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I don't know whether I've ever seen a single set as mechanically toxic as Dark Convergence

taugrim
taugrim
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For perspective, I make that statement in the subject line after 15 years of playing MMORPGs and PVP in particular. And it's a long list of games.

Anyone who has played more than a handful of BGs the past several weeks can attest to what a bad experience it is playing with DCs procs going off regularly throughout a BG.

The problem with DC is it's faceroll easy to be effective with it, because it creates a 3-4 second window where
1. the affected players get pulled, which is disruptive in itself. Plus they get stunned and snared
2. the affected players have to stop whatever they're doing to get out of it, due to the proc's damage and other incoming enemy damage
3. the allies of the caster can free DPS on the affected targets or have a significant window to recover

Abilities or procs that AOE pull multiple targets are powerful in and of themselves. But to throw on any meaningful damage on top of that is simply unneeded. Back in WAR, the Magus / Engineer mirror class had an AOE pull. But it did no meaningful damage in itself, because that wasn't needed.

I just logged off after 2 consecutive BGs where a premade (from my guild) was using DC and wiping opposing teams, despite facing PUGs they would have easily beat. I was solo queued, and I watched multiple players in both games leave the BGs. I don't blame them. I don't blame my guild, either, since they don't control the game content. There is only 1 entity that is capable of fixing the problem, but it's taking way too long IMO.

I struggle to understand why it has not been patched yet. This is such a bad time to have such a frustrating PVP experience, especially when players are wondering whether the grass is greener in the other new game that has a combat style that is most similar to ESO, relative to other MMORPGs. I have been a diehard loyalist and advocate of ESO (and up until this morning was not meaningfully considering trying out the other option), but even I have my limits.

P.S. I absolutely love ESO's combat and build system. I just despise mechanically toxic sets. And it's immensely frustrating to watch this persist for 6 weeks.
Edited by taugrim on October 12, 2021 4:18AM
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  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
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    It's horrendous in the confined spaces of BGs, and in Cyro all it really accomplishes is random pulls and damage spikes. Faction stacks are still unstoppable, and proper ballgroups are still unkillable. Hrothgar was actually a fair zerg buster that just needed a bug fix, instead that gets nerfed to nothing and we're left godawful DCon pulls forever.

    Absolute design failure.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • taugrim
    taugrim
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    Faction stacks are still unstoppable, and proper ballgroups are still unkillable.

    In most games, this is true, and it's even moreso true in games where any player can meaningfully heal themselves, which is the case with ESO.

    The last game I played where a skilled, coordinated group could wipe 4 times their number was Warhammer Online (WAR). But that was because only some classes / builds could meaningfully self-heal. So if you took out the healers the rest would die to coordinated AOE.

    So in ESO, it's a hard problem to solve. Some games (IIRC WAR) put a buff on the losing World PVP faction. Many games try the 3-faction thing, which helps to a degree, but not when the faction zergs are avoiding one another.
    Edited by taugrim on October 10, 2021 4:42PM
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
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  • HowellQagan
    HowellQagan
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    I'm waiting for the next feature update when they nerf it, ain't gonna PvP until then.
    That annoying dude on PC-EU.
  • taugrim
    taugrim
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    I'm waiting for the next feature update when they nerf it, ain't gonna PvP until then.

    I think there are a meaningful number of people doing the same as you.

    It's part of the active PVP population drain we're seeing over recent weeks.
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
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  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
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    taugrim wrote: »
    In most games, this is true, and it's even moreso true in games where any player can meaningfully heal themselves, which is the case with ESO.
    After 7+ years of power creep, stacking healing simply breaks PvP. It wasn't always this bad.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • Dojohoda
    Dojohoda
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    I hate the set. I took a sniper into cyrodiil yesterday. DC users need to get range-ganked. Fight dirty.
    Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
    Might be joking in comments.
    -->(((Cyrodiil)))<--
  • LarsS
    LarsS
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    There is the the non-proc campaign. :)
    GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Edited by Gilvoth on October 10, 2021 6:25PM
  • Marcus_Aurelius
    Marcus_Aurelius
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it

    DC need to be removed from the game because is just an abomination, no set should be this powerful.
    We don't need the equivalent of a nuke, we need adjusting to broken mechanics that make the other abomination that are ball groups possible.

    PvP in ESO is just a joke now, people loving overpowered set or overpowered mechanics, no other game is so bad and allow those things. ZOS should just focus on that instead of creating more thing to be exploited .
  • taugrim
    taugrim
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    taugrim wrote: »
    In most games, this is true, and it's even moreso true in games where any player can meaningfully heal themselves, which is the case with ESO.
    After 7+ years of power creep, stacking healing simply breaks PvP. It wasn't always this bad.

    They could limit healing in AOE situations.

    I understand that would require computations, and the servers seem to struggle with it.
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
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  • taugrim
    taugrim
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    LarsS wrote: »
    There is the the non-proc campaign. :)

    Doesn't help for folks who enjoy BGs.
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
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  • Mariusghost84
    Mariusghost84
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    My passion for ESO PvP has been severly crippled this patch and DC is the reason why. I play a lot less now. Its THE most disruptive set ive ever encountered in PVP in any game. I adjusted as best i could but as a pure BG player this is sucking the fun out of pvp for me. Beyond frustrating.
  • wazzz56
    wazzz56
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Is this a satirical comment? There has been a lot of horrible ideas released in eso, and this is the worse ever set forth onto live servers...the set is a crutch, a one button carry that though it may be effective against zergs, it is also employed by zergs to chase and group down solo and small groups with the simplicity of one click each.....want to make fighting faction stacks and ball groups easier? bring back no out of group healing and limit group sizes even further.....or just keep on introducing sets that are game breakers and cause an already dwindling population of pvpers to leave the game.....I will end by saying it is ok if you want to use the set, it is your game play as you will.....but to ignore the reality of what that set is and to actually call for it to be buffed is pretty wild.....
    Edited by wazzz56 on October 11, 2021 1:25PM
    GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild


    "After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."
  • Jameson18
    Jameson18
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    wazzz56 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Is this a satirical comment?

    It has to be. [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 11, 2021 4:37PM
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    wazzz56 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Is this a satirical comment? There has been a lot of horrible ideas released in eso, and this is the worse ever set forth onto live servers...the set is a crutch, a one button carry that though it may be effective against zergs, it is also employed by zergs to chase and group down solo and small groups with the simplicity of one click each.....want to make fighting faction stacks and ball groups easier? bring back no out of group healing and limit group sizes even further.....or just keep on introducing sets that are game breakers and cause an already dwindling population of pvpers to leave the game.....I will end by saying it is ok if you want to use the set, it is your game play as you will.....but to ignore the reality of what that set is and to actually call for it to be buffed is pretty wild.....

    its not satire, its not a sarcasm, its not funny, infact it is very embarrassing that new people come to eso and find massive groups destroying the pvp and game.
    we asked for help in stopping the zergs, we got help with this set "dark convergence"
    However, they leaders of these groups has found a way around the set and the set is no longer stoping them, they just run right through it and are not being effected by the set now.

    the. set. needs. its radius increased and the damage increased to help stop the zergs. thats not a joke, its not satire.
    its just plain honest truth and honest feedback.
  • wazzz56
    wazzz56
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    @Gilvoth it is honest opinion..not truth...there is a big difference between them.....the truth is people are leaving eso pvp at an alarming rate and cite dark convergence as a major factor that finally broke the camels back.....your opinion is that this awful set needs to be buffed ....quick question before this conversation moves forward..what is your group size you play with on average?
    GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild


    "After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."
  • Jameson18
    Jameson18
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    Gilvoth wrote: »

    its not satire, its not a sarcasm, its not funny, infact it is very embarrassing that new people come to eso and find massive groups destroying the pvp and game.
    we asked for help in stopping the zergs, we got help with this set "dark convergence"
    However, they leaders of these groups has found a way around the set and the set is no longer stoping them, they just run right through it and are not being effected by the set now.

    the. set. needs. its radius increased and the damage increased to help stop the zergs. thats not a joke, its not satire.
    its just plain honest truth and honest feedback.

    The set is making new people quit. Personally seen and experienced.
    Edited by Jameson18 on October 11, 2021 5:46PM
  • Urzigurumash
    Urzigurumash
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    the. set. needs. its radius increased and the damage increased to help stop the zergs. thats not a joke, its not satire.
    its just plain honest truth and honest feedback.

    How would this diminish the ability of zergs to nullify keep defense by pulling all the defenders off the walls?
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    wazzz56 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Is this a satirical comment? There has been a lot of horrible ideas released in eso, and this is the worse ever set forth onto live servers...the set is a crutch, a one button carry that though it may be effective against zergs, it is also employed by zergs to chase and group down solo and small groups with the simplicity of one click each.....want to make fighting faction stacks and ball groups easier? bring back no out of group healing and limit group sizes even further.....or just keep on introducing sets that are game breakers and cause an already dwindling population of pvpers to leave the game.....I will end by saying it is ok if you want to use the set, it is your game play as you will.....but to ignore the reality of what that set is and to actually call for it to be buffed is pretty wild.....

    its not satire, its not a sarcasm, its not funny, infact it is very embarrassing that new people come to eso and find massive groups destroying the pvp and game.
    we asked for help in stopping the zergs, we got help with this set "dark convergence"
    However, they leaders of these groups has found a way around the set and the set is no longer stoping them, they just run right through it and are not being effected by the set now.

    the. set. needs. its radius increased and the damage increased to help stop the zergs. thats not a joke, its not satire.
    its just plain honest truth and honest feedback.

    I'm sorry but whatever you're given, whatever things are buffed, a ball group will be able to use 12 times more effectively due to numbers. And the day it is no longer profitable to group up for whatever reason the ball groups won't give a [snip]. They'll just continue coordinating in voice chat and stay together like they always do. Numbers and coordination mean everything in this game, and sets like Dark Convergence have only made the situation worse for the people the devs designed the set for.
    Edited by Vevvev on October 11, 2021 8:00PM
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Larcomar
    Larcomar
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    No, you haven't....
  • taugrim
    taugrim
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    wazzz56 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Is this a satirical comment? There has been a lot of horrible ideas released in eso, and this is the worse ever set forth onto live servers...the set is a crutch, a one button carry that though it may be effective against zergs, it is also employed by zergs to chase and group down solo and small groups with the simplicity of one click each.....want to make fighting faction stacks and ball groups easier? bring back no out of group healing and limit group sizes even further.....or just keep on introducing sets that are game breakers and cause an already dwindling population of pvpers to leave the game.....I will end by saying it is ok if you want to use the set, it is your game play as you will.....but to ignore the reality of what that set is and to actually call for it to be buffed is pretty wild.....

    its not satire, its not a sarcasm, its not funny, infact it is very embarrassing that new people come to eso and find massive groups destroying the pvp and game.
    we asked for help in stopping the zergs, we got help with this set "dark convergence"
    However, they leaders of these groups has found a way around the set and the set is no longer stoping them, they just run right through it and are not being effected by the set now.

    the. set. needs. its radius increased and the damage increased to help stop the zergs. thats not a joke, its not satire.
    its just plain honest truth and honest feedback.

    I'm sorry but whatever you're given, whatever things are buffed, a ball group will be able to use 12 times more effectively due to numbers. And the day it is no longer profitable to group up for whatever reason the ball groups won't give a [snip]. They'll just continue coordinating in voice chat and stay together like they always do. Numbers and coordination mean everything in this game, and sets like Dark Convergence have only made the situation worse for the people the devs designed the set for.

    This is SOOO true.

    Ball groups are running DC. It's making it impossible to fight them. If you try to engage, you get tidy bowl'd to a death recap.

    Unless there are mechanics in a game - and I'm not saying there should be - that specifically benefit smaller groups vs larger ones, there is nothing that can be done to defeat ball groups.

    If you give an AOE set to fight the zerg, well guess what, the zerg can use it to.
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
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    BUILDS ADDONS AUTHORED GUILDS:
    • Ankle Biters | Legends Syndicate (PVP) | Moonlit Shenanigans | Song of Broken Pines (PVP) | Ulfhednar (PVP)
  • taugrim
    taugrim
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thread on the ESO sub-Reddit entitled "Just played a BG without anyone running Dark convergence and actually had an enjoyable PVP experience"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/q5wr8j/just_played_a_bg_without_anyone_running_dark/
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
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  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    taugrim wrote: »
    Thread on the ESO sub-Reddit entitled "Just played a BG without anyone running Dark convergence and actually had an enjoyable PVP experience"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/q5wr8j/just_played_a_bg_without_anyone_running_dark/
    Wow lucky you 2 days after this set was released, I have not been in an BG without it on at least one person if not more. Dark Convergence should not be allowed in BG’s if it was designed to stop ball groups in Cyrodill what it is doing in BG’s anyway.

    Stay safe and enjoy the journey :)
  • xDeusEJRx
    xDeusEJRx
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    I feel like all 3 rewards sets are all fundamentally toxic.
    Dark convergence is the yo-yo set
    Plaguebreak is the troll and kill your entire faction with a defensive ability set
    Hrothgar was the get bursted down because a tank was in your vicinity (pre-nerf) set
    Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player

    90% of my body is made of Magblade
  • taugrim
    taugrim
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    taugrim wrote: »
    Thread on the ESO sub-Reddit entitled "Just played a BG without anyone running Dark convergence and actually had an enjoyable PVP experience"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/q5wr8j/just_played_a_bg_without_anyone_running_dark/
    Wow lucky you 2 days after this set was released, I have not been in an BG without it on at least one person if not more. Dark Convergence should not be allowed in BG’s if it was designed to stop ball groups in Cyrodill what it is doing in BG’s anyway.

    Stay safe and enjoy the journey :)

    To me the issue isn't just not having it in BGs. It's TOTALLY toxic for Cyro / IC as well.

    The set is way too faceroll effective in any group context.
    PC | NA | CP 2.2k
    • Active: Dark Elf Stamina Templar | Dark Elf Stamina Necromancer
    • Inactive: Dark Elf Stamina Arcanist | Nord Stamina Warden | Orc Stamina Sorceror | Nord Stamina Nightblade | Nord Stamina Dragonknight
    BUILDS ADDONS AUTHORED GUILDS:
    • Ankle Biters | Legends Syndicate (PVP) | Moonlit Shenanigans | Song of Broken Pines (PVP) | Ulfhednar (PVP)
  • techyeshic
    techyeshic
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    I get people like sets that help them kill other players they couldn't do otherwise. That probably indicates there is a problem but I get it.

    What I don't get is them finding it enjoyable to have to evade the damned thing all over the place. It's counterable; but with how many are using it, all it seems you do is try to stay out of DC until eventually, you either get hit by one by not seeing it at all or being unable to break free and move, all because the game performance.

    Again; it's not about balance. It's about mechanics that are toxic and magnified by performance
  • gamma71
    gamma71
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    I've been playing mmo pvp since 1999 eq1 and have played almost every game that's come out and nothing compares to Dc over powered set. I'm surprised they didn't make it also heal for damage done might as well....
  • neferpitou73
    neferpitou73
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    wazzz56 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    this thread has a toxic taste that is unfair and just plain not the truth of how the majority of eso pvp players feel.
    reading the comments and the thread title gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not the truth seen in pvp and pvp zone chat as well as the guilds im a member of.
    theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
    the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
    the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
    the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
    it needs to stay.

    Absolute Best design ever made, Especially for an mmo that has horrible ball zerg groups like eso.
    its perfect for fighting the zergs here in eso.

    the dark convergence set needs to be buffed in damage as well as Grab ability to zergs to be stronger as we can see that many zergs are escaping it. they simply run through its grab somehow and that needs to be buffed to make sure it keeps working as was intended and spoken about it the patch notes.

    is it possible that the only people angry about this set are the ones in zergs and large groups that it is intended for?
    i dont know, but i can assure you that it does what we asked for when it works as it should.


    and again my comments and feedback here is only just that, my feedback, not intended to anger anyone.

    Is this a satirical comment? There has been a lot of horrible ideas released in eso, and this is the worse ever set forth onto live servers...the set is a crutch, a one button carry that though it may be effective against zergs, it is also employed by zergs to chase and group down solo and small groups with the simplicity of one click each.....want to make fighting faction stacks and ball groups easier? bring back no out of group healing and limit group sizes even further.....or just keep on introducing sets that are game breakers and cause an already dwindling population of pvpers to leave the game.....I will end by saying it is ok if you want to use the set, it is your game play as you will.....but to ignore the reality of what that set is and to actually call for it to be buffed is pretty wild.....

    its not satire, its not a sarcasm, its not funny, infact it is very embarrassing that new people come to eso and find massive groups destroying the pvp and game.
    we asked for help in stopping the zergs, we got help with this set "dark convergence"
    However, they leaders of these groups has found a way around the set and the set is no longer stoping them, they just run right through it and are not being effected by the set now.

    the. set. needs. its radius increased and the damage increased to help stop the zergs. thats not a joke, its not satire.
    its just plain honest truth and honest feedback.

    I'm sorry but whatever you're given, whatever things are buffed, a ball group will be able to use 12 times more effectively due to numbers. And the day it is no longer profitable to group up for whatever reason the ball groups won't give a [snip]. They'll just continue coordinating in voice chat and stay together like they always do. Numbers and coordination mean everything in this game, and sets like Dark Convergence have only made the situation worse for the people the devs designed the set for.

    Yep. My group doesn't play in Proc for a variety of reasons. But if we did I wouldn't hesitate to put DC on as many builds as possible. I saw this set on the PTS and laughed when they said it was going to stop ball groups.
  • moosegod
    moosegod
    ✭✭✭
    I came to the forum to start a thread like this one..

    I can't understand how this set got to release. It is miserably unfun to play against, especially as a melee user. I, like many others here, play mostly BG and in that format Dark Convergence is a nightmare. Even if only one player is using the set it changes the dynamic of the game. Pulled from all directions, sometimes can't even see the AoE ring on the ground because of all the other AoE that is used in a BG. Having to spam through a buggy break free and constantly roll dodge out and away to avoid exploding. After all that now I need to rebuff to try and approach again but wait...there's a 2nd DC user and now we reset back to start. The set is so disruptive to gameplay to the point I am not having fun anymore. A good sorc with mines, streak, an immovable potion, and DC is basically untouchable as a melee user.

    What baffles me is how all of that was overlooked in favor of it maybe slowing down ball groups? Was there no consideration for the close quarters combat of a BG? On some maps the ring is unavoidable unless you want to jump in lava or off the map entirely. Does ZOS consider this level of disruption to be fun? I remember sorc's cage that was once an unavoidable stun, I remember being pulled/stunned just for dealing damage to a player. All of these were later changed IIRC.

    What managment at ZOS is pushing these sets? And why do they release them with back-breaking bugs? They have to know it's annoying and yet release it broken instead of at least making it work as intended. Incredible blunder from the development team and its just another point on a long list of oversights as sets are released and then nerfed or fundamentally changed as people who seem to actually understand the game find and highlight the flaws in ZOS development's mess of designs. A few of these oversights have caused me to leave the game in the past and now as I return to find this set so prevalant I am being tested again. If I hadn't just bought the new expansions and a month of premium my decision would be easy.
  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    taugrim wrote: »
    For perspective, I make that statement in the subject line after 15 years of playing MMORPGs and PVP in particular. And it's a long list of games.

    Anyone who has played more than a handful of BGs the past several weeks can attest to what a bad experience it is playing with DCs procs going off regularly throughout a BG.

    The problem with DC is it's faceroll easy to be effective with it, because it creates a 3-4 second window where
    1. the affected players get pulled, which is disruptive in itself. Plus they get stunned and snared
    2. the affected players have to stop whatever they're doing to get out of it, due to the proc's damage and other incoming enemy damage
    3. the allies of the caster can free DPS on the affected targets or have a significant window to recover

    Abilities or procs that AOE pull multiple targets are powerful in and of themselves. But to throw on any meaningful damage on top of that is simply unneeded. Back in WAR, the Magus / Engineer mirror class had an AOE pull. But it did no meaningful damage in itself, because that wasn't needed.

    I just logged off after 2 consecutive BGs where a premade (from my guild) was using DC and wiping opposing teams, despite facing PUGs they would have easily beat. I was solo queued, and I watched multiple players in both games leave the BGs. I don't blame them. I don't blame my guild, either, since they don't control the game content. There is only 1 entity that is capable of fixing the problem, but it's taking way too long IMO.

    I struggle to understand why it has not been patched yet. This is such a bad time to have such a frustrating PVP experience, especially when players are wondering whether the grass is greener in the other new game that has a combat style that is most similar to ESO, relative to other MMORPGs. I have been a diehard loyalist and advocate of ESO (and up until this morning was not meaningfully considering trying out the other option), but even I have my limits.

    P.S. I absolutely love ESO's combat and build system. I just despise mechanically toxic sets. And it's immensely frustrating to watch this persist for 6 weeks.

    IMO, it's not the set that is the issue it is how CC immunity is applied and how some CC effects simply don't get avoided when a player has CC immunity.

    I've been doubled stunned, than knocked down followed up by another stun all within 6 seconds. All hard effects that apparently don't follow the CC immunity rules. Add to this any pulls, snares, etc... Welcome to PVP... by the time I finished trying to break free, I died from being out of stamina.
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