Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?

Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.

Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.

DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.

And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.

Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.

As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.

There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.

Right, thats my bad. I did not pay much attention to second race rework since it was a lot less interesting. Honestly this whole hybrid push seems a lot more helpful to permablock mag/tank DKs than it will be for stamDks, since there is value in big flat stamina returns for magicka based builds that want block, but the same value is simply not there for when you're trying to sustain a magicka spammable, on a stamina build, while also sustaining your magicka on your spiked armor, cauterize and fragmented shield.

Speaking of which Frag shield has the biggest toll on staminaDk's magicka economy, as its an ability that sucks up a massive amount of magicka and in return gives you passives that makes you a stamDK. If that thing costed 3k a pop, that would completely change the math, but at 4050 magicka every 5 or so seconds, you require 16200 magicka just to keep major mending up for 20 seconds. It also doesn't help that the ability itself is extremely barebones outside of major mending.

Normally this is okay because ''haha I don't have a better magicka dump anyways'', but with the hybrid push this flaw in class design is even more apparent. How am I to be hybridized when 3 of my class defining passives are tied to a very expensive and absolutely useless magicka dump?

This is important keynote because if running magicka whip means you risk running out of major mending at a critical moment, you are better off with uppercut. Unless you get enough value off of flame lash to make up for the lack of major mending, which I doubt, unless I see it function.

Only issue sounds like the major mending but well keep in mind flame lash has a heal attached to it with a reduced cost.

Its a really big stretch to assume that heal will make up for losing mending on all of your other heals but for PvE DDs I see the value. There is potential to blockcast it and create a win condition which would not be a thing if it costed stamina in the first place, but that concern is ALWAYS there now that the hybrid thing is getting pushed by the developers.

The real question here is, will whip, without the engulfing flames debuff, do enough damage to force your opponent into turtling instead of hitting you hard? So if my concerns here sounds unneccessary allow me as I do my very best to explain it to you why keeping mending up is critical for stamDks.

So basically, unlike other DK specs, what makes stamDK tanky is the major mending which buffs your HoTs such as vigor. This means to reach the maximum ''tankyness'', you will want to treat vigor and fragmented shield more like a resistance buff you need to have up than just a heal. Its not there to heal you, its there to prevent you from feeling the need for an emergency heal.

You want your HoTs and mending to be up all the time so that when your opponent inevitably decides to try and burst you down, you'll have the first few ticks of that buffed up HoT absorbing a lot of the damage, making it difficult for your opponent to get you down to execute range. HoT effects can effectively be thought of like your opponent having more HP than they have, and this effect increases more and more as time-to-kill increases.

Good stamDKs will refresh their hots and mending BEFORE they take a big hit, not after. This is stamDK's win condition for that ''war of attrition''. Its because they have no other choice.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?

Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.

Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.

DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.

And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.

Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.

As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.

There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.

Right, thats my bad. I did not pay much attention to second race rework since it was a lot less interesting. Honestly this whole hybrid push seems a lot more helpful to permablock mag/tank DKs than it will be for stamDks, since there is value in big flat stamina returns for magicka based builds that want block, but the same value is simply not there for when you're trying to sustain a magicka spammable, on a stamina build, while also sustaining your magicka on your spiked armor, cauterize and fragmented shield.

Speaking of which Frag shield has the biggest toll on staminaDk's magicka economy, as its an ability that sucks up a massive amount of magicka and in return gives you passives that makes you a stamDK. If that thing costed 3k a pop, that would completely change the math, but at 4050 magicka every 5 or so seconds, you require 16200 magicka just to keep major mending up for 20 seconds. It also doesn't help that the ability itself is extremely barebones outside of major mending.

Normally this is okay because ''haha I don't have a better magicka dump anyways'', but with the hybrid push this flaw in class design is even more apparent. How am I to be hybridized when 3 of my class defining passives are tied to a very expensive and absolutely useless magicka dump?

This is important keynote because if running magicka whip means you risk running out of major mending at a critical moment, you are better off with uppercut. Unless you get enough value off of flame lash to make up for the lack of major mending, which I doubt, unless I see it function.

Only issue sounds like the major mending but well keep in mind flame lash has a heal attached to it with a reduced cost.

Its a really big stretch to assume that heal will make up for losing mending on all of your other heals but for PvE DDs I see the value. There is potential to blockcast it and create a win condition which would not be a thing if it costed stamina in the first place, but that concern is ALWAYS there now that the hybrid thing is getting pushed by the developers.

The real question here is, will whip, without the engulfing flames debuff, do enough damage to force your opponent into turtling instead of hitting you hard? So if my concerns here sounds unneccessary allow me as I do my very best to explain it to you why keeping mending up is critical for stamDks.

So basically, unlike other DK specs, what makes stamDK tanky is the major mending which buffs your HoTs such as vigor. This means to reach the maximum ''tankyness'', you will want to treat vigor and fragmented shield more like a resistance buff you need to have up than just a heal. Its not there to heal you, its there to prevent you from feeling the need for an emergency heal.

You want your HoTs and mending to be up all the time so that when your opponent inevitably decides to try and burst you down, you'll have the first few ticks of that buffed up HoT absorbing a lot of the damage, making it difficult for your opponent to get you down to execute range. HoT effects can effectively be thought of like your opponent having more HP than they have, and this effect increases more and more as time-to-kill increases.

Good stamDKs will refresh their hots and mending BEFORE they take a big hit, not after. This is stamDK's win condition for that ''war of attrition''. Its because they have no other choice.

Tannus15 wrote: »

So my main is a dk tank, but with the armory i'm going to actually get to play him as a dps which should be fun.

I'm really not good at stam OR dk, but here is some numbers.

I ran silver bolts because i hate stone fist and wrecking blow. I went with 2h because it looks cool.
Let's be honest, I'm still a nord, i'm not exactly going to be score pushing wtih this character anyway.

What i will say is that powerlash is amazing. You can't run flamelash as a spammable, you're out of mag in no time at all, however if you run it for powerlash and use it as a burst skill it hits like a truck and you essentially get 5 seconds of free sustain.