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DV Changes: Not everything has to be correct in PvE, let the players have some fun please?
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Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭100% they just can't fix that it pop double buff from skills like blastbones. So they decide just gut it2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.I drink and I stream things.0 -
Tyreal1974✭✭✭✭No matter how much you like something, it's not a nerf if a set, skill, or item is performing in unintended ways and those ways are fixed. The simple truth is the devs didn't want DV to function in the way it was, so they fixed it. That's not a nerf, that's fixing something that's behaving in a way that wasn't intended. Also, you're forgetting that since PvP and PvE aren't balanced separately, anything that applies to one can 100% be applied to and have something to do with the other. If a set can be cheesed/abused in PvE, it can be used the same way in PvP, and vice-versa.
Then I guess we should all wait for attack weaving to get fixed since this was an acknowledged bug that the Dev's could not fix but, because people liked it, this "feature" was left in the game.Edited by Tyreal1974 on August 4, 2021 1:46AM1 -
cro25519✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.
Little complicated than that. Mag player here. Lots of us in a discord server have already theorycrafted and tested this out, and it's really horrible. Really wanted this set to work but it won't anymore
Yes the reason front bar works so good is because it carries backbar. Here's a couple things:
* If you front-bar it, backbar skills won't proc it. Plar you have two skills proc it easily (wall and rune). Rune is to be used every 20-25s. Before that significant dps loss. You can try it yourself, you lose a lot of GCDs.
* Can't use wall since maelstrom inferno staff.
* Barrage works as well I believe, but you again lose significant dps. First you have to move it up and bring down a fighters guild skill which gave you free extra spell damage on your main damage bar. You also have to keep it on to make sure melee supremacy uptime stays up which means you need to have it run every 5 second for the uptime, which would mean you will lose lots of your GCD for a really weak hitting dot.
* Degen is a dps loss now thanks to change to PL, but even if you use it got problems, the same problems as barrage, lots of recast (it actually is worse since it becomes a sustain issue on top of losing GCDs). Magplar sustain is terrible this patch. Like really really horrible thanks to the nerf to the cp.
* You cannot depend on PL for melee supremacy because if you cast it before 6s it won't paste the copied damage onto the enemy, inducing an extremely significant dps loss. Actually this is a really problematic skill, the 6s forces you to play plar dynamic, which makes this entire thing even harder to maintain, since you have to dynamically maintain this entire thing like a nightblade for squeezing out dps unlike previous patch (PL is literally a weak bow proc right now damage wise (it's great! helped update plar dps a lot so we need to keep it up as much as we can)).
* Now comes the execute and again same problem, magplar without execute is kind of weak, it's during execute when our damage upshots. Now to keep ranged supremacy for plar, you will have to cast sweeps but since the beam is 2s gcd, with a PL cast you are maintaining, you will always lose 1 entire cast of beam every other rotation. That's about 180,000+ damage lost every other rotation.
Is this starting to sound like a headache? Because it is, and despite all this headache and keeping uptime as much as you can it's actually worse than just not caring about the uptime at all which is already long shot dps wise from bahsei/siroria at 93k ish as I mentioned in another post compared to bahsei/sir 106k.
I didn't parse a lot because of all that headache all that put in my mind, but even after 5-6 parses I was barely breaking 90k sometimes.
Now think about this from perspective of a new plar player. This set is essentially so much headache now you might as well just run soulshine (and get a nice 100k).
Honestly speaking, DV even before this pts version wasn't bis on plars. The highest we got last pts was 102k. There's already way easier ways to get that same damage (soulshine) or siroria for 106k. It was just a fun set, and I liked it because it was competitive. You have to crouch-weave to make it work with inferno on execute, but it was nice and fun.Edited by cro25519 on August 4, 2021 2:12AM3 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.
Little complicated than that. Mag player here. Lots of us in a discord server have already theorycrafted and tested this out, and it's really horrible. Really wanted this set to work but it won't anymore
Yes the reason front bar works so good is because it carries backbar. Here's a couple things:
* If you front-bar it, backbar skills won't proc it. Plar you have two skills proc it easily (wall and rune). Rune is to be used every 20-25s. Before that significant dps loss. You can try it yourself, you lose a lot of GCDs.
* Can't use wall since maelstrom inferno staff.
* Barrage works as well I believe, but you again lose significant dps. First you have to move it up and bring down a fighters guild skill which gave you free extra spell damage on your main damage bar. You also have to keep it on to make sure melee supremacy uptime stays up which means you need to have it run every 5 second for the uptime, which would mean you will lose lots of your GCD for a really weak hitting dot.
* Degen is a dps loss now thanks to change to PL, but even if you use it got problems, the same problems as barrage, lots of recast (it actually is worse since it becomes a sustain issue on top of losing GCDs). Magplar sustain is terrible this patch. Like really really horrible thanks to the nerf to the cp.
* You cannot depend on PL for melee supremacy because if you cast it before 6s it won't paste the copied damage onto the enemy, inducing an extremely significant dps loss. Actually this is a really problematic skill, the 6s forces you to play plar dynamic, which makes this entire thing even harder to maintain, since you have to dynamically maintain this entire thing like a nightblade for squeezing out dps unlike previous patch (PL is literally a weak bow proc right now damage wise (it's great! helped update plar dps a lot so we need to keep it up as much as we can)).
* Now comes the execute and again same problem, magplar without execute is kind of weak, it's during execute when our damage upshots. Now to keep ranged supremacy for plar, you will have to cast sweeps but since the beam is 2s gcd, with a PL cast you are maintaining, you will always lose 1 entire cast of beam every other rotation. That's about 180,000+ damage lost every other rotation.
Is this starting to sound like a headache? Because it is, and despite all this headache and keeping uptime as much as you can it's actually worse than just not caring about the uptime at all which is already long shot dps wise from bahsei/siroria at 93k ish as I mentioned in another post compared to bahsei/sir 106k.
I didn't parse a lot because of all that headache all that put in my mind, but even after 5-6 parses I was barely breaking 90k sometimes.
Now think about this from perspective of a new plar player. This set is essentially so much headache now you might as well just run soulshine (and get a nice 100k).
Honestly speaking, DV even before this pts version wasn't bis on plars. The highest we got last pts was 102k. There's already way easier ways to get that same damage (soulshine) or siroria for 106k. It was just a fun set, and I liked it because it was competitive. You have to crouch-weave to make it work with inferno on execute, but it was nice and fun.
If you want a massive constant damage set why not run CA? This set wasn't meant to give free 700~ damage all the time. That's why it's not supposed to work on LA's.
But hey, if you can convince them to roll back, more power to you.I drink and I stream things.0 -
cro25519✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.
Little complicated than that. Mag player here. Lots of us in a discord server have already theorycrafted and tested this out, and it's really horrible. Really wanted this set to work but it won't anymore
Yes the reason front bar works so good is because it carries backbar. Here's a couple things:
* If you front-bar it, backbar skills won't proc it. Plar you have two skills proc it easily (wall and rune). Rune is to be used every 20-25s. Before that significant dps loss. You can try it yourself, you lose a lot of GCDs.
* Can't use wall since maelstrom inferno staff.
* Barrage works as well I believe, but you again lose significant dps. First you have to move it up and bring down a fighters guild skill which gave you free extra spell damage on your main damage bar. You also have to keep it on to make sure melee supremacy uptime stays up which means you need to have it run every 5 second for the uptime, which would mean you will lose lots of your GCD for a really weak hitting dot.
* Degen is a dps loss now thanks to change to PL, but even if you use it got problems, the same problems as barrage, lots of recast (it actually is worse since it becomes a sustain issue on top of losing GCDs). Magplar sustain is terrible this patch. Like really really horrible thanks to the nerf to the cp.
* You cannot depend on PL for melee supremacy because if you cast it before 6s it won't paste the copied damage onto the enemy, inducing an extremely significant dps loss. Actually this is a really problematic skill, the 6s forces you to play plar dynamic, which makes this entire thing even harder to maintain, since you have to dynamically maintain this entire thing like a nightblade for squeezing out dps unlike previous patch (PL is literally a weak bow proc right now damage wise (it's great! helped update plar dps a lot so we need to keep it up as much as we can)).
* Now comes the execute and again same problem, magplar without execute is kind of weak, it's during execute when our damage upshots. Now to keep ranged supremacy for plar, you will have to cast sweeps but since the beam is 2s gcd, with a PL cast you are maintaining, you will always lose 1 entire cast of beam every other rotation. That's about 180,000+ damage lost every other rotation.
Is this starting to sound like a headache? Because it is, and despite all this headache and keeping uptime as much as you can it's actually worse than just not caring about the uptime at all which is already long shot dps wise from bahsei/siroria at 93k ish as I mentioned in another post compared to bahsei/sir 106k.
I didn't parse a lot because of all that headache all that put in my mind, but even after 5-6 parses I was barely breaking 90k sometimes.
Now think about this from perspective of a new plar player. This set is essentially so much headache now you might as well just run soulshine (and get a nice 100k).
Honestly speaking, DV even before this pts version wasn't bis on plars. The highest we got last pts was 102k. There's already way easier ways to get that same damage (soulshine) or siroria for 106k. It was just a fun set, and I liked it because it was competitive. You have to crouch-weave to make it work with inferno on execute, but it was nice and fun.
If you want a massive constant damage set why not run CA? This set wasn't meant to give free 700~ damage all the time. That's why it's not supposed to work on LA's.
But hey, if you can convince them to roll back, more power to you.
Yea and I am asking them to make it work like that. I know it wasn't designed to be like that, everyone knows it didn't work for what it was designed to, no one has doubt about that.
Having multiple sets that can be used at the end-game is good for the game. For some work it provides good damage output, and lets people run different kind of sets, instead of just running the same sorrow/siroria combo. Gives end-game a variety where not everyone is running same cookie-cutter meta.
Someone in the thread said it rightly, they are not looking to play a bland boring game with balance. Different cool things make a game memorable. This is part of Bethesda (which is not ZoS but closely works with) games for years. It was a bug but it provided interesting gameplay, so why not keep it.
Not sure what you mean by run CA. Caluurion's Legacy? That's a terrible set. By all mean if ZoS wants to buff it and add even more variety to the game, I am sure everyone will gladly welcome it. Not even stat wise, even mechanics wise it's a literal cookie cutter parse and it'll automatically proc set.
Would be weird to run that when I am advocating for a set which had interesting mechanics to proc (crouch-weaving with plars for example).
As for me, I am done with this thread, hopefully zos looks at my points and decide on a course of action they seem fit.Edited by cro25519 on August 4, 2021 4:53AM2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭propertyOfUndefined wrote: »I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion, but most of the changes made for the sake of “balance” make the game less fun, imho. If I wanted something perfectly balanced (and bland) there are plenty of other games for that. None of them interest me.
The fun of a good roleplaying game was always finding creative ways to use general mechanics to have fun. In a game of pen & paper D&D, my character once hid inside his “bag of holding” as the ceiling crumbled above him. In Fallout 2, I once used my pickpocket skill to place live explosives in the inventory of a ghoul merchant, then skipped town and came back later to loot his corpse without being mobbed. These were memorable experiences!
You have the popular opinion among gamers.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
K9002✭✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. There are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
The thing is that this set's buffs last only 5 seconds while typical rotations are based on 10 seconds intervals. Jabsplar can get a decent uptime with Backlash but that's before the execute phase. This set should buff for 10 seconds and reward people who can maintain a proper rotation. Since it's craftable and thus accessible for people who are only beginning to run trials, it would make a perfect rotation training aid and add more immediate positive feedback for people who begin to get their timing right.Edited by K9002 on August 4, 2021 2:25PM1 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stupid and annoying change. There are precious few crafted sets worth anything, and they had finally given us decent PVE one after the NMA debacle. Balance the thing to start with rather than taking stuff away afterwards. All you do is annoy the player-base.3 -
Phaedryn✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »100% they just can't fix that it pop double buff from skills like blastbones. So they decide just gut it
First, it's not "gutted". Second, it was never intended to work with LA, and the tool tip even states, clearly, that it procs off of skills.1 -
Phaedryn✭✭✭Stupid and annoying change. There are precious few crafted sets worth anything, and they had finally given us decent PVE one after the NMA debacle. Balance the thing to start with rather than taking stuff away afterwards. All you do is annoy the player-base.
Nothing was "taken away". It is being corrected to work exactly as the tool tip states, and as was intended.1 -
MonccSoul ShrivenStupid and annoying change. There are precious few crafted sets worth anything, and they had finally given us decent PVE one after the NMA debacle. Balance the thing to start with rather than taking stuff away afterwards. All you do is annoy the player-base.
Nothing was "taken away". It is being corrected to work exactly as the tool tip states, and as was intended.
Corrected after 2 months of Blackwood being out, + many weeks of PTS, during which the behaviour and strength of the set was well-known*
What could possibly justify to act so late on a set that isn't even overperforming, and after some of us wasted so much gold crafting jewelry because we had no hint that the current use of the set was displeasing some ZOS employees ?
But let's focus on the idea of doing "exactly as the tool tip states", since one buff is procced by skills with >7m range, and one by skills with <7m range, can you explain why some skills can proc both, and as far as we know won't be patched ? Can a number be strictly superior AND inferior to 7 ? And there are many more discrepencies with that set, so the "correct behaviour" *** doesn't hold.2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.
Little complicated than that. Mag player here. Lots of us in a discord server have already theorycrafted and tested this out, and it's really horrible. Really wanted this set to work but it won't anymore
Yes the reason front bar works so good is because it carries backbar. Here's a couple things:
* If you front-bar it, backbar skills won't proc it. Plar you have two skills proc it easily (wall and rune). Rune is to be used every 20-25s. Before that significant dps loss. You can try it yourself, you lose a lot of GCDs.
* Can't use wall since maelstrom inferno staff.
* Barrage works as well I believe, but you again lose significant dps. First you have to move it up and bring down a fighters guild skill which gave you free extra spell damage on your main damage bar. You also have to keep it on to make sure melee supremacy uptime stays up which means you need to have it run every 5 second for the uptime, which would mean you will lose lots of your GCD for a really weak hitting dot.
* Degen is a dps loss now thanks to change to PL, but even if you use it got problems, the same problems as barrage, lots of recast (it actually is worse since it becomes a sustain issue on top of losing GCDs). Magplar sustain is terrible this patch. Like really really horrible thanks to the nerf to the cp.
* You cannot depend on PL for melee supremacy because if you cast it before 6s it won't paste the copied damage onto the enemy, inducing an extremely significant dps loss. Actually this is a really problematic skill, the 6s forces you to play plar dynamic, which makes this entire thing even harder to maintain, since you have to dynamically maintain this entire thing like a nightblade for squeezing out dps unlike previous patch (PL is literally a weak bow proc right now damage wise (it's great! helped update plar dps a lot so we need to keep it up as much as we can)).
* Now comes the execute and again same problem, magplar without execute is kind of weak, it's during execute when our damage upshots. Now to keep ranged supremacy for plar, you will have to cast sweeps but since the beam is 2s gcd, with a PL cast you are maintaining, you will always lose 1 entire cast of beam every other rotation. That's about 180,000+ damage lost every other rotation.
Is this starting to sound like a headache? Because it is, and despite all this headache and keeping uptime as much as you can it's actually worse than just not caring about the uptime at all which is already long shot dps wise from bahsei/siroria at 93k ish as I mentioned in another post compared to bahsei/sir 106k.
I didn't parse a lot because of all that headache all that put in my mind, but even after 5-6 parses I was barely breaking 90k sometimes.
Now think about this from perspective of a new plar player. This set is essentially so much headache now you might as well just run soulshine (and get a nice 100k).
Honestly speaking, DV even before this pts version wasn't bis on plars. The highest we got last pts was 102k. There's already way easier ways to get that same damage (soulshine) or siroria for 106k. It was just a fun set, and I liked it because it was competitive. You have to crouch-weave to make it work with inferno on execute, but it was nice and fun.
If you want a massive constant damage set why not run CA? This set wasn't meant to give free 700~ damage all the time. That's why it's not supposed to work on LA's.
But hey, if you can convince them to roll back, more power to you.
Yea and I am asking them to make it work like that. I know it wasn't designed to be like that, everyone knows it didn't work for what it was designed to, no one has doubt about that.
Having multiple sets that can be used at the end-game is good for the game. For some work it provides good damage output, and lets people run different kind of sets, instead of just running the same sorrow/siroria combo. Gives end-game a variety where not everyone is running same cookie-cutter meta.
Someone in the thread said it rightly, they are not looking to play a bland boring game with balance. Different cool things make a game memorable. This is part of Bethesda (which is not ZoS but closely works with) games for years. It was a bug but it provided interesting gameplay, so why not keep it.
Not sure what you mean by run CA. Caluurion's Legacy? That's a terrible set. By all mean if ZoS wants to buff it and add even more variety to the game, I am sure everyone will gladly welcome it. Not even stat wise, even mechanics wise it's a literal cookie cutter parse and it'll automatically proc set.
Would be weird to run that when I am advocating for a set which had interesting mechanics to proc (crouch-weaving with plars for example).
As for me, I am done with this thread, hopefully zos looks at my points and decide on a course of action they seem fit.
CA = Clever Alchemist.
You can have 100% uptime of 800 damage if you run a couple potion cooldown glyphs. That's more damage than DV and it never goes down so long as you keep your pots up.
DV wasn't meant to have 100% up the via light attacks. Use CA.I drink and I stream things.0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Clever Alchemist is by almost any measure a terrible set for PvE DPS. To start with, the 2 and 3 piece bonuses are max health. The max set damage proc is not 800, it's 675, and by running potion cooldown glyphs you are directly giving up spell damage.4 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DV is still great as long as you're running ele weapon as spammable and it'll punish you for running an execute.
That's how i see it. It's a set that works really well with a specific build and outside of that it's questionable, which is fine by me.
In fact, more of this. I wish they would tweak scathing mage so that if you're running FP you'll have very high uptimes and less so with everything else. I love that you can lean into a build and get more out of it with the right sets, skills and CP.1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.
Little complicated than that. Mag player here. Lots of us in a discord server have already theorycrafted and tested this out, and it's really horrible. Really wanted this set to work but it won't anymore
Yes the reason front bar works so good is because it carries backbar. Here's a couple things:
* If you front-bar it, backbar skills won't proc it. Plar you have two skills proc it easily (wall and rune). Rune is to be used every 20-25s. Before that significant dps loss. You can try it yourself, you lose a lot of GCDs.
* Can't use wall since maelstrom inferno staff.
* Barrage works as well I believe, but you again lose significant dps. First you have to move it up and bring down a fighters guild skill which gave you free extra spell damage on your main damage bar. You also have to keep it on to make sure melee supremacy uptime stays up which means you need to have it run every 5 second for the uptime, which would mean you will lose lots of your GCD for a really weak hitting dot.
* Degen is a dps loss now thanks to change to PL, but even if you use it got problems, the same problems as barrage, lots of recast (it actually is worse since it becomes a sustain issue on top of losing GCDs). Magplar sustain is terrible this patch. Like really really horrible thanks to the nerf to the cp.
* You cannot depend on PL for melee supremacy because if you cast it before 6s it won't paste the copied damage onto the enemy, inducing an extremely significant dps loss. Actually this is a really problematic skill, the 6s forces you to play plar dynamic, which makes this entire thing even harder to maintain, since you have to dynamically maintain this entire thing like a nightblade for squeezing out dps unlike previous patch (PL is literally a weak bow proc right now damage wise (it's great! helped update plar dps a lot so we need to keep it up as much as we can)).
* Now comes the execute and again same problem, magplar without execute is kind of weak, it's during execute when our damage upshots. Now to keep ranged supremacy for plar, you will have to cast sweeps but since the beam is 2s gcd, with a PL cast you are maintaining, you will always lose 1 entire cast of beam every other rotation. That's about 180,000+ damage lost every other rotation.
Is this starting to sound like a headache? Because it is, and despite all this headache and keeping uptime as much as you can it's actually worse than just not caring about the uptime at all which is already long shot dps wise from bahsei/siroria at 93k ish as I mentioned in another post compared to bahsei/sir 106k.
I didn't parse a lot because of all that headache all that put in my mind, but even after 5-6 parses I was barely breaking 90k sometimes.
Now think about this from perspective of a new plar player. This set is essentially so much headache now you might as well just run soulshine (and get a nice 100k).
Honestly speaking, DV even before this pts version wasn't bis on plars. The highest we got last pts was 102k. There's already way easier ways to get that same damage (soulshine) or siroria for 106k. It was just a fun set, and I liked it because it was competitive. You have to crouch-weave to make it work with inferno on execute, but it was nice and fun.
If you want a massive constant damage set why not run CA? This set wasn't meant to give free 700~ damage all the time. That's why it's not supposed to work on LA's.
But hey, if you can convince them to roll back, more power to you.
Yea and I am asking them to make it work like that. I know it wasn't designed to be like that, everyone knows it didn't work for what it was designed to, no one has doubt about that.
Having multiple sets that can be used at the end-game is good for the game. For some work it provides good damage output, and lets people run different kind of sets, instead of just running the same sorrow/siroria combo. Gives end-game a variety where not everyone is running same cookie-cutter meta.
Someone in the thread said it rightly, they are not looking to play a bland boring game with balance. Different cool things make a game memorable. This is part of Bethesda (which is not ZoS but closely works with) games for years. It was a bug but it provided interesting gameplay, so why not keep it.
Not sure what you mean by run CA. Caluurion's Legacy? That's a terrible set. By all mean if ZoS wants to buff it and add even more variety to the game, I am sure everyone will gladly welcome it. Not even stat wise, even mechanics wise it's a literal cookie cutter parse and it'll automatically proc set.
Would be weird to run that when I am advocating for a set which had interesting mechanics to proc (crouch-weaving with plars for example).
As for me, I am done with this thread, hopefully zos looks at my points and decide on a course of action they seem fit.
CA = Clever Alchemist.
You can have 100% uptime of 800 damage if you run a couple potion cooldown glyphs. That's more damage than DV and it never goes down so long as you keep your pots up.
DV wasn't meant to have 100% up the via light attacks. Use CA.
lose 522 spell damage in jewellery enchants to spend twice as much in pots for 800 spell damage... umm. what? this build is worse than just running julianos.0 -
FlamingMeat✭✭✭It's so weird. Blastbones procs both so necro, arguably one of the strongest DPS classes, feels nothing with this change. Meanwhile other classes who were using it, that may not be the best for DPS but were being enabled by the set, get shafted. Another case of ZOS nerfing the people at the bottom while the top remains unchanged.2
-
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get that LA was a convenient way to proc it but everyone has access to range and melee skills, and they're going to be in your rotation anyway. That's the way it's intended to work.
It is cheese balls that Necro can proc both conditions with one skill.
I'd get the outrage is it was written to include LAs and now they're removing them. I'm are there are plenty of people who didn't even know they could have been using LAs this entire time.
You lose way too much damage unless you body it and you need to body bahsei which complements the set, so not really that great of an option. The uptimes at execute are sad. You could move wall up, but then you lose a couple of your execute skills + recast wall. At that point why even bother?
It went from like 103k on plar to like 94k. At that point, it's better to use medusa anyway (world first rockgrove groups have used it for everything even trash, plus you can stack fighters guild next patch up for massive spell damage boosts making it even better and kilt + Elemental Catalyst makes it a really really hot set in actual content). Meanwhile siroria/bahsei hits for like 106k. It'll be way worse on a plar player at the 80k dps range who can't do dynamic rotation for the pl burst.
Similar problem for other classes.
I mean sure it was intended to be like something, but if it's not super strong, no harm in keeping it anyway and saying we changed it to proc from these abilities which is what I'm asking for. Just keep it proccing.
Sure one can still use the set, and keep having fun, but it's also about being a team player. My team is great and will be fine with me having fun, but there's also the guilt of holding your team back to have fun while pushing scores. It's not hard to have both fun and good performance with the current status of the set.
As for necro players, lots of poor necro players can't even use it with state of endgame just putting support after support set on them (EC, mk kekw)...
Couple thoughts.
First it carries over so you can put it on your back or front bar.
Second on a templar you're running long and short range skills that will proc both conditions. It doesn't matter if your LA does because you're running degen and puncturing sweep if mag. If you're Stam you're probably running jabs and bow skills. On one bar you can proc both conditions with little effort.
Little complicated than that. Mag player here. Lots of us in a discord server have already theorycrafted and tested this out, and it's really horrible. Really wanted this set to work but it won't anymore
Yes the reason front bar works so good is because it carries backbar. Here's a couple things:
* If you front-bar it, backbar skills won't proc it. Plar you have two skills proc it easily (wall and rune). Rune is to be used every 20-25s. Before that significant dps loss. You can try it yourself, you lose a lot of GCDs.
* Can't use wall since maelstrom inferno staff.
* Barrage works as well I believe, but you again lose significant dps. First you have to move it up and bring down a fighters guild skill which gave you free extra spell damage on your main damage bar. You also have to keep it on to make sure melee supremacy uptime stays up which means you need to have it run every 5 second for the uptime, which would mean you will lose lots of your GCD for a really weak hitting dot.
* Degen is a dps loss now thanks to change to PL, but even if you use it got problems, the same problems as barrage, lots of recast (it actually is worse since it becomes a sustain issue on top of losing GCDs). Magplar sustain is terrible this patch. Like really really horrible thanks to the nerf to the cp.
* You cannot depend on PL for melee supremacy because if you cast it before 6s it won't paste the copied damage onto the enemy, inducing an extremely significant dps loss. Actually this is a really problematic skill, the 6s forces you to play plar dynamic, which makes this entire thing even harder to maintain, since you have to dynamically maintain this entire thing like a nightblade for squeezing out dps unlike previous patch (PL is literally a weak bow proc right now damage wise (it's great! helped update plar dps a lot so we need to keep it up as much as we can)).
* Now comes the execute and again same problem, magplar without execute is kind of weak, it's during execute when our damage upshots. Now to keep ranged supremacy for plar, you will have to cast sweeps but since the beam is 2s gcd, with a PL cast you are maintaining, you will always lose 1 entire cast of beam every other rotation. That's about 180,000+ damage lost every other rotation.
Is this starting to sound like a headache? Because it is, and despite all this headache and keeping uptime as much as you can it's actually worse than just not caring about the uptime at all which is already long shot dps wise from bahsei/siroria at 93k ish as I mentioned in another post compared to bahsei/sir 106k.
I didn't parse a lot because of all that headache all that put in my mind, but even after 5-6 parses I was barely breaking 90k sometimes.
Now think about this from perspective of a new plar player. This set is essentially so much headache now you might as well just run soulshine (and get a nice 100k).
Honestly speaking, DV even before this pts version wasn't bis on plars. The highest we got last pts was 102k. There's already way easier ways to get that same damage (soulshine) or siroria for 106k. It was just a fun set, and I liked it because it was competitive. You have to crouch-weave to make it work with inferno on execute, but it was nice and fun.
If you want a massive constant damage set why not run CA? This set wasn't meant to give free 700~ damage all the time. That's why it's not supposed to work on LA's.
But hey, if you can convince them to roll back, more power to you.
Yea and I am asking them to make it work like that. I know it wasn't designed to be like that, everyone knows it didn't work for what it was designed to, no one has doubt about that.
Having multiple sets that can be used at the end-game is good for the game. For some work it provides good damage output, and lets people run different kind of sets, instead of just running the same sorrow/siroria combo. Gives end-game a variety where not everyone is running same cookie-cutter meta.
Someone in the thread said it rightly, they are not looking to play a bland boring game with balance. Different cool things make a game memorable. This is part of Bethesda (which is not ZoS but closely works with) games for years. It was a bug but it provided interesting gameplay, so why not keep it.
Not sure what you mean by run CA. Caluurion's Legacy? That's a terrible set. By all mean if ZoS wants to buff it and add even more variety to the game, I am sure everyone will gladly welcome it. Not even stat wise, even mechanics wise it's a literal cookie cutter parse and it'll automatically proc set.
Would be weird to run that when I am advocating for a set which had interesting mechanics to proc (crouch-weaving with plars for example).
As for me, I am done with this thread, hopefully zos looks at my points and decide on a course of action they seem fit.
CA = Clever Alchemist.
You can have 100% uptime of 800 damage if you run a couple potion cooldown glyphs. That's more damage than DV and it never goes down so long as you keep your pots up.
DV wasn't meant to have 100% up the via light attacks. Use CA.
lose 522 spell damage in jewellery enchants to spend twice as much in pots for 800 spell damage... umm. what? this build is worse than just running julianos.
I think it’s even worse than that. You’d have to give up all 3 jewelry glyphs and use infused trait on them. So you’re also giving up 3 bloodthirsty.
Even if comparing apples to apples with infused, that means giving up 522 x 1.6 = 834 Weapon or Spell Damage plus another 5pc set, to gain 804 Weapon or Spell Damage from CA
3 -
Bl4ckR3alm93✭✭✭For Stamplars, StamDK , or HybridDK, they can use the Deadly Strike Set that now gives 18% on all Damage Over Time with Relequan instead of Diamonds VictoryEdited by Bl4ckR3alm93 on August 5, 2021 5:21AM1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingMeat wrote: »It's so weird. Blastbones procs both so necro, arguably one of the strongest DPS classes, feels nothing with this change. Meanwhile other classes who were using it, that may not be the best for DPS but were being enabled by the set, get shafted. Another case of ZOS nerfing the people at the bottom while the top remains unchanged.
Blastbones is the most unreliable skill in the game. Doesn’t work in content anywhere near how it works on the dummy. I find myself often casting 3 skills in between and in a mobile fight you better learn to tab target and keep your crosshairs somewhere in the general vicinity of the target.
Outside of that DV isn’t all that strong to be honest unless you pair it with Bahsei. Come to think of it nearly every set is stronger along side Bahsei. Don’t believe me, go slap on perf Siroria and perf Bahsei and compare the numbers side by side. Despite the redundant minor slayer bonus Siroria will come out dead even if not slightly ahead compared to DV. Now throw on Medusa and Bahsei and you’ll be just slightly under those numbers. Bahsei and sorrow, nearly same result within a few K of the top end number. Or pair any of those sets with Siroria instead of Bahsei and you’ll still be in the same ballpark.
It’s almost like the sets have nothing to do with any of this and a solid rotation is the number 1 source of damage. The game has not changed because of a single set or how it procs.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭kringled_1 wrote: »Clever Alchemist is by almost any measure a terrible set for PvE DPS. To start with, the 2 and 3 piece bonuses are max health. The max set damage proc is not 800, it's 675, and by running potion cooldown glyphs you are directly giving up spell damage.
675 is the 5 piece. 129 is the 4 piece.
I never said run potion glyphs. I said you could if you're obsessed with 100% uptime.
So basically everyone is mad they're taking away a set that was cheesed to get obscene dummy DPS output.
Well, I'm sorry. Don't know what to tell you. That's not the intended purpose.I drink and I stream things.0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »kringled_1 wrote: »Clever Alchemist is by almost any measure a terrible set for PvE DPS. To start with, the 2 and 3 piece bonuses are max health. The max set damage proc is not 800, it's 675, and by running potion cooldown glyphs you are directly giving up spell damage.
675 is the 5 piece. 129 is the 4 piece.
I never said run potion glyphs. I said you could if you're obsessed with 100% uptime.
So basically everyone is mad they're taking away a set that was cheesed to get obscene dummy DPS output.
Well, I'm sorry. Don't know what to tell you. That's not the intended purpose.
You know we're running it in content right?
Here is my range supremacy uptime on Bahsei
it's not a dummy cheese set, it's a legit set we use in content.Edited by Tannus15 on August 5, 2021 9:29PM1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The new changes not only kills DV, but just feels like: "Oh how dare our players get creative, and use a set how it isn't supposed to", isn't the point of the game for players to have fun? Who cares if it's a little broken and doesn't work as implemented, at the end of the day it should be about players enjoying the game. It's not like people aren't grinding new content released for bahsei mania, and so people won't play the new content you released. I get it you want people to stay in the game and grind more because it's a MMO, but punishing players for having fun is gonna do opposite of that.
You must not have been around when they nerfed a workaround that players had been using for years in Direfrost Keep to solo the dungeon. They didn't care if it was fun, or that players had to work extra hard to solo the dungeon and thus stayed logged in longer. All that mattered to them was that it wasn't "working as intended," so they absolutely had to sacrifice the player experience to be "right."
2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new changes not only kills DV, but just feels like: "Oh how dare our players get creative, and use a set how it isn't supposed to", isn't the point of the game for players to have fun? Who cares if it's a little broken and doesn't work as implemented, at the end of the day it should be about players enjoying the game. It's not like people aren't grinding new content released for bahsei mania, and so people won't play the new content you released. I get it you want people to stay in the game and grind more because it's a MMO, but punishing players for having fun is gonna do opposite of that.
You must not have been around when they nerfed a workaround that players had been using for years in Direfrost Keep to solo the dungeon. They didn't care if it was fun, or that players had to work extra hard to solo the dungeon and thus stayed logged in longer. All that mattered to them was that it wasn't "working as intended," so they absolutely had to sacrifice the player experience to be "right."
Or how players used to be able to skip the calendar room in Mazz.
Or all the ways people figured out how to sneak into keeps in Cyro.
Fun police!I drink and I stream things.2 -
cro25519✭✭✭I got a day off from work so i am back pog!
And yes people having fun killing animated monsters in a video game fast, same as people in pvp sneaking inside keeps in cryo and griefing real humans.
Totally makes sense. I agree.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭I got a day off from work so i am back pog!
And yes people having fun killing animated monsters in a video game fast, same as people in pvp sneaking inside keeps in cryo and griefing real humans.
Totally makes sense. I agree.
It's not about the animated monsters. Every MMO developer keeps a predictable line of damage output. They went things to take a certain amount of time.
I doubt ZOS ever intended anyone to hit 100k on a dummy but that's where we are. Any attempts to walk that back cause uproars but like it or not, it's necessary.I drink and I stream things.0 -
cro25519✭✭✭I was talking about you using pvp as an example because it made no sense to what was being discussed.
For other points:
The trials are balanced around the DPS we do in content. It doesn't matter if they intended us to do 100k, the trials will be balanced around that damage mark. This has been mentioned by the trial team in the past in their streams. Look up how many teams have completed planesbreaker (just two and half of them are same players) or even Hardmode Rockgrove for example (there's maybe 20-30 in the entire game according to the leaderboard scores and literally half of them are same people in different teams).
In fact, the current trial is literally the opposite of damage push, if you push bahsei too hard, you will have enough colossus to rip your tank apart in 2 in 10 seconds. Each dps would have to do like 250k dps (which is impossible) (health/1 min mark (and i am overcompensating)) to bypass that kind of thing. So the newer designs are anti-burn. You have fought bahsei before, so you probably agree with this.
As for previous content, zos has intentionally nerfed them in the past so more and more player do them despite the 100k dps we are doing in dummy, because while the super endgame groups can do those trials, a vast majority still finds halls of fabrication hard despite it being nerfed to oblivion, or sunspire being so hard despite the massive damage we have right now. Even SO got nerfed because of the troll boss bug where an entire mechanic was removed this pts.
As for predictable damage output, the set isn't overpowered, it's doing the same if not less damage than already existing damage than the currently existing sets, it just added more sets that could be used in the game, so the talk about them needing to provide a predictable line of output makes no sense, because other sets already do better as someone in the thread just parsed i believe a couple messages ago (Bahsei/Medusa because Elemental Catalyst or the legendary bahsei/siroria combo)...
It was just another variety set that was added to the endgame. Which mean there was more than just bahsei/siroria or sorrow/siroria to wear. I am not sure what's the problem here.
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Also just a disclaimer to anyone who reads this, please don't take anything said by me in this thread as personal, it's just a set in video game that we are discussing after all, and I am only trying to discuss the points being made, I know it's extremely easy for things to get heated.Edited by cro25519 on August 6, 2021 12:09AM2 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was talking about you using pvp as an example because it made no sense to what was being discussed.
For other points:
The trials are balanced around the DPS we do in content. It doesn't matter if they intended us to do 100k, the trials will be balanced around that damage mark. This has been mentioned by the trial team in the past in their streams. Look up how many teams have completed planesbreaker (just two and half of them are same players) or even Hardmode Rockgrove for example (there's maybe 20-30 in the entire game according to the leaderboard scores and literally half of them are same people in different teams).
In fact, the current trial is literally the opposite of damage push, if you push bahsei too hard, you will have enough colossus to rip your tank apart in 2 in 10 seconds. Each dps would have to do like 250k dps (which is impossible) (health/1 min mark (and i am overcompensating)) to bypass that kind of thing. So the newer designs are anti-burn. You have fought bahsei before, so you probably agree with this.
As for previous content, zos has intentionally nerfed them in the past so more and more player do them despite the 100k dps we are doing in dummy, because while the super endgame groups can do those trials, a vast majority still finds halls of fabrication hard despite it being nerfed to oblivion, or sunspire being so hard despite the massive damage we have right now. Even SO got nerfed because of the troll boss bug where an entire mechanic was removed this pts.
As for predictable damage output, the set isn't overpowered, it's doing the same if not less damage than already existing damage than the currently existing sets, it just added more sets that could be used in the game, so the talk about them needing to provide a predictable line of output makes no sense, because other sets already do better as someone in the thread just parsed i believe a couple messages ago (Bahsei/Medusa because Elemental Catalyst or the legendary bahsei/siroria combo)...
It was just another variety set that was added to the endgame. Which mean there was more than just bahsei/siroria or sorrow/siroria to wear. I am not sure what's the problem here.
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Also just a disclaimer to anyone who reads this, please don't take anything said by me in this thread as personal, it's just a set in video game that we are discussing after all, and I am only trying to discuss the points being made, I know it's extremely easy for things to get heated.
Absolutely on point regarding the balancing of content going forward. I hope they find other ways to creatively keep us from ripping through content with our over tuned DPS other than mini boss or add mechs. The new dungeon on PTS not withstanding, that’s a great example of something way out of the box that I love seeing!
The Bahsei fight from vRG for sure it’s one of the most anti burn fights I have seen. My group has been pushing 2 colossus at once to open more of the map for execute, but the RNG where they pop up can really throw a wrench in the plan if they happen to spawn at opposite corners. We have had the center of the map filled with fire before with only a small hallway to operate during execute and still managed to 1 bang it for the lolz!
Ash titan mini is also quite punishing because everything in the fight will 1 shot you. Yes it can be cheesed but non vampire groups need to full stop DPS and deal with meteor phases, whether that’s by topping off health and self shielding or have a barrier rotation going.
Only final boss is really made easier with big DPS because it rips through shield phase and phantom phase with relative ease.
But this is a thread about DV isn’t it? Anyway the set in any form is fine. Wear it if you want or don’t. It’s not requisite for endgame gameplay. It just the new hotness right now until the next OP set comes along, gets rebalanced and the complaints begin to flow.1
