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Limits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring

  • Kiralyn2000
    Kiralyn2000
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    What do you think is more fun for most of the players?

    Doing 3 daily tasks + 1 weekly for 40 weeks to get that amount of seals plus having the option to choose which tasks fit your playstyle the most.
    OR
    Doing 5 daily tasks + 3 weeklies for 40 weeks with being forced to play parts that you don't like (e.g. trials or pvp).

    The first, of course.

    (and "let us do all of them, and just double the costs of stuff in the store" is awful for nearly everyone. The number of people going "gee, I wish I could do them all" vs the people thinking "oh, good, I can actually do three of today'd dailies and a weekly" is small. Making everything cost a lot more just to cater to "I wanna do them all!" would screw over many who'd now have a lot more weeks before they could get things they're interested in.)
  • PizzaCat82
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    Tandor wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Well do you think 5 is too many? Or do you just want a choice. I mean we can make it 5/10 I guess. Same end result, pretty much same choice, and now we have the introduction of more seals each day, or week, or even introducing monthly or yearly ones.

    The Endeavours are already an unnecessary addition to the daily login rewards from some, I suspect many, players' perspective. They were only introduced to allow ZOS to get round the increasing threat of legal problems with lockboxes, by enabling them to say that anything in the Crown Crates can be obtained by playing the game. Adding even more Endeavours isn't going to resolve anything, and would simply result in either a reduction in the number of seals provided per Endeavour or else an increase in the number of seals required to obtain any worthwhile rewards.

    I agree they are a pointless addition of simple activities designed to allow ZOS to engage in whatever bad behavior with regards to crates and gambling.

    Do you have a solution to the fact that the rate of endeavors is woefully inadequate to get people even interested in crates without sounding like you want "all the cosmetics for free"?

    There's got to be a middle ground because I finish them every day and simply think, "Wow, not a single activity that was new, hard, or interesting"

    And please please please for the love of all that is holy, please don't respond with "Thats how they're supposed to be" as if moses himself came down with 3 stone tablets and booming voices and decried it. Things change. Companies can learn.
    Edited by PizzaCat82 on November 23, 2021 9:04PM
  • Kalik_Gold
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    Compared to Events and the work needed, Endeavors aren't bad.

    I HARDLY see anyone riding an Indrik these days, but I guarantee if you save for a year to get an Apex mount. At least one of your characters will be riding that bad boy.
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • whitecrow
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    3 of 5 works for me. Occasionally there is a 4th one I could do without much effort, but I wouldn't want to feel like I "had" to do more.
  • Kwoung
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    hafgood wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I feel like the current system is barely above login rewards and isn't fun or challenging.

    But that is the whole point of the endeavour system, it was designed so that people didn't have to go out of their way to get them, it isn't designed to be challenging, its designed to be easy and that you should get them a lot of the time without having to do anything extra.

    What you are proposing turns it into a grind, and for no additional reward, because either the number of endeavours we get will decrease or the amount needed to get something will increase.

    You say it doesn't cost anything to do this, that it costs Zos nothing to effectively give a top tier mount every 2 to 3 months rather than every 40 weeks.

    Now tell that to the accountants and sales team who are suddenly looking at a massive reduction in income due to the massive decrease in crate sales.

    Then tell it to the devs because all of a sudden the money coming into the game has massively reduced which means there is less money for changes and system development

    Then tell it to the subscribers who find their eso+ tripling in price to make up for that lost income due to the extra endeavours being given out.

    And then the next phase is a massive reduction in subscribers as players desert the game.

    With a massive decrease in both income and players Zos decide it is no longer worth paying the server costs and so they close the game.

    And all because people were not satisfied with a small amount of "free" cosmetic stuff a year and wanted more, more, more....

    ZOS makes $450 million a year mostly from ESO. I do not believe they will bankrupt themselves or Microsoft, or even lose profits.

    People who gamble for crates will still do so. And they will still have an awful rate on apex and above rewards.

    And I'm not asking for "free" stuff. I'm asking to be rewarded for playing the game. ZOS already does this. Other games do this. Why is this such a foreign concept to people.

    Actually, Zenimax Media makes about $450m a year with all their products, ZOS is responsible for about $116m of that. That is not a huge amount of money in the terms of a successful company. Once you take salaries, overhead, taxes, law suits and everything else into consideration... it means nothing really. Revenue is not profit, and there are plenty of companies out there making similar revenue and operating at a loss. Not saying ZOS is, just that tossing revenue numbers out is completely meaningless.
  • I_killed_Vivec
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    The thing about endeavours...

    I admit I hadn't been paying attention, the first I knew about them was when I received notification that I'd completed one... so I found out what they were about.

    And then I looked in the store.

    All those lovely things, nothing I really wanted, or even thought about, but seeing them made me think. I saved up to get the iron atronach shield for my DK tank - I have to admit it looks fantastic!

    But by then I had noticed people with things that I was now aware of, having seen them in the catalogue, and sometimes for as much as 16K.

    And then the penny dropped - nobody at that point could have saved up 16K. It just wasn't possible, not enough days or weeks since it had started.

    What's more, some of them were advertised as time limited. The implication being that if you haven't saved up 16K seals yet (and you couldn't have) then you would have to buy it (through crates, same thing, a cash transaction).

    9 days left to get the Volcanic Senche-Panther... I'd love to have it, but there's not enough time to get the seals. I won't buy it, I'll save up my seals... maybe it will come round again, maybe it won't.

    But I'm not going to be tempted to buy crates just because I've had unattainable shiny dangled in front of me.
  • Charlotte_Loreley
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I like that they give us multiple options and we choose which activities we do. As you already mentioned, if we could do all of them, they would just adjust the prices up anyway so you wouldn't progress any faster than you do currently. You would just have to do more for the same outcome.

    But no need to worry. If you really want to do that you can. Simply do the other endeavors anyway. You won't get any extra rewards, but since you already wanted the cost to adjust up for more effort, this won't change. You get to put in the extra effort you want and everyone else can continue on as normal. Everybody wins!

    So you're saying having the option to do all the endeavors would make the game less fun?

    It's basically daily quests or anything a game encourages to do for a certain reward.
    For example, if you don't do pledges you will not get keys. Someone who doesn't like doing stuff like that will say, "Hell, I don't even need keys anymore". BAM! An update/event drops that gives an important use for keys. That same person now says, "***! I am going to miss out on so much stuff because I didn't do my daily chores in the game".

    The same applies to endeavors. If you make all of them doable, that person would "feel obligated" to do them all even though he doesn't even want to do them because maybe he hates that activity or it's not fun to him.

    The majority of people hate daily activities in games. They just want to jump into the game play on their own time and do the stuff they want to do. But the games need to meet certain number of players online for a certain period of time metric. Thus, they add daily activities with unique rewards so people spend time doing them.

    So, YES! Giving more daily stuff to do in a game makes it boring and takes away fun. A better suggestion would be to increase the number of endeavors to do and provide more choices for WEEKLY endeavors.
  • PizzaCat82
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I like that they give us multiple options and we choose which activities we do. As you already mentioned, if we could do all of them, they would just adjust the prices up anyway so you wouldn't progress any faster than you do currently. You would just have to do more for the same outcome.

    But no need to worry. If you really want to do that you can. Simply do the other endeavors anyway. You won't get any extra rewards, but since you already wanted the cost to adjust up for more effort, this won't change. You get to put in the extra effort you want and everyone else can continue on as normal. Everybody wins!

    So you're saying having the option to do all the endeavors would make the game less fun?

    It's basically daily quests or anything a game encourages to do for a certain reward.
    For example, if you don't do pledges you will not get keys. Someone who doesn't like doing stuff like that will say, "Hell, I don't even need keys anymore". BAM! An update/event drops that gives an important use for keys. That same person now says, "***! I am going to miss out on so much stuff because I didn't do my daily chores in the game".

    The same applies to endeavors. If you make all of them doable, that person would "feel obligated" to do them all even though he doesn't even want to do them because maybe he hates that activity or it's not fun to him.

    The majority of people hate daily activities in games. They just want to jump into the game play on their own time and do the stuff they want to do. But the games need to meet certain number of players online for a certain period of time metric. Thus, they add daily activities with unique rewards so people spend time doing them.

    So, YES! Giving more daily stuff to do in a game makes it boring and takes away fun. A better suggestion would be to increase the number of endeavors to do and provide more choices for WEEKLY endeavors.

    Ok, so more weekly endeavors. Sure. Maybe even monthly ones? None of the weekly ones take especially long.
  • Sylvermynx
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    What do you think is more fun for most of the players?

    Doing 3 daily tasks + 1 weekly for 40 weeks to get that amount of seals plus having the option to choose which tasks fit your playstyle the most.
    OR
    Doing 5 daily tasks + 3 weeklies for 40 weeks with being forced to play parts that you don't like (e.g. trials or pvp).

    The first, of course.

    (and "let us do all of them, and just double the costs of stuff in the store" is awful for nearly everyone. The number of people going "gee, I wish I could do them all" vs the people thinking "oh, good, I can actually do three of today'd dailies and a weekly" is small. Making everything cost a lot more just to cater to "I wanna do them all!" would screw over many who'd now have a lot more weeks before they could get things they're interested in.)

    Exactly this. 2 or three dailies and an occasional weekly are fine with me.
  • Hapexamendios
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    They're easy. They're free.
  • Tandor
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    Well do you think 5 is too many? Or do you just want a choice. I mean we can make it 5/10 I guess. Same end result, pretty much same choice, and now we have the introduction of more seals each day, or week, or even introducing monthly or yearly ones.

    The Endeavours are already an unnecessary addition to the daily login rewards from some, I suspect many, players' perspective. They were only introduced to allow ZOS to get round the increasing threat of legal problems with lockboxes, by enabling them to say that anything in the Crown Crates can be obtained by playing the game. Adding even more Endeavours isn't going to resolve anything, and would simply result in either a reduction in the number of seals provided per Endeavour or else an increase in the number of seals required to obtain any worthwhile rewards.

    I agree they are a pointless addition of simple activities designed to allow ZOS to engage in whatever bad behavior with regards to crates and gambling.

    Do you have a solution to the fact that the rate of endeavors is woefully inadequate to get people even interested in crates without sounding like you want "all the cosmetics for free"?

    There's got to be a middle ground because I finish them every day and simply think, "Wow, not a single activity that was new, hard, or interesting"

    And please please please for the love of all that is holy, please don't respond with "Thats how they're supposed to be" as if moses himself came down with 3 stone tablets and booming voices and decried it. Things change. Companies can learn.

    On your first point, I simply stated my belief in why ZOS introduced Endeavours, please don't link your claim that you agree with me with your subjective opinion on crates, that's unrelated to my point. We're discussing Endeavours, not crates.

    On your second point, you state a "fact" which again is really a subjective opinion and unrelated to the issue. We''ve agreed on the reason for introducing Endeavours, where does getting people interested in crates come into it? Why are you asking me for a solution to something I haven't raised or commented upon? Again, we're discussing Endeavours, not crates.

    On the third point, I'm not even sure that ZOS expect or need players to complete the Endeavours every day, or even at all. We're agreed on the reason for introducing them, it's to show that crate contents can be got within the game and all that is required for that is that the system exists. Whether people take advantage of it is immaterial to its purpose. As for me, I do between 0 and 3 per day across two servers on two accounts, but only if I feel like it and they suit what I'm doing at the time. I have no particular interest in seals or the items that they buy, but then I don't buy those items in crates either. For me Endeavours are just an extra thing I can do if I want to, but if I found them too old, easy and uninteresting as you do then I wouldn't bother. I don't need them to be extended or improved, they're not a part of why I play the game.
  • spartaxoxo
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    everyone wants their login rewards instead so they don't have any negative consequences in their game.

    Yes because unlike a dungeon or something, this is a DAILY chore. I don't want negativity introduced into every play session. Dailies are supposed to be quick and easy tasks for minor rewards.

    Offering a reward is not the same as forcing you to do the task.

    Good thing that's not what I said then! Might want to reread.
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Who wants to miss stuff or be forced into activities they don't like every single day for the rest of the game's lifespan?

    I'm sorry not being able to do everything every would introduce negativity for you. I don't see anything listed in the last year that would require me to put in a ton of effort or time.

    There would be more rewards the next day, if you did not get all of them this day.

    Yes. It would be irritating to either miss out or make myself go into PVP when I'm not in a PVP mood. I find it to be a stressful activity that I have to be in the right frame of mind to do, so mostly I would just skip it. And I would be annoyed by that because I used to get all the seals without having to PVP and now instead I have to miss out. I don't know why I am supposed to enjoy missing seals that I previously received? How is that fun?

    I'm sure PvPers would be annoyed if that had to kill 3 world bosses and an 1 arenas on top of the battlegrounds they enjoy, just as much as I would be annoyed at having to do a Battleground match.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 23, 2021 11:55PM
  • Kiralyn2000
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    Also
    Limits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring

    Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.


    (personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)
  • spartaxoxo
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    Also
    Limits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring

    Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.


    (personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)

    You know I hadn't even thought of that point. Why would doing more of them make them more attractive to people who already don't like doing them?

    Also that's how I do my endeavors as well. I basically login, grab my daily, do my writs and then see which endeavors are required. If they don't align with what I'm gonna do anyway, I just knock em out real quick. If they do, then I just go do that thing.
  • Sylvermynx
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    Also
    Limits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring

    Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.


    (personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)

    Me too. They're not "fun" necessarily, but easy works for me.
  • Kwoung
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    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Also
    Limits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring

    Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.


    (personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)

    Me too. They're not "fun" necessarily, but easy works for me.

    Same here. I generally hope that completing my daily craft writs and collecting the resulting survey maps completes them, and many times it does, today I had to go murder 5 fisherman in Ebonheart though, which covered the 2/3 of the dailies crafting didn't. It was rather nostalgic, been a while since I used my Blade of Woe. ;)
  • Sylvermynx
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    I just did the cloth plants one and the kill fire atro one, plus the repair walls etc weekly. I'm happy.
  • PizzaCat82
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    I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.

    Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.
  • AlnilamE
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    "Maybe not payout less seals"

    I mean, no offense, but they've already been paying out less seals on a weekly basis than they did at launch. I just don't see that happening.

    It's also irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many seals it pays out, having it divisible by 5 instead of 3 would result in less payout per task.

    They could be willing to give out 100 seals per day and 33.33 seals would be more seals than 25.

    The difference between the two tasks is one introduces a reward/punishment system for willingness to play all the activities the game has to offer, and the other gives players choices.

    I'd rather have choice.
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I don't believe doing more endeavors would make the game worse. Most of them are incredibly easy. None of them are required to enjoy the game.

    It would fix most people's complaints with the endeavors cheapness by tying it to effort instead of time. People can still choose not to do them, and of course the gambling could be for people who don't want to put in the effort.

    I don't see how it would take away choice if the reward values stayed the same. I don't see how it would bankrupt ZOS to let a few more items out of the crates besides an apex every 6 months or radiant every year. Might even get more people playing.

    I do see why they are like they are, and I don't agree with the cash grab. Most of us pay a monthly fee. Most of us get the expansions every year. The whales will still be whales.

    You are correct in that you don't see many of the objections to your proposal. While you don't have to agree with others, it is important to at least accept that others do see things differently. You're not likely to change the minds of those that are disagreeing in this thread. Your points are very clear. They just aren't attractive to me. I can't speak for others.

    The idea that they can just up the rewards or give away more of this or that is something you'd have to take up with ZOS. At the end of the day, people will always accept more. Why get $5 when you could get $10 or $50 or $5000? ZOS has decided on their reward structure for this system. Realistically, telling them they won't go bankrupt by upping the rewards isn't going to change their minds. You're basically telling them they will make less money. That's not really a good way to convince a company to do a thing.

    Its just strange that everyone's okay with endeavors being lowered each month but when I try to offer a solution that gives more, its a symphony of people not wanting to put in the effort that might actually make the game more interesting.

    Like obviously it wont be the most lucrative suggestion for ZOS but it'd make logging in each week actually interesting.

    The game is not made more interesting by giving me more chores. Right now, endeavors are mostly doable via normal gameplay because I can pick the 3 that are easiest each day. Having to do 5 instead would start feeling like work.

    And you would have less time to do the things you want to do.
    The Moot Councillor
  • AlnilamE
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.

    Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.

    "Playing the game" is more fun when you have time to do what you want. We all have daily routines and such. A lot of people do writs on many characters. Others do it less or not at all. But most players have a routine when they first log in, sort of like the "chores". And when you're done with that maintenance, you say "now what?" and you go do what you want to do.

    Endeavors are things that happen *before* the "now what?", not after. They are fine as is. I enjoy being able to choose.
    The Moot Councillor
  • VaranisArano
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.

    Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.

    Really? It does not seem to me that you've understood the substance of the criticisms you've heard.

    Maybe for you, Endeavors are part of "playing the game."

    For me, they are more like the list of chores I look at before I go do the content I want to do. Right now, that's questing and dungeons. I'm fine with a choice of 3 chores before I queue, quest, or PVP. I don't want 5 chores. I don't need 2 more tasks to keep myself occupied - I have other stuff I actually want to do when I log in.

    I'm not asking for free rewards. (I confess I missed where someone was?) I am saying that I don't want more (frequently boring) tasks to do before I get on with my real gameplay.


    Let's take a look at today's endeavors for an example of what I'm talking about. I log in hoping to start Fargrave on my main character.

    Endeavors
    Steal 10 Items from the Environment
    Pick 2 Locks
    Launder 5 Items at Fences
    Kill 1 Group Boss
    Dig Up 1 Chest from Treasure Maps

    Right away we have a problem. The three tasks that go together are Thieves Content which is great and quick...and my main isn't a thief. Okay, log in on the thief. Knock out stealing, lockpicking, laundering.

    Done. (Took me 13 minutes)

    Oh, wait, you come in with all 5 tasks, and now I'm not done.

    Better hope I have a treasure map handy! I do, but if not, I'd be buying one from the guild store. (Ha ha, ha ha. Jokes on me, This took me 10 effing minutes to do. I picked a treasure map where I thought I knew where it was. Cue me looking it up on youtube because I, uh, did not remember where it was.)

    Now for kill a group boss. Well now I've got to find one that I can solo or that has an active group or that I can make a group for. I know Deadlands bosses are packed, but I'm saving them for later. I know a couple WBs near dolmens that usually get hit, so this is not exactly hard...it's just tedious. Its not the content I want to play today. If only we could pick our three tasks, I'd be done already... (Took a few minutes to duo Bramblepatch near a deshaan dolmen.)

    Whew, done. Thirty minutes later, I can finally do the thing I logged in to do: quest in Fargrave.

    Do you see how adding those two extra tasks added extra tediousness rather than actual content? How it takes me longer to get to the gameplay I actually want to do? 3 tasks took 13 minutes. 5 tasks took 30.

    You can tell me "Then skip it" but that's missing the point. Some players will always try to do them all, and they will experience that tediousness and frustration as more tasks get added before they can do what they logged on to do.

    Since many days include at least one task requiring a Chapter or DLC, do you see how requiring all 5 tasks is problematic for players who don't own them?

    There's two very sensible reasons why ZOS kept Endeavors to a relatively low number of tasks!


    Please don't go dismissing concerns as "people just want free rewards." I'm fine doing three tasks, most days. I don't want more tasks, especially when it means I can no longer skip the ones I find boring, tedious, and relatively time consuming when I logged on to actually play the game.
    Edited by VaranisArano on November 24, 2021 1:54PM
  • Raideen
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    All I know is that World of Warcraft bas been raking in the bucks for a decade and a half at 15 bucks a month and the past 6 years or so its been "free" to play if you purchase game time with gold in game. The vast majority of mounts, cosmetics, pets etc all come from simply having fun while playing the game.

    I see no reason the same cant happen here. Players who sub with ESO+ should have all the content available in game as gold or rewards.

    ESO is a great game, lots of talent working on this project, but the monetization severely turns many folks off. I have subbed to ESO plus for every minute I have played this game. It would be nice to be able to obtain mounts and stuff simply by playing.

    The idea that ZOS wont make money by allowing for more content to be had in game is simply not true. If anything being more honest and upfront with monetization could actually grown the player base.
  • spartaxoxo
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    Please don't go dismissing concerns as "people just want free rewards." I'm fine doing three tasks, most days. I don't want more tasks, especially when it means I can no longer skip the ones I find boring, tedious, and relatively time consuming when I logged on to actually play the game.

    I mean even if that was the case, it wouldn't be a valid criticism of a daily.

    Daily tasks are meant to be low effort tasks for small rewards. That's why many games even give stuff merely for just logging in and nothing else. Games shouldn't be trying to get people to do stuff they don't enjoy every day for long periods of time and effort. They aren't a job.

    The bulk of your time should be spent doing the things you want to do in the game. This is how you make a game fun.

    There's a fundamental misunderstanding of how to provide fun to the masses if you think that making them feel forced into content they don't enjoy every single time they play your game, or else miss out on the best rewards is good game design.

    That's why it's a general design principle across the industry that challenges are typically limited time events or content people can pick and choose when they want to do. And dailies are generally quick and easy. They are meant to make you want to login each day and find something you DO want to do, not dominate your gameplay.

    Different types of content need different approaches.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 24, 2021 2:40PM
  • Melivar
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    There are so many tasks in the game that offer rewards in some form or another why not simply do those to instead of trying to fix a system that ultimately is working as intended as described by so many others in this thread?

    Need more to focus on there is the sticker book for one or motifs from doing one of the hundreds of daily quests out there.

    Need more challenge well there are motifs and other items that can be farmed and sold for gold even if you already have them from Veteran Dungeons and Trials.

    And of course there are achievements for doing just about anything in the game if that's your fancy.

    The Endeavor system is giving us exactly what Zos wants it to and most likely needs it to from a Microsoft point of view and that is the option to get crown items by playing the game.

    Most daily and weekly tasks I can get done from my normal play time which is great as some days I have 5 minutes to play and others I have 2+ hours. With the current system I can get at least 2 of the 3 dailies done with a quick login and sometimes miss out on a1 of the rewards very rarely has it been 2.

    With what your proposing well I would often miss out on 3 dailies sometimes 4 and could possibly miss out on 1 or 2 of the weeklies as well. Now at the end of the day ZOS will still keep X reward at X amount of weeks so sure those who can do all the things every day and get all the weeklies will be in the same boat but now I am X number of weeks behind.

    I still get to login in everyday with few exceptions but now take the person who only gets to login on the weekends they might go from 16 months to get that reward they are hoping for now it might be 2 years or more
  • Kiralyn2000
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.

    Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.

    What a strange thing to say. As it has zero to do with any of the responses you got.


    edit: reminds me a bit of the Goode Olde Days on the WoW forums
    "The prices in the <whatever> Rep Shop are a bit high. Perhaps 10-15% less would be better?"
    "Oh, so you want everything mailed to you just for logging in?!?!?!?!11!?!!?!!?"
    /facepalm
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on November 24, 2021 3:27PM
  • Amottica
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    [...] and would be easy to adjust the prices for higher end items accordingly. [...]

    It just feels like most people will never get what they want via endeavors because the crates will be gone by the time they save up.

    I hope you know that these two don't make sense together. If you could get 3-4 times the seals you can get now - and the prices are "adjusted accordingly", which means prices will also be 3-4 times higher - people will still have too few seals by the time they'd need them.

    All you'd achieve is to devalue the effort spent up until the change and make the strict "I don't want to play PvP/E" crowd angry because they would miss out on things. And to be honest I'm fine with them not being much of a chore.

    Honestly the prices don't need adjustment, even with the freedom to do more endeavors.
    And the effort spent isn't devalued, it was artificially capped. It needn't be.

    And to all those who "dont' want to play PVP/PVE", always complain regardless. Endeavors are the carrot for cosmetics, designed to get people to participate in things they might otherwise not. No one's going to be hurt by doing PVP for 5 minutes to get 250 endeavors. No one's gonna be scarred by joining a raid or doing a pub dungeon a couple of times a week.
    I just dont feel like their complaints are valid with regards to endeavors. You don't have to do them. Its a reward for playing the game, not a job.

    Right now the cap just means that its a reward for logging in and doing the bare minimum each day. There's no point to doing anything more.

    Endeavors were not created to get people to do different activities. They were created to meet requirements MS agreed to for making it possible to earn crate items via an in-game mechanic.

    The reason the activities vary is so there is likely something for everyone.

    I think it’s as simple as that.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Endeavors were not created to get people to do different activities. They were created to meet requirements MS agreed to for making it possible to earn crate items via an in-game mechanic.

    The reason the activities vary is so there is likely something for everyone.

    Oh, I'd believe there's multiple reasons, and "encourage people to try other content" is one of the minor ones.
  • Elsonso
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    Kalik_Gold wrote: »
    Compared to Events and the work needed, Endeavors aren't bad.

    I HARDLY see anyone riding an Indrik these days, but I guarantee if you save for a year to get an Apex mount. At least one of your characters will be riding that bad boy.

    The indrik was an interesting idea that was taken to the extreme, and then a bit further, just to make sure it was past 'extreme'. :smile: That said, yes, i have one character that rides an indrik as it matches the outfit they wear.

    Endeavors are great "things to do if bored" tasks. Maybe do one or two while waiting for a queue to pop, instead of Netflix. I see that as a greater value than the coin they drop. This is one of those places where ZOS did them for one reason, but another reason is actually better. For me, that is.
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • PizzaCat82
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.

    Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.

    What a strange thing to say. As it has zero to do with any of the responses you got.


    edit: reminds me a bit of the Goode Olde Days on the WoW forums
    "The prices in the <whatever> Rep Shop are a bit high. Perhaps 10-15% less would be better?"
    "Oh, so you want everything mailed to you just for logging in?!?!?!?!11!?!!?!!?"
    /facepalm

    No, because people want the choice to do the bare minimum and don't care that the rewards reflect that.
  • Sylvermynx
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Kalik_Gold wrote: »
    Compared to Events and the work needed, Endeavors aren't bad.

    I HARDLY see anyone riding an Indrik these days, but I guarantee if you save for a year to get an Apex mount. At least one of your characters will be riding that bad boy.

    The indrik was an interesting idea that was taken to the extreme, and then a bit further, just to make sure it was past 'extreme'. :smile: That said, yes, i have one character that rides an indrik as it matches the outfit they wear.

    Endeavors are great "things to do if bored" tasks. Maybe do one or two while waiting for a queue to pop, instead of Netflix. I see that as a greater value than the coin they drop. This is one of those places where ZOS did them for one reason, but another reason is actually better. For me, that is.

    I use an indrik on a dozen of my 60 characters. Really love them, especially the little chirp they make!
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