pleximus wrote: »

The lag is the main issue.

It would also be great if ZOS brought 24-man groups back. They made for much more fun fights. And before anyone shouts about ZEEEERGS, remember that ESO pvp war is made to resemble middle-ages wars where you had actual ARMIES.

ummm have you not seen the zergs of 2-3 12 man groups running side by side

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

This, which is why I never understand why PVP'ers always complain about having to do PVE content. This is a PVE game within a PVE IP, catered to a PVE audience.

Quite frankly, I don't find PVP to be very good in this game. It's less about skill and more about gear setups. I do PVP on occasion because I am typically driven to PVP style gaming (online leagues in sports games so I'm playing humans instead of computer, first person shooter games, even MMO PVP), but I find I can't do it much beyond about 30 minutes at a time, and maybe for only a week or so until I'm done with it for another 6 months. PVP in this game isn't very enjoyable to me, and so I stay out of it. The PVP that I do find some form of enjoyment from, is either 1. Cyrodiil, which is laggy to the point of frustration to try to play, or 2. Battlegrounds, which have now taken away all of the interesting modes and left us with only Deathmatch, which I couldn't care less about.

So I do think there is an aspect of "ZOS doesn't create enough PVP content so players don't play it", but the reason why there isn't enough PVP content is because this isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE first game, with some additional PVP content.

ESO was developed to be and advertised as a PvP game as endgame content. Just look at the box it came in. PvP is practically all it talks about. All the trailers in the beginning were PvP oriented. The PvE focus is a shift from the originally advertised focus.

It was not advertised that way.



^ This is just for Tamriel Unlimited, but I will give an example from the original release box when I get home. PVP absolutely was not the main focus of the advertising.

And, if the focus has shifted away from PVP to PVE, then that also is very telling.

The fact is, you can play this game and avoid PVP entirely and have a complete experience. You cannot play PVP entirely and avoid PVE entirely and have a complete experience. Even when PVP was the end-game, PVP could be avoided entirely. This is a PVE game first, PVP second.

Franchise408 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

This, which is why I never understand why PVP'ers always complain about having to do PVE content. This is a PVE game within a PVE IP, catered to a PVE audience.

Quite frankly, I don't find PVP to be very good in this game. It's less about skill and more about gear setups. I do PVP on occasion because I am typically driven to PVP style gaming (online leagues in sports games so I'm playing humans instead of computer, first person shooter games, even MMO PVP), but I find I can't do it much beyond about 30 minutes at a time, and maybe for only a week or so until I'm done with it for another 6 months. PVP in this game isn't very enjoyable to me, and so I stay out of it. The PVP that I do find some form of enjoyment from, is either 1. Cyrodiil, which is laggy to the point of frustration to try to play, or 2. Battlegrounds, which have now taken away all of the interesting modes and left us with only Deathmatch, which I couldn't care less about.

So I do think there is an aspect of "ZOS doesn't create enough PVP content so players don't play it", but the reason why there isn't enough PVP content is because this isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE first game, with some additional PVP content.

ESO was developed to be and advertised as a PvP game as endgame content. Just look at the box it came in. PvP is practically all it talks about. All the trailers in the beginning were PvP oriented. The PvE focus is a shift from the originally advertised focus.

It was not advertised that way.



^ This is just for Tamriel Unlimited, but I will give an example from the original release box when I get home. PVP absolutely was not the main focus of the advertising.

And, if the focus has shifted away from PVP to PVE, then that also is very telling.

The fact is, you can play this game and avoid PVP entirely and have a complete experience. You cannot play PVP entirely and avoid PVE entirely and have a complete experience. Even when PVP was the end-game, PVP could be avoided entirely. This is a PVE game first, PVP second.

Yes one ad says it all lol. I have been following this game since it was just an idea. It was marketed heavily towards PvPers and more so to DAoC players who were looking for a home. This is a fact.

AScarlato wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

This, which is why I never understand why PVP'ers always complain about having to do PVE content. This is a PVE game within a PVE IP, catered to a PVE audience.

Quite frankly, I don't find PVP to be very good in this game. It's less about skill and more about gear setups. I do PVP on occasion because I am typically driven to PVP style gaming (online leagues in sports games so I'm playing humans instead of computer, first person shooter games, even MMO PVP), but I find I can't do it much beyond about 30 minutes at a time, and maybe for only a week or so until I'm done with it for another 6 months. PVP in this game isn't very enjoyable to me, and so I stay out of it. The PVP that I do find some form of enjoyment from, is either 1. Cyrodiil, which is laggy to the point of frustration to try to play, or 2. Battlegrounds, which have now taken away all of the interesting modes and left us with only Deathmatch, which I couldn't care less about.

So I do think there is an aspect of "ZOS doesn't create enough PVP content so players don't play it", but the reason why there isn't enough PVP content is because this isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE first game, with some additional PVP content.

ESO was developed to be and advertised as a PvP game as endgame content. Just look at the box it came in. PvP is practically all it talks about. All the trailers in the beginning were PvP oriented. The PvE focus is a shift from the originally advertised focus.

It was not advertised that way.



^ This is just for Tamriel Unlimited, but I will give an example from the original release box when I get home. PVP absolutely was not the main focus of the advertising.

And, if the focus has shifted away from PVP to PVE, then that also is very telling.

The fact is, you can play this game and avoid PVP entirely and have a complete experience. You cannot play PVP entirely and avoid PVE entirely and have a complete experience. Even when PVP was the end-game, PVP could be avoided entirely. This is a PVE game first, PVP second.

Yes one ad says it all lol. I have been following this game since it was just an idea. It was marketed heavily towards PvPers and more so to DAoC players who were looking for a home. This is a fact.

Regardless what PvP focus has the game had since Imperial City was released in 2015 [EDIT: Battlegrounds came out in 2017?] ? Honestly asking. Every DLC since has been PVE focused and there are a lot of them.

Marketing PvP is smart. most games have at least SOME PvP. But I doubt it was ever intended to be the #1 focus of the game. Or if it was, I guess it didnt' pan out financially to focus on Cyrodil/ImperialCity / Battlegrounds.

I enjoy some PVP - so I'm just curious. Was 2017 the last new PvP content?

Unlike PvE players, PvP players need much less new content to keep playing =-) I am a PvP player first but I never play a MMO thats pure PvP. I like the same game to give me my PvE fix as well. I just wish Zeni would drop Cyrodiil or support it properly.

Limiting group sizes. Made it harder to find a group as few people want to lead groups made PvP less accessable.

Lags, framerate drops, desyncs, skill delay, skills not working at all, countless bugs (that are not being fixed for years), endless loading screens, bluescreens (on playstation) and many other words to describe a very bad performance.

Everyone involved in selling this game should be ashamed!

It's a beautiful game. But it feels like a Ferrari with a very old lawn mower engine.

@Pepegrillos, thanks for the awesome video link. I had to run it back and watch in slow motion after doing a double take at the scene from 0:36 to 0:37 because it looked like someone firing a pistol, but it was a small handheld crossbow.

We're all forgetting the elephant in the room:

Players, new to the PVP scene, *have to have an actual chance of surviving and succeeding*. Getting steamrollered and ganked all the time, to the point where one's only hope of making any sort of "achievement" is surviving and avoiding enemy players for long enough to complete the meagre PVE objectives in a PVP area, is just Not Fun.

In other words, a newbie - even in mismatched, inferior gear and with few skills to speak of - has to actually stand a chance of surviving against a veteran, and possibly even winning. Or at least, not be punished for dying: the whole "get sent back to base, when base is a hell of a long way away from where you actually want to be", is a major punishment that cannot be borne when it happens over and over again.

And "get better" is not always the answer, not when "get better" requires huge amounts of time and often real money to get the actual gear needed. Whether that's farming the gear, or donating for crowns to sell for gold to buy gear with, or whatever.

Perhaps it's possible to survive when there is a critical mass of other lowbies in the same situation as you, where there is a ratio of Very Few powerful players to Very Many newbies: a position where if, even if you are awful at PVP, the chances are that if you meet another player, they will be as awful as you.

Once you get a critical mass of people who are better than that, a player who is new to PVP just isn't going to be in that situation. They aren't going to get a chance: they get killed, in seconds, over and over again, often without even seeing who killed them.

Honestly, it *needs* churn - it needs veterans to leave, so that new players can enjoy competing against each other without veterans stuffing up the place and mowing people down who don't have a chance to fight back.

And it needs less of a difference between newbie and veteran: say, a situation where five newbies even in mismatched gear and only a few skills between them, should be able to fight on equal footing against a fully equipped veteran, and if you had ten such newbies, the veteran should not have a chance of survival.

Movement speed differences are a serious thing, especially with short-range teleports like Streak, which belong to only one class. If you are not literally fast enough, you cannot catch another player to damage them.

People shy away from eso pvp because its horribly balanced. I mean you know your mmo is setup for failure when you have to add a bandaid buff called "battle spirit" so your players don't melt one another and even with that the ttk is still quick if you don't completely spec into pvp which means changing your character so much its not feasible going from one spec to another.

The new armory will help alleviate that but that still requires tons new gear and mats to make a pvp able character.

Also seige battles don't feel as epic as one would think. The keeps are all bland and look the same and the towns are super tiny. The whole zones aesthetics feels fake.

A big part of it is that the gap between what people who don't know anything about pvp and the people who do is too high, which highly discourages new players to replace the old.

They initially were investing a lot of resources into PVP but players stopped populating it, for example when they released Battlegrounds they had to make it free relatively shortly after because the population was too low to restrict participation by ownership of Morrowind.