Zos wants to delete NB

BalticBlues · July 2021

Last MidYear Mayhem, probably 90% of kills came from cheesy NB bombers,
without any chance for people to respond, no matter which class, skills or armor people are using.
Most players probably would be happy if NB Bombers would be deleted from the game.

Next patch, cloak will even be stronger. Patch note quotes:
"The only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals"
What about Caltrops? Do these count as AoE "Direct Damage"? If not even Caltrops can reveal NBs anymore, I will leave PvP.

"Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility."
What does this mean? I'm always using Detection potions to hunt NBs if I smell them, because these work better than Detection skills.
If Detection potions will no longer strip Invisibility, what is their purpose?

Currently, NB bombers are just OP. If next patch NBs even will be god mode again -starting and ending fights at will-, as in the first years of ESO PvP, I am out. This kind of cheesy gameplay was bad enough for many early years, I really have no desire to return there.

Fhritz · July 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Last MidYear Mayhem, probably 90% of kills came from cheesy NB bombers,
without any chance for people to respond, no matter which class, skills or armor people are using.
Most players probably would be happy if NB Bombers would be deleted from the game.

Next patch, cloak will even be stronger, and regarding damage only direct damage can reveal NBs.
What about Caltrops? These are AoE. If not even Caltrops can reveal NBs anymore, I will leave PvP.

Man, do you know how to block ? 90% of the time with a build with ~15k armor i can literally survive against a bomber. Just keep your distance and block when you are in a point and that's it. I think it's just a L2P issue, because bomber are FAR LESS annoying than 1 shot sorc or even any unkillable tank who deal an absurd amount of damage.

Caltrops will not reveal nb anymore, but there's a lot of other skill that can reveal them like.... detect skill, or direct AoE skill.

BalticBlues · July 2021

Fhritz wrote: »

it's just a L2P issue.

Whenever I read this, the cheese smells strong.

Fhritz wrote: »

Man, do you know how to block? [...]Just keep your distance and block when you are in a point and that's it.

LoL. As I people (can or would like to) stand in permablock all the time. For example, you are taking a resource, I'm playing mostly solo, fighting honest fights, and suddenly -boom- you are dead. This kind of cheese sucks the fun out of the game.

Fhritz wrote: »

bomber are FAR LESS annoying than 1 shot sorc or even any unkillable tank who deal an absurd amount of damage

Please share your fantasy Sorc/Tank builds, because I play all classes and would love to see these.
Or just stop telling people fairytales. Playing all Classes and a Mag bomber myself,
I now how to use all the cheese, and the NB Bomber cheese smells worst doing it myself.

Fhritz wrote: »

Caltrops will not reveal nb anymore, but there's a lot of other skill.

If Caltrops will not reveal NBs anymore, I am out.
People should not be forced to change all builds only to fight a new NB SUPERCHEESE.

thegreatme · July 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Last MidYear Mayhem, probably 90% of kills came from cheesy NB bombers,
without any chance for people to respond, no matter which class, skills or armor people are using.

Then don't stack on chests and dead bosses with 20 other people? I'm not even a PvP regular and I can tell you that much.

Also we must be playing totally separate games because there were a lot more bombers besides NB during Midyear.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Most players probably would be happy if NB Bombers would be deleted from the game.

I know I'll be happy when unkillable Sorcs, werewolves, stunlock-heal-dps Templars, and Dizzy Swing DKs are deleted from the game. Especially the ones that like to KoS NBs who are just using Cloak to avoid them and go about their business.

Also pretty sure NB isn't the only class that can stealth in PvP. Stealth and Cloak are not mutually exclusive, so from the sound of things NB isn't the only class that's going to benefit from the stealth changes. You can sneak as literally any other class.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal.

How is this not a NB nerf?

BalticBlues · July 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal. How is this not a NB nerf?

So NB Invisibiilty get so much better with the next Update that
everybody will need to sacrifice a slot to survive the NB SUPERCHEESE.
This really is showing how Invisibility, Bombing and PvP Development is getting out of control.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal. How is this not a NB nerf?

So everybody needs to sacrifice an extra skill now to survive the NB SUPERCHEESE?
This really is showing that Bombing and the Development of this game completely got out of control.

Yes. Just like how people have to slot skills to counter other playstyles. That's the way the game works. If not, we'd all just run 10 damage skills. For example healers are expected to run cleanses and siege shields. I assure you there's nothing fun about purging over and over between radiants and siege shields.

There's a whole contingent of players that want tankiness just so they don't have to run a heal. Oh the horror.

universal_wrath · July 2021

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

ZOS buffs stealth and makes abilities designed to counter stealth more useful. They also allow certain abilities that couldn't be used in stealth to now work without kicking you out. This means stealth is now stronger and requires more effort from people to pull you out of it.

Then OP says all these stealth buffs and counter plays is a nerf.... sigh

Tbh. They "fixed" bugs that were causing cloak to be unreliable and being interrupted by thing that were not supposed to...

...and...

At the same time they buffed stealth counters by 20 - 30%

So by fixing bugs, stealth will be OP all of the sudden that it needs yet more counters ? I doubt it. I remember playing ESO before Elsweyr (the update in which they broke invisibility & stealth) and it was fine. No one complained about it back then.

It kinda feels wrong that "fixing a bug" = lets rebalance some stuff so that the bug fix won't be as noticeable...

I mean, I don't think we should count fixing bugs as "buffs". So that is why NBs see this mostly as a nerf. Because counters will be stronger.

I thimk it is about time that counters work as intended. Evem with bugs that break cloak right now, most PvPers would agree that nightblade is strongest and most annoying classes to fight, specifically stamblade. High mobility, high damage, and high cloak uptime up to almost 90% that it became the only viable glass canon class with almost no draw backs. Don't forget that most nightblades have back up plan for claok which is shade.

universal_wrath · July 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Last MidYear Mayhem, probably 90% of kills came from cheesy NB bombers,
without any chance for people to respond, no matter which class, skills or armor people are using.
Most players probably would be happy if NB Bombers would be deleted from the game.

Next patch, cloak will even be stronger. Patch note quotes:
"The only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals"
What about Caltrops? Do these count as AoE "Direct Damage"? If not even Caltrops can reveal NBs anymore, I will leave PvP.

"Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility."
What does this mean? I'm always using Detection potions to hunt NBs if I smell them, because these work better than Detection skills.
If Detection potions will no longer strip Invisibility, what is their purpose?

Currently, NB bombers are just OP. If next patch NBs even will be god mode again -starting and ending fights at will-, as in the first years of ESO PvP, I am out. This kind of cheesy gameplay was bad enough for many early years, I really have no desire to return there.

The part about the detect pots might mean that they only become visible to you. You attack them whipe they still stealth but even after you hit them they don't break stealth and nobody can see them beside you. That would be broken if it actualy happens.

Zodiarkslayer · July 2021

JamieAubrey wrote: »

I'm all for deleting NBs

BOOOOOOH!

DARKSTER1 · July 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal.

How is this not a NB nerf?

Major prophecy already existed before... It's nothing new.... They just fix your bugs. Making you stronger than ever and make your freaking counters a bit stronger by increasing it's range to something that isn't 1 breath away distance. Simple as that. it's a buff not a nerf

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

DARKSTER1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal.

How is this not a NB nerf?

Major prophecy already existed before... It's nothing new.... They just fix your bugs. Making you stronger than ever and make your freaking counters a bit stronger by increasing it's range to something that isn't 1 breath away distance. Simple as that. it's a buff not a nerf

Major protection. Giving people free major protection for slotting flare IS a nerf to NB damage. Oh you still don't want to slot revealing? That's okay. We're adding a new CP star that gives it to you after breaking free.

Joy_Division · July 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal. How is this not a NB nerf?

So NB Invisibiilty get so much better with the next Update that
everybody will need to sacrifice a slot to survive the NB SUPERCHEESE.
This really is showing how Invisibility, Bombing and PvP Development is getting out of control.

Just use detect pots. Detect pots have always been way better than things like caltops and if I am reading the changes right, they'll even be better next update because cloak won't force miss skills that you use against them.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal. How is this not a NB nerf?

So NB Invisibiilty get so much better with the next Update that
everybody will need to sacrifice a slot to survive the NB SUPERCHEESE.
This really is showing how Invisibility, Bombing and PvP Development is getting out of control.

Just use detect pots. Detect pots have always been way better than things like caltops and if I am reading the changes right, they'll even be better next update because cloak won't force miss skills that you use against them.

Competely true. Unfortunately people want free defense against one class and the playstyle it was designed for.

The_Lex · July 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal. How is this not a NB nerf?

So NB Invisibiilty get so much better with the next Update that
everybody will need to sacrifice a slot to survive the NB SUPERCHEESE.
This really is showing how Invisibility, Bombing and PvP Development is getting out of control.

Just use detect pots. Detect pots have always been way better than things like caltops and if I am reading the changes right, they'll even be better next update because cloak won't force miss skills that you use against them.

Competely true. Unfortunately people want free defense against one class and the playstyle it was designed for.

True, but I'd add that this comes up with virtually any playstyle or meta change. People want free damage (more procs) and free defense (more passive mitigation sources), while refusing to change their builds to accommodate a patch change. I'm all for advocating the reversal of nerfs and buffs in any iteration of patch notes, but after a while, you have to throw your hands up and retool the build.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

It's also important to note that they are significantly buffing Hunter and Mage Light. Those two changes alone will make it very difficult for a NB to elude capture.

At the end of the day they are making it significantly easier to catch NBs and making it significantly easier to eat the damage when it does come. We're seeing like 8 new changes directly aimed at nerfing NBs. What do we get? Fixing Shadow Disguise's known bugs. I'd rather my damage not get wiped out.

TequilaFire · July 2021

Nightblades will adjust, or we can just make a Necro bomber.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

I'll never be okay with the "just play another character for three months" argument. I have 9 characters. I'd rather leave than give up the one that I enjoy playing.

TequilaFire · July 2021

Never gave up on my Stamblades or my Stamplars just was kind of inferring that Nightblades aren't the only class that can bomb.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

TequilaFire wrote: »

Never gave up on my Stamblades or my Stamplars just was kind of inferring that Nightblades aren't the only class that can bomb.

Oh my reply wasn't necessarily directed at you. Necro bombing is nasty.

NagualV · July 2021

Has anyone on this thread actually tested the new cloak, and anti-cloak mechanics? As a magblade main, I am curious. I logged in couple of days ago but couldnt find anyone to test.

I really feel like it's important to test the new cloak before coming to a conclusion as to whether this is all a "nerf" or "buff"

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

NagualV wrote: »

Has anyone on this thread actually tested the new cloak, and anti-cloak mechanics? As a magblade main, I am curious. I logged in couple of days ago but couldnt find anyone to test.

I really feel like it's important to test the new cloak before coming to a conclusion as to whether this is all a "nerf" or "buff"

The cloak doesn't help you deal damage. It could be an impervious cloak and wouldn't matter if all our attacks are negated by mitigation.

NagualV · July 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

NagualV wrote: »

Has anyone on this thread actually tested the new cloak, and anti-cloak mechanics? As a magblade main, I am curious. I logged in couple of days ago but couldnt find anyone to test.

I really feel like it's important to test the new cloak before coming to a conclusion as to whether this is all a "nerf" or "buff"

The cloak doesn't help you deal damage. It could be an impervious cloak and wouldn't matter if all our attacks are negated by mitigation.

I just think its important to test, that's all. I def agree with testing the damage side of things too, and i intend to. If cloak works reliably(whether you think of it as a bug "fix" or change or whatever) now, that would be significant in my opinion. I wanna know how that then relates to the anti-cloak mechs being introduced. And also to test damage and mitigation too. Get a complete picture.

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

NagualV wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

NagualV wrote: »

Has anyone on this thread actually tested the new cloak, and anti-cloak mechanics? As a magblade main, I am curious. I logged in couple of days ago but couldnt find anyone to test.

I really feel like it's important to test the new cloak before coming to a conclusion as to whether this is all a "nerf" or "buff"

The cloak doesn't help you deal damage. It could be an impervious cloak and wouldn't matter if all our attacks are negated by mitigation.

I just think its important to test, that's all. I def agree with testing the damage side of things too, and i intend to. If cloak works reliably(whether you think of it as a bug "fix" or change or whatever) now, that would be significant in my opinion. I wanna know how that then relates to the anti-cloak mechs being introduced. And also to test damage and mitigation too. Get a complete picture.

People have reported that cloak works better but again, if the damage the class is built to output is being significantly decreased it doesn't matter.

They are making mage light and hunter way better at detection. The changes to cloak will not prevent those stronger detections from working.

pleximus · July 2021

I can't even describe in words how much I DESPISE this class! I hope it gets banned permanently! All it does is ruin good fights with someone jumping out of nowhere destroying everything right then and there! They are the antithesis of fun!

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They are adding new mitigation sources specifically to nerf incoming NB damage. They're giving major prophecy to anyone slotting reveal. How is this not a NB nerf?

So NB Invisibiilty get so much better with the next Update that
everybody will need to sacrifice a slot to survive the NB SUPERCHEESE.
This really is showing how Invisibility, Bombing and PvP Development is getting out of control.

Just use detect pots. Detect pots have always been way better than things like caltops and if I am reading the changes right, they'll even be better next update because cloak won't force miss skills that you use against them.

You dont even need detect pots, just use Direct dmg AOE...

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

pleximus wrote: »

I can't even describe in words how much I DESPISE this class! I hope it gets banned permanently! All it does is ruin good fights with someone jumping out of nowhere destroying everything right then and there! They are the antithesis of fun!

Or you could learn to avoid their damage which is highly telegraphed by sound fx. You know what the antithesis of fun is for me? A tank kiting 20 enemies around rocks and towers. But I'm not trying to campaign ZOS to eliminate that playstyle from the game.

I am however campaigning against turning every single player into a tank with no cost. The reason why tank metas get killed is because after three months people realize how boring and frustrating is. Unfortunately people forget. Or new players flood the forum during MYM because they didn't like dying and aren't interested in learning because they're just there for 2 weeks of AP boost and transmutes.

thegreatme · July 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Or you could learn to avoid their damage which is highly telegraphed by sound fx. You know what the antithesis of fun is for me? A tank kiting 20 enemies around rocks and towers. But I'm not trying to campaign ZOS to eliminate that playstyle from the game.

I am however campaigning against turning every single player into a tank with no cost. The reason why tank metas get killed is because after three months people realize how boring and frustrating is. Unfortunately people forget. Or new players flood the forum during MYM because they didn't like dying and aren't interested in learning because they're just there for 2 weeks of AP boost and transmutes.

Honestly every time I hear people complain about NB, I'm always inclined to believe its because they were ganked once and now they're salty because it "wasn't a fair 1v1 brawl fight".

Newsflash, Nightblades are supposed to play unfair by design.

And really the "unfair" part is highly subjective. Its near impossible to build a high damage stealth blade with any survivability outside of cloaking. I'm sure some people have done it but not very many. We hit hard and we get hit harder.

I'm guessing they don't main NB themselves.

I'm guessing none of them have tried to quietly go about their day getting Cyro dailies during Midyear using cloak to avoid a fight only to get roflstomped by a sprinting kill squad of DKs, Sorcs, and Werewolves running Magelight, making it impossible just to get away from them and mind your own business.

That's not a complaint from me, btw, that's just the reality of counter-play.

If someone actually manages to gank me in a single blow (which doesn't happen a lot, but its happened) or get the better of me outside of Bombing, I give them my congrats and ask about their build. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Sephyr · July 2021

thegreatme wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Or you could learn to avoid their damage which is highly telegraphed by sound fx. You know what the antithesis of fun is for me? A tank kiting 20 enemies around rocks and towers. But I'm not trying to campaign ZOS to eliminate that playstyle from the game.

I am however campaigning against turning every single player into a tank with no cost. The reason why tank metas get killed is because after three months people realize how boring and frustrating is. Unfortunately people forget. Or new players flood the forum during MYM because they didn't like dying and aren't interested in learning because they're just there for 2 weeks of AP boost and transmutes.

Honestly every time I hear people complain about NB, I'm always inclined to believe its because they were ganked once and now they're salty because it "wasn't a fair 1v1 brawl fight".

Newsflash, Nightblades are supposed to play unfair by design.

And really the "unfair" part is highly subjective. Its near impossible to build a high damage stealth blade with any survivability outside of cloaking. I'm sure some people have done it but not very many. We hit hard and we get hit harder.

I'm guessing they don't main NB themselves.

I'm guessing none of them have tried to quietly go about their day getting Cyro dailies during Midyear using cloak to avoid a fight only to get roflstomped by a sprinting kill squad of DKs, Sorcs, and Werewolves running Magelight, making it impossible just to get away from them and mind your own business.

That's not a complaint from me, btw, that's just the reality of counter-play.

If someone actually manages to gank me in a single blow (which doesn't happen a lot, but its happened) or get the better of me outside of Bombing, I give them my congrats and ask about their build. [snip]

It usually sums it up. Nightblades are an ambushing class. People hate them, but never employ the counters or make themselves aware that we're out there lurking. I main MagNecro most of the time, but I don't even have a fully maxed out Nightblade yet and I've been making some pretty solid ganks and bombs. However if I'm properly countered? I'm pretty much pulverized into paste.

At the same time, after being on that side of gameplay? I learned even more ways to counter Nightblades that I didn't really realize until I actually seen how complacent most are, or alternatively they just don't care. I've stealthed my way into keeps after the front door was open and my side lost — ganked in there for over half an hour because they didn't properly sweep the keep.

[edited to remove quote]

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

The fascinating thing to me is that they "have to" add major protection to revealing flare to make it worth slotting.

It was already worth slotting.

But now they're making mage light and hunter BETTER at rooting out NBs than flare. So what's the point of using flare at all EXCEPT to get free Major Protection.

Bombers are over performing. Overload sorcs are over performing. So adjust the skills and sets those builds use. Don't nuke all of PVP AND destroy NBs.