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The day hope died
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BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vesselwiththepestle wrote: »
You have fragmented shield to get access to the earthen heart passives.
Fossilize in practice becomes a stun with negligible damage that you can't really make use off on stamdk unless you're not playing solo in order to guarantee an ult dump on someone.
But for solo play its just an way too magicka intense way of stunning players without guaranteeing any actual damage as people will be able to block/dodge before you can use the next skill.
1 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Stone Giant was instant only. But tanks were using it so they added a cast time. Tanks used it because of stagger mechanic. They need to understand that anything that buffs group damage or sustain will get used by support roles. So just remove the stagger damage buff, make it instant and support roles will drop it. Stam DDs will still use it because it procs Mountain's Blessing passive.1 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yesterday Rich Lambert was hosting a stream on Twitch and was answering some questions from Chat, one of them was: "When will Stamdk get an instant meele spammable?"
The idea behind an instant meele spammable is to allow Stamdk in PvP to run S&B frontbar and no longer being reliant on using dizzying swing as this forces it into the same niche as Stamina necro and Stamina warden.
Both of those classes are tremendously outclassing stamdk rendering it obsolete as there simply is no chance of competing.
There's a video of Rich's answer to this question but it's too painful to share it here, but he basically said that he sees no reason to add it at all.
When you listen closely to the video you can hear the hearts of all people breaking, who enjoyed stamdk prior to the Heroic Slash nerfs.
May you rest in piece stamdk and may no one defile your grave by using Poop Fist.
My Heart broke and i don't even play a StamDK.3 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I too like to deal less damage with my ability than my Light attack, there is no proper spammable that deals decent enough damage.
My experience with stamDKs in PvP was you just wanted to put as many DoTs on target as possible, so stuff like the claw swipe and poison breath, (along with a lot of poison bow abilities), and then let the target freak out, run away, and melt. Might be easier to just caltrops 'em, and then put DoTs on, before letting them scamper off and expire.
Also running bow on stamdk is actively worsening your performance.
wait, what are you supposed to do to hit other players from range, like during sieges or large melee battles...
that rock doesn't go very far...
Edit: my mistake, the rock does have a range of 28 meters...I tried to make it work, but, still way less effective for ranged combat than a bow...Edited by geonsocal on August 11, 2021 5:03PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I too like to deal less damage with my ability than my Light attack, there is no proper spammable that deals decent enough damage.
My experience with stamDKs in PvP was you just wanted to put as many DoTs on target as possible, so stuff like the claw swipe and poison breath, (along with a lot of poison bow abilities), and then let the target freak out, run away, and melt. Might be easier to just caltrops 'em, and then put DoTs on, before letting them scamper off and expire.
Also running bow on stamdk is actively worsening your performance.
wait, what are you supposed to do to hit other players from range, like during sieges or large melee battles...
that rock doesn't go very far...
Edit: my mistake, the rock does have a range of 28 meters...I tried to make it work, but, still way less effective for ranged combat than a bow...
Playing DK as a ranged spec is directly counteracting against everything the class offers except for Poop Fist.
It has 3 abilities that have a range component that would qualify them as ranged skills, Leap, Chain and Ashen Cloud (ignoring FoO here because it targets the closest enemy).
Leap and Chains both close the gap between the target and you and Ashen cloud is just a typical ground AoE.
Bringing a DK to a ranged fight is equal to the famous knife in a gun fight.4 -
vesselwiththepestle✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stone Fist is very bad as ranged skill, because every fourth cast will be melee. You have "infinite" sustain as ranged DK, though. You get 500 Stamina back every time you cast Lethal arrow
. 1000+ CP
PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant
Give me my wings back!2 -
Redguards_Revenge✭✭✭✭My stam dk still better than my templar...but....to be fair the stam dk is an orc...and the templar is a lowly redguard who has the worst crappy perks in the game.
NB is so damn good...60% crit, 2.2k stam recov, 30k health....5k weapon damage...so sweet. Try getting those stats with a templar and you'll have hell.
NOTHING is more important than crit. Not your hats, not your mythics (unless they give crit) not anything...this game is CRIT OR DIE!0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I too like to deal less damage with my ability than my Light attack, there is no proper spammable that deals decent enough damage.
My experience with stamDKs in PvP was you just wanted to put as many DoTs on target as possible, so stuff like the claw swipe and poison breath, (along with a lot of poison bow abilities), and then let the target freak out, run away, and melt. Might be easier to just caltrops 'em, and then put DoTs on, before letting them scamper off and expire.
Also running bow on stamdk is actively worsening your performance.
wait, what are you supposed to do to hit other players from range, like during sieges or large melee battles...
that rock doesn't go very far...
Edit: my mistake, the rock does have a range of 28 meters...I tried to make it work, but, still way less effective for ranged combat than a bow...
Playing DK as a ranged spec is directly counteracting against everything the class offers except for Poop Fist.
It has 3 abilities that have a range component that would qualify them as ranged skills, Leap, Chain and Ashen Cloud (ignoring FoO here because it targets the closest enemy).
Leap and Chains both close the gap between the target and you and Ashen cloud is just a typical ground AoE.
Bringing a DK to a ranged fight is equal to the famous knife in a gun fight.
^ this
Long ago a long range magDK could be pulled off with the help of old Stone Giant, but now both the mag and stam versions have very poor long range performance. Our ranged skills are designed to bring us, or our enemies, into melee range, and while a stamDK could use a bow it's not optimal for what the class is meant to do.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know about that, maybe in theory or so, but there's a lot of different types (in terms of distance to enemy) of engagement in cyrodiil...
sometimes it's not such a wise idea to go rushing in to a fight...
don't get me wrong, I see people do it all the time, some successfully...
basic class structure aside, there's a lot of different build variables to adjust how a particular toon plays in pvp (again, mostly thinking cyrodiil)...
just simply thinking in terms of siege conflict, a bow or a staff is super useful for a dk...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭just saw the "poop fist" comment, that's too funny, that's exactly what it looks like...
years ago I can't remember if it used to knock players down or back...I liked using it then...getting someone off their feet in pvp is super useful...Edited by geonsocal on August 11, 2021 10:28PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oh yeah, tried to make fossilize work, you can almost never use it during medium to large fights though cuz enemies have cc immunity...back to using burning talons on my mag dk instead...Edited by geonsocal on August 11, 2021 10:31PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭You want to use a tank weapon and have a spammable that deals same damage as dps weapon spammables?
No, I'd like a meele instant spammable that follows the meele spammable damage standards like Suprise attack (bar the sundered status effect damage which is 8% of the spammable standard).
For further explanations please read this thread and my comments in it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/581324/stamdk-spammable/p1
How about Power Slam? It has higher tooltip than Surprise Attack.
Power Slam is the closest thing however using it comes at the cost of losing the only offensive stamina Stun (reverb) stamdk has access to outside of dizzying stun every 22 seconds.
Therefore you use the bricks on one side of your house to fill a gap on the other side just to open up a new hole, in this case lack of an offensive CC.
If you were to use Fossilize you'd highly increase your magicka consumption pushing you further back in viability.
It's not like necro or warden has any stun either. DK has undodgeable Fossilize and Leap and you still want more and more.0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to use a tank weapon and have a spammable that deals same damage as dps weapon spammables?
No, I'd like a meele instant spammable that follows the meele spammable damage standards like Suprise attack (bar the sundered status effect damage which is 8% of the spammable standard).
For further explanations please read this thread and my comments in it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/581324/stamdk-spammable/p1
How about Power Slam? It has higher tooltip than Surprise Attack.
Power Slam is the closest thing however using it comes at the cost of losing the only offensive stamina Stun (reverb) stamdk has access to outside of dizzying stun every 22 seconds.
Therefore you use the bricks on one side of your house to fill a gap on the other side just to open up a new hole, in this case lack of an offensive CC.
If you were to use Fossilize you'd highly increase your magicka consumption pushing you further back in viability.
It's not like necro or warden has any stun either. DK has undodgeable Fossilize and Leap and you still want more and more.
So you're saying StamDK is on par with Necro and Warden?
Also have you heard about Arctic Blast and necro is broken enough to not require a CC additionally both are able to run reverb if they really wanted to.
Edited by BohnT2 on August 12, 2021 11:58AM2 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭You want to use a tank weapon and have a spammable that deals same damage as dps weapon spammables?
No, I'd like a meele instant spammable that follows the meele spammable damage standards like Suprise attack (bar the sundered status effect damage which is 8% of the spammable standard).
For further explanations please read this thread and my comments in it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/581324/stamdk-spammable/p1
How about Power Slam? It has higher tooltip than Surprise Attack.
Power Slam is the closest thing however using it comes at the cost of losing the only offensive stamina Stun (reverb) stamdk has access to outside of dizzying stun every 22 seconds.
Therefore you use the bricks on one side of your house to fill a gap on the other side just to open up a new hole, in this case lack of an offensive CC.
If you were to use Fossilize you'd highly increase your magicka consumption pushing you further back in viability.
It's not like necro or warden has any stun either. DK has undodgeable Fossilize and Leap and you still want more and more.
So you're saying StamDK is on par with Necro and Warden?
Also have you heard about Arctic Blast and necro is broken enough to not require a CC additionally both are able to run reverb if they really wanted to.
No, I'm just answering your comments and you keep adding to what you want.
First it was a stamina spammable that doesn't require two hander. Now it's also having a stamina stun despite your class already having good stuns available.
EDIT: Also you can just use the shield charge ability to stun with stamina.Edited by Naftal on August 12, 2021 12:55PM1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to use a tank weapon and have a spammable that deals same damage as dps weapon spammables?
No, I'd like a meele instant spammable that follows the meele spammable damage standards like Suprise attack (bar the sundered status effect damage which is 8% of the spammable standard).
For further explanations please read this thread and my comments in it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/581324/stamdk-spammable/p1
How about Power Slam? It has higher tooltip than Surprise Attack.
Power Slam is the closest thing however using it comes at the cost of losing the only offensive stamina Stun (reverb) stamdk has access to outside of dizzying stun every 22 seconds.
Therefore you use the bricks on one side of your house to fill a gap on the other side just to open up a new hole, in this case lack of an offensive CC.
If you were to use Fossilize you'd highly increase your magicka consumption pushing you further back in viability.
It's not like necro or warden has any stun either. DK has undodgeable Fossilize and Leap and you still want more and more.
So you're saying StamDK is on par with Necro and Warden?
Also have you heard about Arctic Blast and necro is broken enough to not require a CC additionally both are able to run reverb if they really wanted to.
No, I'm just answering your comments and you keep adding to what you want.
First it was a stamina spammable that doesn't require two hander. Now it's also having a stamina stun despite your class already having good stuns available.
EDIT: Also you can just use the shield charge ability to stun with stamina.
"The idea behind an instant meele spammable is to allow Stamdk in PvP to run S&B frontbar and no longer being reliant on using dizzying swing as this forces it into the same niche as Stamina necro and Stamina warden"
I'm sorry if this didn't make it clear for you.
This implies that having access to set spammable allows for S&B frontbar to be viable, which it isn't right now for the reasons I've explained that you've read as "added requests" .
From all your comments I get the sentiment that you haven't touched PvP or are actively trying to ignore things that are explained to you.
1 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭You want to use a tank weapon and have a spammable that deals same damage as dps weapon spammables?
No, I'd like a meele instant spammable that follows the meele spammable damage standards like Suprise attack (bar the sundered status effect damage which is 8% of the spammable standard).
For further explanations please read this thread and my comments in it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/581324/stamdk-spammable/p1
How about Power Slam? It has higher tooltip than Surprise Attack.
Power Slam is the closest thing however using it comes at the cost of losing the only offensive stamina Stun (reverb) stamdk has access to outside of dizzying stun every 22 seconds.
Therefore you use the bricks on one side of your house to fill a gap on the other side just to open up a new hole, in this case lack of an offensive CC.
If you were to use Fossilize you'd highly increase your magicka consumption pushing you further back in viability.
It's not like necro or warden has any stun either. DK has undodgeable Fossilize and Leap and you still want more and more.
So you're saying StamDK is on par with Necro and Warden?
Also have you heard about Arctic Blast and necro is broken enough to not require a CC additionally both are able to run reverb if they really wanted to.
No, I'm just answering your comments and you keep adding to what you want.
First it was a stamina spammable that doesn't require two hander. Now it's also having a stamina stun despite your class already having good stuns available.
EDIT: Also you can just use the shield charge ability to stun with stamina.
"The idea behind an instant meele spammable is to allow Stamdk in PvP to run S&B frontbar and no longer being reliant on using dizzying swing as this forces it into the same niche as Stamina necro and Stamina warden"
I'm sorry if this didn't make it clear for you.
This implies that having access to set spammable allows for S&B frontbar to be viable, which it isn't right now for the reasons I've explained that you've read as "added requests" .
From all your comments I get the sentiment that you haven't touched PvP or are actively trying to ignore things that are explained to you.
Ok so explain how Bash isn't a proper spammable? You have stuns on your class and on other SNB skill.0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to use a tank weapon and have a spammable that deals same damage as dps weapon spammables?
No, I'd like a meele instant spammable that follows the meele spammable damage standards like Suprise attack (bar the sundered status effect damage which is 8% of the spammable standard).
For further explanations please read this thread and my comments in it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/581324/stamdk-spammable/p1
How about Power Slam? It has higher tooltip than Surprise Attack.
Power Slam is the closest thing however using it comes at the cost of losing the only offensive stamina Stun (reverb) stamdk has access to outside of dizzying stun every 22 seconds.
Therefore you use the bricks on one side of your house to fill a gap on the other side just to open up a new hole, in this case lack of an offensive CC.
If you were to use Fossilize you'd highly increase your magicka consumption pushing you further back in viability.
It's not like necro or warden has any stun either. DK has undodgeable Fossilize and Leap and you still want more and more.
So you're saying StamDK is on par with Necro and Warden?
Also have you heard about Arctic Blast and necro is broken enough to not require a CC additionally both are able to run reverb if they really wanted to.
No, I'm just answering your comments and you keep adding to what you want.
First it was a stamina spammable that doesn't require two hander. Now it's also having a stamina stun despite your class already having good stuns available.
EDIT: Also you can just use the shield charge ability to stun with stamina.
"The idea behind an instant meele spammable is to allow Stamdk in PvP to run S&B frontbar and no longer being reliant on using dizzying swing as this forces it into the same niche as Stamina necro and Stamina warden"
I'm sorry if this didn't make it clear for you.
This implies that having access to set spammable allows for S&B frontbar to be viable, which it isn't right now for the reasons I've explained that you've read as "added requests" .
From all your comments I get the sentiment that you haven't touched PvP or are actively trying to ignore things that are explained to you.
Ok so explain how Bash isn't a proper spammable? You have stuns on your class and on other SNB skill.
I did, please read my previous posts
[snip]
[edited to remove bait]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on August 12, 2021 2:12PM0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The issue with Power Slam isn't that it forces you to use Shield Charge as a stun. The issue with Power Slam is that D Swing is much better. Weaving Power Slam is not as nice as weaving Whip, Heroic Slash, or D Swing, even if it is sort of like boxing or playing kettledrums on your opponents head.
Whatever issues Shield Charge has, Chains has them even worse. Between Leap, Chains, and Shield Charge, it should come as no surprise that improving the kinetics of Stunning Gapclosers would be a big help to the all melee, no mobility class, but it's not going to make an unstacked Power Slam hit as hard as D Swing, and it would do little to help an sDK in a 1v1 against an sDen or sCro.
I personally think Whip is probably a big reason why mDK has remained a premier duelist every patch Necro has been out, right? That's true on PC EU too right, that mDK is consistently a solid class for bringing to a duel competition? But, for all the talk of why run sDK over sCro or sDen - if Whip is the fix, why is sDK more popular than mDK right now outside of dueling? Note that prior to the change for the cast time on D Swing and the buff to Executioner in late 2018 or early 2019 - mDK was the more popular class (at least on my server). Maybe these things aren't directly related, but for a few years there on my server, DK meant MagDK, and people ridiculed me for running 2h as my damage dealing bar, rather than just for Forward Momentum (with its old HoT) as was popular at the time. Frankly, from my view, when comparing sDK and mDK, the change to the cast time on D Swing was the biggest buff for sDK since Noxious and V Claw were introduced.
There's other ways forward for sDK besides a unique instant melee spammable, there's other ways forward for mDK besides a buff to Inhale. Assuming Gapclosing kinetics were fixed - what if Chains gave every DK a stack of Seething Fury regardless whether Molten Whip was slotted? What if every DK could self-activate Ignite like a Necro can Graverobber? What if Dragon Blood gave the same level of passive defense that Spirit Mender does, or Molten Armaments had some secondary effects on par with Netch's? Etc.
Every Buff DK thread is filled with a thousand different ideas - we should be able to narrow it down to a few straightforward changes that would equally help sDK and mDK.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@JayKwellen
All well said. I agree with everything you wrote. I think four is the total number of fingers required to count memorable solo MagCros in our Greyhost, including you. I think without Disdain Harm, without Spirit Mender's passive mitigation, without Expunge, with just some reduction to mCro's otherworldly HPS, the 1v1 balance between mCro and mDK would shift decidedly towards mDK's favor. For sure on sDK I think 1v1s against mCros are my slowest fights right now, even duels against other sDKs resolve more quickly.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
AngryOldMan✭✭✭✭Totally unrelated, but StamDK would be 200% cooler if Noxious Breath was coming out the behind instead of the mouth. Just saying1 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭Noxious breath && Engulfing flames “cone” is like 3m range instead of whatever the tooltip say.Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngryOldMan wrote: »Totally unrelated, but StamDK would be 200% cooler if Noxious Breath was coming out the behind instead of the mouth. Just saying
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ok, so I watched some of it, highlights:
1. During indrik boss in vMoS, everyone ported up "well that wasn't fair" - rich. Also evaded the question about fixing it.
2. Using action duration reminder instead of the in-game timers, I mean, if that doesn't mean they need to get fixed, idk what does.
3. No plan on fixing dungeon "exploits" (vSCP and vMoS 3rd bosses cheese) because other priorities
4. On the question of "will you make warden and necro different gameplays" (it something along those lines) he answered that this is a strong opinion and that he doesn't think they play the same
5. They are working on fixing the insta zone chat voice join on console.
6. Don't remember why stone giant has cast time (but there is a reason for that). And no plan on a instant cast melee stam dk spammable.
7. Cast times on ultimates are here to stay.
8. No plans on updating vMA weapons to perfected (nothing new here, we already knew that).
9. On the question of "if perfected sticker book unlock non perfected one" evasive answer of "maybe". He did say it will be "a nice improvement of life". So there is hope for that. I mean. One day. I give it 2 years.
Thanks for summary.
#2 made me laugh as a console player. Even they know what they have given us in base game sucks compared to add-ons. So sad.1 -
vesselwiththepestle✭✭✭✭✭
✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »Noxious breath && Engulfing flames “cone” is like 3m range instead of whatever the tooltip say.
It should get a wider angle, just like Cleave/Brawler will get.1000+ CP
PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant
Give me my wings back!0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »Noxious breath && Engulfing flames “cone” is like 3m range instead of whatever the tooltip say.
Only due to server positional desyncs. It does hit 10 meters out from where the server thinks you cast it, but where your client says you are might be 7 meters ahead of where the server got the message you cast Fiery Breath. More of a problem with the game's back end than the ability itself.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1