Vampire is getting nerfed. Again.

HalfDragoness · September 2021

Please no!

But not just because of this one vamprie skill. The problem seems to be that:

ZOS works out skills
Parties of 12 people doing a vet trial runs find ways to exploit particular skills for benefits not intended by the creators
The skill gets nerfed/reworked so that it's no longer fun for the millions of other people who are just derping around

Maybe instead of changing a skill completely you could change the way the skill functions if you're in a group of 5 or more. There are so many things that should be kept in the game for fun and roleplaying purposes that shouldn't just be abandoned because a few people have found an exploit.

Icy_Waffles · September 2021

dinokstrunz wrote: »

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

Seriously this. How stupid a path that some skills only work in pvp or pve.

Rkindaleft · September 2021

They claim to listen to feedback but people have complained about the high damage of this trial since Blackwood's PTS. One of the points that was talked about often was how poorly balanced Bahsei was in particular and the necessity for Mist form. That is what a PTS is for. To provide feedback. Why even have a PTS if you don't consider the feedback? I don't understand the fixation of making Bahsei HM nearly impossible without it, even with it it's probably the hardest boss in the game. Vampire is already bad and there will be zero reason to be a vamp other than for roleplay if this change goes live. Why not just fix the content instead of making a skill completely useless?

hcbigdogdoghc · September 2021

If mistform is not the intended strategy for bahsei hm, can the devs tell us what the strategy is?

Arictheana · September 2021

HalfDragoness wrote: »

Please no!
[*] The skill gets nerfed/reworked so that it's no longer fun for the millions of other people who are just derping around

Yeah =( goodbye pure rp vamp build

dsalter · September 2021

Darrett wrote: »

I still think Vamp and WW should be more powerful than mortal options, at least while solo.

Make them similar to playing as a Jedi in SWG. Forced PvP flags, player bounties, and potential for increasingly powerful NPC hunters to appear. Limit their ability to receive outside healing and buffs. If you die, have some kind of a reconstitution timer that limits your character significantly for the duration.

man dont bring up SWG i still miss that game, probably one of the most perfected MMO's to have ever existed, there was a playstyle for EVERYONE, even grinders or auctioneers.
i loved hunting down jedi, they were one of the most delicecy kills to hunt down before they practically gave everyone jedi since they were so damn rare and hurt a ton.

WhyMustItBe · September 2021

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

They really want vRG HM to be nearly impossible. On the PTS tanks could dodge all the attacks there. Then in a PTS update they made all the attacks undodgable. So on Live players got crafty and used mist form. Now that won't work.

That can't be a reason to just delete a skill from a tree that is already largely useless outside of casual RP since the normal ability cost increase even at rank 1 went live.

I mean I can build a bloat tank with Ebon/Plague and stack 30k+ shields on top of 50k+ health to mitigate overtuned damage. Will that get those sets removed, or shields?

There has to be a more creative way to tune content without sacrificing build options, and it wouldn't hurt to give the vampire changes an overall second "fun factor" pass while they are at it.

Avoranti · September 2021

dinokstrunz wrote: »

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

I have a solo Necro that uses mist form and has never even been in rockgrove.

Avoranti · September 2021

Nchuleftingth wrote: »

They claim to listen to feedback but people have complained about the high damage of this trial since Blackwood's PTS. One of the points that was talked about often was how poorly balanced Bahsei was in particular and the necessity for Mist form. That is what a PTS is for. To provide feedback. Why even have a PTS if you don't consider the feedback? I don't understand the fixation of making Bahsei HM nearly impossible without it, even with it it's probably the hardest boss in the game. Vampire is already bad and there will be zero reason to be a vamp other than for roleplay if this change goes live. Why not just fix the content instead of making a skill completely useless?

I was going to mention the PTS feedback too. I vaguely recall tanks on PTS specifically complaining about having to become vampires for the rockgrove fight because there was no other way to survive it.

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

If mistform is not the intended strategy for bahsei hm, can the devs tell us what the strategy is?

That would require them to actually play the content they created. I would love to see the devs run these hm’s and show us da way.

Billy2112 · October 2021

If they allowed health recovery (at stage 4) to be applied at 75% efficacy from applied consumables I think this would go a long way to help and not make being a vampire lame. The 0 health recovery is contrarian for the vampire as it is.

JMadFour · October 2021

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Mist form will no longer work against PvE enemies, making it exclusively a PvP skill. Their reasoning is because it is meant as a disengagement skill and not as a tanking ability. This reasoning does not make any sense due to Blood Mist, which is a damaging ability. Making mist form no longer work in PvE is going to make playing as a vampire even more niche than it already is. Every patch vampire gets a nerf of some kind, and eventually all vampire will be is just a skin. This mistreatment of vampire has to end.

Wow.

Just wow.

This Vampire Main just freed up 87gb on my Xbox hard drive. I'll check in 6 months from now to see if it is worth playing a Vampire again.

Slimebrow · October 2021

JMadFour wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Mist form will no longer work against PvE enemies, making it exclusively a PvP skill. Their reasoning is because it is meant as a disengagement skill and not as a tanking ability. This reasoning does not make any sense due to Blood Mist, which is a damaging ability. Making mist form no longer work in PvE is going to make playing as a vampire even more niche than it already is. Every patch vampire gets a nerf of some kind, and eventually all vampire will be is just a skin. This mistreatment of vampire has to end.

Wow.

Just wow.

This Vampire Main just freed up 87gb on my Xbox hard drive. I'll check in 6 months from now to see if it is worth playing a Vampire again.

ooofff yikes, ah well time for me leave this dump too. Ah well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

StamPlar_1976 · October 2021

Soooo..... Vamp isn't checking all the blocks on what makes a vampire anymore? Lol.

Vevvev · October 2021

StamPlar_1976 wrote: »

Soooo..... Vamp isn't checking all the blocks on what makes a vampire anymore? Lol.

According to Rich the ability that ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a vampire is still useable

. If by useable you mean solo PvE only or PvP ganking...

Hawkbru · November 2021

I can't believe this happened... How hard would have been to rework the skill to buff resistances, instead of disabling it for PvE? This decision makes no sense at all.

Avoranti · November 2021

Hawkbru wrote: »

I can't believe this happened... How hard would have been to rework the skill to buff resistances, instead of disabling it for PvE? This decision makes no sense at all.

As stated in an above comment. They intended it to be a disengagement tool. Which is exactly what the players in VRG are doing. Disengaging from a fight so they don’t get hit with an unblockable/undodgable dot.
Furthermore, the morph Blood Mist does damage back to the enemy. So it’s INTENT clearly was to be used IN COMBAT. Otherwise what was the point? The skill was fine until vRG released and instead of adjusting the trial they punished the entire community.

What makes me really angry about this is there is video of Rich talking about how the devs really make a point to not let a small % of the player base dictate these kinds of big changes (to gear/skills) all while letting a small % of players cause a skill to be completely removed from PVE. I mean, what % of the player base across all platforms were doing vRG HM anyway? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I bet it’s less than 1% of the player base. I’d bet the majority of players have never even been in rockgrove let alone any trial. Only the very top tear end-game players were in there.

And this likely would have never happened if they actually done something with the feedback PTS gave them. Why make it were the attack can’t be dodged? And I don’t want to hear about “heal checks” because clearly the players on PTS didn’t think about that.
Sometimes I wonder if the creators of this game really think we are stupid.

Grandchamp1989 · November 2021

They should disable skills in PvP aswell that are broken in PvP but work as intended in PvE.
This should go both ways as to not ruin it in PvE.

This may be the beginning of banning certain abilities in different game modes.

Vevvev · November 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

They should disable skills in PvP aswell that are broken in PvP but work as intended in PvE.
This should go both ways as to not ruin it in PvE.

This may be the beginning of banning certain abilities in different game modes.

I sure hope not. There are plenty examples of abilities that work differently in PvP and PvE, which is why ZOS's outright removal of Mistform against environmental and NPC threats is asinine.

They can differentiate between player and NPC so why not make damage mitigation against NPCs and stuff 30% and leave the player mitigation at 75%? They could have done that and while it would've still been a blow it would have been understandable and still have a place in the PvE game. That's not what they did though and it's incredibly disappointing.

alanmatillab16_ESO · November 2021

dsalter wrote: »

Darrett wrote: »

I still think Vamp and WW should be more powerful than mortal options, at least while solo.

Make them similar to playing as a Jedi in SWG. Forced PvP flags, player bounties, and potential for increasingly powerful NPC hunters to appear. Limit their ability to receive outside healing and buffs. If you die, have some kind of a reconstitution timer that limits your character significantly for the duration.

man dont bring up SWG i still miss that game, probably one of the most perfected MMO's to have ever existed, there was a playstyle for EVERYONE, even grinders or auctioneers.
i loved hunting down jedi, they were one of the most delicecy kills to hunt down before they practically gave everyone jedi since they were so damn rare and hurt a ton.

I hear you there. One of my favourite MMO memories was hanging out in the usual Rebel haunt of Anchorhead when someone started up a lightsaber outside. There must have been 50+ players stampede outside to see the Jedi they were so rare, predictably they didn't stay around for long. Didn't they have permadeath too if they "died" more than a few times?

Casul · November 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

They should disable skills in PvP aswell that are broken in PvP but work as intended in PvE.
This should go both ways as to not ruin it in PvE.

This may be the beginning of banning certain abilities in different game modes.

No, don't do this. PvPers didn't ask for this so don't point the finger and try to drag everyone down. Instead we should be working together to avoid skill seperation in PvP and PvE, and remind the developers that this change was not well recieved and there needs to be some use of the skill in PvE. Perhaps even making the blood mist morph into a strong DOT PBAoE that can be used as a DPS tool (Something like damage is based off max stat, but gives a heal based of max health??)

Chrysa1is · November 2021

Team Wolf baby!!!

Spectral_Force · November 2021

Every time I see the Vampire section appear in the patch notes:

Hurbster · November 2021

Remember when the only problem people had with vampires was that they were not pretty enough?

Lixiviant · November 2021

@ZOS_KageW Please enlighten me again. What was the wisdom again on nerfing the Vampire? You DO realize you are killing some of the fun value of this game, don't you?

Remathilis · November 2021

I have a theory that ZoS doesn't know what it wants to do with vampire. I guess they want it to be some form of bomber/ganker solo melee magicka build, but they fear that giving them the tools to be bombers would be too OP, so they keep filling them back more and more so that they are not viable in other types of play. At this point, does vampire bring anything to the table that a decently built nightblade doesn't?

The fighter/mage/psijic lines feel like they augment multiple builds. Undaunted and the PvP lines provide tools you can't get elsewhere. Thieves and DB bring interesting passives for that style of play. Werewolf is an alternate stamina DPS playstyle. Vampire is just a bunch of weak skills that other classes do better an a collection of heavy penalties to use them. Best part of them is the passives and you give up a lot of power to get anything but speed stealth.

The reVamp in Greymoor was a failure. Time to try again.

K9002 · November 2021

Remathilis wrote: »

At this point, does vampire bring anything to the table that a decently built nightblade doesn't?

I think the biggest problem is that nightblade IS more or less the vampire class but without any of the burdens. We can't have a valid vampire system as long as this class exists in its current shape. Half of its identity revolves around illusion magic and manipulation of vital forces. All the good things packed into two skill lines, with the actual curse tacked on as optional condition.

Lixiviant · November 2021

I have 4 characters that are vampire. I'm wondering if I should heal a couple of them just so I'm not frustrated?

Radiance · November 2021

They'll sell a lot of vampire cures then buff it next patch and sell more vampire curses.

IDK what to think anymore but it's always safe to assume it revolves around profit these days.

Remathilis · November 2021

Lixiviant wrote: »

I have 4 characters that are vampire. I'm wondering if I should heal a couple of them just so I'm not frustrated?

I plan on using the armory system to switch my Vamp between RP/solo mode and cured/group mode. Something to consider before you cure it.

Vevvev · November 2021

Remathilis wrote: »

Lixiviant wrote: »

I have 4 characters that are vampire. I'm wondering if I should heal a couple of them just so I'm not frustrated?

I plan on using the armory system to switch my Vamp between RP/solo mode and cured/group mode. Something to consider before you cure it.

I went with a mag/stam vampire/werewolf split. Then if I want vampire or werewolf back I can simply pick them back up or switch between a mag/stam build in a single button. Pretty neat system tbh.