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How to fix the dungeon rush issue
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BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭BejaProphet wrote: »@Kessra im not suggesting to remove the current normal dungeon run. I’m suggesting adding a third option.
Random veteran
Random normal
Random no cp normal
It makes more sense to make it:- Random Normal Base
- Random Veteran Base
- Random Normal DLC
- Random Veteran DLC
But then people running Veteran DLC dungeon queues will wonder why about even LESS players / longer queue times. lol
Perhaps your suggestion should be implemented but it would do nothing to address the issue this thread is talking about.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You are on the right track. The way to "fix it" is vet Rewards shouldn't be the same as Normal rewards when it comes to Transmute stones.
If Vet was like say 30 for a random and 10 for normal but you can only do one. People would queue for Vet. You're still going to turn into rushing though. Most groups can just pull boss to boss on every Vet even most DLC dungeons at this point.1 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭I've been doing vet randoms for 3 months by now and only 1 run failed due to double fake DD in DLC dungeon.
There was one run where Bastian tanked vet WGT. Today was a run where Bastian tanked spindleclutch 2 hard mode.
If we had a companion DD with AOE skills then fake DD problem would be partially solved.0 -
Next patch the whole group will be auto ported to the boss[/quote]
Yes this will stop peeps from missing bosses which is a good thing, but it doesn’t solve the speed runner problem imo as we’re all gonna be forced to do the dungeon at the pace of the fastest personGM Waking Dreams | PC NA2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Another option, instead of trying to bribe people to run Vet, is to make a "stop here to gather your party" spot before each boss fight. You can't start the boss fight til everyone is in the circle. (I think Neverwinter does this). That'll keep people from blasting through without the rest of their group.
(well, or at least only let them blast through each set of trash between bosses)
Next patch the whole group will be auto ported to the boss
you do realize that this change will make dungeon rushing easier right? the rushers will just run to the farthest boss they can get to, or the first one and tag it, then everyone ports in. which also means it will be a native forced bypass of any non boss quest markers.
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LadySinflower✭✭✭✭✭I know for a fact that there are fairly high CP players who don't know what they're doing in vet dungeons because I'm one of them. Right now I'm at approx. CP 1200. I prefer to play solo and was always unsure that I'd be able to pull my weight (as a DPS) in group activities, so I didn't queue for dungeons at all while leveling up. Then they decided that the main method for PVE players to get transmute crystals was through the random daily dungeon. I don't like PvP so if I want crystals I have to queue up. So many rushers have meant that I didn't learn anything in random normals except "run run run run burn it down run run run run burn it down and run some more. " So I don't queue for vet anything unless I'm with a group of friends. During those times, someone explains mechanics and I hold my own, but it may be six months or more before I run that dungeon again on vet. So I do not remember mechanics. But yes, you folks are correct that a lot of players are out there who have no clue what to do unless mechanics are explained. In PUGs you don't get a lot of people with headsets to talk or listen, and everyone is too busy running to let someone type out anything. It's too bad that so many of them are still queuing for those difficult instances and don't care who they inconvenience.3 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not sure there is a "fix" for this and I do truly feel bad for people running normals where they are trying to learn things or do the story. The difficultly gap between the end game content and entry is just so high now.
I think the smart loot will help (less people farming just for gear) but really what should happen imo is that normals should be re-tuned for today's ESO, so that they are a tiny bit challenging.
I have felt that the issue is worse lately, such that even I feel tempted to rush through dungeons I have seen a million times. I believe this issue is related to something else that's been raised in another thread, which is the plethora of daily activities that have been shoved into the game. People are just more in a hurry than they were when the game launched, because now they also want/need to... do writs, logins for hirelings, endeavors, their random daily dungeon, etc... but most of us only have the same time left to dedicate to the game. So, people rush.0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »MrBrownstone wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Another option, instead of trying to bribe people to run Vet, is to make a "stop here to gather your party" spot before each boss fight. You can't start the boss fight til everyone is in the circle. (I think Neverwinter does this). That'll keep people from blasting through without the rest of their group.
(well, or at least only let them blast through each set of trash between bosses)
Next patch the whole group will be auto ported to the boss
you do realize that this change will make dungeon rushing easier right? the rushers will just run to the farthest boss they can get to, or the first one and tag it, then everyone ports in. which also means it will be a native forced bypass of any non boss quest markers.
Except most bosses, in DLC anyway are in front of locked doors you can't get through till you beat the boss. So the farthest you can go would be the first one
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm not sure there is a "fix" for this and I do truly feel bad for people running normals where they are trying to learn things or do the story. The difficultly gap between the end game content and entry is just so high now.
I think the smart loot will help (less people farming just for gear) but really what should happen imo is that normals should be re-tuned for today's ESO, so that they are a tiny bit challenging.
I have felt that the issue is worse lately, such that even I feel tempted to rush through dungeons I have seen a million times. I believe this issue is related to something else that's been raised in another thread, which is the plethora of daily activities that have been shoved into the game. People are just more in a hurry than they were when the game launched, because now they also want/need to... do writs, logins for hirelings, endeavors, their random daily dungeon, etc... but most of us only have the same time left to dedicate to the game. So, people rush.
How will smart loot make it better? If anything that will make it worse. People will run as many dungeons till have their full sets. Then there will be less people in the queues making them all take longer. I don't even get instant queues as it is on a tank anymore.0 -
Syrpynt✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »
It makes more sense to make it:- Random Normal Base
- Random Veteran Base
- Random Normal DLC
- Random Veteran DLC
But then people running Veteran DLC dungeon queues will wonder why about even LESS players / longer queue times. lol
Perhaps your suggestion should be implemented but it would do nothing to address the issue this thread is talking about.
I disagree, because it will improve it. If we can't completely fix it, then we can at least improve the amount of rushing players.
Random Normal Base: We know this will be the biggest culprit of having rushers.
Random Veteran Base: Less rushers here, but still gonna be some Veteran players that rush regardless.
Random Normal DLC: Ok, this is where it's interesting, you're going to get less players dropping at the very start because they "didn't want to do a long-ass DLC dungeon" when they only have 30 minutes before going to bed, etc. More players who actually want to do DLC normals will be grouped up! Hooray!
Random Veteran DLC: Players here should know what they're doing at this point with mechanics, or at least have played normal mode a few times and researched the additional mechanics.
Lastly, the final fix I'd do instead of what is happening this patch:
Do what they did in Arx Corinium for all bosses = Everyone needs to be within the bounds or the boss resets.
Or give the players a 40 second countdown to port into the area similar to dungeon queue ready-checks.
40 seconds is enough to dump/unload trash gear on their vendor, listen to some quest dialogue, etc.
Anyway...0 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem of normal dungeons is that they collected lots of asocial players, who don't care about others and only want reward.
You have that in vet as well. If i go into vet and encounter players that dont care in bringing propper gear or learn and expect a free cary run they are as much asocial as the run through high tier guys on normal.Starlight_Knight wrote: »People, mostly idiots just speed run though the rdm normal ones for the exp and crystals, thats all they want, they dont care about new players who might be doing the quest etc and it certainly should be addressed.
We might have alot less issues in dungeons if players would learn to communicate. Many players get zero communication out to the group if they need the quest or anything else specific. If someone tells me they need a quest or a certain achievment ill help them as long as it doesnt conflict with my goal. If they say nothing i will do nothing, its not my job to guess.
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Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »A lot of players are complaining because vets queue for normal and rush the dungeon, ruining the experience. Happened to me when I was a new player back in the day so I always queue for vet now.
But most people won't queue for vet. Actually I suspect that I'm the only person in the game who queues for vet when it comes to the daily run. I do that because I enjoy the dungeons and didn't pay for them just to get some fast crystals.
If the veteran rewards were better, veteran players would queue for veteran. The "better rewards" issue was adressed before, however it was for DLC dungeons (I agree).
Just make it so veteran daily dungeon rewards 15 crystals instead of 10 and you can't do both. This way casuals will play normal with casuals and veterans will play veteran with veterans. I'd love to see this happen because this would mean I would get into vet dungeons much faster, since other vets will stop playing on normal.
Why doesn't harder content give better rewards anyway?
Those are not veteran players tbh they’re just high leveled casuals. Most of them just fail big time in vet dungeons.
I would luv better rewards for vet dungeons but I still think you would end up with the same issue. The easiest solutions is to do the following....
•Tell everyone you’re doing the quest. Most players will be polite enough to help with that pace.
•Have at least one other friend for a good chance to kick them if they will not let you do the quest.
• Lastly join a friendly guild or start one for pve content including dungeons. You should hopefully find some friends or like minded people.
I still want the vet rewards though. 💃🏻Edited by Girl_Number8 on September 27, 2021 3:05PM1 -
ankeor✭✭✭✭✭You can't make a person who run the dungeon hundreds of times before that things slow.
You can't make a person who hasn't done the dungeon before rush thru also.
Best that can be done is having lobbies for finding group/group members.
Person crates a lobby.
Title example: "Group for Scalecaller Peak HM"
People join, discuss what is needed and stay in the group if they agree to do the dungeon together.
It can work for trials also.
Just group lead needs to create 4 or 12 people lobby based on what he/she wants to run.1 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dungeon running is only an issue when you do it for the first time on a character. In no other circumstance is a group sprinting through a dungeon a problem.
All of these solutions would wreck daily randoms and pledges. People complain about Stuga talking to them in a zone. How about being forced to wait for the NPCs in Selene's or Vaults of Madness to appear, then talk forever before you get to move on? Or being forced to listen to the dialogue, and complete the quest, and kill all the bosses on Fungal Grotto 1 for the 100th time? And how much do we love listening to Kinlord Rilis while being forced to kill side bosses? Sign me up.
The funny part is I would guess most of the players demanding we lower loot to combat dungeon running are the same people who complain there are not enough ways for players to earn transmute crystals.1 -
jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hapexamendios wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Another option, instead of trying to bribe people to run Vet, is to make a "stop here to gather your party" spot before each boss fight. You can't start the boss fight til everyone is in the circle. (I think Neverwinter does this). That'll keep people from blasting through without the rest of their group.
(well, or at least only let them blast through each set of trash between bosses)
All this does is put the group at the mercy of the slowest person rather than the fastest and that isn't any better imo.
But the slowest people WILL BE FASTER if the fast people actually stay back and help them kill things, rather than running past all the trash and leaving the slow players who can't outrun it to be forced to fight it, thus slowing them down even further.
Most dungeons, in fact, do go faster when the group stays together and kills things as they appear, than when some people run ahead leaving living monsters behind them for the rest of the group to fight.3 -
Eshkerigal✭✭✭Group finder. Like this one in WoW.
It would solve:
- rushing dungeons group
- fake tank/heal problem
- low lvl in random
- bugged dungeon finder for pledges
It should help with finding groups for trials, wolrd bosses, questing, achievement runs etc.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you have more than one queue wait times will become unbearable for DPS. That means more fake roles.
Porting group to bosses means players get credit for the boss but they miss out on the dungeon run. I'm also kind of curious how this works. Like Fungal if the group jumps in the water to swim to final boss could I pull them out of the water by going to next boss or is it just final boss that does this? Either way I think it creates more problems than it solves.
Fake roles tells us if vet content had better drops players not ready for vet content would be queuing for vet content anyway.
I would like to see a solo instance of each dungeon that gives you the story and the bosses are about the same as a dolman boss. No reward for finishing the dungeon but you do get the reward for finishing the storyline quest. I know this creates an instance and that takes resources so there would need to be a timer. Not so short to make them feel they have to rush but so they can't just roam around all day. Also no chests.
More than that I would like to see a change to the daily rewards. If you want the daily reward I think you should have to finish the dungeon. That means kill all mobs and all bosses. Even the archer that stands way in the back and lobs an arrow at you as you run by needs to die. You don't kill them all you don't get the reward. Those stupid plants that grab you if you get to close...no giving them a wide berth. You gotta pop em if you want the reward. Won't help with the players that are doing multiple runs for gear but it would slow down the players just after dailies on multiple characters.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Syrpynt✭✭✭If you have more than one queue wait times will become unbearable for DPS. That means more fake roles.
Porting group to bosses means players get credit for the boss but they miss out on the dungeon run. I'm also kind of curious how this works. Like Fungal if the group jumps in the water to swim to final boss could I pull them out of the water by going to next boss or is it just final boss that does this? Either way I think it creates more problems than it solves.
Fake roles tells us if vet content had better drops players not ready for vet content would be queuing for vet content anyway.
I would like to see a solo instance of each dungeon that gives you the story and the bosses are about the same as a dolman boss. No reward for finishing the dungeon but you do get the reward for finishing the storyline quest. I know this creates an instance and that takes resources so there would need to be a timer. Not so short to make them feel they have to rush but so they can't just roam around all day. Also no chests.
More than that I would like to see a change to the daily rewards. If you want the daily reward I think you should have to finish the dungeon. That means kill all mobs and all bosses. Even the archer that stands way in the back and lobs an arrow at you as you run by needs to die. You don't kill them all you don't get the reward. Those stupid plants that grab you if you get to close...no giving them a wide berth. You gotta pop em if you want the reward. Won't help with the players that are doing multiple runs for gear but it would slow down the players just after dailies on multiple characters.
I'd like a solo version, but as you said: Server resources.
Could be possible if these dungeons were on the client side of things. Then there'd be no reason to rush others since it's players who are just grinding/farming alone.
The downside is that it doesn't prevent players from subconsciously sprinting through group versions of dungeons because they've done it a million times before and know the shortest route with least mobs, etc. Even if they purposefully queue for a "group version" of the same dungeon.
Medium armor wearers juss "gotta go fast." lol
EDIT: lightening the mood a little.Edited by Syrpynt on September 27, 2021 8:30PM0
