Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What do you think is more fun for most of the players?
Doing 3 daily tasks + 1 weekly for 40 weeks to get that amount of seals plus having the option to choose which tasks fit your playstyle the most.
OR
Doing 5 daily tasks + 3 weeklies for 40 weeks with being forced to play parts that you don't like (e.g. trials or pvp).
PizzaCat82 wrote: »Well do you think 5 is too many? Or do you just want a choice. I mean we can make it 5/10 I guess. Same end result, pretty much same choice, and now we have the introduction of more seals each day, or week, or even introducing monthly or yearly ones.
The Endeavours are already an unnecessary addition to the daily login rewards from some, I suspect many, players' perspective. They were only introduced to allow ZOS to get round the increasing threat of legal problems with lockboxes, by enabling them to say that anything in the Crown Crates can be obtained by playing the game. Adding even more Endeavours isn't going to resolve anything, and would simply result in either a reduction in the number of seals provided per Endeavour or else an increase in the number of seals required to obtain any worthwhile rewards.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I feel like the current system is barely above login rewards and isn't fun or challenging.
But that is the whole point of the endeavour system, it was designed so that people didn't have to go out of their way to get them, it isn't designed to be challenging, its designed to be easy and that you should get them a lot of the time without having to do anything extra.
What you are proposing turns it into a grind, and for no additional reward, because either the number of endeavours we get will decrease or the amount needed to get something will increase.
You say it doesn't cost anything to do this, that it costs Zos nothing to effectively give a top tier mount every 2 to 3 months rather than every 40 weeks.
Now tell that to the accountants and sales team who are suddenly looking at a massive reduction in income due to the massive decrease in crate sales.
Then tell it to the devs because all of a sudden the money coming into the game has massively reduced which means there is less money for changes and system development
Then tell it to the subscribers who find their eso+ tripling in price to make up for that lost income due to the extra endeavours being given out.
And then the next phase is a massive reduction in subscribers as players desert the game.
With a massive decrease in both income and players Zos decide it is no longer worth paying the server costs and so they close the game.
And all because people were not satisfied with a small amount of "free" cosmetic stuff a year and wanted more, more, more....
ZOS makes $450 million a year mostly from ESO. I do not believe they will bankrupt themselves or Microsoft, or even lose profits.
People who gamble for crates will still do so. And they will still have an awful rate on apex and above rewards.
And I'm not asking for "free" stuff. I'm asking to be rewarded for playing the game. ZOS already does this. Other games do this. Why is this such a foreign concept to people.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »I like that they give us multiple options and we choose which activities we do. As you already mentioned, if we could do all of them, they would just adjust the prices up anyway so you wouldn't progress any faster than you do currently. You would just have to do more for the same outcome.
But no need to worry. If you really want to do that you can. Simply do the other endeavors anyway. You won't get any extra rewards, but since you already wanted the cost to adjust up for more effort, this won't change. You get to put in the extra effort you want and everyone else can continue on as normal. Everybody wins!
So you're saying having the option to do all the endeavors would make the game less fun?
Charlotte_Loreley wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »I like that they give us multiple options and we choose which activities we do. As you already mentioned, if we could do all of them, they would just adjust the prices up anyway so you wouldn't progress any faster than you do currently. You would just have to do more for the same outcome.
But no need to worry. If you really want to do that you can. Simply do the other endeavors anyway. You won't get any extra rewards, but since you already wanted the cost to adjust up for more effort, this won't change. You get to put in the extra effort you want and everyone else can continue on as normal. Everybody wins!
So you're saying having the option to do all the endeavors would make the game less fun?
It's basically daily quests or anything a game encourages to do for a certain reward.
For example, if you don't do pledges you will not get keys. Someone who doesn't like doing stuff like that will say, "Hell, I don't even need keys anymore". BAM! An update/event drops that gives an important use for keys. That same person now says, "***! I am going to miss out on so much stuff because I didn't do my daily chores in the game".
The same applies to endeavors. If you make all of them doable, that person would "feel obligated" to do them all even though he doesn't even want to do them because maybe he hates that activity or it's not fun to him.
The majority of people hate daily activities in games. They just want to jump into the game play on their own time and do the stuff they want to do. But the games need to meet certain number of players online for a certain period of time metric. Thus, they add daily activities with unique rewards so people spend time doing them.
So, YES! Giving more daily stuff to do in a game makes it boring and takes away fun. A better suggestion would be to increase the number of endeavors to do and provide more choices for WEEKLY endeavors.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What do you think is more fun for most of the players?
Doing 3 daily tasks + 1 weekly for 40 weeks to get that amount of seals plus having the option to choose which tasks fit your playstyle the most.
OR
Doing 5 daily tasks + 3 weeklies for 40 weeks with being forced to play parts that you don't like (e.g. trials or pvp).
The first, of course.
(and "let us do all of them, and just double the costs of stuff in the store" is awful for nearly everyone. The number of people going "gee, I wish I could do them all" vs the people thinking "oh, good, I can actually do three of today'd dailies and a weekly" is small. Making everything cost a lot more just to cater to "I wanna do them all!" would screw over many who'd now have a lot more weeks before they could get things they're interested in.)
PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Well do you think 5 is too many? Or do you just want a choice. I mean we can make it 5/10 I guess. Same end result, pretty much same choice, and now we have the introduction of more seals each day, or week, or even introducing monthly or yearly ones.
The Endeavours are already an unnecessary addition to the daily login rewards from some, I suspect many, players' perspective. They were only introduced to allow ZOS to get round the increasing threat of legal problems with lockboxes, by enabling them to say that anything in the Crown Crates can be obtained by playing the game. Adding even more Endeavours isn't going to resolve anything, and would simply result in either a reduction in the number of seals provided per Endeavour or else an increase in the number of seals required to obtain any worthwhile rewards.
I agree they are a pointless addition of simple activities designed to allow ZOS to engage in whatever bad behavior with regards to crates and gambling.
Do you have a solution to the fact that the rate of endeavors is woefully inadequate to get people even interested in crates without sounding like you want "all the cosmetics for free"?
There's got to be a middle ground because I finish them every day and simply think, "Wow, not a single activity that was new, hard, or interesting"
And please please please for the love of all that is holy, please don't respond with "Thats how they're supposed to be" as if moses himself came down with 3 stone tablets and booming voices and decried it. Things change. Companies can learn.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »everyone wants their login rewards instead so they don't have any negative consequences in their game.
Yes because unlike a dungeon or something, this is a DAILY chore. I don't want negativity introduced into every play session. Dailies are supposed to be quick and easy tasks for minor rewards.
Offering a reward is not the same as forcing you to do the task.
Good thing that's not what I said then! Might want to reread.spartaxoxo wrote: »Who wants to miss stuff or be forced into activities they don't like every single day for the rest of the game's lifespan?
I'm sorry not being able to do everything every would introduce negativity for you. I don't see anything listed in the last year that would require me to put in a ton of effort or time.
There would be more rewards the next day, if you did not get all of them this day.
Limits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »AlsoLimits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring
Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.
(personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »AlsoLimits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring
Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.
(personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)
Sylvermynx wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »AlsoLimits on Endeavors makes them pretty boring
Endeavors are pretty boring. Having you do more of them each day, doesn't make them less boring.
(personally, I log in; look at the dailies; if they don't align with what I was planning to do I'll quickly pound them out on whichever alt is best for them; and then move on to actually doing the things I wanted to. Making that list longer doesn't sound very attractive.)
Me too. They're not "fun" necessarily, but easy works for me.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »"Maybe not payout less seals"
I mean, no offense, but they've already been paying out less seals on a weekly basis than they did at launch. I just don't see that happening.
It's also irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many seals it pays out, having it divisible by 5 instead of 3 would result in less payout per task.
They could be willing to give out 100 seals per day and 33.33 seals would be more seals than 25.
The difference between the two tasks is one introduces a reward/punishment system for willingness to play all the activities the game has to offer, and the other gives players choices.
I'd rather have choice.redspecter23 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I don't believe doing more endeavors would make the game worse. Most of them are incredibly easy. None of them are required to enjoy the game.
It would fix most people's complaints with the endeavors cheapness by tying it to effort instead of time. People can still choose not to do them, and of course the gambling could be for people who don't want to put in the effort.
I don't see how it would take away choice if the reward values stayed the same. I don't see how it would bankrupt ZOS to let a few more items out of the crates besides an apex every 6 months or radiant every year. Might even get more people playing.
I do see why they are like they are, and I don't agree with the cash grab. Most of us pay a monthly fee. Most of us get the expansions every year. The whales will still be whales.
You are correct in that you don't see many of the objections to your proposal. While you don't have to agree with others, it is important to at least accept that others do see things differently. You're not likely to change the minds of those that are disagreeing in this thread. Your points are very clear. They just aren't attractive to me. I can't speak for others.
The idea that they can just up the rewards or give away more of this or that is something you'd have to take up with ZOS. At the end of the day, people will always accept more. Why get $5 when you could get $10 or $50 or $5000? ZOS has decided on their reward structure for this system. Realistically, telling them they won't go bankrupt by upping the rewards isn't going to change their minds. You're basically telling them they will make less money. That's not really a good way to convince a company to do a thing.
Its just strange that everyone's okay with endeavors being lowered each month but when I try to offer a solution that gives more, its a symphony of people not wanting to put in the effort that might actually make the game more interesting.
Like obviously it wont be the most lucrative suggestion for ZOS but it'd make logging in each week actually interesting.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.
Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.
Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.
VaranisArano wrote: »Please don't go dismissing concerns as "people just want free rewards." I'm fine doing three tasks, most days. I don't want more tasks, especially when it means I can no longer skip the ones I find boring, tedious, and relatively time consuming when I logged on to actually play the game.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.
Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.
PizzaCat82 wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »[...] and would be easy to adjust the prices for higher end items accordingly. [...]
It just feels like most people will never get what they want via endeavors because the crates will be gone by the time they save up.
I hope you know that these two don't make sense together. If you could get 3-4 times the seals you can get now - and the prices are "adjusted accordingly", which means prices will also be 3-4 times higher - people will still have too few seals by the time they'd need them.
All you'd achieve is to devalue the effort spent up until the change and make the strict "I don't want to play PvP/E" crowd angry because they would miss out on things. And to be honest I'm fine with them not being much of a chore.
Honestly the prices don't need adjustment, even with the freedom to do more endeavors.
And the effort spent isn't devalued, it was artificially capped. It needn't be.
And to all those who "dont' want to play PVP/PVE", always complain regardless. Endeavors are the carrot for cosmetics, designed to get people to participate in things they might otherwise not. No one's going to be hurt by doing PVP for 5 minutes to get 250 endeavors. No one's gonna be scarred by joining a raid or doing a pub dungeon a couple of times a week.
I just dont feel like their complaints are valid with regards to endeavors. You don't have to do them. Its a reward for playing the game, not a job.
Right now the cap just means that its a reward for logging in and doing the bare minimum each day. There's no point to doing anything more.
Endeavors were not created to get people to do different activities. They were created to meet requirements MS agreed to for making it possible to earn crate items via an in-game mechanic.
The reason the activities vary is so there is likely something for everyone.
Kalik_Gold wrote: »Compared to Events and the work needed, Endeavors aren't bad.
I HARDLY see anyone riding an Indrik these days, but I guarantee if you save for a year to get an Apex mount. At least one of your characters will be riding that bad boy.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I guess "playing the game" is too much for most people and maybe they should just put the endeavors into the login rotation and jack up the prices on crown items to maximize profits.
Because that seems like it would appeal to the most people.
What a strange thing to say. As it has zero to do with any of the responses you got.
edit: reminds me a bit of the Goode Olde Days on the WoW forums
"The prices in the <whatever> Rep Shop are a bit high. Perhaps 10-15% less would be better?"
"Oh, so you want everything mailed to you just for logging in?!?!?!?!11!?!!?!!?"
/facepalm
Kalik_Gold wrote: »Compared to Events and the work needed, Endeavors aren't bad.
I HARDLY see anyone riding an Indrik these days, but I guarantee if you save for a year to get an Apex mount. At least one of your characters will be riding that bad boy.
The indrik was an interesting idea that was taken to the extreme, and then a bit further, just to make sure it was past 'extreme'.That said, yes, i have one character that rides an indrik as it matches the outfit they wear.
Endeavors are great "things to do if bored" tasks. Maybe do one or two while waiting for a queue to pop, instead of Netflix. I see that as a greater value than the coin they drop. This is one of those places where ZOS did them for one reason, but another reason is actually better. For me, that is.