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It ain't right that CP players can remain in under-level-50 campaign after they reach level 50
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Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?
More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.
Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.
Unless something changed- and if it did I'm sure it was a mistake, no you can't equip CP gear in non vet pvp after vetting out.
Have you actually tried to do it yourself? I have. I couldn't. I've had friends try. They couldn't.
So you leap from level 49 to the gear cap and your stats become atrocious.
You can or at least you could when i did it like 3 years ago.PC/EU, StamSorc Main0 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »You can obtain monster sets starting at level 45 when you can start doing undaunted content.
As far as i know you can only get the shoulder piecers though and cant get a full monster set for under level 50.PC/EU, StamSorc Main1 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭When considering if a lvl50CP160 character has a power advantage in the U50 campaign is something I can provide a bit of insight into, as I have done a bit of testing on the actually effect of battle levelling. Unfortunately it all changed with CP2.0 and the new base stats and since then I have only retested a little and haven't covered the full level range but so far it looks like battle levelling does the following:
1) A player gets +50 base health, mag, stam for each level they are below 50.
2) A percentage bonus is applied to all stats and regen*. For mag and stam and regens, this percentage bonus appears to be ~0.625% for every level the player is below 66 (CP160 is treated as LvL66). For health, the percentage bonus is half that. *the bonus to regen does not seem to apply to regen gain from racial bonuses or drinks (and perhaps mundus as well). Prior to CP2.0 and base stats this multiplier also affected spell/weapon damage but that seems to no longer be the case.
3) On top of the percentage bonus to regen, a player also gets +~17.5 mag and stam regen for every level the player is below 66 (CP160 is treated as LvL66).
Now, as I said I haven't re-covered the full range of levels with my testing since CP2.0 came in but the above was true for the level ranges I have tested. If it is true for the whole range and we can be linearly extrapolated out then this would suggest that if we compare a lvl 49 to a lvl 50CP160 player
A lvl 49 player gets:
1) +50 base health/mag/stam
2) a (66-49)*0.625 = 10.625% bonus to mag, stam and all regens (excluding the sources mentioned above), and a 5.3125% bonus to health
3) an extra (66-49)*17.5 = 297.5 mag and stam regen on top.
A lvl 50 player gets
1) Extra attributes of choice from attribute points
2) Access to their last racial passive
3) Access to gear that is only available at CP160 (mythics, monster sets etc)
The attributes base attributes are a bit of a wash so it really comes down to whether the last racial passive and the advantage of the extra gear access outweighs the bonus stats and regens. Which in my eyes it probably doesn't.
I would also point out another slightly interesting affect that I noticed a while ago on sub 50 characters:
U50 crafted gear actually seems to behave like it is one level or quality higher than is stated. (I assume there is some rationale behind this based on the fact that you can only craft even levels). Which means that crafted gear has an inherent advantage over dropped gear while a player is U50.
Example, base damage of a sword:
On a level 20 character:
Crafted Gold level 20 sword: 1665
Dropped Gold level 20 sword: 1335
Crafted Purple level 20 sword: 1335
On a level 21 character:
Crafted Gold level 20 sword: 1335
Dropped Gold level 21 sword: 1335
Now it was a while since I looked into this, so it may have changed at some point. Additionally, while I haven't tested fully, this effect seems to extend out to all stats of an item, ie: armour, enchants, set bonuses.
So I know we have been discussing a lvl49 vs a lvl50 CP160, but in comparison to both of them a lvl48 in lvl48 crafted gear can actually be even stronger, due to this gear effect (if it is still the case).5 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »[Since there is already a mechanic in place to remove the character and the issue does not have a significant impact on the campaign there is not much reason to change anything.
There is a significant impact on the campaign, since this CP 956 player is so over-powered and impossible to kill. There is a need to change the mechanic, since he is still playing some 12 to 14 hours after he hit level 50. This player has more than 3 times the AP of the next highest player in his faction since campaign reset. (I suppose because he has killed so many players today?) I'm just saying: It (allowing a CP 956 player to continue for some 12 to 14 hours after hitting level 50) DOES impact the under-level-50 campaign.
Being CP 956 is not very relevant since the CP is disabled in that campaign.
Moreover, if the player has stayed in that campaign for 12 to 14 hours then report it as an abuse of the system. If they have been in the campaign for what is an entire day after they reached lvl 50 it is very much an isolated issue as I expect it takes a lot of planning to make sure you are ready to hit level 50 and hold off playing until you have an entire day to play.
I think this is the better way to approach the situation. Zenimax can see if they were truly in the campaign for 12 to 14 hours after reaching level 50 which could lead to specific actions. More importantly, Zenimax can see if this is something that is abused regularly to warrant making a change to the game.1 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’ve leveled several toons exclusively in baby cyrodiil over the years. I’ve been on both sides of this and can confidently say:
1) CP is disable in the lowbie campaign so that person gets no advantage
2) due to stat scaling, that person is less powerful than they were at level 49
3) also due to stay scaling, their cp160 gear doesn’t benefit them any more than a lower level is benefited by level appropriate gear
4) The biggest power gap arises around level 45, when a player has unlocked and leveled enough skills to outplay low level toons by a big margin. (The exception to this is people who buy the guild skill lines which is also problematic when matched up against people new to ESO. There nothing quite like seeing a level 16 throwing Dawnbreakers and using Meditate.)
I honestly don’t think this is a problem.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche4 -
HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭Last post: Well, he's now been playing the under-level-50 campaign at CP 956 (and higher) for some 17 hours. But most folks here seem to believe that's okay. As I said, I think the under-level-50 campaign should be for under-level-50 players, no matter what justifications people use about Battle Leveling buffs and gear. I am very disappointed this situation is allowed. I guess I am in the minority.0
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »Last post: Well, he's now been playing the under-level-50 campaign at CP 956 (and higher) for some 17 hours. But most folks here seem to believe that's okay. As I said, I think the under-level-50 campaign should be for under-level-50 players, no matter what justifications people use about Battle Leveling buffs and gear. I am very disappointed this situation is allowed. I guess I am in the minority.
That makes me concerned for entirely different reasons. Hope he's at least stretching.7 -
Ken_Koerperich✭✭✭Under 50 is "EASIER" to get Emperor....If that's still a thing...
Or back in the VR level days, that's why "they" stayed in noobie zone as long as they could.
Less people to fight, and would "RIG" the game so they always had things to give AP quickly.
When I did PvP back then, it left a foul taste in my mouth, as this got out, and around quickly that people were rigging the zone so they could get Emperor, and not be challenged....
The "last" one I heard about, was a whole guild, using "alts" to "take" keeps/resources, then run off and "MAIN" Emperor character would swoop in and take them back for AP.....Rinse repeat round the clock....It was also known that "that" account was being ran by a "household/group" of players so it never logged out and was gaining AP at a quick rate, so nobody could "overtake" it and beat it out for that Title....
So, it may be something like that being attempted, IF it's still allowed in game....
As I said, I quit PvP back then due to this, and once I returned, knowing all of this, VOWED to NOT go there, except to get what is required for Achievements/PvE....And leave....0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’ve leveled several toons exclusively in baby cyrodiil over the years. I’ve been on both sides of this and can confidently say:
1) CP is disable in the lowbie campaign so that person gets no advantage
2) due to stat scaling, that person is less powerful than they were at level 49
3) also due to stay scaling, their cp160 gear doesn’t benefit them any more than a lower level is benefited by level appropriate gear
4) The biggest power gap arises around level 45, when a player has unlocked and leveled enough skills to outplay low level toons by a big margin. (The exception to this is people who buy the guild skill lines which is also problematic when matched up against people new to ESO. There nothing quite like seeing a level 16 throwing Dawnbreakers and using Meditate.)
I honestly don’t think this is a problem.
Thank you for this information.
I had wondered if stat scaling worked the same in Cyrodiil, especially sub-50 campaign since I had noticed how much weaker we become when we hit level 50 and do not have CP. I started playing this year so that is very fresh on my mind.
So it seems this is not the reason why the player is unkillable after all and this should not have a significant effect on the campaign with the short duration the player will be present at that level.1 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »Last post: Well, he's now been playing the under-level-50 campaign at CP 956 (and higher) for some 17 hours. But most folks here seem to believe that's okay. As I said, I think the under-level-50 campaign should be for under-level-50 players, no matter what justifications people use about Battle Leveling buffs and gear. I am very disappointed this situation is allowed. I guess I am in the minority.
At this point, submit a ticket to ZOS. Either they have been on for 17+ Hours or they have found a way to bypass those systems in place to get level 50 characters out post log-out or departure from Cyrodiil.1 -
Monte_Cristo✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »Last post: Well, he's now been playing the under-level-50 campaign at CP 956 (and higher) for some 17 hours. But most folks here seem to believe that's okay. As I said, I think the under-level-50 campaign should be for under-level-50 players, no matter what justifications people use about Battle Leveling buffs and gear. I am very disappointed this situation is allowed. I guess I am in the minority.
That makes me concerned for entirely different reasons. Hope he's at least stretching.
Maybe it's more than one person using the toon? Working in shifts?1 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?
More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.
Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.
So you leap from level 49 to the gear cap and your stats become atrocious.
And I don't think this is the case because of scaling.
"Battle Leveling is a system in ESO designed to scale lower level players up to be competitive in PVP content. Battle Level only effects Cyrodiil, Imperial City, and Orsinium. When you enter Cyrodiil , your stats will scale up to average Champion Point 160 stats."
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/31249/~/how-does-battle-leveling-work?
That is outdated
Battle leveling is now in all of tamriel since the one tamriel like 4-5 years ago
The more you out level your gear the more atrocious the set bonus get
For exemple craft a lv1 item equip it to your bellow lv50 and do the same with one of your cp160
The set bonus will be much lower on the cp1601 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’ve leveled several toons exclusively in baby cyrodiil over the years. I’ve been on both sides of this and can confidently say:
1) CP is disable in the lowbie campaign so that person gets no advantage
2) due to stat scaling, that person is less powerful than they were at level 49
3) also due to stay scaling, their cp160 gear doesn’t benefit them any more than a lower level is benefited by level appropriate gear
4) The biggest power gap arises around level 45, when a player has unlocked and leveled enough skills to outplay low level toons by a big margin. (The exception to this is people who buy the guild skill lines which is also problematic when matched up against people new to ESO. There nothing quite like seeing a level 16 throwing Dawnbreakers and using Meditate.)
I honestly don’t think this is a problem.
1) True.
2) I doubt that a lvl 49 with decent gear is stronger than a cp 160 with the same gear on his level, because the battle leveling barely makes any difference at that high levels and the gear and enchants you have at 160 are pretty much definitely going to be better.
3) Also true, but for most players its going to be way more likely that they have gold CP 160 gear than gold level 40 gear.
4) I would say that in nonvet players get stronger up until about level 35, if they build correctly, and start to get weaker as soon as they pass level 40, because that is the highest level you can craft enchants at, the battle leveling is not as strong as it was at 35 and if you built properly you should have pretty much every skill and most passives you want by at least 36.
And btw it is quite easy to get both Dawnbreaker and Meditate at level 16 without buying the skill lines (if you know how to).
PC/EU, StamSorc Main0 -
HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭Well, it's happened again: A player in the under-level-50 campaign hit level 50 and is continuing to play for hours and hours and hours afterward. This player is playing in the same faction as the guy who did it last time. So, maybe this is something the guys in that faction do now.
In any case, most folks who commented here seemed to believe it simply does not matter. I say again, the under-level-50 campaign should be for under-level-50 players only. If it doesn't matter that over-level-50 players play here, then eliminate the campaign entirely, and have everyone play the no-CP campaign instead.0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »So what most folks are saying is: "We don't need an under-level-50 campaign, since it's okay for a player over level 50 to play in the campaign." Obviously, I disagree. If we have an under-level-50 campaign, then restrict it to players under level 50, no excuses.
That's not what anyone is saying. What we are saying is you are making a big deal out of someone hitting level 50 and playing for a few hours longer. It's such a minor issue it isn't even worth dealing with and it really makes no major difference a level 49 and a level 50.spartaxoxo wrote: »As soon he logs he'll be out of there. I don't think a one player edge case needs the entire system changed.HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »CP is disabled in under 50, and the first time they log out or quit the game after reaching level 50 while they are in cyro they can not log in to the under 50 campaign again.
True. But that's not good enough. They should NOT be allowed to play this campaign for hours and hours after reaching their full CP. As I said: If it is okay, then why have an under-level-50 campaign at all??? This guy has been playing for at least 6 hours since he went over level 50.
It is not a situation where the campaign is located with level 50 characters and the difference between level 49 and level 50 characters are very small for the reasons already mentioned by others. Since there is already a mechanic in place to remove the character and the issue does not have a significant impact on the campaign there is not much reason to change anything.
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0