Stamdk spammable

BohnT2

Give Stamdk a proper instant meele spammable thanks.

the1andonlyskwex

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

StaticWave

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Dizzying Swing is NOT the best PvP spammable. That position belongs to Surprise Atttack and Biting Jabs

BohnT2

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Because Stamdk will always be a worse stamden/necro when using dizzying while having access to an instant meele spammable allows stamdk to play S&B frontbar again which hasn't been on par with 2h for ages due to the lack of a proper spammable.

Giving the class a instant meele spammable allows it to differentiate itself from the other stam specs and gives it somewhat of an unique playstyle that's not horribly outclassed by 2 other specs.

Also Poop fist is such an insult of a skill that i just want to see it gone an blank skill that does nothing would be more welcomed than this abomination with identity crisis.

DrSlaughtr

BohnT2 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Because Stamdk will always be a worse stamden/necro when using dizzying while having access to an instant meele spammable allows stamdk to play S&B frontbar again which hasn't been on par with 2h for ages due to the lack of a proper spammable.

Giving the class a instant meele spammable allows it to differentiate itself from the other stam specs and gives it somewhat of an unique playstyle that's not horribly outclassed by 2 other specs.

Also Poop fist is such an insult of a skill that i just want to see it gone an blank skill that does nothing would be more welcomed than this abomination with identity crisis.

S&B will never and should never compete with any of the other weapon lines for damage. It's meant to block damage, tank, and survive. That's why there are no spammable damage skills there.

Even if you had a class "instant" spammable you would never do as much damage with S&B on your damage bar.

Like all base classes DKs are built to do one thing really well. For them it's tank. They are good enough at damage and healing to hang but barring a major rework you just have to be creative to compete.

Wardens and necros unfortunately are over powered and are great at everything. They were built that way. Comparing them to the base classes isn't fair. And ZOS will never make the base classes "great at everything" too.

In PVP stamdks seem to do pretty good. They're hard to kill and output heavy unrelenting damage. I can't speak for pve.

Alucardo

StaticWave wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Biting Jabs

It's good, but because it's the only spammable that can be easily mitigated for 20% by major evasion, then further countered by multiple CP stars, I wouldn't say it's up there with surprise attack.

On topic: I hope they fix stone giant to make it feel better to use. Perhaps just make it melee.

ExistingRug61

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

By the same logic, why should it be a ranged spammable when stam builds already have access to snipe (and crushing weapon)?

To me it seems conceptually odd that it is ranged given the rest of stamdk’s kit. Especially when we consider that the mag version of the class gets a melee spammable.

Extinct_Solo_Player

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Because Stamdk will always be a worse stamden/necro when using dizzying while having access to an instant meele spammable allows stamdk to play S&B frontbar again which hasn't been on par with 2h for ages due to the lack of a proper spammable.

Giving the class a instant meele spammable allows it to differentiate itself from the other stam specs and gives it somewhat of an unique playstyle that's not horribly outclassed by 2 other specs.

Also Poop fist is such an insult of a skill that i just want to see it gone an blank skill that does nothing would be more welcomed than this abomination with identity crisis.

S&B will never and should never compete with any of the other weapon lines for damage. It's meant to block damage, tank, and survive. That's why there are no spammable damage skills there.

Even if you had a class "instant" spammable you would never do as much damage with S&B on your damage bar.

Like all base classes DKs are built to do one thing really well. For them it's tank. They are good enough at damage and healing to hang but barring a major rework you just have to be creative to compete.

Wardens and necros unfortunately are over powered and are great at everything. They were built that way. Comparing them to the base classes isn't fair. And ZOS will never make the base classes "great at everything" too.

In PVP stamdks seem to do pretty good. They're hard to kill and output heavy unrelenting damage. I can't speak for pve.

Ok [snip], explain to me why sword and shield has offensive passives if it's only meant for defense. You also haven't played the game in PVP for very long as both ransack and heroic slash were viable spammables for about 5 and a half years until they got nerfed due to elsweyr patch overbuffing dots and making that playstyle meta. Once dots were nerfed they gutted sword and shield damage and never reverted it. This means stamina characters that do not have their own class spammable are forced to use dizzying swing which shouldn't be the only viable choice.

[edited for baiting]

BohnT2

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Because Stamdk will always be a worse stamden/necro when using dizzying while having access to an instant meele spammable allows stamdk to play S&B frontbar again which hasn't been on par with 2h for ages due to the lack of a proper spammable.

Giving the class a instant meele spammable allows it to differentiate itself from the other stam specs and gives it somewhat of an unique playstyle that's not horribly outclassed by 2 other specs.

Also Poop fist is such an insult of a skill that i just want to see it gone an blank skill that does nothing would be more welcomed than this abomination with identity crisis.

S&B will never and should never compete with any of the other weapon lines for damage. It's meant to block damage, tank, and survive. That's why there are no spammable damage skills there.

Even if you had a class "instant" spammable you would never do as much damage with S&B on your damage bar.

Like all base classes DKs are built to do one thing really well. For them it's tank. They are good enough at damage and healing to hang but barring a major rework you just have to be creative to compete.

Wardens and necros unfortunately are over powered and are great at everything. They were built that way. Comparing them to the base classes isn't fair. And ZOS will never make the base classes "great at everything" too.

In PVP stamdks seem to do pretty good. They're hard to kill and output heavy unrelenting damage. I can't speak for pve.

I pretty much disagree with everything you've said apart from Necro and warden being overturned.

Having S&B as a viable offensive option, like it was until Scalebreaker, for stamdk only would be a huge gain for the game as it gives Stamdk a unique way to play that neither Warden or Necro could fulfill as they lack a proper instant spammable to weave on S&B along with them synergizing much better with 2h anyway.

It's doubtful that a instant Spammable would replace Dizzyng swing anyway unless that spammable bring something to the table that makes up for the loss of burst you'll encounter due to Dizzy hitting right before your gcd ends.
That's the case for Jabs and Suprise attack, not so much for crystal weapon, and surely not for Skulls, birds or poop fist.

Allowing Stamdk to stay on its S&B bar would also allow it to actually be somewhat tanky, as of right now, stamdk tankiness really isn't something to write home about and their damage is pretty meh(not even talking about PTS).

Urzigurumash

TheEndBringer wrote: »

S&B will never and should never compete with any of the other weapon lines for damage. It's meant to block damage, tank, and survive. That's why there are no spammable damage skills there.

Not quite, Power Bash has a higher potential tooltip than D Swing, and the passive "Sword and Board" has a 5% bonus to Weapon Damage.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Even if you had a class "instant" spammable you would never do as much damage with S&B on your damage bar.

While true that - normally, on most classes - any instant spammable will do more damage on a 2h or DW bar than an S&B bar, not necessarily when Corrosive Armor is up, simply because we can maximize our Leap damage with a Maul / Maces, especially a Sharpened Maul / Maces, especially if we're in Heavy Armor, which of course, the purely Melee Knight Class should be in, so that other armor types are appropriately balanced for their intended playstyle. Ignoring Follow-Up, ignoring Ruffian, all of the extra damage from equipping a Sharpened Maul / Maces vs SnB is lost when Corrosive is up, except for the base weapon tooltip, which on most builds is almost equalized by the Sword and Board passive, which can exceed the difference in base tooltip with enough integer WD inputs.

Besides that, if we're talking about differentiation from Warden and Necros, compare the utility of blocking - buffed by DK's passives, and the only time when our sustain passives outperform other classes' - while casting Noxious Breath versus blocking while casting Blastbones or Shalks. You may see more DKs run Noxious on their 2h bar - because they'll get more damage on 1 target with it there, yes, but also because it's the bar they're loading all of their damage potential onto, while maximizing defensive potential on the backbar - just like almost every other class. However even on a D Swing build, even with a Defensive or Powered or Decisive 1h, in the long haul, you can often get more 1vX potential out of the Noxious AoE DoT by running it on the S&B bar, by maximizing its potential against multiple targets, by way of the tactical advantages provided by blockcasting. It seems to me - staying in Melee range and enduring the duration of our DoTs is a way the DK class was designed to play - at least MagDK originally, apparently StamDK too, post Dark Brotherhood, when we were given the poison morphs. SnB goes a along way here - as Heavy Armor traditionally has also. I've made the analogy here to the "Templar House" of the "DK Mobile Home" afforded by our superlative blocking.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Like all base classes DKs are built to do one thing really well. For them it's tank. They are good enough at damage and healing to hang but barring a major rework you just have to be creative to compete.

I personally compete better on sDK already so I can't comment too much about this, but if DKs played to their utmost should accept being pure tanks in PvP, should DK get a set as strong on them as Harbinger is on Necro? Or you talking like Vanguard's Challenge plus Vykosa or something? The point is - before Necro and Warden, in PvP we were able to use our "tank chassis" to deal damage in a way other classes weren't quite good at. We're still good at it, but Stam Whip would help substantially, by allowing us to have an instant cast spammable from the comfort of our Mobile Home which is stronger than an unstacked Power Slam, and which, in the long haul, outperforms a standard D Swing build.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Wardens and necros unfortunately are over powered and are great at everything. They were built that way. Comparing them to the base classes isn't fair. And ZOS will never make the base classes "great at everything" too.

I've been resistant to this idea of a StamWhip for years, despite hearing so much of it, having an affinity for our shared heritage with StamSorc as the original D Swingers. But, years of squaring up with a Warden or a Necro and seeing who can out D Swing the other had me warming up to this idea - but seeing the success of StamSorc with their new spammable made it quite clear - a reliable way a basegame Stam class can stay relevant in PvP is by having an instant spammable capable of being used in some sort of offensive scheme that does more damage than what can be achieved with non-class skills. Even if Crystal Weapon is best used with Crushing Weapon, even though that's a Delayed Burst scheme, a StamSorc has more motivation to slot Crushing Weapon than Warden or Necro, and less dependence on D Swing than a Warden or Necro.

It's time. Let us have Stam Whip. Move Seething Fury to the base ability, and make Molten into Stam Whip.

As for Stonefist - make it into some offensive buff that's best re-casted every 6 seconds - an offensive version of Frag Shield, so sDK can have our Mountain's Blessing without having to use a group defensive buff to maximize our offensive efficiency.

vesselwiththepestle

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

What's bad about Stonefist has been said so many times, I don't think all of it has to be repeated. ZOS must know by now what we don't like about it, but for some reason they hold onto it. At this point I too would prefer a proper Stam Whip, then Stonefist could be reworked into a Stam heal. Remove that Stagger-mechanic and just make Stagger a passive which is applied through single target damage over time. MagDK would lose an option, yes, but have a look at other classes - Dragonknights are the last class which don't have a magicka and a stamina morph on their main class spammable.

Ocelot9x

I just want to see dk gain some identity, not just dot dot ultimate.

A change to inhale: reduce the cost, no need people around to activate the second effect

Make draw essence the Magicka morph, interrupt+more damage on second hit+Magicka back based on targets

Deep breath stamina, damage ramp up with damage blocked (like power slam), longer build up

Make poop fist melee (so you can weave light attacks, weaving in melee with a ranged skill almost guarantee a miss), add stagger to the base skill and buff the damage based on negative effects on the enemy.

Sadly a stamina whip won't be a thing because both morph are very viable for mag dk,a class that is currently suffering too

DrSlaughtr

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Why?

Nobody has everything a typical build needs in their class kit. As a stam build, you already have access to the best PvP spammable (Dizzying Swing), while Wrecking Blow and Rapid Strikes are totally viable in PvE.

Because Stamdk will always be a worse stamden/necro when using dizzying while having access to an instant meele spammable allows stamdk to play S&B frontbar again which hasn't been on par with 2h for ages due to the lack of a proper spammable.

Giving the class a instant meele spammable allows it to differentiate itself from the other stam specs and gives it somewhat of an unique playstyle that's not horribly outclassed by 2 other specs.

Also Poop fist is such an insult of a skill that i just want to see it gone an blank skill that does nothing would be more welcomed than this abomination with identity crisis.

S&B will never and should never compete with any of the other weapon lines for damage. It's meant to block damage, tank, and survive. That's why there are no spammable damage skills there.

Even if you had a class "instant" spammable you would never do as much damage with S&B on your damage bar.

Like all base classes DKs are built to do one thing really well. For them it's tank. They are good enough at damage and healing to hang but barring a major rework you just have to be creative to compete.

Wardens and necros unfortunately are over powered and are great at everything. They were built that way. Comparing them to the base classes isn't fair. And ZOS will never make the base classes "great at everything" too.

In PVP stamdks seem to do pretty good. They're hard to kill and output heavy unrelenting damage. I can't speak for pve.

In pve they are the worst performing Stam spec.

Jierdanit

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

If ZOS wanted that to just make you get more healing they would have just made that passive more healing received instead of adding WD lol

Also 5% more is not really just a "small little damage buff".

francesinhalover

A rock , blue fire, or venom whip would be awesome.

Granted stam dk can always use the psijic spammable.

BohnT2

francesinhalover wrote: »

A rock , blue fire, or venom whip would be awesome.

Granted stam dk can always use the psijic spammable.

No it can't that thing is utterly trash in PvP unless you're ganking on a stamsorc but any spec using meele weapons who use crushing weapon as their spammable are at a huge disadvantage as the skill just isn't reliable at all, isn't instant and doesn't allow medium or heavy attack weaving.

Urzigurumash

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

DrSlaughtr

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

BohnT2

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

CleymenZero

Just remove the initial channel. It's the clunkiest thing in the game and leads to so many mistakes.

DrSlaughtr

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

BohnT2

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Yeah well that's just wrong and I don't think there's any reason to discuss this further if you actually believe that.

Extinct_Solo_Player

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Extinct_Solo_Player

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

You look at the passives and even when it literally shows damage orientated ones you still say they're defensive. I don't know why I'm even replying lol.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

CleymenZero wrote: »

Just remove the initial channel. It's the clunkiest thing in the game and leads to so many mistakes.

That or make the stomp the ability instead, remove cast time, and give StamDK a 360 cleave as a spammable, which would:
1. Be unique, since for stam at the very least
2. Syngize with melee builds in PvE content, and may soloing content easier.
3. Give StamDK something in PvP for battles where one is surrounded or out numbered.

Donatoo

They should remove crushing weapon from the psijic skill line, look how defensive the rest of the skill line is.

Bl4ckR3alm93

BohnT2 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

A rock , blue fire, or venom whip would be awesome.

Granted stam dk can always use the psijic spammable.

No it can't that thing is utterly trash in PvP unless you're ganking on a stamsorc but any spec using meele weapons who use crushing weapon as their spammable are at a huge disadvantage as the skill just isn't reliable at all, isn't instant and doesn't allow medium or heavy attack weaving.

Plus it only last for 2 seconds lol

DrSlaughtr

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Okay after warden and necro what class is the next tanky? With all passives unlocked with Major Resolve they are very tough. Wings. Dragon blood. Armor. Free resource return via passive.

I'm not saying they are as tanky as wardens and necros but they are definitely #3.

Extinct_Solo_Player

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Okay after warden and necro what class is the next tanky? With all passives unlocked with Major Resolve they are very tough. Wings. Dragon blood. Armor. Free resource return via passive.

I'm not saying they are as tanky as wardens and necros but they are definitely #3.

1. that is easily countered by penetration which is widely available to most classes so i wouldn't even class that as a game changer to making them "tough"
2. No stam dk can sustain wings, armor buff,fragmented shield and dragon blood and if you even tried dragonblood on stam dk you would know how bad it is, healing for 4-5k at low hp while also costing 4k+ magicka its a terrible skill imo. wings i won't even talk about because its useless for a Stam dk lol.
3. You do realise the resource return is tied to ulti cost so you are forced to spend your ultimate just to sustain while other classes have flat regen passives and skills returning resources over time while dk does not. That's not a good argument for saying they are tanky at all lol.

DrSlaughtr

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Okay after warden and necro what class is the next tanky? With all passives unlocked with Major Resolve they are very tough. Wings. Dragon blood. Armor. Free resource return via passive.

I'm not saying they are as tanky as wardens and necros but they are definitely #3.

1. that is easily countered by penetration which is widely available to most classes so i wouldn't even class that as a game changer to making them "tough"
2. No stam dk can sustain wings, armor buff,fragmented shield and dragon blood and if you even tried dragonblood on stam dk you would know how bad it is, healing for 4-5k at low hp while also costing 4k+ magicka its a terrible skill imo. wings i won't even talk about because its useless for a Stam dk lol.
3. You do realise the resource return is tied to ulti cost so you are forced to spend your ultimate just to sustain while other classes have flat regen passives and skills returning resources over time while dk does not. That's not a good argument for saying they are tanky at all lol.

You missed the entire point. By default they are number 3 in tankiness and survivability. You can either use this to your advantage or go full damage. That's a choice.

I'm not really sure what the argument is here. There's a reason why DK is the ultimate tank trainer for new players.

Dragon blood is great but if you're sitting at 80% health you won't get the same pop as if you're at 20% because it's not a flat value. It's percentage based. When used in conjunction with vigor you can use dragon as your oh *** heal.

If you need a S&B attack bar to survive on a DK then you're doing something wrong. No offense intended but it's true. I have two DKs myself and I spend a lot of time trying to kill them on my NB. A 2h stamdk is a tough foe to bring down. Even in all medium.