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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
If it meant they could add more classes would you accept them removing mementos?
Tornaad
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I heard that the reason they stopped adding classes was because they ran out of room for new animations. From there I heard several people suggest that they could just remove the mementos to make room for the new animations. I have also even heard some people suggesting the idea of turning mementos into new ultimate's. My question is hypothetical. If it meant they could add more classes would you accept them removing mementos?
If it meant they could add more classes would you accept them removing mementos? 183 votes
Yes, remove the mementos, I never use them anyway.
22%
41 votes
Yes, remove the mementos, I like them but I want a new class more.
16%
30 votes
I'm Fine either way.
6%
12 votes
No, I love the mementos.
21%
40 votes
No, I don't think the game needs more classes.
28%
53 votes
Undecided
3%
7 votes
0
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I love the mementos.I would prefer they ditch support for the platform that has the animation limit, then they can add weapons, skills lines, classes, and mementos until they max it out on another platform.
19 -
whitecrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I love the mementos.I love the mementos and don't think they need new classes.
I don't understand "ran out of room for new animations". Does the programming only allow for a limited number?
Many mementos were paid for, so it obviously wouldn't be fair to take those away from people.
As for mementos as ultimates... what?9 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Yes, remove the mementos, I like them but I want a new class more.I would prefer they ditch support for the platform that has the animation limit, then they can add weapons, skills lines, classes, and mementos until they max it out on another platform.
You want them to ditch the PS4/XBox One platforms. I think that it will happen but not for another few years. I look at DCUO as the game that set the standard. They continued to support the PS3 until January 2019. That system was 12 going on 13 years old by that point. With that said, that would make 2025 or 2026 when the PS4/XBox systems won't be supported by ESO. I would be fine with that.4 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would prefer they ditch support for the platform that has the animation limit, then they can add weapons, skills lines, classes, and mementos until they max it out on another platform.
Oh so we are going to drop PC?
You all act like you use more than one class at a time.
Real reason is development dollars as they have to come up with and implement new skills.
Edited by TequilaFire on November 29, 2021 7:09PM6 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have seen this stated in various threads but I don’t believe that’s why additional classes haven’t been added. That I would say is related to class balance, character slots and/or some restriction on combat animations.
There are regularly new momentos and emotes and I don’t believe the existence or additions to these have any bearing on what classes can or cannot be added to the game.23 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don't think the game needs more classes.I actually don't have much use for the mementos myself, but I absolutely do not think we need any more classes. Though I'd be happy to wave bye-bye to a LOT of stuff to get a bard skill line.Edited by Sylvermynx on November 29, 2021 7:08PM0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don't think the game needs more classes.Give me a new weapon or guild skill line. New classes give me nothing since I'm not willing to ditch a character I poured so much time and energy into.
Also I paid money for my mementos and worked hard for the hard to get ones. Having them taken away will not make me happy at all.Edited by Vevvev on November 29, 2021 7:16PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK9 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is the point of new classes in this game? We have six classes with nearly identical skills already.13 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?26 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I love the mementos.I don't see any reason why they couldn't reskin mementos rather than removing them to add a new class. Beyond that, I paid real money for some of those momentos. So, it would be an issue to take them
Edited by spartaxoxo on November 29, 2021 7:20PM1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, remove the mementos, I never use them anyway.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, remove the mementos, I never use them anyway.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don't think the game needs more classes.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.
Do you have a link to the recording of the stream? If the recording exists? We are talking about the same company that said Alliance Change was impossible and then a few months later had the Alliance change token.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK4 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.
And you are sure it was not specific to 'combat animations'? Because if it is due to any and all animations, they seem to go against that by adding several new mometos every year.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.5 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, remove the mementos, I never use them anyway.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.
Do you have a link to the recording of the stream? If the recording exists? We are talking about the same company that said Alliance Change was impossible and then a few months later had the Alliance change token.
Well to be fair, there is a difference between adding a QOL feature vs the game engine running out of steam, which is what it sounds like.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don't think the game needs more classes.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.
Do you have a link to the recording of the stream? If the recording exists? We are talking about the same company that said Alliance Change was impossible and then a few months later had the Alliance change token.
Well to be fair, there is a difference between adding a QOL feature vs the game engine running out of steam, which is what it sounds like.
When alliance and class is hard coded into a character's very identity and is the foundation for everything going forward with them the Alliance Change Token was a pretty big deal. There's a reason why in order for it to work it sends you to the alliance capital, messes with your quest log, and other things like that. If it didn't it'd cause a lot of errors.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, remove the mementos, I never use them anyway.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.
Do you have a link to the recording of the stream? If the recording exists? We are talking about the same company that said Alliance Change was impossible and then a few months later had the Alliance change token.
Well to be fair, there is a difference between adding a QOL feature vs the game engine running out of steam, which is what it sounds like.
When alliance and class is hard coded into a character's very identity and is the foundation for everything going forward with them the Alliance Change Token was a pretty big deal. There's a reason why in order for it to work it sends you to the alliance capital, messes with your quest log, and other things like that. If it didn't it'd cause a lot of errors.
But that has nothing to do with the game engine running out of steam/resources, which is what is seemingly happening and why they said what they did about animations.0 -
SirAxen✭✭✭✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »I would prefer they ditch support for the platform that has the animation limit, then they can add weapons, skills lines, classes, and mementos until they max it out on another platform.
You want them to ditch the PS4/XBox One platforms. I think that it will happen but not for another few years. I look at DCUO as the game that set the standard. They continued to support the PS3 until January 2019. That system was 12 going on 13 years old by that point. With that said, that would make 2025 or 2026 when the PS4/XBox systems won't be supported by ESO. I would be fine with that.
I, personally, hope it's sooner than that. When they don't have to support last-gen consoles anymore, we might see some graphical overhauls someday down the road.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just wait till someone says that they can't support your PC because you don't have a certain chip on your motherboard - oh wait! lol4 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don't think the game needs more classes.If this were to be true, why do they keep making mementos? I know it was a hypothetical question, but it's bit of an odd situation. I can believe they have an "animation budget". If they are aware of this, why throw away that budget on mementos to begin with?
Also, if they make more classes, I'm sure they could get inventive with the current animations and borrow from various areas. There are plenty of animations they can use without necessarily making new ones.
I think in general, if it gets to the point they have to remove mementos to add new things, that would be looked at very negatively. It would give more ammunition to the players saying the engine is bad or performance is horrible, etc.3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I love the mementos.VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
Extrapolation is happening. They are near the upper limit on what older generation consoles can do. If they can't do something without exceeding that limit, then they can't do it. The extrapolation is that new classes, weapons, and skill lines would use new animations, and that could kick it over the limit. There is likely some truth in that, but to what degree, we do not know.Edited by Elsonso on November 29, 2021 7:59PM0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, remove the mementos, I never use them anyway.Nord_Raseri wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
I think one of the devs said it in a stream, that is what I have seen people say...but I don't know first hand.
That is where I heard it. Specifically on a Friday stream.
And you are sure it was not specific to 'combat animations'? Because if it is due to any and all animations, they seem to go against that by adding several new mometos every year.
No, I am not sure it was specific to anything, which is why I left that out of my original post.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They are near the upper limit on what older generation consoles can do. If they can't do something without exceeding that limit, then they can't do it.
.
I have heard from a friend (I do NOT play console ) that there are sufficient commands and few enough console buttons that there are an annoying amount of things that if done on console can't be one button but are "hold this and that" which sounds annoying.
I do not understand how any given animation is a problem - other than it would cause lag?Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I love the mementos.newtinmpls wrote: »They are near the upper limit on what older generation consoles can do. If they can't do something without exceeding that limit, then they can't do it.
.
I have heard from a friend (I do NOT play console ) that there are sufficient commands and few enough console buttons that there are an annoying amount of things that if done on console can't be one button but are "hold this and that" which sounds annoying.
I do not understand how any given animation is a problem - other than it would cause lag?
I believe it is the sum total number of animations that can be loaded into graphics memory. There is limited space for the models, textures, animations, shaders, frame buffer, etc. Only so much can be loaded simultaneously, but it all has to be there before the GPU can properly render the image. When Firor talks about having to stop adding animations, my assumption is that it is not specific to animation, but that everything that has to be there will exceed what can be put there.
Edit: and when he talks about stopping for 6 months, what happened in that 6 months is that they likely optimized how VRAM was being used so that they could pack more in.Edited by Elsonso on November 29, 2021 8:26PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »If this were to be true, why do they keep making mementos? I know it was a hypothetical question, but it's bit of an odd situation. I can believe they have an "animation budget". If they are aware of this, why throw away that budget on mementos to begin with?
Also, if they make more classes, I'm sure they could get inventive with the current animations and borrow from various areas. There are plenty of animations they can use without necessarily making new ones.
I think in general, if it gets to the point they have to remove mementos to add new things, that would be looked at very negatively. It would give more ammunition to the players saying the engine is bad or performance is horrible, etc.
Yeah, I think that's where I'm most skeptical. While yes, each new skill line means 18+ animations for each new skill, morphs, and ultimates, I kind of have to question the value of spending the animation "budget" on crown crate mementos. And that's assuming that all the other animations, like crown store apex mounts, don't come out of the same animation budget.
Obviously, new enemy types are going to get their fair portion of the budget, since that's new content. New gear sets with procs often have new animations, and that's content. But so are new skill lines, and I'd much rather have new content, than new flashy animations for Crown Crate mementos and mounts.6 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm not sure why there would be a 'limit on animations' unless their engine and netcode were so poorly engineered it is just an impossibility at this point (like spell-crafting). It is based on a very old modified engine that doesn't even support cloth physics.
There are a lot of resources wasted between pets, mementos, reskinned mounts, and housing crap though which could have been used for something actually gameplay related. I'd trade all that crap for more gameplay elements but we all know it's not going to happen because people paid money for those things. I doubt it could be the result of hardware limitations because GPUs these days are coming with more and more VRAM in light of 4k, unless console hardware is somehow even worse than I thought and they have to cater to those machines.
It is curious that every single one of Vampire's "reworked" skill line uses recycled animations from somewhere else in the game...Edited by Finedaible on November 29, 2021 9:09PM0 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I love the mementos.enjoy emotes. no reason for them to be removed.Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »They add new player animations with every new crown crate season.
So where did we get this idea that ZOS can't add classes/skill lines because they can't add animations?
This.
Probably someone trying to start a false rumor. They did not run out of room.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I love the mementos.Finedaible wrote: »I'm not sure why there would be a 'limit on animations' unless their engine and netcode were so poorly engineered it is just an impossibility at this point (like spell-crafting). It is based on a very old modified engine that doesn't even support cloth physics.
My understanding is that it is memory limitations. It is a zero sum situation. Once you hit the limit, if you want more animations in VRAM, you have to take something else out, or make something smaller so that there is more room. It sounds like they did the latter.Probably someone trying to start a false rumor. They did not run out of room.
Firor says that they did in the June IGN interview. "At one point we had to stop adding new animations to the game for 6 months, because we would just run out of memory on those devices" 1 -
UntilValhalla13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There was enough space for antiquities and companions, which no one asked for.8