Why is the PVP population so low?

MEBengalsFan2001

Skoomah wrote: »

It's been such a long time since the PVP community has gotten any new brand new content. Not recycled content like class, skill, set, game mechanics adjustments. No new maps, game modes, zones since Morrowind (June 6, 2017) introduced Battelgrounds. Hard to hold PVP'ers interest in the game if there's nothing new to play in years.

On NA PSN server last night the population wasn't low. I had an hour wait time in Gray Host, a 20 minute for Blackreach and 5 minutes for Ravenwatch. Than battleground was popping every 1-2 minutes. I think the server you are on plays a big role on how busy content really is.

Joy_Division

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

That is fine by the way, and the devs should embrace it TBH. It seems trendy at this point for every MMO released to NEED to devote time to developing and balancing PVP as a major aspect of the game, even making it non-optional after a certain level in open world questing areas like many eastern titles opening the door to griefing and other toxic experiences.

Not every game in the world HAS to be all about PVP. It is OK for a game to exist that focuses on lore, dungeons/raids, and RPG elements. They are called GENRES. Not everything has to be a melting pot.

Besides, anytime an MMO starts shoehorning PVP it inevitably leads to PVE systems being wrecked and the abilities/playstyle of that part of the game being "streamlined," nerfed, and generally made un-fun, all in the name of "balance," since for whatever reason no game developer in the universe seems capable of balancing PVP and PVE separately.

What is the basis for believing the people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO will not be the type of people who are interested in PVP? Are you just assuming that people who like PvP aren;t interested in ES lore? Why make such an assumption?

When this game was launch, when there was no Crown Store, when it wasn't $10 bargain bin, when there was no PvE endgame to speak of, there was a huge population of PvP players.

WabanakiWarrior

Doesn't seem like that's the problem at all man. I'm not about to click either of those options. Even if they released a new BG game mode or a new Imperial City, people wouldn't come back to play it. The problem isn't that we need a new playground. The problem is how crappy the gameplay is.
In my opinion the worst thing they did to PVP mechs was add cast times to ults and abilities. I should have left the game then. Plenty of people did. It slowed down combat, and just about every ability they messed with glitches out now. Some abilities have cast times, others don't, there's no consistency to it. Some classes have access to abilities that ani cancel beautifully, some only have clunky and glitchy skills. It's just unbalanced, unfair, and pretty pointless to invest time and effort in competition.

Marillea

Neither.

The PvP pop is low because the performance is the worst I have ever seen in any game. And that isn't even the only issue PvP has, the balance is terrible, the tank meta is still a thing, proc sets, everything adds up into a mixture of nonsense that the remaining few hopeful players decide to put themselves through.

The rest left overtime because they clearly weren't getting their money's worth. ESO could have an healthy population for the PvP side of the game, regardless of how many the PvE players are.
Both player types should be equally important, many PvP players still paid/pay for ESO+, DLCs, Chapters and what not because a lot comes from PvE.

And let's be honest, the pop will NEVER grow until they fix issues, because no one is going to enjoy lagging to death, so any new potential PvP player is going to give up as soon as they realise what a mess it is. The pop is low because ZOS allowed it to get this low.

Parasaurolophus

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

That is fine by the way, and the devs should embrace it TBH. It seems trendy at this point for every MMO released to NEED to devote time to developing and balancing PVP as a major aspect of the game, even making it non-optional after a certain level in open world questing areas like many eastern titles opening the door to griefing and other toxic experiences.

Not every game in the world HAS to be all about PVP. It is OK for a game to exist that focuses on lore, dungeons/raids, and RPG elements. They are called GENRES. Not everything has to be a melting pot.

Besides, anytime an MMO starts shoehorning PVP it inevitably leads to PVE systems being wrecked and the abilities/playstyle of that part of the game being "streamlined," nerfed, and generally made un-fun, all in the name of "balance," since for whatever reason no game developer in the universe seems capable of balancing PVP and PVE separately.

Strongly against this opinion. Why can't people who are interested in lore and love the tes universe be interested in pvp? Why such an association? It is a big mistake to categorize players so strictly. I know a large number of high-end players who play pvp too, and decorate houses and complete quests.

The_Old_Goat

VaranisArano wrote: »

Most of the people I know who liked Cyrodiil PVP and later quit did so because of years of bad performance with no end in sight.
Just to quote some strong wisdom and reiterate.
I don't know how I always butcher quoting somebody but I hope you all get the meaning.

Sylosi

Neither.

The PvP population is low because it is not very good, so does not actually appeal to most PvP gamers. Which to be fair to ESO is pretty much the issue with PvP in MMORPGs full stop, though some MMORPGs do a bit better job than ESO does on that front.

The basis of good, skilled and most importantly fun PvP is competitiveness, not in some "e-sports" sense, but simply that a match, a fight, etc is contested between reasonable equal players / groups / teams so that you get interesting engaging, challenging gameplay, as opposed to tedious faceroll / getting facerolled that is barely gameplay at all.

ESO's various PvP options are terrible at producing even vaguely competitive PvP, so what you get is mostly bad, one sided, very dull PvP that only really appeals to people who are fine with what is essentially trash tier PvP.

Then add balance is always going to be a car crash in a game like this, so cheese becaomes very, very important and there is even less reason to play it for anyone who wants actual decent PvP.

Hence it is never going to be popular.

Which is why PvP in MMORPGs is basically considered a joke in gaming.

Ippokrates

I don't think that population is low. Everytime when I am trying to get some TC & equip at the last days of campaing, usually one or sometimes two campaings are full of people. Regular people, so my squishy pve dd can easily fight them ^^

But... Because opinions about pvpers are rather negative, perceiving them as griefers not a competitive players who prefer fair fight, usually Cyro & IC are empty. Cause who wanna spend most their time riding or looking on loading screen for many minutes just to be kill in few seconds and had to repeat this cycle? -_-

And today as I was leveling skill tree or my toon I decided to get some sweet xp from BG, I waited, waited and waited... Weird, cause usually queue for BG were much quicker than dungs. Oh, wait, i forgot that now we got only Deathmatches and regular people have no chances to win flag or ball game with no-lifes spending whole day on pvp -_-

And just to be clear, there are some ppl that wanna help pvers to survive in pvp. During last Mayhem we had few really nice threads here on forum how to get ticket in less painful way. Also there are many great theorycrafter that showing how to optimize builds for pvp. Buuuut there were also pvpers laughing at pvers and cheering that they gonna kick some...

Well, if i am gonna see those dudes once again, i would surely remind them how they were crying over Dark Corvengence & Hrotghar. So many threads... Not so funny now, right? XD

So, summarizing... I don't think it is about content. Sure, arena for duels would be great, especially with option for spectators (also in pve version against random world bosses ) BUUUUT lets be honest - it is pv enviroment, i would say quit toxic and largely ungreatful: whatever ZOS would do, pvpers will always be complaining... No change?! How could you?! New sets?! But, but, they are too op! New skill?! Nooo... someone kill me with that so obviously it is broken... New mode?! But it should be done differently, because I lost...

Damn pvpers, they destroyed pvp... ^^

Jameson18

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

None of the people I came to ESO with, that I play ESO with still, or that I met along the way, came to ESO for the PvE.

Just saying.

I'm not sure where the claims of "nobody came here for PvP" are coming from.

In fact, while there's of course issues with players sticking around for PvP due to performance and some of the whacky changes, I'm actually seeing across the guilds, groups, and communities I'm in, more people leaving over PvE issues than anything in recent months.

This is all just from my own personal experience. I'm sure others have different things they see.

SeaGtGruff

The PvP community seems large enough whenever I go to Cyrodiil-- especially the number of players in enemy alliances. But maybe I've just chosen the campaign with the highest population as my home campaign?

The Imperial City seems much less populated outside of events, which is interesting because it was the one wholly-PvP DLC that ZOS has released. [Edit: Yes, it includes PvE content, but 100% of the zone is a PvP-enabled area, outside of the safe areas in the alliance bases.]

I can't speak about the population of the Battlegrounds, since I've never played them-- but they seem popular enough with PvP streamers.

Anyway, I don't know how large the PvP community is in ESO, and whether it's growing, shrinking, or staying the same, but it seems obvious that the majority of the ESO community are PvE players.

And clearly ZOS has released PvP content, so I can't choose that option because I think it's false, although I understand what you meant-- that there hasn't been any new PvP content releases in a long time.

So if I had to choose between the two choices given, I'd probably pick "because PvP population is so low."

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

7 year old mechanics make anything dull.

Update is needed for sure.

six2fall

The overwhelming majority of players in eso are pver's & there is very little done to encourage them to deal with pvp. Outside of transmutes which every guild I've ever been in has had guild events to help pver's get tier 1 which once a player has that there really isnt a need to play pvp.

Could add content to force pver's into pvp but forced pvp is not fun & wont improve pvp situation.

As a mostly solo pve player way I feel about pvp the rewards are not worth my time or the annoyance of dealing with gankers. This goes cyrodiil or ic. For me ap & telvar are way to slow to gain & the amount needed to get everything is too high. That said increasing the rate wouldnt be a good idea as good or even decent pvpers probably dont have any issue with rate of collecting. Other aspects I find to be a hassle is not being able to easily travel or revive when I'm just trying to do a pve quest & some ganker decides wants to show how good he is by killing someone talking to a quest giver. I also feel that cyrodiil is too big with way too much wasted space that just never sees any fighting in most areas. Oh never there is the lag & skills not working right.

Franchise408

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

This, which is why I never understand why PVP'ers always complain about having to do PVE content. This is a PVE game within a PVE IP, catered to a PVE audience.

Quite frankly, I don't find PVP to be very good in this game. It's less about skill and more about gear setups. I do PVP on occasion because I am typically driven to PVP style gaming (online leagues in sports games so I'm playing humans instead of computer, first person shooter games, even MMO PVP), but I find I can't do it much beyond about 30 minutes at a time, and maybe for only a week or so until I'm done with it for another 6 months. PVP in this game isn't very enjoyable to me, and so I stay out of it. The PVP that I do find some form of enjoyment from, is either 1. Cyrodiil, which is laggy to the point of frustration to try to play, or 2. Battlegrounds, which have now taken away all of the interesting modes and left us with only Deathmatch, which I couldn't care less about.

So I do think there is an aspect of "ZOS doesn't create enough PVP content so players don't play it", but the reason why there isn't enough PVP content is because this isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE first game, with some additional PVP content.

Tandor

Skoomah wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

That is fine by the way, and the devs should embrace it TBH. It seems trendy at this point for every MMO released to NEED to devote time to developing and balancing PVP as a major aspect of the game, even making it non-optional after a certain level in open world questing areas like many eastern titles opening the door to griefing and other toxic experiences.

Not every game in the world HAS to be all about PVP. It is OK for a game to exist that focuses on lore, dungeons/raids, and RPG elements. They are called GENRES. Not everything has to be a melting pot.

Besides, anytime an MMO starts shoehorning PVP it inevitably leads to PVE systems being wrecked and the abilities/playstyle of that part of the game being "streamlined," nerfed, and generally made un-fun, all in the name of "balance," since for whatever reason no game developer in the universe seems capable of balancing PVP and PVE separately.

Appreciate your response and feedback but this poll is trying to solicit a response from the PVP community, not the aspects of the game you're referring to.

If someone wants to know why the number of players participating in a particular aspect of the game is low, there's no point asking those already participating, they need to ask other players why they aren't participating. They also need to address the elephant in the room, which so far as PvP is concerned is undoubtedly performance. However, given that the PvP population is low, there is of course no prospect of ZOS spreading out that population even more through the introduction of more content that wouldn't in any event attract enough custom to be a worthwhile use of resources.

AScarlato

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

1. Hrothgar.
2. Dark Convergence.
3. Lag
4. Removed content.

Aleinzzs

I could take the new sets, i could take the zergs, i cannot take the lag and the absurd balance changes going on though, and personally I cant see myself continuing after this patch either.

I have to change up my gear every couple months due to another patch dropping, which used to be ok, but jewelry tempers a expensive... Having to farm out new sets to go pvp isn't fun, but i did it almost every patch, cant be assed anymore.

The fact that i can go into cyro at pretty much anytime and not have skills fire properly, get huge lag spikes when nobody is around, and overall just bug ridden gameplay.

instead of fixing the battle spirit bug, you just straight up nerf/buff sets.

class balance is a joke, for years now people have been saying the paid dlc classes are more powerful. everything else still needs to be brought up to par.

and as a pvper, i can honestly say this game had a draw. but failed to deliver overall. I used to go pvp for hours upon hours on DAOC, WoW, gw2, etc etc etc. none of em made me say screw this as fast as the *** going on in cyro.



oh yeah and to all the pver's that think they run the game, no you really dont. There are a LOT more pvpers here than you realize, a lot of us are just sick of the lag/*** patches situation as well.

robwolf666

tomofhyrule wrote: »

PvP is also affected by the fact that few PvErs want to PvP.
Also, ESO has a high percentage of PvErs who absolutely 100% loathe the idea of being killed by another person, to the extent that that will drive them away from the game.

Pretty much sums up why I don't PvP. I'm not all that interested in Group dungeons etc either.
I came to ESO from Oblivion and Skyrim - so for me, Elder Scrolls was, and always will be, a solo PvE game. If I wasn't able to run around on my own doing most of it, I wouldn't be playing ESO at all, I wouldn't even consider it as being Elder Scrolls, even though it's based in the world.

cyclonus11

Other: Lag

Bucky_13

Other.

Performance has been awful for years in Cyrodiil, this is the main factor that drives people away from it.

Nanfoodle

Im a huge PvP fan and IMO the reason is another reason.

Bad server performance in Cyrodiil.

I came to ESO because I wanted a modern DAoC experience. ESO started out with 600v600 in Cyrodiil and as the performance got worse they lowered it too 500v500 to now its just 200v200 and it still a crash fest. Every PvP guild I have been part of, its always the same topic. I love Cyrodill but I cant take the crashes and lag. So I am looking for a new MMO that gives me my PvP fix.

Every time a new MMO comes out that gives PvP players like me a new hope. Like "New World" PvP fans slowly leave ESO. IF there ever comes out a real 3 faction DAoC game came out, that has stable servers and quality combat. ESO may as well just shut down Curodiil. I left for 2 years out of the frustration of playing in Cyrodiil.

I came back because I miss the game and I dont like "New World". MS has bought ESO, so my hope they get the server problem fixed soon. If they dont, like many PvP fans, I will leave for greener pastures. Zeni and MS really need to look if they want to win back the PvP fans. In that area, this game could grown its business, as we PvP players talk, just like any community. ESO can win back what they lost.

Nanfoodle

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Other: Lag

What kills me, is when we have the yearly event for Cyrodiil, the performance is spot on for that time. Something bugs me about that. Like maybe they know what it takes to give Cyrodiil better performance but they just dont have the resources to maintain it. Can MS help with this?

deadpool3431

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

That is fine by the way, and the devs should embrace it TBH. It seems trendy at this point for every MMO released to NEED to devote time to developing and balancing PVP as a major aspect of the game, even making it non-optional after a certain level in open world questing areas like many eastern titles opening the door to griefing and other toxic experiences.

Not every game in the world HAS to be all about PVP. It is OK for a game to exist that focuses on lore, dungeons/raids, and RPG elements. They are called GENRES. Not everything has to be a melting pot.

Besides, anytime an MMO starts shoehorning PVP it inevitably leads to PVE systems being wrecked and the abilities/playstyle of that part of the game being "streamlined," nerfed, and generally made un-fun, all in the name of "balance," since for whatever reason no game developer in the universe seems capable of balancing PVP and PVE separately.

You do realize that eso was originally supposed to be heavily focused on pvp right? So you dislike pvp therefore that means it should just go away?? I think you may underestimate the amount of us who love eso pvp when it works correctly. Pvp IS and always has been the real "endgame" of eso.

Pepegrillos

Because the target audience of the game is not pvpers, and pvp hasn't been its aim in years. Most of the people that join the game these days are not in for the pvp. Additionally, most of the people that were in the game for the pvp (those that joined early on, mostly during the time when ESO was marketed as a pvp oriented game led by Firor, the DAOC legend) have already left (4-5 years without pvp content is a pretty good hint of where the game aims and where it's going).

EdmondDontes

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

It's less to do with new content than it is with performance issues.

I think the real issue is plain and simple; it costs more to maintain the game for PvP, so it gets last priority always.

EdmondDontes

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

Thannazzar wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Why is the PVP population so low? Chicken or the egg?

Other: Because a very low percentage of MMO players are interested in PVP in the first place.

MMO means PvP to most people.

EdmondDontes

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

Franchise408 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Missing "Other" option: Most people drawn to a fantasy RPG MMO, specifically with the lore/background of the Elder Scrolls franchise, will not be the type of people who are particularly interested in PVP.

This, which is why I never understand why PVP'ers always complain about having to do PVE content. This is a PVE game within a PVE IP, catered to a PVE audience.

Quite frankly, I don't find PVP to be very good in this game. It's less about skill and more about gear setups. I do PVP on occasion because I am typically driven to PVP style gaming (online leagues in sports games so I'm playing humans instead of computer, first person shooter games, even MMO PVP), but I find I can't do it much beyond about 30 minutes at a time, and maybe for only a week or so until I'm done with it for another 6 months. PVP in this game isn't very enjoyable to me, and so I stay out of it. The PVP that I do find some form of enjoyment from, is either 1. Cyrodiil, which is laggy to the point of frustration to try to play, or 2. Battlegrounds, which have now taken away all of the interesting modes and left us with only Deathmatch, which I couldn't care less about.

So I do think there is an aspect of "ZOS doesn't create enough PVP content so players don't play it", but the reason why there isn't enough PVP content is because this isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE first game, with some additional PVP content.

ESO was developed to be and advertised as a PvP game as endgame content. Just look at the box it came in. PvP is practically all it talks about. All the trailers in the beginning were PvP oriented. The PvE focus is a shift from the originally advertised focus.

Nanfoodle

EdmondDontes wrote: »

It's less to do with new content than it is with performance issues.

I think the real issue is plain and simple; it costs more to maintain the game for PvP, so it gets last priority always.

Thats not true. Most PvP players will rerun that same content for years and years very happily. Development cost for PvP is one of the lowest cost part of the game.

EdmondDontes

PVP population is so low because ZOS doesn't release PVP content.

Nanfoodle wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

It's less to do with new content than it is with performance issues.

I think the real issue is plain and simple; it costs more to maintain the game for PvP, so it gets last priority always.

Thats not true. Most PvP players will rerun that same content for years and years very happily. Development cost for PvP is one of the lowest cost part of the game.

replied privately

jedtb16_ESO

Skoomah wrote: »

Why is the PVP population so low? Chicken or the egg?

if it's so low how come i was position 30 in a queue a couple of days ago?

Indigogo

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Why is the PVP population so low? Chicken or the egg?

if it's so low how come i was position 30 in a queue a couple of days ago?

Because the pop caps have been drastically lowered.