Undaunted Dailies - unkind speedrun means not everyone gets a key

newtinmpls · September 2021

Last night I took some time to jump in queue for an old Undaunted Pledge to get the key. Wasn't "the one of the day" so it took a bit to pop. We all arrive and I ask in chat if anyone has the quest. No one answers me but through the dungeon one particular group member is going slower, pausing at most of the "quest points". Meanwhile the other two are running ahead, doing the jerkbag "sorta pull" where soft taunts and damage mean most of the mobs are following them but enough are left behind so that the newish-seeming person is mobbed to crap.

I'm playing a necro healer with a partial DPS build (not suitable for vet - but decent for most normals) and I'm trying to stay close enough to the slowest member to keep them alive; which includes throwing the occasional bone totem. I also am trying to stay close enough to the [trying to think of an insult that involves not being able to be patient, but I can't think of anything suitable so make something up here] which also includes my Spirit Guardian bouncing all over (Bonesy rarely gets that much of a workout).

Long story short, in all this stuff a few bars went a bit on the low side, but no one died (healer win).

Then I realize due to running ahead of the [insert slightly more blunt insult, possibly including heritage and habits] I missed a boss and no key for me.

Sad face.

colossalvoids · September 2021

Zos needs to add "joining ongoing encounter" to every old dungeon, I believe it was in works but can't remember for sure.

Cendrillion21 · September 2021

newtinmpls wrote: »

Last night I took some time to jump in queue for an old Undaunted Pledge to get the key. Wasn't "the one of the day" so it took a bit to pop. We all arrive and I ask in chat if anyone has the quest. No one answers me but through the dungeon one particular group member is going slower, pausing at most of the "quest points". Meanwhile the other two are running ahead, doing the jerkbag "sorta pull" where soft taunts and damage mean most of the mobs are following them but enough are left behind so that the newish-seeming person is mobbed to crap.

I'm playing a necro healer with a partial DPS build (not suitable for vet - but decent for most normals) and I'm trying to stay close enough to the slowest member to keep them alive; which includes throwing the occasional bone totem. I also am trying to stay close enough to the [trying to think of an insult that involves not being able to be patient, but I can't think of anything suitable so make something up here] which also includes my Spirit Guardian bouncing all over (Bonesy rarely gets that much of a workout).

Long story short, in all this stuff a few bars went a bit on the low side, but no one died (healer win).

Then I realize due to running ahead of the [insert slightly more blunt insult, possibly including heritage and habits] I missed a boss and no key for me.

Sad face.

That really sucks, but the person doing the quest had an obligation to speak up. Some people seriously lack situational awareness and they might have been willing to slow down a bit if they had seen even one chat message from the quest taker.

jerj6925 · September 2021

with the low population and only getting smaller they just need to make them solo.

six2fall · September 2021

If someone runs far enough ahead to engage boss & others absolutely can not get to boss in time then kick that player. If you cant kick & cant keep up dont waste your time & leave. Yes you'll have a penalty not letting you queue right away but you can always do writs or something during that time. It would certainly be nice if zos did something to solve this issue but I have little hope based on past 6 years.

Zos could do speed run queues, they could allow solo random queuing, they could add a leave with no penalty option that only becomes available after a boss has been killed, they could do a story queue for those that want to go slow...lots of possible fixes but I doubt it would be that easy

newtinmpls · September 2021

I had thought that at some point you only had to participate in the last boss to assure of the key...oh well.

colossalvoids · September 2021

newtinmpls wrote: »

I had thought that at some point you only had to participate in the last boss to assure of the key...oh well.

That's how recent dlc ones were handled.

VaranisArano · September 2021

Cendrillion21 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Last night I took some time to jump in queue for an old Undaunted Pledge to get the key. Wasn't "the one of the day" so it took a bit to pop. We all arrive and I ask in chat if anyone has the quest. No one answers me but through the dungeon one particular group member is going slower, pausing at most of the "quest points". Meanwhile the other two are running ahead, doing the jerkbag "sorta pull" where soft taunts and damage mean most of the mobs are following them but enough are left behind so that the newish-seeming person is mobbed to crap.

I'm playing a necro healer with a partial DPS build (not suitable for vet - but decent for most normals) and I'm trying to stay close enough to the slowest member to keep them alive; which includes throwing the occasional bone totem. I also am trying to stay close enough to the [trying to think of an insult that involves not being able to be patient, but I can't think of anything suitable so make something up here] which also includes my Spirit Guardian bouncing all over (Bonesy rarely gets that much of a workout).

Long story short, in all this stuff a few bars went a bit on the low side, but no one died (healer win).

Then I realize due to running ahead of the [insert slightly more blunt insult, possibly including heritage and habits] I missed a boss and no key for me.

Sad face.

That really sucks, but the person doing the quest had an obligation to speak up. Some people seriously lack situational awareness and they might have been willing to slow down a bit if they had seen even one chat message from the quest taker.

I start dungeons with "anyone need the quest or gear?" and wait for people if they say that they have the quest.

If they don't say anything, then the first time I learn they are doing the quest is when they stop to talk to the questgiver. Which I only see because I'm the tank, and I double check my map to see if everyone is there before we go into the next major fight. I learned to double check because I was prone to assuming that everyone who had the quest would say so, and found out that no, they don't always say something.

Folks, if you get a tank who leads the way properly, it's helpful when you give them a heads-up that you are questing. It's not hard to wait if we know, but conversely, it's pretty easy to leave someone behind if we think you aren't doing the quest.

code65536 · September 2021

means not everyone gets a key

This part is incorrect. Pledge credit is granted as long as the player is inside the dungeon instance. They can even be in the lobby, a million miles away from the action, and they'll still get credit for the pledge quest. What they won't get, if they're too far away, is loot from the kill. But pledge credit only requires being inside the instance.

newtinmpls · September 2021

code65536 wrote: »

means not everyone gets a key

This part is incorrect. Pledge credit is granted as long as the player is inside the dungeon instance. They can even be in the lobby, a million miles away from the action, and they'll still get credit for the pledge quest. What they won't get, if they're too far away, is loot from the kill. But pledge credit only requires being inside the instance.

Wrong.

I was in the instance, throwing heals. Did not get to participate in or loot Iceheart and....

Wait for it...

NO key.

That was in fact the reason I was sad enough to start this thread.

newtinmpls · September 2021

colossalvoids wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

I had thought that at some point you only had to participate in the last boss to assure of the key...oh well.

That's how recent dlc ones were handled.

Apparently the originals are still "kill the list O' Bosses

code65536 · September 2021

newtinmpls wrote: »

I was in the instance, throwing heals. Did not get to participate in or loot Iceheart and....

I said what I said because sometimes when I solo a dungeon that's the pledge, I'll drag my alt account into the dungeon, and they sit around at the entrance while my main account clears the dungeon. The only exception to this that I'm aware of is the lurcher boss in EH2. That said, I've never tried this with Direfrost, so maybe that's another exception. But for virtually every other dungeon, being in the instance is the only requirement.

newtinmpls · September 2021

It is actually nice to know that most of the time it works.

Still pouty though.

Feel free to send me sympathy items in game, especially civilian clothing and branches...

DarcyMardin · September 2021

If you skip one of the bosses required for the pledge (which many speedrunner groups do), then no key.

Nagastani · September 2021

In the old days I remember groups used to pull together as the op mentions.

However these days you have people with enough experience as well as much stronger builds with options that provides availability for either soloing or defeating any real challenge from the run which previously required a group to work together.

It is the way of things.

Amottica · September 2021

DarcyMardin wrote: »

If you skip one of the bosses required for the pledge (which many speedrunner groups do), then no key.

I would expect most speedrunners are doing the pledge if the dungeon is one of the pledges that day. As such it is probably rare they would skip a required boss. The only other common reason for doing a dungeon is gear or daily random. For gear runs a boss skipped is on less chance for that piece of gear.

AinSoph · September 2021

Easy rework would be for the quests to only consider the final boss of the dung for completion. I mean if you can't stop the speedrunners, you might as well let every participant have the guaranteed reward.

newtinmpls · September 2021

AinSoph wrote: »

Easy rework would be for the quests to only consider the final boss of the dung for completion. I mean if you can't stop the speedrunners, you might as well let every participant have the guaranteed reward.

Well...bad news is that I was in Fungal Grotto and a speedrunner got to the final boss, kilt it, and I and a friend were, as the saying goes: SoL

DarcyMardin · September 2021

Amottica wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

If you skip one of the bosses required for the pledge (which many speedrunner groups do), then no key.

I would expect most speedrunners are doing the pledge if the dungeon is one of the pledges that day. As such it is probably rare they would skip a required boss. The only other common reason for doing a dungeon is gear or daily random. For gear runs a boss skipped is on less chance for that piece of gear.

That hasn’t been my experience — if I choose a specific dungeon because I have it as a pledge (it might not be today’s pledge; I could have picked it up anytime…I don’t do pledges religiously each day), I get dumped into the exact same pool as the folks queuing for random daily dungeon for the crystals. Who are, more often than not in my experience, racing full speed ahead thru the dungeon. While some people are kind enough to slow down when I say “doing the quest” or “doing the pledge,” many are not so courteous, especially since the crystal reward came along.

Because of all thr speed runners and shortcut-takers in dungeons, lately I’d rather just solo the dungeons I can solo or duo them with my husband when he’s available. The dungeon finder tool is not fun.

Caligamy_ESO · September 2021

We queued as 3 people the other night and got one of these soft taunting speed runners queueing as "tank" with a greatsword and bow (and no actual taunt.) Even though it was only vFG1, we kicked him right out of the instance anyway and continued on our way casually with 3 people. Don't really care if its an easy clear for anyone, because every one of us was more than capable of soloing the whole thing but if you're going to queue as a tank then you damn well better fulfill the role.

But anywho.. I think what they (ZoS) should do to make dungeons more new player friendly is just put a check on each boss encounter that looks to see if group members are in the instance but not within the aggro radius of the boss and just have them continuously reset to their position like some bosses already do. You can see this happen on Matron Ixniaa in Arx Corinium for example if someone is trying to fight her from the bridge, she and her adds continually phase out of existence and reset to full hp back to their starting positions until everyone enters the room properly.

Could probably end up causing overly slow players to get vote kicked as a result but that's another can of worms.

RoninOfNight · September 2021

newtinmpls wrote: »

I had thought that at some point you only had to participate in the last boss to assure of the key...oh well.

I think that is just for the random daily.

Ken_Koerperich · September 2021

Daily "Q"s are getting LONGER & LONGER....

"Q"ing for NORMAL's....

Took Rando Norm over an hour waiting....

Daily Undaunted....1.5hrs.....

And wouldn't you know it....

For me, I drew a "NEW" Rando....

Typed in Quest.....what a joke...Speed run the whole way....Luck had it that I only needed to speak to the NPC twice...WHEW!

Undaunted also....TURBO MODE.....Was done in like 5 min.....

I was still "stuck" in the water of the shortcut the Leader took....didn't even get to hit the BOSS....

Wish I could run that fast, kill that quickly SOLO....

NOT!

I've learned to just keep quiet, and play along....

"Q"'s taking so long during a session, and liking to get them done, means just "sprinting" w/ the pack....

BLEH!

Grandchamp1989 · September 2021

Personly I just wish the pledge would be completed after you killed the final boss.

Many times I have qued for a pledge and finally get into a dungeon.. but it is in progress and two of the bosses are dead - so no keys for me. Kinda not fun IMO..

Amottica · September 2021

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

If you skip one of the bosses required for the pledge (which many speedrunner groups do), then no key.

I would expect most speedrunners are doing the pledge if the dungeon is one of the pledges that day. As such it is probably rare they would skip a required boss. The only other common reason for doing a dungeon is gear or daily random. For gear runs a boss skipped is on less chance for that piece of gear.

That hasn’t been my experience — if I choose a specific dungeon because I have it as a pledge (it might not be today’s pledge; I could have picked it up anytime…I don’t do pledges religiously each day), I get dumped into the exact same pool as the folks queuing for random daily dungeon for the crystals. Who are, more often than not in my experience, racing full speed ahead thru the dungeon. While some people are kind enough to slow down when I say “doing the quest” or “doing the pledge,” many are not so courteous, especially since the crystal reward came along.

Because of all thr speed runners and shortcut-takers in dungeons, lately I’d rather just solo the dungeons I can solo or duo them with my husband when he’s available. The dungeon finder tool is not fun.

interesting because this is not my experience at all. Most are fairly chill unless it is the pledge. I guess RNG plays a role everywhere.

Merforum · September 2021

newtinmpls wrote: »

Last night I took some time to jump in queue for an old Undaunted Pledge to get the key. Wasn't "the one of the day" so it took a bit to pop. We all arrive and I ask in chat if anyone has the quest. No one answers me but through the dungeon one particular group member is going slower, pausing at most of the "quest points". Meanwhile the other two are running ahead, doing the jerkbag "sorta pull" where soft taunts and damage mean most of the mobs are following them but enough are left behind so that the newish-seeming person is mobbed to crap.

I'm playing a necro healer with a partial DPS build (not suitable for vet - but decent for most normals) and I'm trying to stay close enough to the slowest member to keep them alive; which includes throwing the occasional bone totem. I also am trying to stay close enough to the [trying to think of an insult that involves not being able to be patient, but I can't think of anything suitable so make something up here] which also includes my Spirit Guardian bouncing all over (Bonesy rarely gets that much of a workout).

Long story short, in all this stuff a few bars went a bit on the low side, but no one died (healer win).

Then I realize due to running ahead of the [insert slightly more blunt insult, possibly including heritage and habits] I missed a boss and no key for me.

Sad face.

There really needs to be something done with they absolutely toxic speedrunners. Kicking is NOT an option because the other 2 people always decline for some reason. I just had a rando today where we had a 20K health moron, with no taunt at all. I was a real healer with many buffs and shields for everyone but couldn't keep this dude alive. The DDs were OK but all 3 of them died several times. It was Black drake villa. I didn't say anything about the fake tank in the beginning.

Then he just kept running ahead trying to treat it like an XP grind but in dungeons the monster don't just all follow you so you can nuke them, they roam around and attack the rest of the team who you left behind. Also this dude did it 3 times and died all 3 times. I initiated a vote kick and it was declined. It was obvious what was happening so I have no idea why those DDs declined. Anyway we slogged thru last boss with me healing like crazy and also tanking most of the time and having to rez the fake and DDs 2 times.

Guess what happened after I carried this fake tank thru whole dungeon. Of course, he had the gall to ask everyone for some gear. WHAT, you can't do your role, make the dungeon take longer (even with me healing/shielding like crazy) and all you can say is 'I need kinras gear'. 'NO FROM ME'

We should be able to block these people so they never show up on our team in DF or BGs, instead of where currently if you ignore you can chat with them. I literally would wait 20 minutes if I was able to block these dudes and never have to deal with them again.

stefj68 · September 2021

I don't remember what pleges i was on doing a random, but people skipped some boss that were required for the pledge, and pledge didnt complete for me, even if i get back and solo those bosses...

i understand your frustration

Ballermfrau · September 2021

The dungeon finder in its current state is a mess.

The amount of leaving and kicking shows that its still the one from release, while 5 different systems were added.

etchedpixels · September 2021

Ballermfrau wrote: »

The dungeon finder in its current state is a mess.

The amount of leaving and kicking shows that its still the one from release, while 5 different systems were added.

Disagree - you can't fix social problems with technology. You can only fix it with social solutions and removing the perverse incentives Zenimax created.