"Ancient Daedric motif... can be excavated as Antiquities" PLEASE STOP WITH THIS!

cmetzger93 · September 2021

Katinas wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno We need someone from the DEV Team to confirm this. NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY liked the idea of motifs coming from an antiquity lead which itself comes from a treasure map which itself comes from one of dozens of possible treasure map variations. The drop rate when you add all of this is absolutely terrible and makes these motifs some of the worst grind and some of the most expensive item in the game.
Please, while we are still in PTS cycle simply abandon this idea and give us motifs that drop as motif pages, NOT as leads with multiple drop chances multiplied to a sub one percent chance.

Agree this is one of the reasons I stopped playing. They fix one problem with the RNG and add another even worse one

Peppo_Lives · September 2021

@ApoAlaia the 4th layer could have been mitigated IF zos would have removed the timer on leads, but instead they enforced the timer on every lead every time

as a codex collector, the ancestral motifs are a frustrating gold sink (1,2M on maps for ancestral reach, 12M+ on ancestral akaviri)... imho the map drop logic should be tweaked, and drop rates on some lead should be increased

Serenez · September 2021

I personally do not mind the motifs coming from Antiquities as it gives an extra gameplay feature to gathering Motifs. I do think however that adding additional sources possibly to obtaining the treasure map would be helpful.

At the moment you can obtain the treasure maps in the guild traders, and when I was purchasing a few, my RNG of actually getting the lead once I had the treasure map was not that bad. I would say 1 out of every 3 maps I got a lead in Blackwood. This may not reflect other's experience. If the Blackwood Treasure maps would also drop in the new DLC Zone upcoming, I think that would be helpful as it would give an additional source.

If the intent is to keep these Motifs more challenging to obtain to maintain the value, then possibly just tweaking the available sources. As other's suggest by having MIrri and her perk assisting in the RNG process, combined with the relative CP points, possibly adding these maps to her usefulness when opening treasure chests in the Blackwood/New DLC zone, in addition to possibly adding to WB drops in Blackwood, Public Dungeon Bosses, Deadland Portals as this would keep the current Chapter populated while other's go off to explore the new zone. I might even suggest adding these to W. Skyrim WB and Harrowstorms to keep these areas populated as well to ensure enough Veterans are around to assist in new players exploring this zone. The Greymoor Caverns are pretty dead whenever I visit them and very rarely do I see people engaging in these Harrowstorms. Others will likely disagree with me on this however as the Greymoor Chapter is required to dig them up, I think this would assist in the RNG and give more sources to obtain the Treasure Maps for this lead.

Parasaurolophus · September 2021

Seriously, I do not see anything wrong with the fact that the game has rare cosmetics that are not obtained by combat means. What's wrong? Yes, it's difficult, expensive. But this is very valuable.

robwolf666 · September 2021

SammyKhajit wrote: »

This one hates antiquities.

That one is losing out on a great source of gold income.

Serenez · September 2021

I know a few people in the guilds I belong to that quite enjoy digging up these Antiquity Motifs and use this as the primary source of gold per week in sales of the motifs to the players that do not have access or are simply not wanting to dig them up due to lack of time, bad RNG or do not like Antiquities. There are options to buy these Motifs in this manner rather than fighting with the RNG.

There is quite a good value and gold return for them in buying these Treasure Maps in the guild traders, getting the lead and digging up the Motif and selling them for huge profit margins. This keeps Antiquities relevant for those that have already dug up every furniture piece or Mythic, and helps maintains that engagement for those that enjoy them.

tomfant · September 2021

Serenez wrote: »

I personally do not mind the motifs coming from Antiquities as it gives an extra gameplay feature to gathering Motifs. I do think however that adding additional sources possibly to obtaining the treasure map would be helpful.

Exactly what I am thinking. Nerf lead RNG.

warsteheineub17_ESO · September 2021

Lintashi wrote: »

Ugh, antiquity motif again. When they introduced this way of getting motifs with Markarth, there were many threads with complains about scarcity of maps and leads. So, what should be done, when people complain about something? Thats right, do it again in Blackwood. People complained again, so now we get it again same way...

They introduced these source of motifs when they released antiquities.
It was quite a while but I think there were 3 motifs (orc ancestral, elves ancestral, whatever) and the leads would drop off of treasure maps from most non-dlc zones.
Each zone had assigned two different motifs for a style, like daggers and belt for example and when a lead dropped from a treasure map, you would get both leads. I remember collecting those motifs and that wasn't bad at all.

I think I bought around 10, 15 treasure maps for each pair of motifs and that was it. I completed all the styles and sold the duplicates.
But that got nerfed badly. Not only the drop rate , but also you only get one lead (not the two for that zone ) for those motifs

But the motif from Markath, well, screw that. I think I got like 2 of those pages and I couldn't care beyond that. If they are doing the same thing with a Blackwood motif, I won't even try

B0SSzombie · September 2021

As much as I hate to say it, I wish they'd at least offer the Motif in the Crown Store, or even a full set of Leads you could buy so you can at least get the Journal Entries.

Folkb · September 2021

Yeah the drop rate on those is garbo.

Froil · September 2021

It's not that the motifs coming from scrying and the antiquities system is bad, it's just the only way to get the leads come from treasure maps, which you cannot farm for specific zone treasure maps, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, hell I even made a thread on it, MAKE ANTIQUITY MOTIF LEADS COME FROM REGULAR CHESTS TOO, LIKE THOSE IN THE OVERWORLD.

Ch3mical_92 · September 2021

This system totally needs an overhaul. Ancient Reachmen was bad already, but ancient Akaviri feels like a completely new level of grind.

I dumped over 13M gold into treasure maps and I'm still missing two codex entries with no end in sight. It's just a sooo demotivating practice to collect all entries, truly one of the most broken activities up to date. I'm paying more gold for a single(!) codex entry than for an aeteric cipher. I could've bought literally every purple ayleid furnishing plan for this money and there is still room to dump another 2-5 Millions down the drain for the last two entries.

And once you're done the next zone awaits you with even more of those rng-monstrosities. I cant say how tired I am of farming those ancient leads

Edit: spelling

Luke_Flamesword · September 2021

Most funny thing is that originally leads supposed to drop from excavating other antiiqities in zone and that probably should be main source of them - in practise it means much, much less grinding. But for some reason it don't work so they just ignore it and leave as it is - and it is terrible

It's the same thing like companions visuals - they announced on streams that they will implement special system like with quest npc, so we supposed don't have attack of the clones. And for some reason there is not this system and they don't said a word about it half year later.

It looks like they just leave some thing broken and move on like nothing happened...

six2fall · September 2021

Only way this should be done is if the leads are something like the tapestry with set locations you just need to find them in the wild. Having rng ontop of rng ontop of rng is asinine

Soul_Soliloquy · September 2021

These motifs are a nightmare to collect! Please either stop introducing more of them or make it so the leads have a chance to drop from any chest, not just treasure maps 🙏

LadyLethalla · September 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have 2 Ancestral Reach pages so far. After how many months? Never got one for Ancestral Akaviri or whatever it is.

I agree, this is crazy. I get a lot of treasure maps but I think only 4 or 5 of the Reach ones so far. It is highly disappointing to finally get a Reach treasure map and dig it up and get no lead, though.

I got two Ancestral Reach on console, and as of last night, three Ancestral Reach on PC.

SerraKBella · September 2021

Froil wrote: »

It's not that the motifs coming from scrying and the antiquities system is bad, it's just the only way to get the leads come from treasure maps, which you cannot farm for specific zone treasure maps, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, hell I even made a thread on it, MAKE ANTIQUITY MOTIF LEADS COME FROM REGULAR CHESTS TOO, LIKE THOSE IN THE OVERWORLD.

I have actively tried to farm treasure maps for these very difficult leads and of all the maps I have gotten only a few are ever for the new zones. Then you take into account the 1/14 chance that it is a lead you still need (if you get a lead at all) and it makes this so impossible. (The first Ancestral motifs only had a 1/4 Khenarthi or 1/2 for the rest of the zones chance of getting the right one).

I spend hours trying to get treasure maps anyway I can and my RNG is just awful in this. I do have all the Ancestral Reach motifs (finally, had to buy some), but I have only been able to get 2 of the Ancestral Akaviri ones so far. And that was helped because Mirri's quest gives you a Blackreach map (but 2 leads out of about 12 maps is really discouraging).

ZOS please provide a way to farm zone specific treasure maps or have these leads come from all treasure chest in zone area or have the lead drop from doing antiquities in that specific zone. Please

MasterSpatula · September 2021

In my last ten-ish treasure maps for The Reach, Western Skyrim, or either Blackreach zone, I've received exactly zero Ancient Reach leads. I got a bit lucky at first, but I've been sitting at 5/14 for literally months now.

In all of the several treasure maps I've gotten from Blackwood, I've never gotten even a single Ancient Akaviri lead.

Maps aren't super rare, but they are uncommon. But on top of that, when you do get a map, the maps you need for these leads are in competition with every other map in the game, making the necessary maps genuinely rare. Then when you dig up the chest, actually getting a lead is excessively rare. Then, assuming you do get a lead, you still have to roll one more time to see which of the 14 possible pages you got, so good luck on ever finishing your Codex.

With no hyperbole, with no exaggeration, with complete sincerity, I can that there is one, exactly one, reason for an implementation like this ever to have been designed: As an ethical test to your team. You present your team with the idea for how Ancestral Reach will be given out. Anyone on your team who threatens to quit rather than implement such a system gets to keep their job. Anyone else gets shown the door..

In all the multitudinous infinity of the universe, that's the sole excusable reason for coming up with an idea like this one. Actually implementing this design in incomprehensible. Yet ZOS are about to take this incomprehensible action thrice!

I'm perplexed. I'm boggled. I'm dumbfounded. I cannot conceive of a reality where you could find one person, even one, just one, to actually go through with this. Yet here we are, on the third occasion. It's shameful.

K9002 · September 2021

Something needs to be changed. Either maps should be guaranteed to drop one random motif lead or zones should have weighted treasure map loot table. It's not impossible and there's more than one precedent for it. Update 26 (Greymoor) implemented this:

Moderately reduced the chance of acquiring paintings from treasure chests. However, when acquiring a painting from a treasure chest in an area that has its own paintings, you now always get a painting specific to that area.This makes it much easier to acquire region-specific paintings, even with the overall reduction in the drop rate of paintings.

The other thing is how zones and dungeons which feature a racial/cultural furniture style have a higher chance to drop their native furnishing plans, but I don't know if that was a thing from the moment housing was added to the game.

Edit: For the record, I have 8 or 9 Ancestral Reach codex entries and not a single Akaviri yet.

Zephiran23 · September 2021

One of the justifications for introducing the new curated drop system for set items was player frustration at the way RNG could work against them. The way ancestral motifs work is just as bad in terms of chances of obtaining the item you are hoping to find. Even if you are lucky enough to dig up a lead for the motif you are trying to uncover, there's no guarantee it won't be one of those you've already found.

I realise this can act a a gold sink via auctioning off maps or duplicates, but I don't feel that's a good justification for maintaining the system in it's current form.

DMuehlhausen · September 2021

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Aren't Daedra immortal and timeless, why would anything of theirs be "Ancient"

Just cause something is immortal doesn't mean something can't be ancient. Ancient measures time, not if it's still used or not.

huntgod_ESO · September 2021

Ch3mical_92 wrote: »

This system totally needs an overhaul. Ancient Reachmen was bad already, but ancient Akaviri feels like a completely new level of grind.

I dumped over 13M gold into treasure maps and I'm still missing two codex entries with no end in sight. It's just a sooo demotivating practice to collect all entries, truly one of the most broken activities up to date. I'm paying more gold for a single(!) codex entry than for an aeteric cipher. I could've bought literally every purple ayleid furnishing plan for this money and there is still room to dump another 2-5 Millions down the drain for the last two entries.

And once you're done the next zone awaits you with even more of those rng-monstrosities. I cant say how tired I am of farming those ancient leads

Edit: spelling

So I appreciate the dedication but couldn't you have bought all the pieces for around six million gold?

That said, this sucks.

Serenez · September 2021

Are people using Mirri or adjusting their CP points and slotting the Treasure Hunter CP prior to digging them up? This could be the issue with not getting the lead. It isn't guaranteed but once I altered my CP points and put 50 points into Treasure Hutner and slotted it and had Mirri accompany me, my odds of getting the lead increased. I chose to sell the Motifs I got from the Reach and Blackwood but sold quite a few.

Treasure Hunting isn't as simple as it used to be and needs all of these extra boosts to help with the RNG factor, otherwise putting 50 points into a CP slottable would be rendered useless. Once the Armory arrives it will help those that are not using add ons to quickly swap out a build for when you go off adventuring to swap out your CP.

I think the issue is more sourcing the maps for people and I put some suggestions above in one of my posts to give other sources. The maps are always available to purchase in the guild traders as many are going out and finding them. The Motifs are also available in the guild traders as people are digging them up.

If after slotting the CP Treasure Hunter and dragging Mirri along and you are still having terrible odds then it is quite possible there is a bug with the Treasure Hunter CP and it could be posted in the bug forum or in game.

spartaxoxo · September 2021

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

Ch3mical_92 wrote: »

This system totally needs an overhaul. Ancient Reachmen was bad already, but ancient Akaviri feels like a completely new level of grind.

I dumped over 13M gold into treasure maps and I'm still missing two codex entries with no end in sight. It's just a sooo demotivating practice to collect all entries, truly one of the most broken activities up to date. I'm paying more gold for a single(!) codex entry than for an aeteric cipher. I could've bought literally every purple ayleid furnishing plan for this money and there is still room to dump another 2-5 Millions down the drain for the last two entries.

And once you're done the next zone awaits you with even more of those rng-monstrosities. I cant say how tired I am of farming those ancient leads

Edit: spelling

So I appreciate the dedication but couldn't you have bought all the pieces for around six million gold?

That said, this sucks.

No. You don't get the Codex that way, which is why they said they are buying the maps.

Azariiel_Lunataris · September 2021

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Seriously, I do not see anything wrong with the fact that the game has rare cosmetics that are not obtained by combat means. What's wrong? Yes, it's difficult, expensive. But this is very valuable.

And it also promotes trading, something that is good to encourage. I am mostly a solo player, will never set foot in a Trial (just as many won't with PvP, antiquities etc) and I am glad there is something rare and achievable solo, even if I need to trade for it.

Nirntrotter · September 2021

Layers upon layers upon layers of RNG. Please stop.

Ch3mical_92 · September 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

So I appreciate the dedication but couldn't you have bought all the pieces for around six million gold?

That said, this sucks.

No. You don't get the Codex that way, which is why they said they are buying the maps.

Exactly this

I bought the missing two motifs to complete the stylebook, but I'm still missing the codex entries for those two leads. I'm a completionist and want to collect every collectible thing in this game including all codex-texts

Katinas · November 2021

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any word on this? Can we get a confirmation the development guys know that the sourcing of ancestral/ancient motifs is wrong and they are working on fixing it? It takes admitting first to work on a solution.

JJOtterBear · November 2021

lillybit wrote: »

whitecrow wrote: »

Daedra don't have ancestors.

Yeah but ancient doesn't really work either and there are other ancient motifs that have nothing to do with antiquities so there's no consistency. If they're changing it from ancestral they could've at least had it make sense.

all something has to do to be considered ancient is just be really really old. clearly the ancient daedric style was a style created and used a very long time ago. making it ancient.

Ancestral doesn't work because daedra are immortal and timeless, they don't have ancestors.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · November 2021

JJOtterBear wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

whitecrow wrote: »

Daedra don't have ancestors.

Yeah but ancient doesn't really work either and there are other ancient motifs that have nothing to do with antiquities so there's no consistency. If they're changing it from ancestral they could've at least had it make sense.

all something has to do to be considered ancient is just be really really old. clearly the ancient daedric style was a style created and used a very long time ago. making it ancient.

Ancestral doesn't work because daedra are immortal and timeless, they don't have ancestors.

They are also timeless, and time doesn't work the same way in Oblivion, so ancient doesn't work either.