thinking about the consequences this might have.
players that wanted to max out their damage realized that those light attacks were not on the same cd as other abilities, thus weaving was born.

remosito · February 2022

I dont mind LA weaving existing.

But what I think is busted is the dps difference between a perfectly weaved rotation and a not so well done one.

Yes. Higher skill should give higher dps. But I think that should give an extra 20%. Not an extra 100%..

How to adjust the difference?

Maybe skills, attacks should give more or less dmg depending on how much of the animation has played out?

CP5 · February 2022

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

colossalvoids · February 2022

I'd just add a bit to the latest comment reminding that LA's damage was bumped up in Summerset to actually raise the floor and not to make endgame players stronger for whatever reason. Newbies are mostly inclined to spam them so nerfing it's current damage would be going against the goal.

remosito · February 2022

CP5 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

Well partially at least. Can any class mag/sta combo achieve 100k with just skills?

So all those ppl replying to all those threads of the "my dps sucks in the sub 40k range. need help" kind with "you just need to dummyhump until your weave is perfect". Are kinda really off. What should be taught/learned first and foremost is. "Get your rotation down to a T. Then improve your weave"..

would give much more improvement much faster and easier..

Faulgor · February 2022

Ascarl wrote: »

IMHO ESO must create another playstyle other that LA weaving or slowly die.

Many people complain about that all builds are resulting in a similar appearance. They blame lack of class uniqueness but for me it s style uniqueness, it's all about LA 1 LA 1 LA 2 LA 1 LA 1 LA 3 Barswap LA 1 LA 2 Barswap rinse and repeat.

This right here is my main issue. Even heavy attack builds use more light attacks than heavy attacks, it all feels so samey.
Maybe they could start by adding combos to consecutive light attacks.
Even rotations like LA > LA > LA > Skill would be a breath of fresh air. Virtually every modern game does something like this, where you can strike with a weapon several times and each successive hit will be slightly different, either in effect or damage. And/or speed up the base attack speed, we know that's possible because of the Blood Moon set and the old weighted trait.

Foto1 wrote: »

prove it's a bug

It certainly wasn't intended for people to use it this way. Does that qualify as a bug?
I don't think so, but it doesn't really speak favorably about ZOS' game design, either. Most of it could be summed up as "embraced accidents".

CP5 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

Well, the percentage light attacks contribute to your damage also largely depends on ... the rest of your damage and rotation. Many people who don't have a proper rotation could profit significantly more from adding light attacks into their, e.g., snipe spam, than somebody who already keeps all his DoTs up and the like.
So, depending on the rest of your skills, it could very well add 100% DPS ... but that also means that statement by itself is meaningless. From my experience, bar swapping and dynamic rotations are a much bigger obstacle than weaving (except for some skills that are just wonky as hell).

Blackstar242 · February 2022

While I don't want to beat the dead horse, what I would like is for ZOS to legitimize Light Attack Weaving once and for all and add an official tutorial or training section in the welcome to ESO combat at character creation like they do with Bashing, Breaking Free, Heavy Attacking and so on.

Bug or feature is not important at this point, it's part of the game and to many game mechanics weather we realize it or not are bound to DPS checks that include the 10-15% from LA weaving.

Just be done with it and provide a way to teach people what it is and how to do and how to properly train your mind set for it.

I personally can finally weave after about two years of playing and I don't feel any better or worse for wear, I just feel that I can contribute to the success of my team more now.

Thats all, TL:DR: ZOS added a tutorial for how to Light Weave.

MudcrabAttack · February 2022

remosito wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

Well partially at least. Can any class mag/sta combo achieve 100k with just skills?

So all those ppl replying to all those threads of the "my dps sucks in the sub 40k range. need help" kind with "you just need to dummyhump until your weave is perfect". Are kinda really off. What should be taught/learned first and foremost is. "Get your rotation down to a T. Then improve your weave"..

would give much more improvement much faster and easier..

I got nightblade up to 93k on update 32 without any light attacks using both magic and stamina skills. I’m thinking maybe warden and Templar could do it easier with this update, sorc is iffy since they rely a lot on their thick ultimate damage, no idea for dragonknight since that rotation hurts my brain but their ultimate is kind of important too. Without any weapon attacks there wouldn’t be much ultimate gain

Faulgor wrote: »

Well, the percentage light attacks contribute to your damage also largely depends on ... the rest of your damage and rotation. Many people who don't have a proper rotation could profit significantly more from adding light attacks into their, e.g., snipe spam, than somebody who already keeps all his DoTs up and the like.
So, depending on the rest of your skills, it could very well add 100% DPS ... but that also means that statement by itself is meaningless. From my experience, bar swapping and dynamic rotations are a much bigger obstacle than weaving (except for some skills that are just wonky as hell).

There’s some truth as far as bows and snipe spam go. As long as Hawk Eye passive exists people really shouldn’t not light attack weave or else they suffer the consequences of no 25% damage buff.

On the flip side of that topic, players trying to weave light attacks around snipe might not see much gain, if any, if they can’t master weaving lethal arrow and light attacks better than once every 1.5 seconds or so. With a full dot rotation that needs to be better than every 1.3- 1.4 seconds. Weaving bow light attacks can be more of a pain than other weapon types, so some people might just assume (correctly if their weaving is worse than every 1.5 seconds) that they’re hitting the most damage by sticking snipe on a mouse wheel control and rolling it up all the time

Hawkeye is the reason that you always encounter extremes with archers. They’re either weaving poorly and hitting low numbers, spamming a thing and doing pretty badly, or quickly demolishing things. There’s not much middle ground, although technically the best bow parses on pts are beginning to feel like middle ground now. Better off with a flame staff

Foto1 · February 2022

Faulgor wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

IMHO ESO must create another playstyle other that LA weaving or slowly die.

Many people complain about that all builds are resulting in a similar appearance. They blame lack of class uniqueness but for me it s style uniqueness, it's all about LA 1 LA 1 LA 2 LA 1 LA 1 LA 3 Barswap LA 1 LA 2 Barswap rinse and repeat.

This right here is my main issue. Even heavy attack builds use more light attacks than heavy attacks, it all feels so samey.
Maybe they could start by adding combos to consecutive light attacks.
Even rotations like LA > LA > LA > Skill would be a breath of fresh air. Virtually every modern game does something like this, where you can strike with a weapon several times and each successive hit will be slightly different, either in effect or damage. And/or speed up the base attack speed, we know that's possible because of the Blood Moon set and the old weighted trait.

Foto1 wrote: »

prove it's a bug

It certainly wasn't intended for people to use it this way. Does that qualify as a bug?
I don't think so, but it doesn't really speak favorably about ZOS' game design, either. Most of it could be summed up as "embraced accidents".

CP5 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

Well, the percentage light attacks contribute to your damage also largely depends on ... the rest of your damage and rotation. Many people who don't have a proper rotation could profit significantly more from adding light attacks into their, e.g., snipe spam, than somebody who already keeps all his DoTs up and the like.
So, depending on the rest of your skills, it could very well add 100% DPS ... but that also means that statement by itself is meaningless. From my experience, bar swapping and dynamic rotations are a much bigger obstacle than weaving (except for some skills that are just wonky as hell).

your words are not proof

xylena_lazarow · February 2022

This is not an "unpopular opinion" it shows up all the time from a certain segment of the non-competitive population that has some very strong opinions on how the game should be played. I'm not really one for sweaty high-apm gaming anymore, but this game would be pretty slow and miserable if literally everything was forced onto the 1sec gcd, never mind the massive overhaul they'd have to do to make all the intended off-gcd abilities balanced and working properly.

Animation cancelling is not required outside competitive content, you can do all Overworld and Normal content without it. Those hungering for turn-based Elder Scrolls should enjoy the card game coming with the new chapter. FWIW they do really need to revert the PTS nerf to lightning heavy attack builds in PvE, no reason to further nerf low-apm players.

Madhatten512 · February 2022

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

As we approach update 33 and an acknowledgment has been made about the state of the servers/code, I have to ask the question, Why are we still propping up scaffolding around and duct taping a Zimmer frame to old man Light weaving?

why are we torturing ourselves to make a Beta Test Bug feel comfortable in 2022 despite the roulette wheel of "Will my skill actually fire at my target this fight" with the answer generally being "No" if you are playing with any amount of ping on your alt server account (EU/NA) or you are playing in prime time or during a high population event where even "the Imperfect" boss breaks for 2 days and your 100fps inexplicably feels like 20 (on multiple machines at multiple locations during the event)?

For my fellow players that are no doubt furiously typing that "It is more skilful to have weaving" or "But our DPS will suffer if you remove Light weaving" I would have to ask in their personal experience is it really more skilful to be absent mindedly slapping a button repeatedly while concentrating on pressing the buttons you actually want?

Is it desirable or optimal to be playing the game you love while deliberately triggering a unfixed bug multiple times in a fight while the combat is chugging and then complaining that you missed a no death run because X happened?

And we all know that any reduction in DPS due to removing light weaving would be compensated in additional damage added to skills.

So I pose the question, Would you sooner have a game that works better with no reduction in damage done or would you sooner put a drinking bird on your additional skilful bug triggering button?
I vote for a fixed game and Light attacks to be on the GCD with all the other player triggered skills...
>>>>> For now. <<<<

Combat would feel awful. Might as well play WoW. They have already butchered a lot of the animation canceling because causal players couldn't be bothered to learn how to do it so they jumped on the forums and cried enough to get cast times added to ultimate's and block and bash canceling screwed up. Now you don't even want to light/heavy attack weave??? Lets just turn ESO into turn based combat. I hate to tell you light attacks are not what makes the server bog down either. Instead of screwing up the combat even more why don't we look at off healing again. When healing and buffs where confined to group members only the game was noticeably better, but again solo healing forums warriors got that reverted too. Can we just stop trying to dumb down the combat anymore than it already has been please for the love of god.

xylena_lazarow · February 2022

Madhatten512 wrote: »

When healing and buffs where confined to group members only the game was noticeably better, but again solo healing forums warriors got that reverted too.

TBF this is like the competitive group player's version of "delete animation cancelling" in that it actually has a terrible effect on the game, widening the floor/ceiling power gap and making PvP even more hostile to randoms and pugs who are already getting wrecked by optimized groups. And those casual solos don't suddenly git gud and form optimized groups, half of them end up quitting, the other half rushes the forums demanding to be able to zerg surf heal again, and the PvP population further dwindles...

Merforum · February 2022

remosito wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

Well partially at least. Can any class mag/sta combo achieve 100k with just skills?

So all those ppl replying to all those threads of the "my dps sucks in the sub 40k range. need help" kind with "you just need to dummyhump until your weave is perfect". Are kinda really off. What should be taught/learned first and foremost is. "Get your rotation down to a T. Then improve your weave"..

would give much more improvement much faster and easier..

The problem with the gatekeepers is that are talking about apples and oranges. EVERY single 'proof' they have is based off beating up a TRIAL DUMMY WITH EVERY BUFF, using sets and skills rarely used that way (siroria, spamming frags) in REAL content just to make a point. EVEN in those completely RIGGED tests LA weaving accounts for more than 20% increase in damage because of the COMPOUNDED effect from weaving.

But for 95% of players who never dummy hump, the increase is even more astounding. Yes if I do 10-15K DPS with a non-optimized build/rotation, merely adding LA weaving can double that. I've even gone from 15K to 25K just by adding LA AC on my spammable and nothing else. Some may say wow just adding LA weaving to low to mid rotation can double your DPS, that is a good thing, but I think having a better build/rotation should result in that huge benefit more than LA weaving.

No one is complaining about working on a better build or rotation to get better DPS, everyone wants that. The point is, do we want to maintain a very clunky, counterintuitive bug, that is hard enough for many people that they can't or don't want to do it. And makes playing with high DPS very hard for people with disabilities. And OK as these dudes keep saying it only gives 10-15% DPS or they can do without it completely, OK WHY so adamant about keeping it. I propose put LA on same GCD then bump up damage by 10-15% EVERYONE WINS.

Tannus15 · February 2022

different builds and classes benefit more or less based on light attack weaving, but it's been shown time and again that you can hit good/decent numbers on literally any class if you're not doing any light attacks.

@Merforum light attack being on the GCD would make the game feel clunky and unresponsive which is why hardly anyone wants it. certainly no one who has actually taken the time to perfect their weave.

what I don't understand is why there is not a strong sub-culture for non light attack weave focused dps?
why aren't you guys putting your heads together and working out solid builds and meta for those who can't light weave for either physical of philosophical reasons?
every time this comes up on PTS (which is literally every PTS) I see a bunch of end game guys posting some parses showing it can be done with literally no light attacks while you guys ask for the game to be changed to your preference.

Merforum · February 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

different builds and classes benefit more or less based on light attack weaving, but it's been shown time and again that you can hit good/decent numbers on literally any class if you're not doing any light attacks.

@Merforum light attack being on the GCD would make the game feel clunky and unresponsive which is why hardly anyone wants it. certainly no one who has actually taken the time to perfect their weave.

what I don't understand is why there is not a strong sub-culture for non light attack weave focused dps?
why aren't you guys putting your heads together and working out solid builds and meta for those who can't light weave for either physical of philosophical reasons?
every time this comes up on PTS (which is literally every PTS) I see a bunch of end game guys posting some parses showing it can be done with literally no light attacks while you guys ask for the game to be changed to your preference.

Just because you are used to it doesn't mean it is good or fluid and using it is actually clunky, which is what every single person says until they get good at it. As a teenager I never drank beer because it tastes terrible, but lots of friends did and as adults they think it tastes good but NO it still tastes terrible they're just used to it (smoking and rap music is same thing)

.

But like you keep saying everything is possible without LA AC so why so adamant about not removing it. I'm biased since I have arthritis and can't physically do sustained button mashing, but since every other game I know about frowns on animation cancelling you can't really claim that it is perfectly legit. The problem with animation cancelling in ESO is that you get the effect of both actions, it should be perfectly valid to block, dodge, bash, swap and cancel an animation but it should ALSO cancel the ACTION. Imagine in real life you have a big sword and about to hit someone with your best attack, but in the middle you realize you have to block, don't worry you get to block and the attack STILL WORKS WHAT. It's just stupid. BTW people don't just use this stuff in an emergency but they have learned how to exploit these glitches for massive advantages.

What I think most games go for is a healthy mix of using you mental skills and physical skills, but combat in ESO is very biased toward only physical skills like 90/10 actually. As an example New World makes you actually have to think while also mash buttons, throughout every fight and you will do different stuff in different situations. ESO it is the same rotation in PVE, and PVP is just either your damage combo or you defensive combo, very little thinking is involved. Some people have said that the LA either should just be added to every skill so you don't have to do it or put LA on the same GCD and buff LA and/or skills damage to make up for loss. Since there would be no loss in DPS at high end and everyone else would be raised, the only objection can be gatekeeping.

Tannus15 · February 2022

As a teenager I never drank beer because it tastes terrible, but lots of friends did and as adults they think it tastes good but NO it still tastes terrible they're just used to it (smoking and rap music is same thing)

So we should get rid of beer and rap music? Mate, lots of people genuinely like beer. I like some rap music. I also really like the way light attacks interact with skills in this game. It's way better than the way auto attack / tab target mmo's work like wow and I think it's awesome that you have a resource free method of attack that you can always fall back on and interrupt with your skills and abilities.

You are proposing to fundamentally change the way combat works in this game, which a bunch of people like, because you, personally, don't like it. I don't like coffee. I guess we should get rid of that too...

CP5 · February 2022

Faulgor wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

IMHO ESO must create another playstyle other that LA weaving or slowly die.

Many people complain about that all builds are resulting in a similar appearance. They blame lack of class uniqueness but for me it s style uniqueness, it's all about LA 1 LA 1 LA 2 LA 1 LA 1 LA 3 Barswap LA 1 LA 2 Barswap rinse and repeat.

This right here is my main issue. Even heavy attack builds use more light attacks than heavy attacks, it all feels so samey.
Maybe they could start by adding combos to consecutive light attacks.
Even rotations like LA > LA > LA > Skill would be a breath of fresh air. Virtually every modern game does something like this, where you can strike with a weapon several times and each successive hit will be slightly different, either in effect or damage. And/or speed up the base attack speed, we know that's possible because of the Blood Moon set and the old weighted trait.

Foto1 wrote: »

prove it's a bug

It certainly wasn't intended for people to use it this way. Does that qualify as a bug?
I don't think so, but it doesn't really speak favorably about ZOS' game design, either. Most of it could be summed up as "embraced accidents".

CP5 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

For what it's worth you don't really have to light attack or heavy attack anymore to hit 100k, that's neat I guess

From an update 33 feedback thread, please don't exaggerate saying "it shouldn't give an extra 100% dps," if that were the case then people would be hitting 200k right now and that is definitely not true. Taking a glance at one of the logs from a recent trial run, just plucking numbers at random, I see light attacks accounting for 10-15% of the damage of the hardest hitting members of my group. So please, of future discussion, light attack weaving is indeed bonus damage that doesn't cost resources to do, but it is nothing compared to properly managing your rotation and resources throughout a fight.

Well, the percentage light attacks contribute to your damage also largely depends on ... the rest of your damage and rotation. Many people who don't have a proper rotation could profit significantly more from adding light attacks into their, e.g., snipe spam, than somebody who already keeps all his DoTs up and the like.
So, depending on the rest of your skills, it could very well add 100% DPS ... but that also means that statement by itself is meaningless. From my experience, bar swapping and dynamic rotations are a much bigger obstacle than weaving (except for some skills that are just wonky as hell).

On one of those boss fights I checked, our highest damage dealer had 10% of their damage chalked up to light attacks. They're skilled, so one can assume as skill increases, the impact light attacks have on one's rotation decreases. If, which I've seen this in random dungeon runs before, a dps just stands in the back line shooting poison arrow every other second, adding a light attack between them could well double their dps. So, if, as some think in this thread, you were to nerf light attacks, you would just end up hurting the players who focus on just light attacking.

As per your idea of using multiple light attacks between skills, nothing in game encourages this other than a poorly thought out mythic, and the kena monster helm. There aren't attack combos, where say, the 3rd consecutive light attack is essentially a free cast of some ability, and as long as that's the case many players feel that just poking enemies with light attacks alone is very meek and disengaging.

Merforum · February 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

As a teenager I never drank beer because it tastes terrible, but lots of friends did and as adults they think it tastes good but NO it still tastes terrible they're just used to it (smoking and rap music is same thing)

So we should get rid of beer and rap music? Mate, lots of people genuinely like beer. I like some rap music. I also really like the way light attacks interact with skills in this game. It's way better than the way auto attack / tab target mmo's work like wow and I think it's awesome that you have a resource free method of attack that you can always fall back on and interrupt with your skills and abilities.

You are proposing to fundamentally change the way combat works in this game, which a bunch of people like, because you, personally, don't like it. I don't like coffee. I guess we should get rid of that too...

Way to miss the point, which is getting used to something makes your opinion on it extremely biased. And just because YOU like something that 90% of people don't or can't do is not enough reason to force everyone to be at a huge disadvantage for not doing it. Imagine thinking that changing something that less than 10% do is a FUNDAMENTAL change.

BTW I am crashing 2-4 times a day so all this stuff is Moot until they fix many problems.

ARAL_TFORC · February 2022

lol i kinda think light attack weaving is a cool concept, and it gives me more connection to the combat than just casting skill and wait for the animation time. you gotta think of something to exchange for light attack weaving if you want to remove it. something that makes you feel involved as weaving and give the corresponding dmg reward.