Yes but obviously that means you’re changing traders too.
Basically you are talking about DAOC’s version which some of the team came from.

https://darkageofcamelot.com/housing/special-objects

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think driving traffic to your personal guild store would and should be a player's own responsibility. I don't support an auction house like feature nor should it work like guild traders where strangers you didn't invite can go inside and buy things.

People already drive trade to their homes successfully with things like furniture stores. Just have the vendor in your house and people can visit it or not.

There has to be an efficient way to advertise what you have for sale, otherwise players won't know which houses to visit.

You just say you have stuff for sale in zone chat, guild chat, etc. You can also edit your guild note to say it.

This type of trade is already common

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think driving traffic to your personal guild store would and should be a player's own responsibility. I don't support an auction house like feature nor should it work like guild traders where strangers you didn't invite can go inside and buy things.

People already drive trade to their homes successfully with things like furniture stores. Just have the vendor in your house and people can visit it or not.

There has to be an efficient way to advertise what you have for sale, otherwise players won't know which houses to visit.

You just say you have stuff for sale in zone chat, guild chat, etc. You can also edit your guild note to say it.

This type of trade is already common

I don't think chat is an efficient way to advertise. So we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

Guild notes are only visible by members of the guild. So that wouldn't reach out to people outside your guild or be of much use to anyone who doesn't belong to a guild.

A house trader should not be a substitute for a guild trader. It should be something you do additionally to the guild trade system.

Asking for it to be more than that is just asking for a roundabout auction house system.

Housing is already for the use of your guilds, groups, and friends. You can invite others over but they have to have your permission to enter. That's how it's designed. It's not for random people to just stumble on.

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think driving traffic to your personal guild store would and should be a player's own responsibility. I don't support an auction house like feature nor should it work like guild traders where strangers you didn't invite can go inside and buy things.

People already drive trade to their homes successfully with things like furniture stores. Just have the vendor in your house and people can visit it or not.

There has to be an efficient way to advertise what you have for sale, otherwise players won't know which houses to visit.

You just say you have stuff for sale in zone chat, guild chat, etc. You can also edit your guild note to say it.

This type of trade is already common

I don't think chat is an efficient way to advertise. So we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

Guild notes are only visible by members of the guild. So that wouldn't reach out to people outside your guild or be of much use to anyone who doesn't belong to a guild.

A house trader should not be a substitute for a guild trader. It should be something you do additionally to the guild trade system.

Asking for it to be more than that is just asking for a roundabout auction house system.

Guild traders would still have the best locations and the most merchandise. So personal traders wouldn't replace them.

And personal traders are no more a roundabout auction house than guild traders currently are. So I don't understand what you're saying there.

For example let's look at Snugpod.

It's a cheap home in a prime location, so it would be fairly trivial for anyone serious about trading to own.

If you could walk up to snugpod and look at the listings of anyone who owned it, it would likely effectively end up an auction house with thousands of users. Sure you'd have to browse to see who's house you wanted to enter, but a loading screen would be a trivial barrier.

I actually very much doubt that this Snugpod trader wouldn't be better than the guild trader in quality either as many more people can own Snugpod than can join any particular guild.

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think driving traffic to your personal guild store would and should be a player's own responsibility. I don't support an auction house like feature nor should it work like guild traders where strangers you didn't invite can go inside and buy things.

People already drive trade to their homes successfully with things like furniture stores. Just have the vendor in your house and people can visit it or not.

There has to be an efficient way to advertise what you have for sale, otherwise players won't know which houses to visit.

You just say you have stuff for sale in zone chat, guild chat, etc. You can also edit your guild note to say it.

This type of trade is already common

I don't think chat is an efficient way to advertise. So we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

Guild notes are only visible by members of the guild. So that wouldn't reach out to people outside your guild or be of much use to anyone who doesn't belong to a guild.

A house trader should not be a substitute for a guild trader. It should be something you do additionally to the guild trade system.

Asking for it to be more than that is just asking for a roundabout auction house system.

Guild traders would still have the best locations and the most merchandise. So personal traders wouldn't replace them.

And personal traders are no more a roundabout auction house than guild traders currently are. So I don't understand what you're saying there.

For example let's look at Snugpod.

It's a cheap home in a prime location, so it would be fairly trivial for anyone serious about trading to own.

If you could walk up to snugpod and look at the listings of anyone who owned it, it would likely effectively end up an auction house with thousands of users. Sure you'd have to browse to see who's house you wanted to enter, but a loading screen would be a trivial barrier to entering the house.

If that's the case: then why don't you consider the guild traders in Elden Root an auction house?

Because only 500 people can join a guild. The entire server could own Snugpod if they wanted. And it would all be listed on Snugpod's interface

Raideen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I understand a lot of guilds have a house that is owned by a player they consider to be a guild house and I am not arguing that point and that is not what I am saying. If the player that owns the home leaves the guild or the game the home nor the contents can be transferred to another player in that guild because it is a de facto player home regardless of what we want it to be. It is just the way it is unless Zenimax chooses to make actual guild homes and I think they should.

And this is why I said their would need to be an option for guild leadership to have a "guild house" added to the list of guild owners along with "primary residence". The players who own guild homes in practice, almost universally are part of the guild organization. Husband wife teams etc.

Amottica wrote: »

As for the developer comment, a guildmate had commented the said that in one of their streams when I was asking why the banker does allow me to see the guild bank or guild trader. So yes, have probably spent too much time watching some feeds. I tried searching for it but searching for comments in a video does not work very well.

Ohh, ok so Zenmimax did not comment specifically on this particular topic. Ok good, nice to know that a suggestion such as the OP's has not been ruled out.

Amottica wrote: »

As for the rest that is not related to those two items, I respect your opinion as I expect you do the same for mine. I think we have made our thoughts on the matter clear. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I have never disrespected your opinion. Not sure where that is coming from. I have been nothing but cordial and inviting.

Was not intending to suggest you were disrespectful or even came off as such. It is why I suggested you do the same (respect) my mine. Again, thanks for sharing.

Also, I was clear that Zenimax, according to my guildmate, did comment on why there were not going to increase functionality in homes that are found in cities because they want players to have a reason to go to such cities. The only clarity I added was that I was not going to search the internet for this as it was apparently in one of their streams. Hard to search for that. Not concerned if anyone believes they said it or not, or even if my guildmate is right or wrong since it does not change anything of value. However, it does make a lot of sense.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can check their listings on TTC and then go to the one that has it. What's the difference?

I am on console, there is no TTC. TTC's goal is to effectively make an auction house of the guild trade system, isn't it? I thought someone stated this was the mission statement of one of these apps.

I actually think console's economy is much healthier than PC's due to the lack of things like TTC and other add-ons. But that's a discussion for another thread.

So you're saying TTC is basically like a round about auction house then?

Fair enough. I've made that same argument so I can't disagree with you there. It's also why I'm critical of people who are opposed to an auction house yet use TTC. I was just wanting to hear you say it so we could stop singling out personal traders as if they would somehow be any different.

We do disagree about that being unhealthy for the economy though. I think TTC is the only thing that makes the guild trader system workable. I honestly don't know how you guys on console put up with it. But at least you're consistent. So I can respect that.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think driving traffic to your personal guild store would and should be a player's own responsibility. I don't support an auction house like feature nor should it work like guild traders where strangers you didn't invite can go inside and buy things.

People already drive trade to their homes successfully with things like furniture stores. Just have the vendor in your house and people can visit it or not.

There has to be an efficient way to advertise what you have for sale, otherwise players won't know which houses to visit.

You just say you have stuff for sale in zone chat, guild chat, etc. You can also edit your guild note to say it.

This type of trade is already common

I don't think chat is an efficient way to advertise. So we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

Guild notes are only visible by members of the guild. So that wouldn't reach out to people outside your guild or be of much use to anyone who doesn't belong to a guild.

A house trader should not be a substitute for a guild trader. It should be something you do additionally to the guild trade system.

Asking for it to be more than that is just asking for a roundabout auction house system.

Guild traders would still have the best locations and the most merchandise. So personal traders wouldn't replace them.

And personal traders are no more a roundabout auction house than guild traders currently are. So I don't understand what you're saying there.

For example let's look at Snugpod.

It's a cheap home in a prime location, so it would be fairly trivial for anyone serious about trading to own.

If you could walk up to snugpod and look at the listings of anyone who owned it, it would likely effectively end up an auction house with thousands of users. Sure you'd have to browse to see who's house you wanted to enter, but a loading screen would be a trivial barrier to entering the house.

If that's the case: then why don't you consider the guild traders in Elden Root an auction house?

Because only 500 people can join a guild. The entire server could own Snugpod if they wanted. And it would all be listed on Snugpod's interface

OK. But what about guild traders in general?

You can simply check their listings on TTC then go to the one that has the item you are looking for.

How is that different?

I think you missed my response

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can check their listings on TTC and then go to the one that has it. What's the difference?

I am on console, there is no TTC. TTC's goal is to effectively make an auction house of the guild trade system, isn't it? I thought someone stated this was the mission statement of one of these apps.

I actually think console's economy is much healthier than PC's due to the lack of things like TTC and other add-ons. But that's a discussion for another thread.

I saw it after I wrote that. I think what happened is you responded very quickly to my post before I edited it because I misunderstood your argument at first and changed it to better address what you were saying.

If they are going to buy extra server space for all these extra auction houses, I would rather they use that extra space to give homes more item slots.

Stop trying to give homes more functionality, especially when it is so easy to join a guild that has a trader.

All of these suggested things undermine the need for guilds, that is bad for an mmo.

All of these suggestions are solutions in search of a problem.
Just join a guild. It is easy. You get access to the trader in any city, you don’t need to travel to your home, you won’t have strangers in your home, and it won’t break the game economy.

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can check their listings on TTC and then go to the one that has it. What's the difference?

I am on console, there is no TTC. TTC's goal is to effectively make an auction house of the guild trade system, isn't it? I thought someone stated this was the mission statement of one of these apps.

I actually think console's economy is much healthier than PC's due to the lack of things like TTC and other add-ons. But that's a discussion for another thread.

So you're saying TTC is basically like a round about auction house then?

Fair enough. I've made that same argument so I can't disagree with you there. I was just wanting to hear you say it so we could stop singling out personal traders as if they would somehow be any different.

We do disagree about that being unhealthy for the economy though. I think TTC is the only thing that makes the guild trader system workable. I honestly don't know how you guys on console put up with it.

I wasn't singling out those traders, as on console there's no TTC. It doesn't even enter my head as a point about the economy because it's a nonfactor here. We don't have anything that's like an auction house on console.

We manage just fine. It's really easy to find items. Basically people go to major trading hubs for what is basically considered the standard prices of items. Mournhold, Wayrest, and Elden Root. Then there are the big secondary markets like Vardenfell, Craglorn, R'awlkhala, etc. These often have a bit less selection but somewhat better prices. You go to the smaller traders out in the wild if you're trying to find something for pretty cheap. But that's a pretty random toss of the die as a lot of those traders just list stuff for the same prices as the stuff in major trading areas or may go the opposite way and be more expensive, as those traders tend to be run by less experienced trading guilds.

Buying and selling are very easy, but the kind of big money market control is significantly harder. As you actually have to hunt for items to relist. As a result, it's flipping items that becomes way harder not selling goods you have earned or buying for standard prices.

And flipping is what pushes the prices up so much on PC, IMO. Well, it's one factor out of many.

Let's look at some console prices at a couple major traders in Grahtwood.

Crowns are 100 per and have been for years

Tempering Alloy is 3k per.
Kuta is 4k per
Dreugh Wax is 4.5k per
Rosin is 5k per
Perfect Roe is 13k per
Flour is 20k for a stack
Elegant Lining is 20k a stack
Frost Mirriam is 17k a stack
Grain Solvent is 30k a stack
Mastic is 800 per (due to housing)
Zircon Platings are 30k each
Bervez Juice is 40k a stack
Dragonthorn is 10k a stack
CornFlower is 70k a stack
Essence of Weapon Power is 18500 (wep damage, weapon crit, restore stam)
Essence of Spell Power is 38k (spell damage, spell crit, restore mag)

I think these are all pretty popular items to use. People can generally get the items they need for regular play. And also afford some nice cosmetics on the crown store with just fairly regular play. The big items are what people save for.

How are the prices of these items on PC? Generally cheaper or more expensive?

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can check their listings on TTC and then go to the one that has it. What's the difference?

I am on console, there is no TTC. TTC's goal is to effectively make an auction house of the guild trade system, isn't it? I thought someone stated this was the mission statement of one of these apps.

I actually think console's economy is much healthier than PC's due to the lack of things like TTC and other add-ons. But that's a discussion for another thread.

So you're saying TTC is basically like a round about auction house then?

Fair enough. I've made that same argument so I can't disagree with you there. I was just wanting to hear you say it so we could stop singling out personal traders as if they would somehow be any different.

We do disagree about that being unhealthy for the economy though. I think TTC is the only thing that makes the guild trader system workable. I honestly don't know how you guys on console put up with it.

I wasn't singling out those traders, as on console there's no TTC. It doesn't even enter my head as a point about the economy because it's a nonfactor here. We don't have anything that's like an auction house on console.

We manage just fine. It's really easy to find items. Basically people go to major trading hubs for what is basically considered the standard prices of items. Mournhold, Wayrest, and Elden Root. Then there are the big secondary markets like Vardenfell, Craglorn, R'awlkhala, etc. These often have a bit less selection but somewhat better prices. You go to the smaller traders out in the wild if you're trying to find something for pretty cheap. But that's a pretty random toss of the die as a lot of those traders just list stuff for the same prices as the stuff in major trading areas or may go the opposite way and be more expensive, as those traders tend to be run by less experienced trading guilds.

Buying and selling are very easy, but the kind of big money market control is significantly harder. As you actually have to hunt for items to relist. As a result, it's flipping items that becomes way harder not selling goods you have earned or buying for standard prices.

And flipping is what pushes the prices up so much on PC, IMO. Well, it's one factor out of many.

Let's look at some console prices at a couple major traders

Crowns are 100 per and have been for years

Tempering Alloy is 3k per.
Kuta is 4k per
Dreugh Wax is 4.5k per
Rosin is 5k per
Perfect Roe is 13k per
Flour is 20k for a stack
Elegant Lining is 20k a stack
Frost Mirriam is 17k a stack
Grain Solvent is 30k a stack
Mastic is 800 per (due to housing)
Zircon Platings are 30k each
Bervez Juice is 40k a stack
Dragonthorn is 10k a stack
CornFlower is 70k a stack
Essence of Weapon Power is 18500 (wep damage, weapon crit, restore stam)
Essence of Spell Power is 38k (spell damage, spell crit, restore mag)

I think these are all pretty popular items to use. People can generally get the items they need for regular play. And also afford some nice cosmetics on the crown store with just fairly regular play. The big items are what people save for.

How are the prices of these items on PC? Generally cheaper or more expensive?

I meant singling them out in relation to TTC, and how they would somewhere be the equivalent of an auction house yet guild traders aren't. You weren't saying that. But I wanted you to make that clear because someone who wasn't aware you were on console could have interpreted your comments that way.

I've been playing this game since before they had TTC and it was a nightmare to find things I wanted. I once spent over 2 hours looking for a specific motif before I said to hell with this and quit using it. They're adequate for finding general items widely available. But for rarer goods it's a terrible system that doesn't take into proper consideration a player's time and assumes they have all day to spend shopping for imaginary items on a video game.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

They're adequate for finding general items widely available. But for rarer goods it's a terrible system that doesn't take into proper consideration a player's time and assumes they have all day to spend shopping for imaginary items on a video game.

Eh. I think it's a fair tradeoff for the generally better prices on console. There's way less flipping going on and browsing small traders can often make you find a good deal, which can be a fun surprise.

Flipping is a problem, and probably the primary reason a number of TTC users don't support just adding an auction house. But at least I can usually find a specific item I'm looking for - outside of general crafting materials - within a reasonable amount of time without having to navigate a hundred different vendors and dozens of load screens. So if I have to pay more to avoid that headache I'll gladly do so.

I'm not one of those people who enjoy shopping different vendors looking for a good deal or a fun surprise. But if you are, then I can understand why you like the system.

Jeremy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

They're adequate for finding general items widely available. But for rarer goods it's a terrible system that doesn't take into proper consideration a player's time and assumes they have all day to spend shopping for imaginary items on a video game.

Eh. I think it's a fair tradeoff for the generally better prices on console. There's way less flipping going on and browsing small traders can often make you find a good deal, which can be a fun surprise.

Flipping is a problem, and probably the primary reason a number of TTC users don't support just adding an auction house. But at least I can usually find a specific item I'm looking for - outside of general crafting materials - within a reasonable amount of time without having to navigate a hundred different vendors and dozens of load screens. So if I have to pay more to avoid that headache I'll gladly do so.

I'm not one of those people who enjoy shopping different vendors looking for a good deal or a fun surprise. But if you are, then I can understand why you like the system.

How is flipping a problem? The person listing the item got what they requested and the person that purchases the item when it is listed again gets what they wanted. I do not know how this is a problem as I have seen it happen in other games where friends found a good deal, purchased it, and listed it again for a gain.