This is happening with me, too. I feel like if you've completed vet with him doing hm mechanics, we deserve the achievement and title... Spent nearly an hour or so fighting him last night because of that.

Fhritz wrote: »

What are these mechanics? When i've done the dungeon in normal mode i didn't saw anything weird

The Outburst ability and the fiery tornado wall are the hardmode mechanics. When I did it, those always activated without actually starting hardmode.

Not only that but the bleed from the 'straight-line' mechanic that comes from the boss and targets everyone is not dodge-able, does not leave a visible puddle on the ground for you to avoid, and is crazy hard to heal up from.

noblecron wrote: »

Magma Incarnate is doing HM mechanics on normal vet and non vet.

Elaborate. Which mechanics, specifically?

DHalb91 wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

What are these mechanics? When i've done the dungeon in normal mode i didn't saw anything weird

The Outburst ability and the fiery tornado wall are the hardmode mechanics. When I did it, those always activated without actually starting hardmode.

Incorrect. Both of those are present in regular vet and are not exclusive to Hard Mode.

scelesticscylla wrote: »

From the guides i've read that have been posted, they too are listing the fire tornado walls and the outburst ability as HM exclusive.

Any guide that makes such a claim is incorrect.

The nerfs for regular vet, from vet HM are...

• Decreased boss health.
• Decreased health of the stones in the portal realm.
• Blitz no longer leaves behind a persistent AoE.
• No scorions will attack the players (scorions that empower the boss can still spawn when portal phase fails, but those "penalty" scorions do not actually attack players).

noblecron wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

Magma Incarnate is doing HM mechanics on normal vet and non vet.

Elaborate. Which mechanics, specifically?

DHalb91 wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

What are these mechanics? When i've done the dungeon in normal mode i didn't saw anything weird

The Outburst ability and the fiery tornado wall are the hardmode mechanics. When I did it, those always activated without actually starting hardmode.

Incorrect. Both of those are present in regular vet and are not exclusive to Hard Mode.

scelesticscylla wrote: »

From the guides i've read that have been posted, they too are listing the fire tornado walls and the outburst ability as HM exclusive.

Any guide that makes such a claim is incorrect.

The nerfs for regular vet, from vet HM are...

• Decreased boss health.
• Decreased health of the stones in the portal realm.
• Blitz no longer leaves behind a persistent AoE.
• No scorions will attack the players (scorions that empower the boss can still spawn when portal phase fails, but those "penalty" scorions do not actually attack players).

The Outburst and the tornados others have mentioned and it certainly felt like he had constant AOE and increased health.

But if it's the case that the dungeon is working as intended then that means this dungeon is intended for the 1 percent that follows meta religiously and does vet hm often which is a shame for folk that like doing vet and can do it but don't run meta. ZOS should then nerf the dungeon and stop catering to the 1 percent.

I agree that it is significantly harder than similar final bosses, and if this is a bug, then that makes sense.

However, I fully disagree with your comment about this boss catering to meta builds. This dungeon has no straight dps checks other than the stones. Rather, this boss caters to the more coordinated groups.

Let's talk about the fire tornado wall, you don't have to outrun or out-dps the tornados, instead, there isn't a tornado at the closest point to the center, so the group must run there.
What about the outburst? That is pretty much the exact same mechanic as the geysers in bloodroot forge. If the tank doesn't stand on the geyser, the group dies. It doesn't matter if you are a meta-build if the tank doesn't stand in the circle.
What about the blitz burns (lines coming out from the boss)? That's just a heal check. If your healers fail to complete the check, then you die. There are similar mechanics to this all over the place, and definitely doesn't require a meta healer to pass. If your healer is unable to keep you alive during this phase, you can also slot a shield and spam that (what I did last night), or drop a barrier.
Finally, let's say that everything's falling apart. Don't forget that you can summon one of the three hidden bosses to fight for you, and when you do, everyone who is dead gets revived with a shield.

Once again, I'd argue that this boss does not cater to the meta builds, but instead to coordinated groups, and in my experience the non-meta groups are usually the ones more coordinated as they pump out less dps and have to focus on mechanics more.

code65536 wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

Magma Incarnate is doing HM mechanics on normal vet and non vet.

Elaborate. Which mechanics, specifically?

DHalb91 wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

What are these mechanics? When i've done the dungeon in normal mode i didn't saw anything weird

The Outburst ability and the fiery tornado wall are the hardmode mechanics. When I did it, those always activated without actually starting hardmode.

Incorrect. Both of those are present in regular vet and are not exclusive to Hard Mode.

scelesticscylla wrote: »

From the guides i've read that have been posted, they too are listing the fire tornado walls and the outburst ability as HM exclusive.

Any guide that makes such a claim is incorrect.

The nerfs for regular vet, from vet HM are...

• Decreased boss health.
• Decreased health of the stones in the portal realm.
• Blitz no longer leaves behind a persistent AoE.
• No scorions will attack the players (scorions that empower the boss can still spawn when portal phase fails, but those "penalty" scorions do not actually attack players).

The Outburst and the tornados others have mentioned and it certainly felt like he had constant AOE and increased health.

But if it's the case that the dungeon is working as intended than that means this dungeon is intended for the 1 percent that follows meta religiously and does vet hm often which is a shame for folk that like doing vet and can do it but don't run meta. ZOS should then nerf the dungeon and stop catering to the 1 percent.

I've done regular vet a number of times now with random folks from group finder. Yea, it's a hard boss fight, but with some practice and an understanding of the mechanics, it's pretty doable on regular vet. There was only one group that gave up on it, but that group didn't get any of the optional buffs, and everyone except me was under 600CP, and despite that, we did manage to get the boss down to under 10%.

That said, when compared to vet HM, regular vet is a breezy walk in the park. I would say that, yes, vet HM caters to the 1%. Regular vet, probably the 20%.

Agreed. While the dungeon is very difficult on Veteran, it is not unbeatable. Nor is it just for “the 1%”. Hardmode on the other hand is very difficult. Normal vet is manageable in PUG’s if you communicate and do the bonus bosses for the buffs and help in the final boss fight. I got two clears with PUG’s yesterday in Veteran non-hard mode. There’s no reason to rush this fight. It’s not a DPS check, it’s all about just being good with mechanics. Even had two 400 level CP’s clear this with me. They just understood the mechanics and avoided the bad stuff.

code65536 wrote: »

scelesticscylla wrote: »

From the guides i've read that have been posted, they too are listing the fire tornado walls and the outburst ability as HM exclusive.

Any guide that makes such a claim is incorrect.

This idea that the walls and the burst are "hm mechanics" probably results from these mechanics not being present in (at least some iterations of) the PTS veteran version.