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Remove DLC dungeons from Random Daily Dungeon Pool
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Random daily dungeon via group finder is something most people do for easy exp or 10 transmute. I don't wanna deal with newbies slowing the group down or in some cases making it impossible to progress. not my job. if you wanted to do dlc dungeons try forming a pug via zone chat, ask friends or join a guild.
or make it so only your first daily random dungeon pool lacks dlc dungeons.afterwards it works as usual.
Elitist much...how bout no.5 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭I dont get it… Everyone here saying that having ESO+ or DLCs is unfair because the queues are harder. Well, if you do the random just for the reward then do it on normal. nFG1 and nRPD is a different of about what, 5 minutes? And you surely can steamroll everything on normal even with a PUG.
And I strongly forward the fact that the 10 transmutes is a reward for you filling a PUG group, not for you being awesome. If it would be the latter they could just mail it couln’t they?
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M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭DLC dungeons are longer and harder. There should be greater reward for completing them if u get them as a random dungeon. This would also encourage tanks to stay. I do at least 1 random normal each day, and mostly get DLC dungeons and about half the time the tank bails. Of the "tanks" who stay, they are mostly fake tanks with 18k health and no taunt.3 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭1) they should increase the lockdown for dropping group to 2 hours...
I play tanks (real ones) all the time. I join into a random dungeon and get into a DLC dungeon. Togetehr with me are 2 DDs that pull a combined 15k DPS that need 1min per add group and dont have any sense for mechanics. Now you would like to give ppl like me the choice of dying through for an hour or being banned for two and you think this is the right way?nFG1 and nRPD is a different of about what, 5 minutes? And you surely can steamroll everything on normal even with a PUG.
Play a full tank and get into a DLC dungeon, together with 2 of the average DDs that deal 10k or less each. Then have a look how long it realy takes you to slowly crawl through and you will quickly notice that 5min is not the time difference, not even with alot of fantasy.
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Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭When a 277cp shows up with ring of the pale order on and runs ahead because that's what all the websites say to wear and do, it doesn't matter if it was a base game or dlc dungeon.
But hey, for that 4 seconds they were alive, that parse rotation was on point.
For real though: I'm not sure what a solution would be. I myself prefer having it be totally random. I mostly tank though and que with a partner with whom we can basically duo 90% of the 4 man content on Vet/HM anyway.0 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭Honestly if zos removed the dlc's I wouldnt random queue at all. Base game dungeons are boring as heck and on normal you are legitimately in padded wool the entire time. I random vet and get put with people who've never done the dlc's and just take it easy thru it - no expectations. I helped someone get their first ever vet clear tonight, on a base game dungeon just from the queue and it felt nice. Stop and smell the flowers a bit and stop being in such a rush.
If you absolutely insist on penalizing other people the chance to get content done, then by all means, keep shouting your suggestion. If ZOS removed dlc's, thats just taking the randomness out of it and handing you the geodes for free. At least pretend like its work or their gonna take those normal geodes away from you - which for reference, I dont think random normals should give what they give. Some of those dungeons take legitimately 10 minutes, if that.
I agree with the comment on the first page about how other players arent helping each other and then complaining that things take too long. If you teach your fellow community members, the community grows better as whole. Personal opinion tho.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.9 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭heartburnkid wrote: »My sub auto renewed by accident (forgot to turn it off) so I log in to get my daily then shut the game off. I’ll blind que when it ends in 15 days. The dlc dungeons just aren’t fun, take too long, and let’s face it…..the majority of dps are just not good. As a support role, if I do more damage than the dps, there’s a problem. Just give me FG1 and let me go about my day. It’s all about 1 dungeon a day to burn enlightenment and I’m off to other things. At least have a pop up that states which instance you’re going to enter so you can deny it or confirm it. Otherwise I hate making others lives miserable by leaving the second I see which garbage dlc instance I’m in. Make life easier for everyone Eso devs, give us a QOL update where it lets us know which instance is happening so we can say yes or no. I’d keep a sub that way. Why lose money? I know so many people that don’t subscribe due to the dlc dungeons.
This defeats the purpose of having the queue. If you can decide to go or not with no penalty then the queue is no longer random but you sitting there waiting for an easy run. The queue is not there for you to burn off your enlightenment. It is there to allow players wanting to do specific content a chance to fill their group. If players can opt out of certain dungeons there really is no point in having the daily random at all.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."5 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭I started in 2017, didn't buy a single DLC dungeon, didn't ever buy ESO+. By mistakes i turned free ESO+ few times, but never again. If team is doing combined 20k DPS i know it can pass any non-dlc vet dungeon, and 20k is not hard to achieve.
In Vet DLC, with 20k DPS, completing it would be very hard or impossible. It's faster to quit the team right away, than to wait 2 hours until team members start to leave.
If i had ESO+ or unlocked DLC dungeons i would just stop using dungeon finder.0 -
Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭I started in 2017, didn't buy a single DLC dungeon, didn't ever buy ESO+. By mistakes i turned free ESO+ few times, but never again. If team is doing combined 20k DPS i know it can pass any non-dlc vet dungeon, and 20k is not hard to achieve.
In Vet DLC, with 20k DPS, completing it would be very hard or impossible. It's faster to quit the team right away, than to wait 2 hours until team members start to leave.
If i had ESO+ or unlocked DLC dungeons i would just stop using dungeon finder.
I take my 10 and 11yr olds through Vet DLC HM achievements. 20k dps is more than enough. Mechanics. Mechanics. Mechanics.
I come from an older school though, so I guess its differing playing styles and tactics in practical application.7 -
Bl4ckR3alm93✭✭✭
I agree especially when ZoS keeps nerfing us in PVE. These DLC dungeons are easy to carry a low level nowadays especially on Veteran.The easy experience and other rewards is intended to help ensure there are players in the queue for when someone decides to queue for any dungeon.
By reducing the dungeons that are part is this the effectiveness of the random reward us greatly reduced. As such the reward should be reduced or even eliminated.
I'd agree if everyone, and not only players with the DLC received the harder dungeons. But as it is now, players without the dungeons or ESO+ have an easier dungeon queue than players with the DLC or ESO+. The disparity is pretty ridiculous. Paying for a product and being forced into a more challening environment, with the same rewards, as someone who isn't paying.
If anything, they should increase the rewards for queing into random dungeons with ESO+ active or DLC dungeons owned. Further incentivize subscribing or buying the dungeons, while also rewarding players who are forced into more challenging content with no means to control it.
Or, and this is probably the better solution, there should be two random queues. One for DLC and one for non DLC. Allowing players with the DLC/ESO+ to queue specifically to get into a random DLC. Then you assure that players who are in the queue for those dungeons are players who want to be there. And you continue to provide the base game avenue for dungeon queuing for players who have bought those things but may not always want to participate in them.
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Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭
Nah its surprisingly not terrible. Can usually get them through a Vet DLC dungeon with HM depending on which dungeon in between 25 and 75 minutes or so. Haven't done the waking flame ones with them yet though, or myself even. Since they just hit for us 2 days ago. They both parse around 15-20k. However, to be fair, that 15-20k is on a 3mil. I did not take that into consideration upon entry of my previous commentary.0 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭I started in 2017, didn't buy a single DLC dungeon, didn't ever buy ESO+. By mistakes i turned free ESO+ few times, but never again. If team is doing combined 20k DPS i know it can pass any non-dlc vet dungeon, and 20k is not hard to achieve.
In Vet DLC, with 20k DPS, completing it would be very hard or impossible. It's faster to quit the team right away, than to wait 2 hours until team members start to leave.
If i had ESO+ or unlocked DLC dungeons i would just stop using dungeon finder.
I take my 10 and 11yr olds through Vet DLC HM achievements. 20k dps is more than enough. Mechanics. Mechanics. Mechanics.
I come from an older school though, so I guess its differing playing styles and tactics in practical application.
Thats not a good example. Of course you can deal with stuff if ppl follow the mechanics, but thats not the reality. The average DD does only 10-15k DPS and has no idea about mechanics and they dont follow explanations. Thats what i see every day i run dungeons. Its not even like these players are low level or new, many of them go even beyond CP1000.1 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭
Nah its surprisingly not terrible. Can usually get them through a Vet DLC dungeon with HM depending on which dungeon in between 25 and 75 minutes or so. Haven't done the waking flame ones with them yet though, or myself even. Since they just hit for us 2 days ago. They both parse around 15-20k. However, to be fair, that 15-20k is on a 3mil. I did not take that into consideration upon entry of my previous commentary.
You misunderstood me. I wrote total team 20k buffed DPS, not 20k unbuffed per player.0 -
Kusto✭✭✭✭✭So many posts say low group dps is the reason why they dont like dlcs. But why don't YOU do something about it? [snip] We're talking about random daily normals here just for the rewards. Even if you're tank or healer, you can still contribute to dps. Ofcourse if you queue as real tank, in trial setup, you gonna have painful run if group dps is low. You dont need to change your setup completely. Even if you slot couple dps skills will help. You can still wear your heavy tank gear and use master 2h for example to cut down mobs like weeds. And on boss spam executioner after 40%. Now 20k group dps will be 30k and trash pulls 50-100k. Same if you're healer, its even easier. Most healers use destro on back bar and have unstable wall slotted anyways. Just spam that like theres no tomorrow on mob packs and group dps is 100k+. [snip]
Group pve is all about adjusting and adapting to content and group. Wheather its vet hm trial or normal dungeon.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 11, 2021 1:18PM6 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭Healer (not a fake healer DD with healing skills slotted) uses all time to buff/debuff/heal, and only basic weapon attack is available (since it can be interrupted).
If 2 DDs queued into vet DLC dungeon and only do combined 20k damage - it will either take hours to complete the dungeon, or will be impossible at all.
This is not an issue with base game vet dungeons, but if i queued to vet dlc i would first make sure i can play my role properly.1 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would like to see these random dungeons queuing separated into 2 separate categories. One with DLC queuing and the other without. I don't do the DLC. As with trials, I just don't care for the length. I am surely not the hardcore gamer type, nor have enough time in my day or week to dedicate to ESO. However, I still enjoy frolicking around with my characters for the short time I have to play.
Thus, if I would like to have the extra 100k or so XP to assist in leveling up new character or skill, it is more of a path of least resistance to run through a non-DLC dungeon for a few minutes. I really don't have the tolerant or time really to pug a random queue and get a DLC dungeon, then spend hour or more trying to figure out the mechanics; or entertain players dropping out or getting kicked and requeuing for replacements over and over again.
Hey, it is just a video game. It's how you play it and enjoy it. Thus, I don't enjoy DLC dungeons, and I don't play it.Edited by GreenhaloX on September 11, 2021 12:46PM1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭So many posts say low group dps is the reason why they dont like dlcs. But why don't YOU do something about it? [snip] We're talking about random daily normals here just for the rewards. Even if you're tank or healer, you can still contribute to dps. Ofcourse if you queue as real tank, in trial setup, you gonna have painful run if group dps is low. You dont need to change your setup completely. Even if you slot couple dps skills will help. You can still wear your heavy tank gear and use master 2h for example to cut down mobs like weeds. And on boss spam executioner after 40%. Now 20k group dps will be 30k and trash pulls 50-100k. Same if you're healer, its even easier. Most healers use destro on back bar and have unstable wall slotted anyways. Just spam that like theres no tomorrow on mob packs and group dps is 100k+. [snip]
Group pve is all about adjusting and adapting to content and group. Wheather its vet hm trial or normal dungeon.
So now iam not only tanking, buffing, debuffing and helping with heals, i also have to do a heavy portion of the damage. Why exactly do i have 2 DDs in my group when i have to do everything myself? [snip] We do our job and we can demand that others do theirs.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 11, 2021 1:19PM2 -
seldomseenkd✭✭✭So many posts say low group dps is the reason why they dont like dlcs. But why don't YOU do something about it? [snip] We're talking about random daily normals here just for the rewards. Even if you're tank or healer, you can still contribute to dps. Ofcourse if you queue as real tank, in trial setup, you gonna have painful run if group dps is low. You dont need to change your setup completely. Even if you slot couple dps skills will help. You can still wear your heavy tank gear and use master 2h for example to cut down mobs like weeds. And on boss spam executioner after 40%. Now 20k group dps will be 30k and trash pulls 50-100k. Same if you're healer, its even easier. Most healers use destro on back bar and have unstable wall slotted anyways. Just spam that like theres no tomorrow on mob packs and group dps is 100k+. [snip]
Group pve is all about adjusting and adapting to content and group. Wheather its vet hm trial or normal dungeon.
Or I can just drop group and requeue.4 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭Healer (not a fake healer DD with healing skills slotted) uses all time to buff/debuff/heal, and only basic weapon attack is available (since it can be interrupted).
If 2 DDs queued into vet DLC dungeon and only do combined 20k damage - it will either take hours to complete the dungeon, or will be impossible at all.
This is not an issue with base game vet dungeons, but if i queued to vet dlc i would first make sure i can play my role properly.
Untrue. I have a real healer and have at least 2 damage skills on my front bar.
I know this is an untrue statement because I legitimately pulled up to 60% + dps on bosses today and still healed. If you cant fit some damage onto your bar then you are over healing or need to work in some better sets.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.0 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭StevieKingslayer wrote: »Healer (not a fake healer DD with healing skills slotted) uses all time to buff/debuff/heal, and only basic weapon attack is available (since it can be interrupted).
If 2 DDs queued into vet DLC dungeon and only do combined 20k damage - it will either take hours to complete the dungeon, or will be impossible at all.
This is not an issue with base game vet dungeons, but if i queued to vet dlc i would first make sure i can play my role properly.
Untrue. I have a real healer and have at least 2 damage skills on my front bar.
I know this is an untrue statement because I legitimately pulled up to 60% + dps on bosses today and still healed. If you cant fit some damage onto your bar then you are over healing or need to work in some better sets.
Was it vet DLC where you did 60% of total team damage on bosses?0 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Gonna be honest and say I don't have friends for consistent randoms but can speedrun, even with guild members you may just not get a response and it just gets too tiring to ask at a certain point.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Fact: Non DLC owners have an easier random dungeon queue.
Fact: DLC dungeon owners have a harder random dungeon queue.
Those are indisputable facts.
Fact: Non DLC owners are much more limited in the available drops r/t equipment
Fact: DLC dungeon owners have a much more valuable potential equipment pool
Those re indisputable factsTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Not really asking to ruin ESO+ players experience. Asking for there to be a choice in what random queue you enter.e.
Fact: anyone has the capability of announcing in zone chat something along the lines of: "LFG for random dungeon, newbies welcome".Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This used to frustrate me a bit because - from a certain point of view - it seemed like the game penalised me for having ESO+
This is because I did the dungeons just for the daily reward and in this mindset anything beyond a 5 min FG I felt vexing.
Then I started playing support chars which as opposed to DPS need all the sets, ever; if the set exists your healer/tank/off-tank is going to need it for something.
Now I don't mind anymore. Whatever dungeon you land me in chances are I need an ice staff that drops there, or something equally unlikely to drop, so bring it on.2 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭newtinmpls wrote: »
Works better in guilds, but actually what most people want is an experienced player to bring a low level so they can speedrun the dungeon. They don't want a newbie and if they get a newbie they'll just leave them at the door. (That's also a thing, parking a low level at the door whilst they go for a snack, and the others speedrun it). Talk to new players in your guilds and you'll get a long litany of 'I queued for a dungeon, 2 people shot off, 1 quit and I couldn't do anything because they didn't even clear the trash' stories, and 'I asked to do the quest so they kicked me'
There are far better fixes for the toxic random dungeon problem - you fix the incentives
- Cap the big reward drops per day (removes the pay to win 'I've got 18 toons thats 180 crystals a day') and also the repeat speedrunning. Give people say 3 a day max and after that on any toon you just get the 1 crystal reward
- Give you different numbers of crystals (say 5 for non DLC, 10 for DLC, double for vet)
Then decent players will have to decide do I want to do 3 easy runs and get 15 crystals or queue for vet to get more, and hopefully less of the 'oh its DLC all quit' problem too.
The argument that 'it makes people do group content' doesn't work - it's exactly the mix of people you don't want together doing group content and it just puts newer players off. The game rewards need to change so that all the hardcore folks queue for vet.Too many toons not enough time3 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭StevieKingslayer wrote: »Healer (not a fake healer DD with healing skills slotted) uses all time to buff/debuff/heal, and only basic weapon attack is available (since it can be interrupted).
If 2 DDs queued into vet DLC dungeon and only do combined 20k damage - it will either take hours to complete the dungeon, or will be impossible at all.
This is not an issue with base game vet dungeons, but if i queued to vet dlc i would first make sure i can play my role properly.
Untrue. I have a real healer and have at least 2 damage skills on my front bar.
I know this is an untrue statement because I legitimately pulled up to 60% + dps on bosses today and still healed. If you cant fit some damage onto your bar then you are over healing or need to work in some better sets.
Was it vet DLC where you did 60% of total team damage on bosses?
The particular dungeon for the 60% was City of Ash 2. The high boss dps continued thru the other two pledges that day too.
Its not just me though, Our prog group whoever is healer for the day always puts on damage skills and does more than enough damage for a healer. Overhealing is a very real thing, especially if you're a warden. I can afford to drop my heals and parse away just like the dps because I watch my uptimes on skills/sets. I dont expect a newer player to be able to do that, but for people that have been around 7 years, if you're still -only- healing, then you need to level up.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.0 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Random daily dungeon via group finder is something most people do for easy exp or 10 transmute. I don't wanna deal with newbies slowing the group down or in some cases making it impossible to progress. not my job. if you wanted to do dlc dungeons try forming a pug via zone chat, ask friends or join a guild.
or make it so only your first daily random dungeon pool lacks dlc dungeons.afterwards it works as usual.
While this whole issue is complex and I think that there ARE some reasons to consider some kind of happy medium... I don't really like the reasons you listed. It would be the same as if PvE players demanded a no-PvP flag just while they were getting their Tier 1 transmute, because they want a quick 50 transmute and don't want to have to deal with getting killed while doing it.
Raising the reward for ESO+ players (or reducing the reward for non subscribers) would be a better solution. And/or eventually making older DLCs available in the queue to non subscribers after they have been out for a while, and maybe among it so they still aren't accessible directly by travel, so people HOPE to get them.
Really anything other than validating the "I deserve this and I don't want to waste my time with less experienced people" mentality. Sheesh.1
