LET US RANDOM GROUP QUEUE FOR TRIALS!!!!!

SimonThesis · November 2021

I think craglorn is the makeshift trial finder just type lfg and you're sure to get a whisper.

Grandchamp1989 · November 2021

I got a system in mind I think could work:

Trial and Arena finder:
-Normal Run (open for all)

-Vet Arena (open for all at cp160+)
-Vet Trial (Craglorn Trials open for all at cp160+)

-Specific Vet DLC Trial (opens after you get the achievement with your guild)

Tommy_The_Gun · November 2021

Randoms can queue for vet DLC 4-man dungeons, and those can be more challenging than many normal trials, so I don't really see a reason why group finder does not support 12-man content. I mean, difficulty of the content is not the factor here...

I remember that during some ESO twitch stream with devs, there was a Q&A section and some one asked if 12-man content will ever be supported by activity finder. The answer was basically that very often regular group finder does not work as intended and they focus more of making it work. So the issue here is purely technical. The message basically was that it will be a feature in the future when they make regular 4-man activity finder work reliably.

^ It was some time ago though, and group finder works more or less reliable now. The only issue is the amount of DPS vs Tanks vs Healers. So they should rather work on somehow decreasing the number of DPS in the queue and 12 man group seems like it could potentiality do that.

Either way, I have different question: Why Arenas are not supported ?
It is also a 4-man content too... So it would not require re-inventing MM system.

haelgaan · November 2021

By the Gods, yes- please. Dungeon Finder for pugging nTrials would be far preferable to pissing away time navel-gazing in Craglorn waiting for the raid you want to be mentioned. vTrials, I imagine, would be buyer-beware, same as any vDungeon, or same as pugging a vTrial in Craglorn, now...

TelvanniWizard · November 2021

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'm just gonna add to the list of people suggesting an LFG board, similar to the Guild Finder. In theory it's a pretty simple and elegant solution to a problem that a lot of people on these forums seem to have, myself included. It also gets around the major issue that everyone brings up with an automated finder, in that you can actually find people with similar goals and levels of experience rather than leaving it up to chance, as well as letting you set the number of each role that you want to run with. Really I can't see a downside to it.

And for the [snip] "Just join a guild 4head" comments, like this:

Malfious1986 wrote: »

Join a guild, sign up for trials.

Some of us work full-time or more, at night, and/or on weekends. Finding guilds who run scheduled trials in the morning hours is nigh impossible. I even joined an Australian guild, yet still couldn't make a single run they had going. It's just not a practical solution for everyone. Also. . .

@Soulshine [snip] I'm all for encouraging social activity in MMOs. I think it's part of what makes them great. But I don't care to force people to socialize just to enjoy the game's full spectrum of content[snip]. You compare this situation to McDonald's and exercise, ignoring the fact that the actual work is doing the trial itself, as well as the fact that it is much harder to have a successful run with a PUG compared to an organized team. You say there are plenty of tools? Where? There's guilds and standing in Craglorn. The former is a general social tool, not dedicated to trials, while the latter is about an inch above the OP's original suggestion (And miles below the LFG board many others are suggesting).

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Agree with all your points! At this moment, there isn't, imho, a single valid reason not to implement such a feature of optional use!

aaisoaho · November 2021

Ksariyu wrote: »

...

And for the [snip] "Just join a guild 4head" comments, like this:

Malfious1986 wrote: »

Join a guild, sign up for trials.

Some of us work full-time or more, at night, and/or on weekends. Finding guilds who run scheduled trials in the morning hours is nigh impossible. I even joined an Australian guild, yet still couldn't make a single run they had going. It's just not a practical solution for everyone.

...

This. So much this. I'm on the same boat, being in an oceanic guild just for getting a better chance of making it into vTrials. I know I cannot stretch my timetables far enough to be able to start playing around 20:00 - 21:00 for a couple of hours. It is just not reasonable for me.

Even a post board with the ability to search groups based on their preferred playtime would be a step up for me. Because at the moment, finding a regular group playing at the same hours as me, is an unicorn for me. It is my white whale.

The3sFinest · November 2021

Grega wrote: »

HollowDreams wrote: »

I dont know about you, but i am pretty fed up that i wont be able to ever complete trials in this game unless i waste my time and energy pretending to be social just to find a damn group to run a stupid trial, are you kidding me? Just let us queue for trials same way we do for dungeons, and dont come up with that bs saying trials is different because i dont care if no one in the group knows mechanics, you gotta start somewhere and this is just stupid that we have to go trough so much non sense just to play the game...I am 100% confident more people share the same opinion as me..Just please let us queue for trials.

There are many dungeons you can do while ignoring mechanics and not being social with the group. There are 0 trials you can complete with that mentality.

I have heard opposite of this many times. It just is not true. It is funny to see so many people against it like they will be forced to use the feature.

Mushroomancer · November 2021

The3sFinest wrote: »

I have heard opposite of this many times. It just is not true. It is funny to see so many people against it like they will be forced to use the feature.

As pretty much everybody said, nobody is against the feature per se, the problem with it is that it's not gonna be the saving grace of everyone not being able to find a trial. Of course, if and when something like this comes out, I will be laughing about all the threads people are gonna open crying about people not knowing mechanics. That's why I think this is only gonna work for normal trials, and should probably include some sort of teaching tool for the trials you can enter, since the game does a really poor job of explaining them to you, or even hinting at them for that matter.
As for the idea in and of itself, yeah sure, more options are always better.
As for what you say, in most veteran trials, in order to skip a specific mechanic you're gonna need to have DDs that can actually pull their weight and do some serious damage; in veteran dungeons, many mechanics can be skipped with raw damage, since they require less total dps to be skipped, and as I'm sure you've noticed by the "fashionable" 3 DDs 1 Tank setup most groups will use to clear dungeons, and even achievement runs.

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2021

This is very needed. I am a part of several trial discords and one trial guild, but scraping together 12 people is no easy task. A trial group finder is absolutely necessary. Just like dungeons, it would have its problems with people queueing as the wrong role, but that's why vote kick is an option. I think this would increase player participation in trials and would enable people to meet other like minded folks. Might encourage people to get their feet wet.

The3sFinest · November 2021

Mushroomancer wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

I have heard opposite of this many times. It just is not true. It is funny to see so many people against it like they will be forced to use the feature.

As pretty much everybody said, nobody is against the feature per se, the problem with it is that it's not gonna be the saving grace of everyone not being able to find a trial. Of course, if and when something like this comes out, I will be laughing about all the threads people are gonna open crying about people not knowing mechanics. That's why I think this is only gonna work for normal trials, and should probably include some sort of teaching tool for the trials you can enter, since the game does a really poor job of explaining them to you, or even hinting at them for that matter.
As for the idea in and of itself, yeah sure, more options are always better.
As for what you say, in most veteran trials, in order to skip a specific mechanic you're gonna need to have DDs that can actually pull their weight and do some serious damage; in veteran dungeons, many mechanics can be skipped with raw damage, since they require less total dps to be skipped, and as I'm sure you've noticed by the "fashionable" 3 DDs 1 Tank setup most groups will use to clear dungeons, and even achievement runs.

This is my exact point. Nobody is going to force you to use it. If this will be your biggest fear, then guess who will be to blame about this issue? You. You had the choice to pre-group or use the tool...

drsalvation · November 2021

lozq wrote: »

I mean....'social' is a bit of an exaggeration.

Pugging a trial in my experience consists of:

1) Port to Belkarth
2) Wait until someone says 'LF heals and DPS for nHRC'
3) Whisper them 'DPS here for nHRC'
4) Get invited to group
5) Muck around on the outfit station, do crafting dailies or kill stuff in Spellscar until the group is ready

Even once you're in the trial you don't even need to communicate most of the time. If it's a bunch of noobs then someone will usually shout out a basic description of mechanics. A few trials have mechanics where the group splits up, and all that requires is someone saying '4 dps 1 tank 1 healer each group' and you shuffle into position. I've done plenty of runs where I haven't used chat once during the whole trial.

No-one is pugging trials because they want to have an involved discussion about the duality of man - they want phat loot in as little time as possible. My advice: watch a few youtube runs of the trial you want to do, slip in as a DPS and be a quiet but competent group member. Try not to die, slay some mobs, profit.

^^ this, it took me months to do a run in aetherial archive because I wanted resilient yokeda set.
After that, I've been basically soloing it up until the first boss (the storm attro). It takes me a tremendously huge amount of time, switching gear between battles, only to get one single drop of trial gear from that boss.
PUGs are mostly gear scavengers anyway, and if we gotta reset trials, why not? I don't think people really care to finish it if they're just looking for gear drops.

And for the people who say "I don't wanna have to deal with noobs"
Then... don't use trial group finder? How have you been playing trials before and why would a PUG for trials affect your style anyway?

Mushroomancer · November 2021

The3sFinest wrote: »

This is my exact point. Nobody is going to force you to use it. If this will be your biggest fear, then guess who will be to blame about this issue? You. You had the choice to pre-group or use the tool...

If I'm reading this correctly you are under the impression that I fear a trial finder will be forced upon me and I will have to deal with the "noobs" that will no doubt infest its queues. That is not the case.

As I said, if a trial finder is a thing many people feel is necessary, and it gets implemented, the more power to them. I will never use such a tool, since I'm in an active trial group, and I wouldn't feel the need to do trial runs even if I weren't in one.

I was simply pointing out how it's very likely that if such a feature gets implemented, there's gonna be a lot of people complaining about the fact that many many players don't know the first things about a trial, and for good reason (as I mentioned that the game does a poor job, if even that, at teachin players about the mechanics of a trial). And if and when that happens, I will be mildly amused by it, that's it.

kargen27 · November 2021

Malfious1986 wrote: »

Join a guild, sign up for trials.

I'm in five guilds. One of them I am a member of their trial progression team. Another runs scheduled trial events twice a week and has spontaneous runs also. I have odd hours so there isn't always someone around to run trials let alone 11 someones.
The group finder for dungeons was created to help players wanting to run specific dungeons fill their group. Would be good if the game had something in place that allowed the same with trials. Even in an active guild you can't always get 12 players outside peak hours.

Grega · November 2021

The3sFinest wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

HollowDreams wrote: »

I dont know about you, but i am pretty fed up that i wont be able to ever complete trials in this game unless i waste my time and energy pretending to be social just to find a damn group to run a stupid trial, are you kidding me? Just let us queue for trials same way we do for dungeons, and dont come up with that bs saying trials is different because i dont care if no one in the group knows mechanics, you gotta start somewhere and this is just stupid that we have to go trough so much non sense just to play the game...I am 100% confident more people share the same opinion as me..Just please let us queue for trials.

There are many dungeons you can do while ignoring mechanics and not being social with the group. There are 0 trials you can complete with that mentality.

I have heard opposite of this many times. It just is not true. It is funny to see so many people against it like they will be forced to use the feature.

I’m not against it, I just provided information on why it wouldn’t work.

Also, to say “it’s just not true” is actually really rude. Trials are known to be heavy on cooperation. It’s not an unknown thing. The person who started this thread would not start one of what you said were accurate, because it would be easy to get into trials then.

Also, many more people guild-pug group outside of group finder rather than use the built in group finder. Primarily because of bad experiences with people being not good enough to complete content or fake rolling.

So to that point, I am saying not to implement it because it will be underused feature and instead divert effort into something else in the game that would be used more or into fixing many issues that need fixing.

Jeremy · November 2021

Grega wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

HollowDreams wrote: »

I dont know about you, but i am pretty fed up that i wont be able to ever complete trials in this game unless i waste my time and energy pretending to be social just to find a damn group to run a stupid trial, are you kidding me? Just let us queue for trials same way we do for dungeons, and dont come up with that bs saying trials is different because i dont care if no one in the group knows mechanics, you gotta start somewhere and this is just stupid that we have to go trough so much non sense just to play the game...I am 100% confident more people share the same opinion as me..Just please let us queue for trials.

There are many dungeons you can do while ignoring mechanics and not being social with the group. There are 0 trials you can complete with that mentality.

I have heard opposite of this many times. It just is not true. It is funny to see so many people against it like they will be forced to use the feature.

I’m not against it, I just provided information on why it wouldn’t work.

Also, to say “it’s just not true” is actually really rude. Trials are known to be heavy on cooperation. It’s not an unknown thing. The person who started this thread would not start one of what you said were accurate, because it would be easy to get into trials then.

Also, many more people guild-pug group outside of group finder rather than use the built in group finder. Primarily because of bad experiences with people being not good enough to complete content or fake rolling.

So to that point, I am saying not to implement it because it will be underused feature and instead divert effort into something else in the game that would be used more or into fixing many issues that need fixing.

To say "it's just not true" isn't really rude. Come on now.

Many trials, especially on normal, are way easier than current dungeon content (especially the DLC variety) that is already available through the activity finder. So if it's good enough for those I don't see why it shouldn't be good enough for trials also.

I also disagree with you about it being a "underused feature". I think people would use the ____ out of it. A lot of people would like to be able to experience that content without having to go through all the headaches of maintaining a guild schedule or advertising in chat.

Hapexamendios · November 2021

Don't really see an reason not to have one, but I wouldn't use it.

gamma71 · November 2021

People can't even barely run random normal with out crying as it is. I can only imagine the complaining and tears this would bring. Zos has better things to work on.

Kwoung · November 2021

It probably won't get implemented, simply because ZOS doesn't want to deal with all the complaints, forum spam and inevitable support tickets from folks complaining about fake DPS/TANKS/HEALERS or whatever. Players would then ask that some sort of DPS check be implemented, or gear/skill check, or who knows what else. No company intentionally does things that would increase complaints and generate support tickets... they do it enough to themselves by mistake.

Soulshine · November 2021

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'm just gonna add to the list of people suggesting an LFG board, similar to the Guild Finder. In theory it's a pretty simple and elegant solution to a problem that a lot of people on these forums seem to have, myself included. It also gets around the major issue that everyone brings up with an automated finder, in that you can actually find people with similar goals and levels of experience rather than leaving it up to chance, as well as letting you set the number of each role that you want to run with. Really I can't see a downside to it.

And for the [snip] "Just join a guild 4head" comments, like this:

Malfious1986 wrote: »

Join a guild, sign up for trials.

Some of us work full-time or more, at night, and/or on weekends. Finding guilds who run scheduled trials in the morning hours is nigh impossible. I even joined an Australian guild, yet still couldn't make a single run they had going. It's just not a practical solution for everyone. Also. . .

@Soulshine [snip] I'm all for encouraging social activity in MMOs. I think it's part of what makes them great. But I don't care to force people to socialize just to enjoy the game's full spectrum of content[snip]. You compare this situation to McDonald's and exercise, ignoring the fact that the actual work is doing the trial itself, as well as the fact that it is much harder to have a successful run with a PUG compared to an organized team. You say there are plenty of tools? Where? There's guilds and standing in Craglorn. The former is a general social tool, not dedicated to trials, while the latter is about an inch above the OP's original suggestion (And miles below the LFG board many others are suggesting).

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

I listed tools as Guild finder and Discord because both of these are fast, easy to use, and simple ways to get into trials almost immediately. All you have to do is choose a guild that has trials as a focus, same with Discord groups. It takes like 2 seconds to do. A little effort on you part and you're golden.

People keep saying they don't like that though. Well, then by all means keep pugging and asking for tools to pug then.

The problem with treating trials like nothing more than another dungeon to do is that trials do not work like dungeons and require actual competency to complete. If they implement a tool that just slaps people together and that's it, it doesn't facilitate anything other than putting them together. If you are comfortable pugging, then keep at it. But if you are interested in actually becoming competent at doing vet trials and succeeding at them, doing nothing but randoms is not the way to go about it.

Now, since ZoS sees fit to keep snipping anything else I could say about this, I will have to leave it at that.

karekiz · November 2021

Grega wrote: »

HollowDreams wrote: »

I dont know about you, but i am pretty fed up that i wont be able to ever complete trials in this game unless i waste my time and energy pretending to be social just to find a damn group to run a stupid trial, are you kidding me? Just let us queue for trials same way we do for dungeons, and dont come up with that bs saying trials is different because i dont care if no one in the group knows mechanics, you gotta start somewhere and this is just stupid that we have to go trough so much non sense just to play the game...I am 100% confident more people share the same opinion as me..Just please let us queue for trials.

There are many dungeons you can do while ignoring mechanics and not being social with the group. There are 0 trials you can complete with that mentality.

That really isn't true. I would argue that there are many that don't require voice coms to complete, especially if you are talking normal. Hell I would put LoM HM above VSS in terms of difficulty.

M0ntie · November 2021

I suppose having a trial finder isn’t really any different to pugging trials in Craglorn, which is currently the means for finding trials. Then people wanting to pug trials could do things in other zones while waiting for a group.
I’d add making it a trial and arena finder.

It should be only for CP160 or higher.

As has been said, people don’t have to use it. And joining a guild that supports teaching people trials would absolutely be my recommendation for people new to trials. I suspect the problem with fake tanks and healers would be swiftly addressed because the raid lead can kick them rq. (I’m assuming that raid lead would have absolute control as is the case now, not by vote as per dungeons.)

Kwoung · November 2021

M0ntie wrote: »

I suppose having a trial finder isn’t really any different to pugging trials in Craglorn, which is currently the means for finding trials. Then people wanting to pug trials could do things in other zones while waiting for a group.
I’d add making it a trial and arena finder.

It should be only for CP160 or higher.

As has been said, people don’t have to use it. And joining a guild that supports teaching people trials would absolutely be my recommendation for people new to trials. I suspect the problem with fake tanks and healers would be swiftly addressed because the raid lead can kick them rq. (I’m assuming that raid lead would have absolute control as is the case now, not by vote as per dungeons.)

Actually, it is very different than pugging trials, because many of the PUG trial leaders who create those groups, are well aware of the folks who are problematic and do not invite those people into their groups. With a random trial queue, you will have to deal with all those folks who seemly go out of their way to wipe the group over and over, among other things. Consider also, since those folks have been 86ed from most PUG trial groups, a Trial Finder queue would be rife with them.

M0ntie · November 2021

Raid lead would still have control so can kick or block known trouble makers.

Kwoung · November 2021

M0ntie wrote: »

Raid lead would still have control so can kick or block known trouble makers.

In a random queue, you get a random leader, who probably doesn't have a list of known trouble makers.

M0ntie · November 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

Raid lead would still have control so can kick or block known trouble makers.

In a random queue, you get a random leader, who probably doesn't have a list of known trouble makers.

Same with Crag pugs. Anyone can start one.
Perhaps for a Trial finder the role of Raid lead would need to be added. I’m assuming also that there won’t be random trial allocation, and that you can queue for the trial(s) that you want to do.

lauykanson · November 2021

Imagine trying to pug vMoL twins, just no

kargen27 · November 2021

lauykanson wrote: »

Imagine trying to pug vMoL twins, just no

Well yeah, some vet trials you are going to want a coordinated group. Normal Cloudrest though you don't even need a full twelve to finish with ease. You get one person that can type into chat the simple mechanic and you are golden. The hardest bit is the blue screen bar swap.
I've joined pug groups that have finished vet trials. Took a while to do it compared to guild runs but we finished. Would be nice to have a tool to be used when we are a few players short getting our full group. Something so we are not standing around in Craglorn throwing pies at each other while waiting to see if a group will start.

AlnilamE · November 2021

HollowDreams wrote: »

I dont know about you, but i am pretty fed up that i wont be able to ever complete trials in this game unless i waste my time and energy pretending to be social just to find a damn group to run a stupid trial, are you kidding me? Just let us queue for trials same way we do for dungeons, and dont come up with that bs saying trials is different because i dont care if no one in the group knows mechanics, you gotta start somewhere and this is just stupid that we have to go trough so much non sense just to play the game...I am 100% confident more people share the same opinion as me..Just please let us queue for trials.

Do you really mean a Random Trial Finder? Like you sign up for a random and the game puts you in the first group that needs your role, regardless of trial? I don't think enough players would want to live that dangerously.

Or do you need an actual Trial Finder for specific trials? That would be possible, but there are some issues with it. For example, you would have to let the devs decide how many tanks/healers the trial needs. Right now, that is a choice the players can make.

But it would help people looking to fill their groups, for sure. But the dungeon finder as is would be an inadequate tool for most groups.

Also, have you considered just starting your own group? Particularly during events like the Witches' Festival?

M0ntie · November 2021

I’m considering how a trial finder would be better than pugging Crags. Say I wanted to fill a nHRC (AY dagger farm), or needed an extra person or two to stand on pads for AA.
At first I was opposed to the idea of a trial finder (Twins prog, ugh), but comparing it to pugging Craglorn, it has advantages.

Hotdog_23 · November 2021

Vote yes for normal trial finder. Most groups are pugs anyway that are formed thru LFG in zone chat. Heck add a daily undaunted pledge to it. Vet trial should stay out of it. Think it would encourage more people to do them and experience them. After all it is content ZOS created why make it so hard for people to experience and enjoy. While they are at it, they should add the 4-man arena's also.

Heck each undaunted pledge giver could give a separate daily pledge, one for trial, one for area's and another for solo arenas to go along with the 4-man dungeon they already give.

Before anyone says it, I know there are only 2 arena and solo areas, but it would give room to expand when and if they add more content like this down the line. Would be fine it they gave no keys just a little exp and gold for completing it like the other 4-man content dungeons.

Stay safe