need advice for "non-meta" sets... usable on "certain" builds or decon candidate?

fiender66 · November 2021

Amazing thread. Lot of useful informations. Thank u all

Finedaible · November 2021

Generally speaking, what makes a set 'bad' is when the set in question only provides bonuses one can easily acquire elsewhere or with less investment or at less cost (slots). It also matters if the set's bonus can carry over to another bar, allowing you to run a different set on another bar.

Gryphon's Ferocity is fun for overland, the problem with Gryphon is that it wants to support a critical build but doesn't grant much crit or unique bonuses. GF's 5th bonus is minor force and minor expedition for 10s on direct damage, which is basically 100% uptime since it can refresh itself from light attacks. Compare wearing those 5 pieces of GF gear vs slotting any of the skills which grant Expedition and/or Force. Accelerate does both, and half the classes already have access to major or minor expedition in their toolkit. Guild skills can provide minor force buffs.

GF may possibly be better on magicka specs now with the hybridized stats via weapons/jewelry than it was for stamina builds before, but I feel like Dragonguard Elite was better from experience since it gives me more raw stats while also providing some stamina recovery as well. Don't decon Medusa weapons/jewelry (from Arx Corinium) either which are probably better than either of those two sets while not being as hard as Tzogvin to farm, the major drawback being the bonus won't carry over to barswap.

Castagere · November 2021

It really depends on how you play the game with gear. I play ESO like a single-player TES game so basic overland sets are fine for me. I run 5/5 Spinners and War Maiden on my Templar and Briarheart and Sword Singer on my Bear Warden. It's crazy to me that you need certain gear sets to run the different group content in the game. It sounds like group content is really for those that mid/max in the game.

etchedpixels · November 2021

Castagere wrote: »

It really depends on how you play the game with gear. I play ESO like a single-player TES game so basic overland sets are fine for me. I run 5/5 Spinners and War Maiden on my Templar and Briarheart and Sword Singer on my Bear Warden. It's crazy to me that you need certain gear sets to run the different group content in the game. It sounds like group content is really for those that mid/max in the game.

To be fair you only need the decent gear to run some of the veteran dungeons and trials. It helps for the other stuff but it's perfectly possible to do group dungeons and the easier normall trials in far from meta gear.

Jazraena · November 2021

There is not a single vet dungeon that requires meta setups. None. Zilch. The sheer fact that you have less people providing support than in Trials will alter circumstances already, and the moment you don't do that vet dungeon in an optimized premade, all bets are off. I generally don't expect much more support to be provided than Major Breach. Everything beyond that is luck.

Trial meta builds will work in vet dungeons usually, but they may well fall short of other builds more suited to the circumstances.

AuraStorm43 · November 2021

I get through vet dungeons fine in pfg and mother’s sorrow, its not BIS but it gets the job done

Unless you plan on doing stuff like vet vat hollows or vet dlc hm content i wouldn’t be concerned

Jazraena · November 2021

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I get through vet dungeons fine in pfg and mother’s sorrow, its not BIS but it gets the job done

Unless you plan on doing stuff like vet vat hollows or vet dlc hm content i wouldn’t be concerned

Every single one of my characters is off-meta and I'm doing Vet DLC HM Dungeons. Meta is not a requirement, plain as that. Your build needs to be effective, but that's a different thing than Trial Meta.

AuraStorm43 · November 2021

Jazraena wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I get through vet dungeons fine in pfg and mother’s sorrow, its not BIS but it gets the job done

Unless you plan on doing stuff like vet vat hollows or vet dlc hm content i wouldn’t be concerned

Every single one of my characters is off-meta and I'm doing Vet DLC HM Dungeons. Meta is not a requirement, plain as that. Your build needs to be effective, but that's a different thing than Trial Meta.

Sure but i don’t get the “i don’t like using objectively good things” mindset

Ippokrates · November 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

It is all math.

The more numbers you gather, the better result you will have. So basically sets with bonuses you can obtain from skills or potions, will rather be inferior to sets with "unique" bonuses.

But there is plenty of non-meta sets that could pull some nice numbers, like Azure, Neren/Stormfist, Master's 2h, Dragonguard Elite, Maelstrom DW, Yandir - you just need to check what fits which of them will work for you - on PTS you can do it easily (except jewelry traits ;p ) and without wasting materials.

Whats up with jewelry traits on PTS, this some recent issue? I don't go there too much, but never had an issue with jewelry there previously.

You have only basic traits on jewelry and quite limited number of TC. For few sets it is fine, but for more, you need to create new alt -_-

Yeah... you need to create a max level character there and grab the transmute & jewelry stations from the crown store. You get an unlimited supply of all mats, transmutes and have every skill unlocked/trained on PTS chars, if you choose the create at max level option in the upper left corner, so you can then make or change anything you want. Other wise you are limited to whatever your main char can do, if that char is even on the PTS (it isn't 1/2 the time). I actually prefer re-making characters and a small home base over there than having my chars transferred.

TBH I have more TC & materials on EU than PTS ^^

But the point is - your 3600 CP are starting with 1000 TC but unlike all other stuff that costs 1 gold/crown on PTS, transmutation still costs 50 TC, so you can quickly runnout of them

Dagoth_Rac · November 2021

Ippokrates wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

It is all math.

The more numbers you gather, the better result you will have. So basically sets with bonuses you can obtain from skills or potions, will rather be inferior to sets with "unique" bonuses.

But there is plenty of non-meta sets that could pull some nice numbers, like Azure, Neren/Stormfist, Master's 2h, Dragonguard Elite, Maelstrom DW, Yandir - you just need to check what fits which of them will work for you - on PTS you can do it easily (except jewelry traits ;p ) and without wasting materials.

Whats up with jewelry traits on PTS, this some recent issue? I don't go there too much, but never had an issue with jewelry there previously.

You have only basic traits on jewelry and quite limited number of TC. For few sets it is fine, but for more, you need to create new alt -_-

Yeah... you need to create a max level character there and grab the transmute & jewelry stations from the crown store. You get an unlimited supply of all mats, transmutes and have every skill unlocked/trained on PTS chars, if you choose the create at max level option in the upper left corner, so you can then make or change anything you want. Other wise you are limited to whatever your main char can do, if that char is even on the PTS (it isn't 1/2 the time). I actually prefer re-making characters and a small home base over there than having my chars transferred.

TBH I have more TC & materials on EU than PTS ^^

But the point is - your 3600 CP are starting with 1000 TC but unlike all other stuff that costs 1 gold/crown on PTS, transmutation still costs 50 TC, so you can quickly runnout of them

Just open up another container of transmutes? You have infinite transmute crystals on demand on PTS, but you have to open them in spurts. The ability to transmute 20 items before needing to open another coffer of transmutes doesn't seem that bad.

Jazraena · November 2021

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I get through vet dungeons fine in pfg and mother’s sorrow, its not BIS but it gets the job done

Unless you plan on doing stuff like vet vat hollows or vet dlc hm content i wouldn’t be concerned

Every single one of my characters is off-meta and I'm doing Vet DLC HM Dungeons. Meta is not a requirement, plain as that. Your build needs to be effective, but that's a different thing than Trial Meta.

Sure but i don’t get the “i don’t like using objectively good things” mindset

It's not "I don't like using objectively good things", but a combination of "I don't want to use the exact same sets on every character" and "These good things are not objectively best outside the optimized trial environment".

Optimized 12 player trials and 4 man dungeons, including Vet HM, are not the same, and even less so without a premade optimized ahead of time.

AuraStorm43 · November 2021

Jazraena wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I get through vet dungeons fine in pfg and mother’s sorrow, its not BIS but it gets the job done

Unless you plan on doing stuff like vet vat hollows or vet dlc hm content i wouldn’t be concerned

Every single one of my characters is off-meta and I'm doing Vet DLC HM Dungeons. Meta is not a requirement, plain as that. Your build needs to be effective, but that's a different thing than Trial Meta.

Sure but i don’t get the “i don’t like using objectively good things” mindset

It's not "I don't like using objectively good things", but a combination of "I don't want to use the exact same sets on every character" and "These good things are not objectively best outside the optimized trial environment".

Optimized 12 player trials and 4 man dungeons, including Vet HM, are not the same, and even less so without a premade optimized ahead of time.

You don’t have to use the same sets on every character with this meta, there’s plenty of options

LiteEmUp · November 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

Also, as is pointed out below... deconning is a form of keeping it, you can recreate anything you decon at any time, as long as you have the transmutes to do so.

i thought of this, but it feels a waste to decon purple items lol... it gets expensive in purple mats or transmute crystals to get an item to purple lol...

CasgarTheSomnolent wrote: »

I support playing around 100%. Actually, I just installed PTS for the first time, because I wanted to go experiment with a bunch of my hypotheses for free. (I don't know why I didn't do this long ago.)

So, the thing about "the PVE meta" in ESO is that it's all trials.* And the trial-spinoff minigame of dummy humping. There are some fine solo builds out there, but there are absolutely zero four-man builds. Zero. This, in my opinion, is an absolute failure of the ESO content creation community and a major disservice to a huge number of players who are NOT interested in high-level trials.

this is my somewhat rant with most build guides out there... its the same rele/briar/bahsei/tzog/kinra builds that seemed geared towards trials.... only a few non trial builds lol..

this is why i started looking at pvp build guides and see how i can modify it to work for pve.. quite an interesting concept lol...

colossalvoids wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

CasgarTheSomnolent wrote: »

<snip>

That was quite awesome, thanks for writing all that out. It is actually quite sad that the content creators have mostly convinced everyone that wearing Trial gear is the only way to go. I can't tell you how many folks I know that think slapping on whatever the current trial meta is will work in everyday content, most of those folks never having stepped in a trial and having no intentions of doing so. It is really a disservice to the community at large.

The thing is that most of creators are actually putting spoilers in their videos, like it's trial oriented build performing best in optimised, 12 man group scenarios etc. but players just pretend if it's hitting best on a fully debuffed dummy it would do same for any dungeon or arena. And it's not, obviously, and content creators are not much going into options for that kind of stuff nowadays a lot as to them it's a given to have different build for such activities, they just do different thing. Also there build levels are different now, one can go "old school" way into arena or a dungeon and some would go full on with vamp and burn bosses in couple of seconds. Before it was a bit different as people were generally running pfg/vo at any player skill level there but it's not a thing anymore. So there's a lot of freedom to choose from accordingly to your playstyle.

Maybe there's lack of content creators of a more wider range compared to what we had 3-4 years ago (also a lot of players who helped out just left) and how they overall present their builds but it's a player issue also, not to mention zenimax changing stuff up every time rendering their efforts useless so quick trial build showcase is what's getting released the most.

as i mentioned on quoting someone, i started experimenting with using pvp build guides and try fitting it in for pve lol... only a few pve build guides i check and follow.. deltia and lucky ghost are the ones i usually look at the most...

LiteEmUp · December 2021

ok so here are the current gear planned i have for some of my toons... what you guys think?? which ones needs a better replacement(that is not tzog, kinra, rele, siroria, AY lol)

stam dk = leviathan(currently equipped this+ spriggans), gryphon(maybe temp?).. dual wield focused.. pale order equipped.. not sure if i should pair levi with deadly as my other top option...

stam den = titanborn + spriggan.. 2hander focused with no mythics.. magma for monster set..

stam sorc = powerful assault + spriggans.. dual wield focused with magma for monster set

stam cro = 7th legion + pillar of nirn.. dual wield focused with pale order

stam blade = stygian + leviathan for both pve and pvp.. dual wield focused with pale order for pve and wild hunt for pvp..

stamplar = deadly strike + briarheart for both pve and pvp... dual wield focused with pale order for pve and markyn for pvp...

additional insights are greatly appreciatedd...

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · December 2021

LiteEmUp wrote: »

ok so here are the current gear planned i have for some of my toons... what you guys think?? which ones needs a better replacement(that is not tzog, kinra, rele, siroria, AY lol)

stam dk = leviathan(currently equipped this+ spriggans), gryphon(maybe temp?).. dual wield focused.. pale order equipped.. not sure if i should pair levi with deadly as my other top option...

stam den = titanborn + spriggan.. 2hander focused with no mythics.. magma for monster set..

stam sorc = powerful assault + spriggans.. dual wield focused with magma for monster set

stam cro = 7th legion + pillar of nirn.. dual wield focused with pale order

stam blade = stygian + leviathan for both pve and pvp.. dual wield focused with pale order for pve and wild hunt for pvp..

stamplar = deadly strike + briarheart for both pve and pvp... dual wield focused with pale order for pve and markyn for pvp...

additional insights are greatly appreciatedd...

Hi there,

I'm assuming most of this is PvE as I see no real chance of long term survival in PvP with some of these setups as most of them are glass canon based.

Stam DK:
They aren't really crit machines (DK's in general), so perhaps Leviathan isn't the best choice in my opinion.

Check out these sets too, some proc sets are ok depening on what you and are all viable on your DK.
[*] https://eso-sets.com/set/shadow-of-the-red-mountain
[*] https://eso-sets.com/set/unfathomable-darkness
[*] https://eso-sets.com/set/roar-of-alkosh

Stam Den:
Titanborn was essentially used on Sniper gankers from experience in past patches. It was a bit abusive and caused some desynch deaths. I don't think it's very appropriate for a non stealth type character as the pre-requisite or trigger for full buff is 25% remaining HP, which is dancing with the devil under the pale moon light

Stam Sorc:
PA is essentially used on tanks in raids, but can be used in PvP in a groupped context, another interesting set for group play is Arkasis as it enables your group to ulti dump more often than standard.

[*] https://eso-sets.com/set/arkasis-s-genius

If solo, don't use PA. Stamcro:
Never played it, but your setup for your Warden would be similiar

Your last two setups seem the most viable for PVE (Stamplar and Stamblade), although once again for PvP you might get some nasty hits in damage orientated gear.

Deadly Strike would probably also work on your Stam DK, so you could essentially just make the same build and switch between your stamplar and stam dk.

Check out: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:EsoBuildEditor to test out your builds. It may seem a bit confusing at first, but you'll get the gist of things quickly and you can save them to compare.

Good luck!