It ain't right that CP players can remain in under-level-50 campaign after they reach level 50

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

Today in the under-level-50 campaign ("Icereach") a player reached level 50, at which point he is now CP 956, yet he has continued to play the campaign for hours. I am told this is allowed. This player is unkillable: his Health will drop to near-zero, but he never dies.

Well, it should NOT be allowed. When a player reaches level 50 in this campaign, then he should be booted from the campaign immediately, or the first time he or she:
- takes a transit shrine,
- enters or exits a delve,
- enters or exits a building, or
- uses a Keep Recall stone
- is reported (a Game Master should remove them from the campaign)

But immediate removal from campaign would be best. Why are such players allowed to stay in this campaign for hours and hours? Yes, yes, I know: They can't use their CP (it's a no-CP campaign). And, yes, they may lose the Battle Leveling buff. But still, if it's okay for CP players to be in this campaign, then the campaign should be open to ALL CP players! There's really no need for an under-level-50 campaign in that case.

Fennwitty · September 2021

Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?

More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?

More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.

Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.

TequilaFire · September 2021

CP is disabled in under 50, and the first time they log out or quit the game after reaching level 50 while they are in cyro they can not log in to the under 50 campaign again.

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

TequilaFire wrote: »

CP is disabled in under 50, and the first time they log out or quit the game after reaching level 50 while they are in cyro they can not log in to the under 50 campaign again.

True. But that's not good enough. They should NOT be allowed to play this campaign for hours and hours after reaching their full CP. As I said: If it is okay, then why have an under-level-50 campaign at all??? This guy has been playing for at least 6 hours since he went over level 50.

jaws343 · September 2021

There is going to be zero difference between a level 49 and a level 50 player in under 50 cyro. Especially with set reconstruction. A player can mostly have the exact same build with the same sets in under 50. So, not really a big deal. And it resolves itself the moment they log out.

ealdwin · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

CP is disabled in under 50, and the first time they log out or quit the game after reaching level 50 while they are in cyro they can not log in to the under 50 campaign again.

True. But that's not good enough. They should NOT be allowed to play this campaign for hours and hours after reaching their full CP. As I said: If it is okay, then why have an under-level-50 campaign at all??? This guy has been playing for at least 6 hours since he went over level 50.

I don't know what more should be done, honestly. It wouldn't seem fair to immediately kick someone off of the campaign once they hit level 50. They could be in the middle of a battle, and then *poof*, and they miss out on some of the rewards (AP) they were actively earning.

Maybe the conditions could be tweaked to the next time transit shrine is used the "kick" happens, but that's a big maybe.

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

There is going to be zero difference between a level 49 and a level 50 player in under 50 cyro. Especially with set reconstruction. A player can mostly have the exact same build with the same sets in under 50. So, not really a big deal. And it resolves itself the moment they log out.

Isn't "set reconstruction" limited to CP 160 gear?

Sylvermynx · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There is going to be zero difference between a level 49 and a level 50 player in under 50 cyro. Especially with set reconstruction. A player can mostly have the exact same build with the same sets in under 50. So, not really a big deal. And it resolves itself the moment they log out.

Isn't "set reconstruction" limited to CP 160 gear?

No. A lower level character can recon pieces at her level.

jaws343 · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There is going to be zero difference between a level 49 and a level 50 player in under 50 cyro. Especially with set reconstruction. A player can mostly have the exact same build with the same sets in under 50. So, not really a big deal. And it resolves itself the moment they log out.

Isn't "set reconstruction" limited to CP 160 gear?

The only thing level locked I believe are Mythics, Monster, and Arena sets. Although I am not sure on the Arena sets.

All of which are entirely not necessary to make an unkillable build against under level 50 players. The build you could make at level 49 is going to be just as powerful as the one you could make at level 50. At least comparatively powerful. It may do more damage than the level 49 build and have more survivability, but the level 49 build is already going to be outclassing anyone else in under 50 who isn't specced out fully.

Giraffon · September 2021

Pfft. Don't care. Fine the way it is.

Casul · September 2021

I've seen people on sub 50 that have solid gold gear jewelry included in 10 level increments. The one dude going with 160 gear isn't going to matter when you consider the low level scaling.

TequilaFire · September 2021

Actually years ago I leveled from 49 to 50 in under 50 campaign, I thought oh boy, but quickly learned I lost a lot of power when battle leveling boost went away when I hit level 50.

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

So what most folks are saying is: "We don't need an under-level-50 campaign, since it's okay for a player over level 50 to play in the campaign." Obviously, I disagree. If we have an under-level-50 campaign, then restrict it to players under level 50, no excuses.

rpa · September 2021

Obvious theoretical solution would be to let player stay at 49 and level up to 50 only after they leave. In practice I'd expect attempt to untangle spaghetti to do that would cause major attack of bugs and a costly cycle of unplanned maintenances and hotfixes.

jaws343 · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

So what most folks are saying is: "We don't need an under-level-50 campaign, since it's okay for a player over level 50 to play in the campaign." Obviously, I disagree. If we have an under-level-50 campaign, then restrict it to players under level 50, no excuses.

That's not what anyone is saying. What we are saying is you are making a big deal out of someone hitting level 50 and playing for a few hours longer. It's such a minor issue it isn't even worth dealing with and it really makes no major difference a level 49 and a level 50.

Ratzkifal · September 2021

CP are still disabled in that campaign btw, so it really doesn't make a difference other than the additional attribute points and skill points you get for your last session of PvP in that campaign. Also it's a pretty big level jump, so your gear will be severely outgrown unless you do have 160CP gear ready, in which case you are just as strong as a lvl48 character using lvl48 gear.
This is making a fuzz over nothing.

The only thing that should be changed is allowing characters above lvl50 but below 160CP into the below 50 campaign, but keeping CP disabled still. Characters below 160CP are getting completely demolished in CP enabled PvP, but even in noCP PvP above 50 they are the only people who still don't have permanent gear who also can't go back into below50 where everyone is also outgrowing their gear. They are actually being put at a disadvantage, but unlike the crazy people who bring their below50 characters into the "grown-up" campaigns, the below160CP people have no other choice anymore.

Lumsdenml · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

So what most folks are saying is: "We don't need an under-level-50 campaign, since it's okay for a player over level 50 to play in the campaign." Obviously, I disagree. If we have an under-level-50 campaign, then restrict it to players under level 50, no excuses.

No. What we are saying is that you actually become weaker at lvl 50 (if you do not change gear) and about the same if you do have cp160 gear that you can swap to. You do get the bonus of a monster helm, but honestly, its not that big of a difference due to the scaling in U50.

FluffWit · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?

More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.

Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.

Unless something changed- and if it did I'm sure it was a mistake, no you can't equip CP gear in non vet pvp after vetting out.

Have you actually tried to do it yourself? I have. I couldn't. I've had friends try. They couldn't.

So you leap from level 49 to the gear cap and your stats become atrocious.

Lumsdenml · September 2021

FluffWit wrote: »

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?

More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.

Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.

Unless something changed- and if it did I'm sure it was a mistake, no you can't equip CP gear in non vet pvp after vetting out.

Have you actually tried to do it yourself? I have. I couldn't. I've had friends try. They couldn't.

So you leap from level 49 to the gear cap and your stats become atrocious.

Do you know when that was? I know a while ago you could because I've seen monster helms proc in u50. Also guild mates have equipped 160 gear in there. I can never be bothered so I personal have not tried.

Lumsdenml · September 2021

FluffWit wrote: »

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?

More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.

Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.

So you leap from level 49 to the gear cap and your stats become atrocious.

And I don't think this is the case because of scaling.

"Battle Leveling is a system in ESO designed to scale lower level players up to be competitive in PVP content. Battle Level only effects Cyrodiil, Imperial City, and Orsinium. When you enter Cyrodiil , your stats will scale up to average Champion Point 160 stats."

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/31249/~/how-does-battle-leveling-work?

FluffWit · September 2021

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Maybe a silly question on my part, I don't play under 50 (no characters for it). Without CP isn't the difference a single skill point and attribute point?

More consequential would be gear, assuming that character is then allowed to wear level 50 CP160 gear they might have stockpiled in the bank.

Yes, they can wear their best CP 160 gear after level 50, including gold-quality sets, trial-sets, and monster sets.

Unless something changed- and if it did I'm sure it was a mistake, no you can't equip CP gear in non vet pvp after vetting out.

Have you actually tried to do it yourself? I have. I couldn't. I've had friends try. They couldn't.

So you leap from level 49 to the gear cap and your stats become atrocious.

Do you know when that was? I know a while ago you could because I've seen monster helms proc in u50. Also guild mates have equipped 160 gear in there. I can never be bothered so I personal have not tried.

Jeez.... 4 years ago I guess. That's about when I finally stopped doing below 50 pvp.

Ippokrates · September 2021

Sure, if someone want to manipulate, that is the option that give nice advantage, because suddenly the players have access to all sets in the game including trial, monster, mythic or even pvp sets taken by different alts (collecting pvp sets cost a little bit and i don't think that people under 50 would use so much AP to get stuff below 50).

However... I think that it would be unfair to casual players to be immediately booted from the campaing, regardless of what they are doing - lets say going for Emperor

, which could accumulate a lot of xp.

Ultimately, it is ESO, where personal skills are more important than equipment

Amottica · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

CP is disabled in under 50, and the first time they log out or quit the game after reaching level 50 while they are in cyro they can not log in to the under 50 campaign again.

True. But that's not good enough. They should NOT be allowed to play this campaign for hours and hours after reaching their full CP. As I said: If it is okay, then why have an under-level-50 campaign at all??? This guy has been playing for at least 6 hours since he went over level 50.

It is not a situation where the campaign is located with level 50 characters and the difference between level 49 and level 50 characters are very small for the reasons already mentioned by others. Since there is already a mechanic in place to remove the character and the issue does not have a significant impact on the campaign there is not much reason to change anything.

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

Well, the player is still in the under-level-50 campaign. He's been playing for about 12 hours since he turned level 50 and up-leveled to CP 956. As mentioned previously, he is extremely overpowered and nearly unkillable.

But everyone is saying: It's okay for a player over level 50 to play in the under-level-50 campaign. If that is true, I say abolish the campaign. If it's not true, then strictly limit the campaign to those under level 50. It doesn't matter if some Twink build could match a CP 956 player; this campaign should be for new players and new characters, not Twinks.

HumbleThaumaturge · September 2021

Amottica wrote: »

[Since there is already a mechanic in place to remove the character and the issue does not have a significant impact on the campaign there is not much reason to change anything.

There is a significant impact on the campaign, since this CP 956 player is so over-powered and impossible to kill. There is a need to change the mechanic, since he is still playing some 12 to 14 hours after he hit level 50. This player has more than 3 times the AP of the next highest player in his faction since campaign reset. (I suppose because he has killed so many players today?) I'm just saying: It (allowing a CP 956 player to continue for some 12 to 14 hours after hitting level 50) DOES impact the under-level-50 campaign.

TequilaFire · September 2021

You can obtain monster sets starting at level 45 when you can start doing undaunted content.

spartaxoxo · September 2021

As soon he logs he'll be out of there. I don't think a one player edge case needs the entire system changed.

Lumsdenml · September 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Well, the player is still in the under-level-50 campaign. He's been playing for about 12 hours since he turned level 50 and up-leveled to CP 956. As mentioned previously, he is extremely overpowered and nearly unkillable.

But everyone is saying: It's okay for a player over level 50 to play in the under-level-50 campaign. If that is true, I say abolish the campaign. If it's not true, then strictly limit the campaign to those under level 50. It doesn't matter if some Twink build could match a CP 956 player; this campaign should be for new players and new characters, not Twinks.

Two things.

1) Was this player as "unkillable" at lvl 49 as he is at 50? My guess is that he is probably about the same.
2) U50 campaign is not for new players. It is for new characters. There is a difference. It would not be fair to force someone's level 10 alt into a campaign where other players have all skills unlocked, MA weapons and monster sets. (read this as all other players, not just one player who you can avoid)

Lumsdenml · September 2021

TequilaFire wrote: »

You can obtain monster sets starting at level 45 when you can start doing undaunted content.

Hmmm... Good point. I've never done this, but the monster set drops at level? So you can have a lvl 45 monster set?

TequilaFire · September 2021

Lumsdenml wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

You can obtain monster sets starting at level 45 when you can start doing undaunted content.

Hmmm... Good point. I've never done this, but the monster set drops at level? So you can have a lvl 45 monster set?

Yes, that is why I wait till level 50 CP160 to turn in keys they give you as part of level up/events to not waste them.
Been along time they may have changed this but I did screw up when I was a noob and got a shoulder at level 45.
But if you were a try hard in the under 50 you might use them.