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Why is there still so little information on companions?

  • LalMirchi
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    A thousand thanks for your answer, so it's just cosmetics as of the moment?

    So I will still rock and roll my DW daggers Mirri for RP. Role Playing is why why I will bring in Bastian as a tank, their roles do seem to be rather predestined. Have to let ol' Bastain wait on the backburner as Mirri has two rapport triggers to Bastians one.

    I'm most def not a meta player and just cruise through the content while having fun.
  • Jaimeh
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    I can't talk about Mirri, but for Bastian as a tank, a good option, stats-wise is to have all vigorous (on purple). It gives him the most health, which also increases with his shields as well.
  • hcbigdogdoghc
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    You know how much DPS my companions do? I don't care!

    Bastian: 1h + shield, Heavy, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Drake's Blood, Kindle, Provoke, On Guard, Ritual of Salvation.
    Only take him out when confronting World Bosses solo.


    Mirri: Dual-Wield, Medium, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Warp Strike, Masque of Torment, Life Siphon, Spinning Steel, Razor Cape.
    Mainly use her for the Teleport and AOE fear, it has no target limit then spends the rest of her time doing AOE damage.

    I only added the Parallel information for those who want to know more about it, don't actually use it myself as I'm not focused on actually pumping their damage. I play for fun, I don't even max DPS my characters. I do builds that I enjoy with rotations that are easy to handle, avoiding any of the min/max or meta crap. Companions just compliment my gameplay.

    I mean.....I at least want to know which trait is the best before I spend gold buying a full epic set.

    A epic companion gear is selling for 300k or more.

    Even if companion dps don't matter, my 300k matters

    Might as well make the most out of that 300k and buy the best companion dps trait.

    If only there's some sort of reliable, backed up companion guide online....
    Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on August 14, 2021 4:32PM
  • VaranisArano
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    You know how much DPS my companions do? I don't care!

    Bastian: 1h + shield, Heavy, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Drake's Blood, Kindle, Provoke, On Guard, Ritual of Salvation.
    Only take him out when confronting World Bosses solo.


    Mirri: Dual-Wield, Medium, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Warp Strike, Masque of Torment, Life Siphon, Spinning Steel, Razor Cape.
    Mainly use her for the Teleport and AOE fear, it has no target limit then spends the rest of her time doing AOE damage.

    I only added the Parallel information for those who want to know more about it, don't actually use it myself as I'm not focused on actually pumping their damage. I play for fun, I don't even max DPS my characters. I do builds that I enjoy with rotations that are easy to handle, avoiding any of the min/max or meta crap. Companions just compliment my gameplay.

    I mean.....I at least want to know which trait is the best before I spend gold buying a full epic set.

    A epic companion gear is selling for 300k or more.

    Even if companion dps don't matter, my 300k matters

    Might as well make the most out of that 300k and buy the best companion dps trait.

    If only there's some sort of reliable, backed up companion guide online....

    Have you considered that the people you are asking to make a reliable, backed up companion guide may not want to spend lots of gold trying out different gear combinations either?

    I mean, if your 300k matters that much to you, consider how they feel spending millions to try out multiple gear sets to try to eke out a little more DPS or healing from Companions?

    If there are theorycrafters wanting to do this on the Live Servers, I wouldn't be the least surprised if they were waiting for the gear prices to drop.

    Or there's always the PTS - I don't have the space to run it on my PC at the moment, but that testing option is available to anyone on PC. If you are on PC, you could experiment there for free.

    Bottom line, if there's not a "backed up, reliable" guide yet, there's not a guide. Yet.

    If you want it tested for you, especially on the Live Servers, then do keep in mind the current cost of Companion gear. That's prohibitive to theorycrafters just like it is to you.
  • Amottica
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    You know how much DPS my companions do? I don't care!

    Bastian: 1h + shield, Heavy, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Drake's Blood, Kindle, Provoke, On Guard, Ritual of Salvation.
    Only take him out when confronting World Bosses solo.


    Mirri: Dual-Wield, Medium, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Warp Strike, Masque of Torment, Life Siphon, Spinning Steel, Razor Cape.
    Mainly use her for the Teleport and AOE fear, it has no target limit then spends the rest of her time doing AOE damage.

    I only added the Parallel information for those who want to know more about it, don't actually use it myself as I'm not focused on actually pumping their damage. I play for fun, I don't even max DPS my characters. I do builds that I enjoy with rotations that are easy to handle, avoiding any of the min/max or meta crap. Companions just compliment my gameplay.

    I mean.....I at least want to know which trait is the best before I spend gold buying a full epic set.

    A epic companion gear is selling for 300k or more.

    Even if companion dps don't matter, my 300k matters

    Might as well make the most out of that 300k and buy the best companion dps trait.

    If only there's some sort of reliable, backed up companion guide online....

    Since we cannot measure their DPS then what we have is what we have, good guesses. It is what it is and is the best you will get.

    Regardless, I would suggest not wasting 300k gold on a piece of companion gear.
  • hcbigdogdoghc
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    Amottica wrote: »
    You know how much DPS my companions do? I don't care!

    Bastian: 1h + shield, Heavy, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Drake's Blood, Kindle, Provoke, On Guard, Ritual of Salvation.
    Only take him out when confronting World Bosses solo.


    Mirri: Dual-Wield, Medium, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Warp Strike, Masque of Torment, Life Siphon, Spinning Steel, Razor Cape.
    Mainly use her for the Teleport and AOE fear, it has no target limit then spends the rest of her time doing AOE damage.

    I only added the Parallel information for those who want to know more about it, don't actually use it myself as I'm not focused on actually pumping their damage. I play for fun, I don't even max DPS my characters. I do builds that I enjoy with rotations that are easy to handle, avoiding any of the min/max or meta crap. Companions just compliment my gameplay.

    I mean.....I at least want to know which trait is the best before I spend gold buying a full epic set.

    A epic companion gear is selling for 300k or more.

    Even if companion dps don't matter, my 300k matters

    Might as well make the most out of that 300k and buy the best companion dps trait.

    If only there's some sort of reliable, backed up companion guide online....

    Since we cannot measure their DPS then what we have is what we have, good guesses. It is what it is and is the best you will get.

    Regardless, I would suggest not wasting 300k gold on a piece of companion gear.

    Yeah I haven't bought any epic gear so far, still stuck with my all blue quickened + shattering. I do managed to find a epic quickened belt for 42k though, dude probably forgot a zero.

    Been waiting for more information since blackwood pts.

    That information never came, and it seems it will never come anytime soon ugh.
    Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on August 14, 2021 5:01PM
  • StamPlar_1976
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    Test it yourself if you don't like the information given to you.

    I dont have 1 billion gold lying around to spend on all these epic companion gear :(

    Besides most of the information given to me so far are "companions are garbage" which unfortunately are not what im looking for.

    Why should someone spend a billion of their hard earned gold so you can see if companions are worth it? Like other people said, if you are so hard pressed on this, download the PTS and test all the different companion gear compositions for free.
  • hcbigdogdoghc
    hcbigdogdoghc
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    Test it yourself if you don't like the information given to you.

    I dont have 1 billion gold lying around to spend on all these epic companion gear :(

    Besides most of the information given to me so far are "companions are garbage" which unfortunately are not what im looking for.

    Why should someone spend a billion of their hard earned gold so you can see if companions are worth it? Like other people said, if you are so hard pressed on this, download the PTS and test all the different companion gear compositions for free.

    I don't have space.

    It's not like anyone's testing companion dps for free either on pts.

    Like I said, it seems like everyone just throw a resto staff on their Mirri/Bastian and called it a day, no one bothered testing anything.
    Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on August 14, 2021 6:18PM
  • Danel_Vadan
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    Like I said, it seems like everyone just throw a resto staff on their Mirri/Bastian and called it a day, no one bothered testing anything.

    Because that's all the Companions are "good" for.
    Tam! RUGH!
  • colossalvoids
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    Well you'll hardly find any information because people doing comprehensive guides and research/math are ultimately not interested in this feature as people always said. It's probably have own niche for roleplaying, walking CC or taunt machine, small support for newer players that need a hand but might afraid of actual people around but not much other than that I'm afraid.
  • hcbigdogdoghc
    hcbigdogdoghc
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    Like I said, it seems like everyone just throw a resto staff on their Mirri/Bastian and called it a day, no one bothered testing anything.

    Because that's all the Companions are "good" for.

    If you are soloing wb and stuff a 10k dps companion is like a 20-25% dps boost

    How is that not good
  • Fennwitty
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    If ZoS doesn't share more about the base numbers everything is theorizing or biased numbers based on experimentation and observation.

    Submit /feedback asking them for more details.

    As an aside, if ZoS balanced traits perfectly, they all should be pretty comparable. It would be bad design to have one specific offensive trait a clear winner in all situations. Though atm for players, crit rate is king PvE.

    Otherwise the only things we can *see* clearly are the flat damage increases coming from Aggressive, and the semi-assumption that penetration and crit works the same way it does for players.

    On live, any purple focused armor/jewelry/1-h weapons gives 569 crit. 2-h weapons gives double that, 1138 crit. So for all intents and purposes, equipping entirely Focused sets gives a total of 569 x12 = 6828 crit.

    Disclaimer: I'm not great at math.

    If Focused numbers work the same as +crit numbers for players, we can grab Alcast's 219 player Critical = 1% crit chance. You didn't like his companion breakdown, but presumably he understands player numbers.

    6828 / 219 = ~31.18 crit chance.

    For a player, ~31.18 is a very low crit rate.

    Aggressive purple is 1.7% for all body+1-h, 3.4% for 2-h, which means a fully equipped companion wearing Aggressive is gets 20.4% damage increase. If they're wearing all medium armor, they get +7% more for a total of 27.4% damage all the time.

    But we don't know the exact multiplier for crit damage when companions crit.

    I'd personally prefer companions to have consistent level of damage not subject to RNG so I know what to expect from them. So to me Aggressive beats Focused.
    PC NA
  • spartaxoxo
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    (...) I heard rumors of companions being able to do 15-20k dps (...)
    Companions weren't designed/intented to do a dps amount similar to a player's dps: they are not meant to replace players. Not even with right trait for dps, aggressive (Damage Done), and all gear purple (companion's top quality) you will be able to pull a high dps: it was announced on a ESO live stream that a fully optimized Companion can do between 5k-10k dps.

    Rumour isn't true at all.

    But like, are we even sure that full aggressive is the best setup? What about some extra pen/crit or faster cooldown?

    From what I have seen all quickened gives best dps but haven't been able to see pen build in action. All purple medium ofc.
  • geonsocal
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    appreciate everyone who mentioned how they were gearing up their companions...

    I have four of them, 2 on each server...they're only around level 12 still...so far though liking the destruction staves the most...resto staff isn't too bad...

    they're still in all heavy, as they get closer to max level will start working in light and medium gear...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • kargen27
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    You know how much DPS my companions do? I don't care!

    Bastian: 1h + shield, Heavy, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Drake's Blood, Kindle, Provoke, On Guard, Ritual of Salvation.
    Only take him out when confronting World Bosses solo.


    Mirri: Dual-Wield, Medium, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Warp Strike, Masque of Torment, Life Siphon, Spinning Steel, Razor Cape.
    Mainly use her for the Teleport and AOE fear, it has no target limit then spends the rest of her time doing AOE damage.

    I only added the Parallel information for those who want to know more about it, don't actually use it myself as I'm not focused on actually pumping their damage. I play for fun, I don't even max DPS my characters. I do builds that I enjoy with rotations that are easy to handle, avoiding any of the min/max or meta crap. Companions just compliment my gameplay.

    I mean.....I at least want to know which trait is the best before I spend gold buying a full epic set.

    A epic companion gear is selling for 300k or more.

    Even if companion dps don't matter, my 300k matters

    Might as well make the most out of that 300k and buy the best companion dps trait.

    If only there's some sort of reliable, backed up companion guide online....

    Could you not just use green or blue and see the differences there. If one trait is better on blue it should also be better on the other stuff. That is my guess anyway.

    My companions get what we find along the way.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Amottica
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    Amottica wrote: »
    You know how much DPS my companions do? I don't care!

    Bastian: 1h + shield, Heavy, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Drake's Blood, Kindle, Provoke, On Guard, Ritual of Salvation.
    Only take him out when confronting World Bosses solo.


    Mirri: Dual-Wield, Medium, 26% Reduced Cooldown.
    Warp Strike, Masque of Torment, Life Siphon, Spinning Steel, Razor Cape.
    Mainly use her for the Teleport and AOE fear, it has no target limit then spends the rest of her time doing AOE damage.

    I only added the Parallel information for those who want to know more about it, don't actually use it myself as I'm not focused on actually pumping their damage. I play for fun, I don't even max DPS my characters. I do builds that I enjoy with rotations that are easy to handle, avoiding any of the min/max or meta crap. Companions just compliment my gameplay.

    I mean.....I at least want to know which trait is the best before I spend gold buying a full epic set.

    A epic companion gear is selling for 300k or more.

    Even if companion dps don't matter, my 300k matters

    Might as well make the most out of that 300k and buy the best companion dps trait.

    If only there's some sort of reliable, backed up companion guide online....

    Since we cannot measure their DPS then what we have is what we have, good guesses. It is what it is and is the best you will get.

    Regardless, I would suggest not wasting 300k gold on a piece of companion gear.

    Yeah I haven't bought any epic gear so far, still stuck with my all blue quickened + shattering. I do managed to find a epic quickened belt for 42k though, dude probably forgot a zero.

    Been waiting for more information since blackwood pts.

    That information never came, and it seems it will never come anytime soon ugh.

    You can test as well as anyone can. Since we cannot test the companions on a DPS dummy it is not an easy task to truly determine what is BiS for them.
  • Integral1900
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    Folk were expecting something more like Fallout companions like Nick Valentine. What they got was a middle of the road npc that spouts one of three random lines of flavour dialogue for any given action and has nothing specific to say about any location, no lore titbits, just a random comment about cities in general. Combined with their low offensive capacity it’s lead to a general lack of interest.

    I’ve no idea why I’m going through the slow and tedious slog of levelling them up.... It’s probably just habit at this point.

    Let’s face it, there is only one possible explanation for why companions do not gain experience when you hand in a quest, and that is to make the levelling process as slow as possible.
  • Calm_Fury
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    If someone really wants to test companion DPS, can't they just use one of those 600k health dummies (from CWC, I think?), then do 1 light attack and let the companion kill it?

    Combat Metrics and the game text chat should still report the final DPS, no?

    Not that I think it matters or it is worth it, just think that this might be a way to get a good measure, if anyone is really that curious.
  • kringled_1
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    You can't test with a dummy because you can't bring companions into housing.
  • netch_a_sketch
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    Remember that it's still early days. Devs will likely alter/change things about the companions as more player feedback comes in. Don't worry about them being bad for now.
  • Vevvev
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    Like I said, it seems like everyone just throw a resto staff on their Mirri/Bastian and called it a day, no one bothered testing anything.

    Because that's all the Companions are "good" for.

    If you are soloing wb and stuff a 10k dps companion is like a 20-25% dps boost

    How is that not good

    It honestly depends....

    Yes the extra DPS is nice, especially if you're using Mirri with her ultimate, but since they do so low DPS it's good to give them a heal + the Blood Altar. The Blood Altar gives you a synergy to pop and get the Undaunted Command passive proced for some extra sustain, and it heals you when you're unhealable like a vampire channeling Blood Frenzy.

    However, there is an issue and it's that companions count as a grouped ally. I personally don't use companions because it reduces the healing from the Ring of the Pale Order, and as such means I get less uptime on my Blood Frenzy. I personally don't see their pitiful DPS as worth the trade off when I do six times what they do when their ultimate is not charged up. And in overland I find myself killing things before their skills even land....
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • cyberjanet
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    Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
    Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.
  • phaneub17_ESO
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    cyberjanet wrote: »

    Have you actually read it or just glanced over? I'm not saying its wrong in any way as he does have very helpful information, but its very rudimentary explanation as to why they are the best, there's no number crunching involved, or how it describes each stat in detail. I'm all for Quickened, but it also helps to show break points of where the benefits drop off. I like to aim for 26% as its basically topped off for any abilities that are 8, 12, and 16 second cooldown; the only time you need to max it out to 31% is if you plan on using Haste or abilities with a cooldown of 36 seconds, even then the difference is 1.1 seconds.

    Vigorous for tanking is no duh, but it also helps to explain all the benefits involved and the maximum value that can be obtained. Bastian at full Vigorous will be at 40,200 health while Mirri stops at 39,300 health. It also adds benefit to the shield abilities such as On Guard, Drake's Blood, and Skeletal Aegis. There's a write-up above by @Fennwitty on Focused, laying out it adds 31% critical strike chance at maximum rating and why you should avoid it. I'm not a fan of Bolstered as the maximum damage reduction is only 20%, IMO its better off to go Quickened to shorten the cooldown on Drake's Blood, On Guard, and Ritual of Salvation thus increasing the uptime. Why not Augmented, because it only affects certain abilities with the uptime increase leaving larger gaps than using Quickened for the same purpose.

    The OP is looking to maximize his companion's DPS, squeezing as much possible. I don't care too much about my companion's DPS, but if I were to push it then I would do: 10 Quickened, 2 Aggressive, Medium Armor if you don't plan on using Haste. 12 Quickened, Light Armor with Haste. Weapons are Inferno Staff in Group Dungeons, Lightning Staff or Bow for Overland. Melee weapons take too much travel time or waste a slot with Warped Strike, they're also safer at a distance. Have either Pierce Armor or Inner Fire slotted to taunt mobs to himself so they don't dodge roll into oblivion which also is lost DPS time spent rolling away. Also I'm not sure why he is so against Impeccable Shot it may be a DPS loss on the companion for 3 seconds, but its a DPS increase for everyone else hitting the target. It's 20% increased damage taken and it counts as its own debuff type meaning it stacks with Backlash, Minor and Major Vulnerability.
  • cyberjanet
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    cyberjanet wrote: »

    Have you actually read it or just glanced over? .

    Ah, it was purely in answer to... where are the guides.

    While I don't agree with everything Hack the Minotaur says, I find him more interesting than some of the other theorycrafters dominating the scene and usually worth a look. I like that he doesn't roll out the same old same old, especially as I don't even wear False God's.
    Edited by cyberjanet on August 16, 2021 7:30PM
    Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
    Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.
  • Calm_Fury
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    kringled_1 wrote: »
    You can't test with a dummy because you can't bring companions into housing.

    Ah... Didn't know that. I'm not much into either of the systems.

    Guess the only way out is to go the route of the old Sliemcraw / Bloodspawn DPS tests we used to do on consoles before the dummies, hehe.
  • Fennwitty
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    The gear optimization, which companion you use, and your character's abilities and bonuses to group members probably are relatively equal in importance to the companion's output.

    If my character slots a ton of Breach / - defense debuffs then I can skip caring as much about penetration. If I slot almost no defense debuffs, maybe I sometimes take them into dungeons, then likely I get a decent return on equipping Shattering gear on companions.

    Since I share companions across all my characters, I expect gearing them for general-use will be more efficient to my account. So saying 'all aggressive' isn't an exact answer, and it won't apply in all situations.

    But if you want damage and don't want to think too much about changing your own playstyle to accommodate the companion then some combination of quickened or aggressive or shattering traits seem like the most effective DPS gain.


    Long and excessive example:
    If I run a character that boosts crit and crit damage substantially, maybe we come to a point where all Focused gear is the biggest bang for dps.

    Presumably, Companions don't have a 0% base crit rate. Let's assume it's 10%.

    If I'm playing a Nightblade or Sorcerer (give group minor savagery/sorcery on crit ~6%) and slotting skills that buff the group's crit damage like Aggressive Horn (major force) and -- for a reason I can't think of -- Stalwart Guard for minor force to the companion ... we're hitting a Companion crit rate of ~47% with +20 / +10 % crit damage.

    There might be some situation where that results in a really good amount of (companion) damage.

    But I went pretty far out of my way to even get a 'maybe' good damage using +Crit gear.
    PC NA
  • geonsocal
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    I just don't want them to die while I'm fighting...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • hcbigdogdoghc
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    Ok so apparently companion combat API is currently being blocked by ZOS for some reason......

    No wonder there's no addons yet.
    Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on August 17, 2021 2:53AM
  • Kuratius
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    Fennwitty wrote: »
    The gear optimization, which companion you use, and your character's abilities and bonuses to group members probably are relatively equal in importance to the companion's output.

    If my character slots a ton of Breach / - defense debuffs then I can skip caring as much about penetration. If I slot almost no defense debuffs, maybe I sometimes take them into dungeons, then likely I get a decent return on equipping Shattering gear on companions.

    Since I share companions across all my characters, I expect gearing them for general-use will be more efficient to my account. So saying 'all aggressive' isn't an exact answer, and it won't apply in all situations.

    But if you want damage and don't want to think too much about changing your own playstyle to accommodate the companion then some combination of quickened or aggressive or shattering traits seem like the most effective DPS gain.


    Long and excessive example:
    If I run a character that boosts crit and crit damage substantially, maybe we come to a point where all Focused gear is the biggest bang for dps.

    Presumably, Companions don't have a 0% base crit rate. Let's assume it's 10%.

    If I'm playing a Nightblade or Sorcerer (give group minor savagery/sorcery on crit ~6%) and slotting skills that buff the group's crit damage like Aggressive Horn (major force) and -- for a reason I can't think of -- Stalwart Guard for minor force to the companion ... we're hitting a Companion crit rate of ~47% with +20 / +10 % crit damage.

    There might be some situation where that results in a really good amount of (companion) damage.

    But I went pretty far out of my way to even get a 'maybe' good damage using +Crit gear.
    I did some testing on this recently. Pretty sure companions have 0 base crit. They're basically a carbon copy of NPC stats, not player stats.
    I can't disprove the 219=1 % crit data theory with the data I have available, but it's within the confindence interval for my test case.

    Testing at 4155 crit rating:
    226 hits, got 16% crit plus minus 5 % with a 95% confidence interval. 219 crit=1 % would be around 18%, which is plausible.

    To get a rough estimate of the amount of damage that gives you, halve it. So 18% crit chance is around 9% dps increase at 50% extra crit damage.

    A single piece of focused is worth 586 crit rating, which is about 2.66 % crit chance, which is a 1.3 % dps increase. Definitely worse than aggressive.

    Shattering seems to be a 2.1 % to 2.7% dps increase if you're not overpenning. You could use up to 4 shattering traits on trash mobs that are debuffed with major breach. So 4 shattering and 8 aggressive is probably optimal. On bosses you can theoretically use more shattering, but I wouldn't consider that worthwhile.

    You could probably make focused usable if you stacked a lot of crit damage like you said, but running war horn+guard (for minor force) + elemental catalyst to boost companion crit isn't actually realistic. Especially when running solo. Minor force alone still leaves it at 1.6 % more dps, lower than aggressive. With minor and major force you can potentially get 2.1% dps, but with a [snip] uptime. So basically building crit isn't viable unless you want to boost both healing and damage at the same time, or you run your companion in fully optimized raids (who [snip] does that???). For an all-rounder companion I'd probably just use quickened over focused though.

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 26, 2021 11:07AM
  • xgoku1
    xgoku1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Noone bothers testing because:
    1. Max DPS of 8-10k is not worth the effort
    2. Low utility (only for overland content, which is easy - for harder WBs DPS-spec companions die before they can have a meaningful impact)
    3. No standardized testing (dummies) as they aren't allowed inside homes.
    4. Noisy data if tested with a WB like the Abomination in Deshaan

    Alcast's Mirri DPS build uses Light armor because of access to the Haste active skill, which resets CD and is useful when using other armor traits. He has a Medium armor DPS build within the same article.

    I doubt they can do more than 10k DPS. During my personal testing in the initial PTS I found they plateau'd at around 8k DPS wearing mostly Quickened.

    20k DPS is not possible.
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