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PSA: taking spindleclutch II's final boss to the top entrance does literally nothing
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lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this just a PC thing? I've never seen it on playstation and never failed to get HM!PS4 EU0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Like I said on another thread, it's an old habit from like 6 years ago that's people still do.
I think people did it once upon a time to stop the sacrifices getting hit accidentally with AOEs and such.
It's not necessary, but doesn't really change the fight either way so it's equally not a big deal.
On a similar note, I wish they'd add scrolls for the dungeons without.
Like for that fight, it makes the sacrifices invisible. It's not an issue with that dungeon, but pugs ruin other pledges.
Engine guardian - people pull levers for some reason. I don't even know what they do, apart from losing a key. Read the scroll so it disables them.
Fungal grotto 2 - Pugs have run in the husk, losing a key. Read the scroll , husk doesn't spawn.
Not a major deal, but I've lost keys before in these dungeons as a result. In which case I coulda done it on normal in 5 minutes.Edited by Brrrofski on July 30, 2021 10:14AM5 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭
PC EU here. I've seen both this and taking the boss to the "side area" near the ramp up to the door.
And in both cases it's outright bizarre. If you keep the boss where it spawns and everyone stacks up neatly, the boss won't jump around in a large area and you won't ever touch the captives with AoEs. At the same time, you'll be maximising the DPS rather than dragging the boss to an obscure area of the room and outside of people's AoEs. But PUGs will be PUGs. You're always going to have that one tank who drags the boss away, you're always going to have that one DD who pew-pews from 56 million miles away and causes the boss to jump, etc. It's just luck of the draw who you get when queuing for a dungeon without a pre-made group. Region and platform means very little, I think.@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics1 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭The3sFinest wrote: »I just love the second boss of that dungeon, keep beating away on Praxin while I take out these little pointless adds that keep popping up.
Hahaha, that is the funniest thing... The people the demand you to bring the boss up the most are usually the ones that keep hitting the invincible boss there and leave the adds for the tank.
That dungeon would be very frustrating if it weren't one of the easiest vet HM in the game.2 -
six2fall✭✭✭✭I prefer up top since pugs tend to spread out too much so when he teleports up top there is much less room so he tends to stay in aoe.2 -
caesarvs✭✭✭✭Whatever. I, be it tanking it or dps'ing it, tend to stay on top (old habits xD). It takes less than 10 seconds to bring boss up (if I tank) or for me to go down (if dps). I just follow the pug, if someone goes telling about boss position on chat, I just follow them. Takes more time to argue/explain. Not a big deal and no reason to get angry about this.4
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MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭Sometimes it takes half a minute for pug tanks to drag him up, it just accomplishes nothing.
A couple weeks ago I got placed with a high CP fake tank. With no taunt slotted they couldn’t successfully bring the boss up the ramp because I wouldn’t stop dpsing from near the spawn point. The fake healer and fake tank thought we would ruin hard mode, and just stood by the entrance while the other dps and I took the boss down near the spawn point. As I think back on it I doubt it did much good for the community showing role fakers the ramp trick isn’t necessary.0 -
EnerG✭✭✭✭✭As a tank I'll explain the reasoning, bringing to the top does 2 things, makes it so he only sucks blood from the two victims within his reach instead of all of them at once, and secondly makes it easier to tank and spank, smaller area boss doesnt move as much with his teleport ability so hes still always in aoe range.
Hope this helps! Good luck on your SC2 speedruns!4 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »It's spindleclutch II pledge day, so I need to say this.
No he doesn't stop healing when he's on top.
No it doesn't make hm easier when he's on top, the captives are tanky [snip] it's literally impossible to kill them.
In fact killing the boss on top makes things harder, because blood pool's in the way and you are stuck in a tiny corner of the room.
So. Stop. Telling. Me. To. Take. Boss. To. The. Top.
It does literally nothing, yes, nothing. Killing the boss up top or killing the boss where he spawns makes absolutely, zero, difference. ZERO. 0.
Together we can let this myth die. Spread the word.
[edited for profanity bypass]
Yep. 100% agree. When I Tank this dungeon I never go up there. I stay near the fire. Many times the Group Chat gets excited because I won't go up to the door. I tell them to just kill him and not worry about the door. This old maid myth has been around since the dungeon was created.0 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Don't people do it up there to make it easier to not accidentally kill the sacrifices for hard mode?
Nah, it makes zero difference where the boss is. And let me ask you this: It's ALWAYS hard mode. Have you ever seen this boss kill a sacrifice? I have run that dungeon hundreds of times in Vet and I've never seen a sacrifice die. Never.
I have PUGGED it more times than I can remember (Vet of course) and never take the boss to the door. It's just silly. But alas, have you ever seen this boss kill a sacrifice? I've never seen it happen. I guess it's possible but even with 15K DPS group damage PUG runs I've not seen it.0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭Whatever. I, be it tanking it or dps'ing it, tend to stay on top (old habits xD). It takes less than 10 seconds to bring boss up (if I tank) or for me to go down (if dps). I just follow the pug, if someone goes telling about boss position on chat, I just follow them. Takes more time to argue/explain. Not a big deal and no reason to get angry about this.
Exactly. I used to try to explain. Sometimes I used to even offer to the people asking to TRY to kill the sacrifices.
Then I realized that I could be halfway through the OTHER pledge with the time spent explaining, specially considering that it didn't do anything anyway since a lot of the times people would flat out refuse to go down and fight.
1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Don't people do it up there to make it easier to not accidentally kill the sacrifices for hard mode?
Nah, it makes zero difference where the boss is. And let me ask you this: It's ALWAYS hard mode. Have you ever seen this boss kill a sacrifice? I have run that dungeon hundreds of times in Vet and I've never seen a sacrifice die. Never.
I have PUGGED it more times than I can remember (Vet of course) and never take the boss to the door. It's just silly. But alas, have you ever seen this boss kill a sacrifice? I've never seen it happen. I guess it's possible but even with 15K DPS group damage PUG runs I've not seen it.
I feel like I probably did years ago, considering how many years I've been mindlessly doing that strategy but at this point it's been too long to remember.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Don't people do it up there to make it easier to not accidentally kill the sacrifices for hard mode?
Nah, it makes zero difference where the boss is. And let me ask you this: It's ALWAYS hard mode. Have you ever seen this boss kill a sacrifice? I have run that dungeon hundreds of times in Vet and I've never seen a sacrifice die. Never.
I have PUGGED it more times than I can remember (Vet of course) and never take the boss to the door. It's just silly. But alas, have you ever seen this boss kill a sacrifice? I've never seen it happen. I guess it's possible but even with 15K DPS group damage PUG runs I've not seen it.
The boss doesn't kill the sacrifices. Players can kill the sacrifices to make him easier to kill, since he can't heal then. It's the players' behaviour that determines hard mode, not the bosses.
I've always had him slightly up the ramp if doing vet, because it forces the group to stay closer together. If you are in the big room, someone will always back away from him if they are ranged.On a similar note, I wish they'd add scrolls for the dungeons without.
Like for that fight, it makes the sacrifices invisible. It's not an issue with that dungeon, but pugs ruin other pledges.
Engine guardian - people pull levers for some reason. I don't even know what they do, apart from losing a key. Read the scroll so it disables them.
Fungal grotto 2 - Pugs have run in the husk, losing a key. Read the scroll , husk doesn't spawn.
Not a major deal, but I've lost keys before in these dungeons as a result. In which case I coulda done it on normal in 5 minutes.
I honestly wish it was the opposite and in dungeons where there is a scroll there would be actual mechanics you need to follow.The Moot Councillor1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The boss doesn't kill the sacrifices. Players can kill the sacrifices to make him easier to kill, since he can't heal then. It's the players' behaviour that determines hard mode, not the bosses.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he used to kill them?
Like I feel the way that it worked back then is he would drain the sacrifices to heal. And if he drained them enough times, they died. The easy way was to kill the sacrifices yourself so he couldn't heal. The hard mode is to kill him without letting any die.
So you had to avoid killing them yourself while still having enough damage output to kill him quickly through the self healing.
And people cheesed this by going up the ramp so they both didn't have to worry about accidentally killing them (high damage groups) or making the hard mode impossible because the dps was too low to kill him through all that healing and stop him from draining a sacrifice. I believe pulling him up there caused him to skip some drains as he didn't have LOS of the sacrifices. Thus lowering the dps output needed and also making it easier to avoid killing sacrifices.
So the hard mode was supposed to be rewarding saving the sacrifices even though it made the fight harder. But it never ended up that way in practice because people just cheesed it.
I feel like that is how it worked but I may be remembering something wrong.Edited by spartaxoxo on July 30, 2021 2:19PM2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Iceman_mat wrote: »Aside from older mechanics that don't apply anymore, it is also to keep his jump around mechanic to a small radius.
He still heals but when he jumps, it makes it easier to focus him and stack synergies.
-cheers
That is plain wrong. He jumps around to all group members, so if they are stacked on him, regardless of where he is, he will jump in place.
When I tank this fight, I still drag to the top by the door. Mostly because if I am in a PUG it is easier to force the DPS to group up by repositioning the boss than having them scattered to the wind down below and the boss jumping all over the place.3 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The3sFinest wrote: »I just love the second boss of that dungeon, keep beating away on Praxin while I take out these little pointless adds that keep popping up.
Plus Praxin also cheats at cards[snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 31, 2021 4:33PM4 -
Its_MySniff✭✭✭Out of the many times I've tanked it, I've only had one person say anything about going to that spot. I thought they were refusing to fight, so I took the boss to them. Doh! Anyway, I didn't find it helpful. Most groups I've been in do fine, pugs of course. Now, the VBC2 corner cheese helps with new players, low skilled or whatever, I'd rather jus fight the boss tho. Cheers.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »The boss doesn't kill the sacrifices. Players can kill the sacrifices to make him easier to kill, since he can't heal then. It's the players' behaviour that determines hard mode, not the bosses.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he used to kill them?
Like I feel the way that it worked back then is he would drain the sacrifices to heal. And if he drained them enough times, they died. The easy way was to kill the sacrifices yourself so he couldn't heal. The hard mode is to kill him without letting any die.
So you had to avoid killing them yourself while still having enough damage output to kill him quickly through the self healing.
And people cheesed this by going up the ramp so they both didn't have to worry about accidentally killing them (high damage groups) or making the hard mode impossible because the dps was too low to kill him through all that healing and stop him from draining a sacrifice. I believe pulling him up there caused him to skip some drains as he didn't have LOS of the sacrifices. Thus lowering the dps output needed and also making it easier to avoid killing sacrifices.
So the hard mode was supposed to be rewarding saving the sacrifices even though it made the fight harder. But it never ended up that way in practice because people just cheesed it.
I feel like that is how it worked but I may be remembering something wrong.
That's a good question. I ran that several times when it was just "Vet Spindle", and even when we didn't have a lot of DPS, I don't remember the sacrifices ever dying. What would happen was that the boss would heal more than we damaged him, making the fight longer and more error-prone.The Moot Councillor0 -
Kingpindragon✭✭✭This is such an old dungeon. As a Tank that pugs alot, I didn't know any situation that any group struggled on that last boss. He is so weak and boring. I literally fall asleep on it (as dps, tank or heals) and still beat it with no death or damage to the group.
Full disclosure, it is my least fav pledge because the fights are long and boring. Except ghost boss, that is a fun fight to watch in pugs.
If someone complained about where he was being pulled, i'd probably ignore it because that fight is not worth any additional thought or energy. It is the equivalent of watching water boil on a stove.Edited by Kingpindragon on July 30, 2021 8:33PM0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭Its_MySniff wrote: »Out of the many times I've tanked it, I've only had one person say anything about going to that spot. I thought they were refusing to fight, so I took the boss to them. Doh! Anyway, I didn't find it helpful. Most groups I've been in do fine, pugs of course. Now, the VBC2 corner cheese helps with new players, low skilled or whatever, I'd rather jus fight the boss tho. Cheers.
Do you mean pulling the big deadroth to the fire?
I used to no do that, but with low DPS pugs that fight can take several minutes. Pulling him into to fire cuts the fight time in half or more with low DPS groups. That is one tanking strategy, specially vet PUG tanking, that I think is 100% worth it, if that is the one you are talking about.0 -
FatelessLava✭✭✭
Do you mean pulling the big deadroth to the fire?
I used to no do that, but with low DPS pugs that fight can take several minutes. Pulling him into to fire cuts the fight time in half or more with low DPS groups. That is one tanking strategy, specially vet PUG tanking, that I think is 100% worth it, if that is the one you are talking about.
They mean on the last boss, if you pull him to the corner close to the entrance ramp I think it is, the adds that spawn will not leave the circle, meaning tank doesn’t have to deal with 5 daedrorths when the boss still has 90% damage because dps is really low, even to cleave. It sucks if you’re melee but it beats the adds wrecking everything.
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Its_MySniff✭✭✭The one on vbc2 I mentioned is a hard pull, back way into the corner, back wall facing boss spawn. Daedroth never spawn and you cheese that last boss. The spindle 2 is just backing up to the door. Never do it, just smash it. Both are not so bad if you run them often and know the dungeons. Sorry about the brief hijack. Cheers0
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yea, I have not been around long but I did figure out quickly that bringing the boss to the top does nothing.Iceman_mat wrote: »Aside from older mechanics that don't apply anymore, it is also to keep his jump around mechanic to a small radius.
He still heals but when he jumps, it makes it easier to focus him and stack synergies.
-cheers
Players can stack together anywhere in the room to focus him and stack synergies. There is no need to drag the boss up the ramp.0 -
hcbigdogdoghc✭✭✭✭✭Man this thread was a disaster.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/ou8bgk/psa_taking_spindleclutch_iis_final_boss_to_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I guess according to our reddit overlords we have to pull boss up top for the 2 following reasons:
1. Prevent high dps players and idiot dps players from killing tbe captives.......somehow. (Although it's near impossible to begin with)
2. Force bad dps players to stack because the room up top is smaller. But weird I still have people standing 30 feet away light attacking when I pull the boss up there.
Case closed guys. The reddit overlords has spoken. If you complain I guess you are too petty....oh and use a range taunt guys.1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One of the reasons eso Reddit is a meme, able players are mostly on discord or even forums at the very least.1 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭FatelessLava wrote: »
Do you mean pulling the big deadroth to the fire?
I used to no do that, but with low DPS pugs that fight can take several minutes. Pulling him into to fire cuts the fight time in half or more with low DPS groups. That is one tanking strategy, specially vet PUG tanking, that I think is 100% worth it, if that is the one you are talking about.
They mean on the last boss, if you pull him to the corner close to the entrance ramp I think it is, the adds that spawn will not leave the circle, meaning tank doesn’t have to deal with 5 daedrorths when the boss still has 90% damage because dps is really low, even to cleave. It sucks if you’re melee but it beats the adds wrecking everything.
Oh wow, 5 years+ playing and I've never seen or heard of that one (and never been asked as a tank).
Good to know. Some PUGs really cannot complete that dungeon at all.1 -
ibkickin✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »PUG tanking is literally where dreams goes to die.
-If you rush and makes Big trash piles people seem to be 40km behind dragging a**.
-If you go at a normal pace someone always see it as an invitation to run ahead of you and pull.
YES!! Oh my god! Someone finally said it! lol
Strength on it's own is directionless, Thirst for battle is helpless, Only when the two join is a mighty warrior born.0 -
Icy_Waffles✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s seen as common knowledge but it’s just outdated. That used to work as one patch broke it early on but after being fixed has not been a thing.
It drives me nuts. And honestly… if you’re so worried your dps isn’t high enough to get the hard mode… maybe try normal until you get that dps up with practice.
Fully support this post.1