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Dragonknight changes in U32
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BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 12:51PM2 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 12:52PM0 -
Jhalan✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
So if you care about balance, would you agree with me if i said ; okay lets put 1-2 sec cd on flame lash's heal BUT lets also nerf templar sweep heal and passive dmg and while we are at it lets nerf blightbones's dmg by roughly 30% to make it on par with skills like crystal weapons or even shalk (which it shouldve been from the start) , nerf spirit mender dmg reduction to 5% ?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 12:53PM3 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
[snip] I never said I don’t care about balance however instead of calling for a nerf to a class skill that is supposedly over performing I’d sooner ask for an equivalent skill of another class be brought to that standard. You say power lash not having a cool down is unbalanced which is interesting considering besides you I haven’t seen any posts under this pts forum saying similarly?
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 12:54PM5 -
Jhalan✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
[snip] I never said I don’t care about balance however instead of calling for a nerf to a class skill that is supposedly over performing I’d sooner ask for an equivalent skill of another class be brought to that standard. You say power lash not having a cool down is unbalanced which is interesting considering besides you I haven’t seen any posts under this pts forum saying similarly?
I have noticed no one else besides this guy . Some people actually say its decent, let alone op. From what ive seen, good magdks swapped a heal skill for a damage skill since magdks dont have any bar space and lash gives you the opportunity to heal, from a guy you set off balance for 7 seconds, after that you have to actively chase and spam lash to get heals if you dont get ccd or snared mind you. Then wait for a long time to do so again. I mean this gives gives dk a helping hand when doing X ( Where they actually lacked.) since you can OB players one after another. In duels? kite and block while off balanced, rebuff, heal, turn around and do your own combo. Problem solved. If you stand there and try to tank it or let the dk spam it, the fault is a bit on you isnt it?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 12:56PM4 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
[snip] I never said I don’t care about balance however instead of calling for a nerf to a class skill that is supposedly over performing I’d sooner ask for an equivalent skill of another class be brought to that standard. You say power lash not having a cool down is unbalanced which is interesting considering besides you I haven’t seen any posts under this pts forum saying similarly?
I have noticed no one else besides this guy . Some people actually say its decent, let alone op. From what ive seen, good magdks swapped a heal skill for a damage skill since magdks dont have any bar space and lash gives you the opportunity to heal, from a guy you set off balance for 7 seconds, after that you have to actively chase and spam lash to get heals if you dont get ccd or snared mind you. Then wait for a long time to do so again. I mean this gives gives dk a helping hand when doing X ( Where they actually lacked.) since you can OB players one after another. In duels? kite and block while off balanced, rebuff, heal, turn around and do your own combo. Problem solved. If you stand there and try to tank it or let the dk spam it, the fault is a bit on you isnt it?
Yes if you sit there and let a dk go ham yes the fault is on the player but varis says if you have to stop fighting something is wrong with the skill. So I guess any skill that puts a player on the defensive must be overperforming in pvp which is virtually every skill that deals damage. But ya it is only him with 3 separate posts.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 12:57PM1 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
[snip] I never said I don’t care about balance however instead of calling for a nerf to a class skill that is supposedly over performing I’d sooner ask for an equivalent skill of another class be brought to that standard. You say power lash not having a cool down is unbalanced which is interesting considering besides you I haven’t seen any posts under this pts forum saying similarly?
The old argument of "buff everything else rather than change a single class".
How many times does it have to be repeated that this doesn't work for multiple reasons:
1. The more changes happen the more likely it is for some of them to be even more problematic.
2. The combat team has neither the time nor the human capital to introduce all those changes in an acceptable time
3. The proposal leads to a constant power creep that doesn't help balance at all.
The people I'm playing with are all banned on the forums or have no interest in discussing with people here because they have no time to repeat the same arguments over and over again to people who have no interest in being honest or having a balanced game.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 1:00PM1 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
So if you care about balance, would you agree with me if i said ; okay lets put 1-2 sec cd on flame lash's heal BUT lets also nerf templar sweep heal and passive dmg and while we are at it lets nerf blightbones's dmg by roughly 30% to make it on par with skills like crystal weapons or even shalk (which it shouldve been from the start) , nerf spirit mender dmg reduction to 5% ?
Why would you put sweeps heal on the same level as the other skills you've listed??
With that logic you would have to nerf strife too.
Necromancer is a failed class that's held together by overperforming skills, the only way to balance it is to completely rework it and then change its identity to be the most volatile class in the game rather than the most tanky one.
Spirit guardian is overperforming and shouldn't give an unnamed buff but rather minor protection.
Not mentioning intensive mender is a fault because that morph is even more op.
The list of necro issues is long and there have been posts in the past which have highlighted that issue properly like this one:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580062/necromancers-are-overperforming#latest
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 1:01PM0 -
VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Trixterion wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »jan.denaanb16_ESO wrote: »A proc on crystal fragment is a lot more common over a longer fight than those lashes during that off balance window.
Exactly the dev goal if I read it correct. They want you to be able to push damage and sustain it during that brief window. Off balance has a pretty good cooldown.
7 lashes compared to crystal frag proc for example? How would those compare to each other.
Are mainly targeting pvp in declaring the 7 lashes OP? I cld see that the amount of healing you get during that is a lot. Although a lot of ppl will just dodge the first cpl of lashes?!
Giving you no dmg, no heals
How many of those 7 lashes in the ob window are expected to actually hit. Never 7 I assume
Power Lash heals you no matter if you hit the target or not.
May I ask you a question: are you a MagDK main in pvp or pve?
he is mag dk main in forum
I'm a balanced game main on the forums.
I dont see a thread you recommend a nerf to necro or to opplar tho? [snip] If they are not nerfing down the other ones at least they can buff underperforming classes to their level.
It appears he is an advocate for magblades as only posts I’ve found him talking about buffing a class are magblades.
maybe you should read the initial post completely
[snip]
I’ll flat say I’m a dk main but I’m not asking for anything on another class to be nerfed even if it could be overpowered
So you're saying you don't care about balance in the slightest?
If something is overperforming it should be tuned down no matter if there's sympathy for a class or not.
After a very welcomed amount of buffs to DK there simply isn't much to ask for, the focus lies on those to be a) buffs and b) balanced and Power Lash not having a cooldown simply isn't balanced.
So if you care about balance, would you agree with me if i said ; okay lets put 1-2 sec cd on flame lash's heal BUT lets also nerf templar sweep heal and passive dmg and while we are at it lets nerf blightbones's dmg by roughly 30% to make it on par with skills like crystal weapons or even shalk (which it shouldve been from the start) , nerf spirit mender dmg reduction to 5% ?
Why would you put sweeps heal on the same level as the other skills you've listed??
With that logic you would have to nerf strife too.
Necromancer is a failed class that's held together by overperforming skills, the only way to balance it is to completely rework it and then change its identity to be the most volatile class in the game rather than the most tanky one.
Spirit guardian is overperforming and shouldn't give an unnamed buff but rather minor protection.
Not mentioning intensive mender is a fault because that morph is even more op.
The list of necro issues is long and there have been posts in the past which have highlighted that issue properly like this one:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580062/necromancers-are-overperforming#latest
Pretty obvious? A class spammable that heals?! Damage wise maybe not in the same ballpark.
But it's one that has no condition for that heal, nor a cooldown on that heal... Flame lash heal shares its cooldown with off balance as its currently proposed.
I'll say it again. I haven't been on pts and have not tested! But we can only discuss this if you state numbers and a decent comparison.
Again. I am willing to hear you out and let you state numbers or elaborate your case to tone down this first version of a flame lash buff. I see no numbers, only these so far ungrounded calls not to have dk get a powerfull buff.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2021 1:02PM3 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Idea how to make stamina morph:
unmorphed version: molten whip
morph 1: power lash
morph 2: new stamina whip
lava whip is probably only used for levelling up and for players that cant decide/dont have a skill point. Nobody would loose strength this way.PC EU1 -
Jhalan✭✭Idea how to make stamina morph:
unmorphed version: molten whip
morph 1: power lash
morph 2: new stamina whip
lava whip is probably only used for levelling up and for players that cant decide/dont have a skill point. Nobody would loose strength this way.
imo, reworking stone giant into an instant cast poison spammable is much better. Like a poison suprise attack that stuns on every third cast. That way you can get minor brut and take advantage of world in ruin. Also you will be able to swap fragmanted for green dragon blood and i think green dragon blood should scale off max hp like arctic. and then you buff or rework some draconic power passives like changing armor passive to give %2 dmg reduction for each draconic skill slotted or flat %5 mitigation. Wings need some work aswell. If buffs like these could happen stamdk would be much better instantly.2 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭Idea how to make stamina morph:
unmorphed version: molten whip
morph 1: power lash
morph 2: new stamina whip
lava whip is probably only used for levelling up and for players that cant decide/dont have a skill point. Nobody would loose strength this way.
imo, reworking stone giant into an instant cast poison spammable is much better. Like a poison suprise attack that stuns on every third cast. That way you can get minor brut and take advantage of world in ruin. Also you will be able to swap fragmanted for green dragon blood and i think green dragon blood should scale off max hp like arctic. and then you buff or rework some draconic power passives like changing armor passive to give %2 dmg reduction for each draconic skill slotted or flat %5 mitigation. Wings need some work aswell. If buffs like these could happen stamdk would be much better instantly.
Stuns on the third cast is bad because you have no proper control about it, either you want the stun immediately or you don't want it when it happens.
This just mean giving the enemy CC immunity in situations where you don't want them to have it and then missing out on the stun when you'd need it.
HP scaling heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Stamdk on PTS has already gotten way better than it is on live with changes to bash, Whip, battle roar and combustion.
1 -
Jhalan✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Idea how to make stamina morph:
unmorphed version: molten whip
morph 1: power lash
morph 2: new stamina whip
lava whip is probably only used for levelling up and for players that cant decide/dont have a skill point. Nobody would loose strength this way.
imo, reworking stone giant into an instant cast poison spammable is much better. Like a poison suprise attack that stuns on every third cast. That way you can get minor brut and take advantage of world in ruin. Also you will be able to swap fragmanted for green dragon blood and i think green dragon blood should scale off max hp like arctic. and then you buff or rework some draconic power passives like changing armor passive to give %2 dmg reduction for each draconic skill slotted or flat %5 mitigation. Wings need some work aswell. If buffs like these could happen stamdk would be much better instantly.
Stuns on the third cast is bad because you have no proper control about it, either you want the stun immediately or you don't want it when it happens.
This just mean giving the enemy CC immunity in situations where you don't want them to have it and then missing out on the stun when you'd need it.
HP scaling heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Stamdk on PTS has already gotten way better than it is on live with changes to bash, Whip, battle roar and combustion.
Not enough tho. Testing it my self and it is still not even close to a stamden.3 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »health based heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Absolutly not
Pve tank should not loose these tool only because some pvper cant deal with tank
1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I surely thought the elephant in the room was Leap bugging out, notably in IC.VarisVaris wrote: »the elephant in the room3 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »health based heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Absolutly not
Pve tank should not loose these tool only because some pvper cant deal with tank
No, there are ways of giving tanks survivability without hurting PvP, the current iteration of Green Dragon Blood is one potential solution.
Max Hp based heals aren't tho1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »health based heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Absolutly not
Pve tank should not loose these tool only because some pvper cant deal with tank
No, there are ways of giving tanks survivability without hurting PvP, the current iteration of Green Dragon Blood is one potential solution.
Max Hp based heals aren't tho
As someone who plays a vampire and DK I hope nobody is forced to suffer from using a missing health scaling heal. They're absolutely horrible in most situations, especially Vampiric Drain where they decided to make that missing health scaling heal channeled. If they didn't get clipped by Battle Spirit that'd be one thing but these missing health scaling heals are.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »health based heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Absolutly not
Pve tank should not loose these tool only because some pvper cant deal with tank
No, there are ways of giving tanks survivability without hurting PvP, the current iteration of Green Dragon Blood is one potential solution.
Max Hp based heals aren't tho
And they are way to balance pvp without hurting pve0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭StamDk gets a ''massive buff'' but its also... nerfed? What even is that World in Ruins change? And whats with that joke about stam whip? Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Ugh. Allright, honestly for many years I have wondered if the stamDK's state was out of pure developer bias or sheer incompetence but now, I finally have the answer to my questions. That WiR change confirms it, I have not played this game for YEARS and I can do your job better than you. That is honestly hilarious.
0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »StamDk gets a ''massive buff'' but its also... nerfed? What even is that World in Ruins change? And whats with that joke about stam whip? Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Ugh. Allright, honestly for many years I have wondered if the stamDK's state was out of pure developer bias or sheer incompetence but now, I finally have the answer to my questions. That WiR change confirms it, I have not played this game for YEARS and I can do your job better than you. That is honestly hilarious.
Actually from tests and feedback I’ve heard and seen whip may be an ok skill to place on dk as this will be a sustain buff for stam dk2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »StamDk gets a ''massive buff'' but its also... nerfed? What even is that World in Ruins change? And whats with that joke about stam whip? Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Ugh. Allright, honestly for many years I have wondered if the stamDK's state was out of pure developer bias or sheer incompetence but now, I finally have the answer to my questions. That WiR change confirms it, I have not played this game for YEARS and I can do your job better than you. That is honestly hilarious.
Actually from tests and feedback I’ve heard and seen whip may be an ok skill to place on dk as this will be a sustain buff for stam dk
I don't see what kind of mental gymnastic can reach that conclusion, but I assume its very likely some sort of PvE DD build takes makes use of no other magicka skill. Or is it yet another hybrid DK attemp that goes out of its way to have a large max magicka pool+ magicka regen, gimping actual stamina abilities and stamina regen?Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 30, 2021 7:57AM0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »StamDk gets a ''massive buff'' but its also... nerfed? What even is that World in Ruins change? And whats with that joke about stam whip? Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Ugh. Allright, honestly for many years I have wondered if the stamDK's state was out of pure developer bias or sheer incompetence but now, I finally have the answer to my questions. That WiR change confirms it, I have not played this game for YEARS and I can do your job better than you. That is honestly hilarious.
Actually from tests and feedback I’ve heard and seen whip may be an ok skill to place on dk as this will be a sustain buff for stam dk
I don't see what kind of mental gymnastic can reach that conclusion, but I assume its very likely some sort of PvE DD build takes makes use of no other magicka skill. Or is it yet another hybrid DK attemp that goes out of its way to have a large max magicka pool+ magicka regen, gimping actual stamina abilities and stamina regen?
No gymnastics even of the mental kind needed with minimal investment I’m sitting at 32k stam and a decent size mag pool at 20k with other changes to dk sustain it isn’t a far stretch to sustain my mag pool and I’m coming at this from being a tank main who generally sustains a smaller resource pool on Both resources1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.
And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.
Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.
As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.Edited by Ragnarock41 on October 1, 2021 1:43AM2 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »health based heals should be thrown out of the game as they promote tank meta or are so weak that you never want to slot them anyway.
Absolutly not
Pve tank should not loose these tool only because some pvper cant deal with tank
pve tank shouldn't heal himself in a first place3 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.
And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.
Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.
As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.
There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.
And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.
Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.
As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.
There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.
Right, thats my bad. I did not pay much attention to second race rework since it was a lot less interesting. Honestly this whole hybrid push seems a lot more helpful to permablock mag/tank DKs than it will be for stamDks, since there is value in big flat stamina returns for magicka based builds that want block, but the same value is simply not there for when you're trying to sustain a magicka spammable, on a stamina build, while also sustaining your magicka on your spiked armor, cauterize and fragmented shield.
Speaking of which Frag shield has the biggest toll on staminaDk's magicka economy, as its an ability that sucks up a massive amount of magicka and in return gives you passives that makes you a stamDK. If that thing costed 3k a pop, that would completely change the math, but at 4050 magicka every 5 or so seconds, you require 16200 magicka just to keep major mending up for 20 seconds. It also doesn't help that the ability itself is extremely barebones outside of major mending.
Normally this is okay because ''haha I don't have a better magicka dump anyways'', but with the hybrid push this flaw in class design is even more apparent. How am I to be hybridized when 3 of my class defining passives are tied to a very expensive and absolutely useless magicka dump?
This is important keynote because if running magicka whip means you risk running out of major mending at a critical moment, you are better off with uppercut. Unless you get enough value off of flame lash to make up for the lack of major mending, which I doubt, unless I see it function.Edited by Ragnarock41 on October 2, 2021 2:02AM0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.
And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.
Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.
As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.
There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.
Right, thats my bad. I did not pay much attention to second race rework since it was a lot less interesting. Honestly this whole hybrid push seems a lot more helpful to permablock mag/tank DKs than it will be for stamDks, since there is value in big flat stamina returns for magicka based builds that want block, but the same value is simply not there for when you're trying to sustain a magicka spammable, on a stamina build, while also sustaining your magicka on your spiked armor, cauterize and fragmented shield.
Speaking of which Frag shield has the biggest toll on staminaDk's magicka economy, as its an ability that sucks up a massive amount of magicka and in return gives you passives that makes you a stamDK. If that thing costed 3k a pop, that would completely change the math, but at 4050 magicka every 5 or so seconds, you require 16200 magicka just to keep major mending up for 20 seconds. It also doesn't help that the ability itself is extremely barebones outside of major mending.
Normally this is okay because ''haha I don't have a better magicka dump anyways'', but with the hybrid push this flaw in class design is even more apparent. How am I to be hybridized when 3 of my class defining passives are tied to a very expensive and absolutely useless magicka dump?
This is important keynote because if running magicka whip means you risk running out of major mending at a critical moment, you are better off with uppercut. Unless you get enough value off of flame lash to make up for the lack of major mending, which I doubt, unless I see it function.
Only issue sounds like the major mending but well keep in mind flame lash has a heal attached to it with a reduced cost.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.
And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.
Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.
As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.
There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.
Right, thats my bad. I did not pay much attention to second race rework since it was a lot less interesting. Honestly this whole hybrid push seems a lot more helpful to permablock mag/tank DKs than it will be for stamDks, since there is value in big flat stamina returns for magicka based builds that want block, but the same value is simply not there for when you're trying to sustain a magicka spammable, on a stamina build, while also sustaining your magicka on your spiked armor, cauterize and fragmented shield.
Speaking of which Frag shield has the biggest toll on staminaDk's magicka economy, as its an ability that sucks up a massive amount of magicka and in return gives you passives that makes you a stamDK. If that thing costed 3k a pop, that would completely change the math, but at 4050 magicka every 5 or so seconds, you require 16200 magicka just to keep major mending up for 20 seconds. It also doesn't help that the ability itself is extremely barebones outside of major mending.
Normally this is okay because ''haha I don't have a better magicka dump anyways'', but with the hybrid push this flaw in class design is even more apparent. How am I to be hybridized when 3 of my class defining passives are tied to a very expensive and absolutely useless magicka dump?
This is important keynote because if running magicka whip means you risk running out of major mending at a critical moment, you are better off with uppercut. Unless you get enough value off of flame lash to make up for the lack of major mending, which I doubt, unless I see it function.
Only issue sounds like the major mending but well keep in mind flame lash has a heal attached to it with a reduced cost.
Its a really big stretch to assume that heal will make up for losing mending on all of your other heals but for PvE DDs I see the value. There is potential to blockcast it and create a win condition which would not be a thing if it costed stamina in the first place, but that concern is ALWAYS there now that the hybrid thing is getting pushed by the developers.
The real question here is, will whip, without the engulfing flames debuff, do enough damage to force your opponent into turtling instead of hitting you hard? So if my concerns here sounds unneccessary allow me as I do my very best to explain it to you why keeping mending up is critical for stamDks.
So basically, unlike other DK specs, what makes stamDK tanky is the major mending which buffs your HoTs such as vigor. This means to reach the maximum ''tankyness'', you will want to treat vigor and fragmented shield more like a resistance buff you need to have up than just a heal. Its not there to heal you, its there to prevent you from feeling the need for an emergency heal.
You want your HoTs and mending to be up all the time so that when your opponent inevitably decides to try and burst you down, you'll have the first few ticks of that buffed up HoT absorbing a lot of the damage, making it difficult for your opponent to get you down to execute range. HoT effects can effectively be thought of like your opponent having more HP than they have, and this effect increases more and more as time-to-kill increases.
Good stamDKs will refresh their hots and mending BEFORE they take a big hit, not after. This is stamDK's win condition for that ''war of attrition''. Its because they have no other choice.Edited by Ragnarock41 on October 4, 2021 1:59AM1 -
Bl4ckR3alm93✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Do they honestly think anyone will actually slot in a magicka spammable as a stamina setup?
Because damage type will not matter. pen, wep/spell dmg, crit, all hybrid.
Figure 6-7K damage, 30K stam, 20+ K mag, and 2K mag/stam regen from burning/poisoned status procs. Whip will do plenty of damage, heal and won't be a problem being sustained on stam build.
DK will do it best, but get ready for magcros using stam blastbones for defile. Stamcros doing harmony builds. Stamsorcs with Mages Wrath and Haunting Curse.
And why should I believe you? You don't have a functional build to show me and you have nothing concrete other than baseless ''theorycrafting.'' Where is that 2k stam/mag regen coming from? Combustion? Thats rich. How do you plan to achieve reliable %100 uptime on it? How do you get reliable burning/poisoned procs on targets that have native immunity or purge/cloak so you are denied? StaminaDk already has a massive magicka upkeep, for every 20 seconds you will already easily eat 1k magicka per second. And thats assuming you're not spamming major mending like your life depends on it, because it does.
Unless they completely trashed the old system of how damage and heals are calculated, your build scales from both your max damage and your max resources. As for stamina or magicka regen, stacking one to be really high or stacking cost reduction for one of them is always going to be more efficient than going balanced and hybrid.
As for combustion, once again it never ever had a %100 upkeep under most situations to begin with so what makes you think its instant 2K sustain? Thats quite literally the best case scenario, which you base your imaginary build on.
There is no immunity against status effects anymore.
In CP Fire Glyphs and Charged gives decent but not perfect sustain, Molten has worse sustain than Power Lash but neither is perfect.
Charged was also buffed to 480% so its gonna be nice on Stam and Mag DK's. They should change Stone Giant honestly. I wouldn't mind a poison version instead of a physical version0