xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

This is also not a desync, it's properly timed burst rotations.

The "desync" can refer to: multiple different GCDs of Overload landing on your client simultaneously, the client's inability to log the attacks that hit you in your death recap or CMX, or the lack of an audible sound when the first Overload is cast (you'll hear the cast sound after you're already dead server side). I don't understand anyone trying to defend this as "it's skill not desync" for ranged no-counterplay one-shots with multiple layers of mechanics not working properly.

It's not a dsync, it's travel time coupled with the stealth stun. This is why they removed the stealth stun from snipe, lowered it's travel time and magically the "dsync's" disappeared.

I get that for whatever reason people find this annoying, it's never really bothered me. However if you watch this happen in a video and slow it down, you can clearly see everything hitting at the proper time. Now there are instances of server lag but that applies to everything equally so it's not really applicable.

As to recaps and ui's not showing the damage of some hits, this is normal. Most recaps will not register the stealth hit, don't ask me why but the UI recap nor recount will register the stealth hit due to a API limitation. And it's ALWAYS been this way.

However as stated, if the player has damage numbers on, they ALWAYS show the hits/damage above the targets head. Again it can be seen slowed down in any video or seen when playing if you are hyper aware.

As to sounds of attacks when cast from stealth. This too is normal. ALL attacks while your character is in stealth are silent, this is another reason for the Dsync myth. If you are at max range, you can get roughly 3 projectiles in the air before the first hits, removing "stealth" from your toon and there will be no sound associated with any of them.

Now invisibility is different, ability sound applies in this state. Which is why you will hear an incap coming from an invisible toon and not a stealthed toon.

Now, I am not defending or condemning this sorc gank thing. I am simply trying to educate folks on how it works and dispel the inaccurate myths that are starting to evolve.

Love it or hate it, it's not an exploit. Nor is it using some sort of unfair mechanics. It is however clever use of game mechanics and it's effective since it appears most players lack an understanding of stealth gameplay.

So it happens like this: Pre buff Crystal Weapon, Pre Buff Elemental weapon, Overload x2+ - 10k+ Crystal 10K+ Elemental 6k+ Overload x2+= 32k+ All but the last Overload hitting in the same global cooldown. Which if I am being honest is often not needed. Also no sound to detect until AFTER something hits, breaking your stealth.

So to recap/explain- The missing Global CD's you are referring to are done BEFORE combat even initiates via Pre Buffing, exacerbated by travel times of projectiles cast within milliseconds of each other, resulting in combat lasting 1.4 seconds( roughly). Though it's actual global cd impact was 3.4(roughly) seconds and only hearing anything incoming after something hits.

With all that said, they do need to reduce Crystal weapons buff timer to match Elemental/Crushing Weapons cool down so they can't be stacked.

Xeniph wrote: »

So it happens like this: Pre buff Crystal Weapon, Pre Buff Elemental weapon, Overload x2+ - 10k+ Crystal 10K+ Elemental 6k+ Overload x2+= 32k+ All but the last Overload hitting in the same global cooldown.

Both Overloads hit at the same time on the target's client. That's the "desync" that causes one shots.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

So it happens like this: Pre buff Crystal Weapon, Pre Buff Elemental weapon, Overload x2+ - 10k+ Crystal 10K+ Elemental 6k+ Overload x2+= 32k+ All but the last Overload hitting in the same global cooldown.

Both Overloads hit at the same time on the target's client. That's the "desync" that causes one shots.

They don't though!

They only appear to since the time between them is milliseconds. I believe the actual time between LA's is 800 milliseconds.
That's nearly imperceptible, especially mid combat with these servers.

Now couple that with the stealth stun that comes with it and this is where the issue lies. Hell the slippery CP passive doesn't even break free that fast (I've tested it, it's slower than my reaction time)

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

This is also not a desync, it's properly timed burst rotations.

The "desync" can refer to: multiple different GCDs of Overload landing on your client simultaneously, the client's inability to log the attacks that hit you in your death recap or CMX, or the lack of an audible sound when the first Overload is cast (you'll hear the cast sound after you're already dead server side). I don't understand anyone trying to defend this as "it's skill not desync" for ranged no-counterplay one-shots with multiple layers of mechanics not working properly.

It's not a dsync, it's travel time coupled with the stealth stun. This is why they removed the stealth stun from snipe, lowered it's travel time and magically the "dsync's" disappeared.

I get that for whatever reason people find this annoying, it's never really bothered me. However if you watch this happen in a video and slow it down, you can clearly see everything hitting at the proper time. Now there are instances of server lag but that applies to everything equally so it's not really applicable.

As to recaps and ui's not showing the damage of some hits, this is normal. Most recaps will not register the stealth hit, don't ask me why but the UI recap nor recount will register the stealth hit due to a API limitation. And it's ALWAYS been this way.

However as stated, if the player has damage numbers on, they ALWAYS show the hits/damage above the targets head. Again it can be seen slowed down in any video or seen when playing if you are hyper aware.

As to sounds of attacks when cast from stealth. This too is normal. ALL attacks while your character is in stealth are silent, this is another reason for the Dsync myth. If you are at max range, you can get roughly 3 projectiles in the air before the first hits, removing "stealth" from your toon and there will be no sound associated with any of them.

Now invisibility is different, ability sound applies in this state. Which is why you will hear an incap coming from an invisible toon and not a stealthed toon.

Now, I am not defending or condemning this sorc gank thing. I am simply trying to educate folks on how it works and dispel the inaccurate myths that are starting to evolve.

Love it or hate it, it's not an exploit. Nor is it using some sort of unfair mechanics. It is however clever use of game mechanics and it's effective since it appears most players lack an understanding of stealth gameplay.

So it happens like this: Pre buff Crystal Weapon, Pre Buff Elemental weapon, Overload x2+ - 10k+ Crystal 10K+ Elemental 6k+ Overload x2+= 32k+ All but the last Overload hitting in the same global cooldown. Which if I am being honest is often not needed. Also no sound to detect until AFTER something hits, breaking your stealth.

So to recap/explain- The missing Global CD's you are referring to are done BEFORE combat even initiates via Pre Buffing, exacerbated by travel times of projectiles cast within milliseconds of each other, resulting in combat lasting 1.4 seconds( roughly). Though it's actual global cd impact was 3.4(roughly) seconds and only hearing anything incoming after something hits.

With all that said, they do need to reduce Crystal weapons buff timer to match Elemental/Crushing Weapons cool down so they can't be stacked.

Gank combos work as intended and all you can do about them is tank up until you dont get oneshot anymore.

The desyncs however are very real and problematic. Just think about snipe for example. Everyone knows that sometimes you get hit by 2-3 snipes at once. That is not how the skill works and on the screen of the player who cast them they hit one after another as they should. On the receving end however they hit all at once and thus there is no time to counterplay it, where in theory there should be ample time.
You can literally see when you desync someone with it, because they will get hit by one after another and not react to it at all.

That is why theres so many grand sniperlords running around who dont even bother with proper combos and just spam one snipe after another: because by grace of desync it often works.

Also if you reduce crystal weapons buff timer it will go straight into the trash bin. Theres a good reason nobody but the occasional ganker ever bothered to use crushing weapon.
Overload ganks are just as strong damage wise as incap ganks, bow ult ganks or bomb ganks in the first place.
Dont let nightblades keep all the ganking fun only for themselves.

A snipe "desync" has never happened to me, not once since release, for countless 100's of hours on both visible and stealth toons.
Now that's not to say I haven't been lagged all to hell and got stunned for 3 seconds before any damage registers. However that applies to all abilities and all of us. And is not a "desync" but just normal (for ESO) server latency.

Never once have I been hit with multiple instances of any ability without any kind of delay. Whether perceptible to the naked eye nor by timestamps. This myth is partly due to poor server performance, low reaction time players and imo a general lack of knowledge about flight times/cast times.

Hell, I have even ganked famous streamers for years and gone back to watch all the VoD's. They all were screaming Desync but you can clearly see everything hitting at the correct timing. But hey I get it, it's not easy to react to things in a .800-1.1 second time frame.

ZoS solved this for the masses with the snipe changes. Lowered it's flight time and removed the stun and voila!

Woops, forgot to address the Crystal Weapon thing- That's an acceptable suggestion in my book. I don't want to make it useless, just prevent the stacking. I thinks with them stacking, it's too much ability to pre-buff is all.

Xeniph wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

So it happens like this: Pre buff Crystal Weapon, Pre Buff Elemental weapon, Overload x2+ - 10k+ Crystal 10K+ Elemental 6k+ Overload x2+= 32k+ All but the last Overload hitting in the same global cooldown.

Both Overloads hit at the same time on the target's client. That's the "desync" that causes one shots.

They don't though!

They only appear to since the time between them is milliseconds. I believe the actual time between LA's is 800 milliseconds.
That's nearly imperceptible, especially mid combat with these servers.

Now couple that with the stealth stun that comes with it and this is where the issue lies. Hell the slippery CP passive doesn't even break free that fast (I've tested it, it's slower than my reaction time)

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

This is also not a desync, it's properly timed burst rotations.

The "desync" can refer to: multiple different GCDs of Overload landing on your client simultaneously, the client's inability to log the attacks that hit you in your death recap or CMX, or the lack of an audible sound when the first Overload is cast (you'll hear the cast sound after you're already dead server side). I don't understand anyone trying to defend this as "it's skill not desync" for ranged no-counterplay one-shots with multiple layers of mechanics not working properly.

It's not a dsync, it's travel time coupled with the stealth stun. This is why they removed the stealth stun from snipe, lowered it's travel time and magically the "dsync's" disappeared.

I get that for whatever reason people find this annoying, it's never really bothered me. However if you watch this happen in a video and slow it down, you can clearly see everything hitting at the proper time. Now there are instances of server lag but that applies to everything equally so it's not really applicable.

As to recaps and ui's not showing the damage of some hits, this is normal. Most recaps will not register the stealth hit, don't ask me why but the UI recap nor recount will register the stealth hit due to a API limitation. And it's ALWAYS been this way.

However as stated, if the player has damage numbers on, they ALWAYS show the hits/damage above the targets head. Again it can be seen slowed down in any video or seen when playing if you are hyper aware.

As to sounds of attacks when cast from stealth. This too is normal. ALL attacks while your character is in stealth are silent, this is another reason for the Dsync myth. If you are at max range, you can get roughly 3 projectiles in the air before the first hits, removing "stealth" from your toon and there will be no sound associated with any of them.

Now invisibility is different, ability sound applies in this state. Which is why you will hear an incap coming from an invisible toon and not a stealthed toon.

Now, I am not defending or condemning this sorc gank thing. I am simply trying to educate folks on how it works and dispel the inaccurate myths that are starting to evolve.

Love it or hate it, it's not an exploit. Nor is it using some sort of unfair mechanics. It is however clever use of game mechanics and it's effective since it appears most players lack an understanding of stealth gameplay.

So it happens like this: Pre buff Crystal Weapon, Pre Buff Elemental weapon, Overload x2+ - 10k+ Crystal 10K+ Elemental 6k+ Overload x2+= 32k+ All but the last Overload hitting in the same global cooldown. Which if I am being honest is often not needed. Also no sound to detect until AFTER something hits, breaking your stealth.

So to recap/explain- The missing Global CD's you are referring to are done BEFORE combat even initiates via Pre Buffing, exacerbated by travel times of projectiles cast within milliseconds of each other, resulting in combat lasting 1.4 seconds( roughly). Though it's actual global cd impact was 3.4(roughly) seconds and only hearing anything incoming after something hits.

With all that said, they do need to reduce Crystal weapons buff timer to match Elemental/Crushing Weapons cool down so they can't be stacked.

Gank combos work as intended and all you can do about them is tank up until you dont get oneshot anymore.

The desyncs however are very real and problematic. Just think about snipe for example. Everyone knows that sometimes you get hit by 2-3 snipes at once. That is not how the skill works and on the screen of the player who cast them they hit one after another as they should. On the receving end however they hit all at once and thus there is no time to counterplay it, where in theory there should be ample time.
You can literally see when you desync someone with it, because they will get hit by one after another and not react to it at all.

That is why theres so many grand sniperlords running around who dont even bother with proper combos and just spam one snipe after another: because by grace of desync it often works.

Also if you reduce crystal weapons buff timer it will go straight into the trash bin. Theres a good reason nobody but the occasional ganker ever bothered to use crushing weapon.
Overload ganks are just as strong damage wise as incap ganks, bow ult ganks or bomb ganks in the first place.
Dont let nightblades keep all the ganking fun only for themselves.

A snipe "desync" has never happened to me, not once since release, for countless 100's of hours on both visible and stealth toons.
Now that's not to say I haven't been lagged all to hell and got stunned for 3 seconds before any damage registers. However that applies to all abilities and all of us. And is not a "desync" but just normal (for ESO) server latency.

Never once have I been hit with multiple instances of any ability without any kind of delay. Whether perceptible to the naked eye nor by timestamps. This myth is partly due to poor server performance, low reaction time players and imo a general lack of knowledge about flight times/cast times.

Hell, I have even ganked famous streamers for years and gone back to watch all the VoD's. They all were screaming Desync but you can clearly see everything hitting at the correct timing. But hey I get it, it's not easy to react to things in a .800-1.1 second time frame.

ZoS solved this for the masses with the snipe changes. Lowered it's flight time and removed the stun and voila!

Woops, forgot to address the Crystal Weapon thing- That's an acceptable suggestion in my book. I don't want to make it useless, just prevent the stacking. I thinks with them stacking, it's too much ability to pre-buff is all.

That makes you luckier than anyone Ive ever spoken to. It also became worse over the years and went from an exception to the rule.

Often times you get hit by abilities while on your screen the travel animation, impact animation, sound cue, cc and damage are completly out of sync with each other, and what happens on your client doesnt line up with what happens on other peoples screens.
The most ridiclious example would be what often happens with some meteors.

For anyone I know it is not an uncommon occurence to lose all resources, die 2 seconds later and then have several snipe arrows rain down on your already corpse.

Regarding Crystal weapon, based on the death recap, yesterday, I was literally one-shot for much less damage than my character has health. After the guy killed me, he disappeared like a nightblade, I'd say he used an invis pot. He did this to several players and then disappeared. He must've went through a lot of invis pots and players were looking for him.

Here is a screenshot. I cut and enlarged the combat log, then pasted it back into the image so you could see the time stamps. Seems like something is buggy, but I don't know what.

I want to know how they are managing to get that many skills off in a row... In cyro I'm limited to 2 sometimes 3 skills before they grey out or just dont function for 3 or 4 sec.

Sluggy wrote: »

While I can't say this wasn't obvious to anyone that reads the patch notes with each update it still feels bad, man. This was with 30k hp and nearly 33k resists (though admittedly only the base crit resists). Notice the message at the top right. Literally zero warning as it was a one-shot insta kill registered on the server long before I found out about it. To be fair, this almost certainly wouldn't work in a standup fight but really the point is this is one of those cases where literally nothing can be done about it when playing alone. Combat is becoming increasingly just a state of noise these days. Zero indication of what is happening or when anything might occur. You might die instantly. You might heal back to full instantly from a near execution. It's almost entirely random at some points.

what the hell...

Its CP or no CP? But still what the hell

btw one example of why for me Sorc is an OP class, if someone can put you down with practically one light attack then something is wrong.

MrMazurski wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

While I can't say this wasn't obvious to anyone that reads the patch notes with each update it still feels bad, man. This was with 30k hp and nearly 33k resists (though admittedly only the base crit resists). Notice the message at the top right. Literally zero warning as it was a one-shot insta kill registered on the server long before I found out about it. To be fair, this almost certainly wouldn't work in a standup fight but really the point is this is one of those cases where literally nothing can be done about it when playing alone. Combat is becoming increasingly just a state of noise these days. Zero indication of what is happening or when anything might occur. You might die instantly. You might heal back to full instantly from a near execution. It's almost entirely random at some points.

what the hell...

Its CP or no CP? But still what the hell

btw one example of why for me Sorc is an OP class, if someone can put you down with practically one light attack then something is wrong.

Smh. Bomber builds exist purely to do this very act but in a different means.

Not a single person here has stated an appropriate amount of defensive stats to survive these builds.

33k resist is not 33k. Its 15 at best and probably closer to 6k after the offensive builds penetration

Waffennacht wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

While I can't say this wasn't obvious to anyone that reads the patch notes with each update it still feels bad, man. This was with 30k hp and nearly 33k resists (though admittedly only the base crit resists). Notice the message at the top right. Literally zero warning as it was a one-shot insta kill registered on the server long before I found out about it. To be fair, this almost certainly wouldn't work in a standup fight but really the point is this is one of those cases where literally nothing can be done about it when playing alone. Combat is becoming increasingly just a state of noise these days. Zero indication of what is happening or when anything might occur. You might die instantly. You might heal back to full instantly from a near execution. It's almost entirely random at some points.

what the hell...

Its CP or no CP? But still what the hell

btw one example of why for me Sorc is an OP class, if someone can put you down with practically one light attack then something is wrong.

Smh. Bomber builds exist purely to do this very act but in a different means.

Not a single person here has stated an appropriate amount of defensive stats to survive these builds.

33k resist is not 33k. Its 15 at best and probably closer to 6k after the offensive builds penetration

A players single best defensive stat is his/her reaction time, or more specifically Break Free and Block/Dodge speed, when it comes to ganking, followed by Impen, health, potion, armor/resists and finally defensive buffs, in order of effectiveness and priority.

Now saying this is usually easier said than done, because we have all tried to break fee only to find we spend the resources and do the animation with zero effect multiple times in a row and just stand there to die.

However the point is valid when the server is actually working as intended.

This also isn't just one light attack, nor is is instant. As I have stated before, often times the ingame death recap won't show abilities that damage from stealth, but on top of that I have never seen an addon combat logger do it once. It's quite frustrating to try and test things on dummies or friends.

Now in this particular instance (the screenshot)

Half of the entire combat was prebuffed resulting in 2 seconds for both Crystal and Crushing. Then the .4-.8 second Light attack. Depending on travel time that's around 2.4-2.8 seconds of global cd's before combat starts. Then the Shrouded Daggers is queued at .4 seconds after the LA and should fire no later than 1 seconds after, thus resulting in it hitting (as the ability has no travel time according to my testing) .2-.4 seconds after the LA hits. For a grand total of 3-3.2 seconds of combat. It's just that most of it happens without the targets knowledge.

Now this is all legit and no bugs or exploits are being used, but it is clearly a clever use of frontloading burst damage. I should also note that every class can do this with the one exception being Crystal Weapon.

So if we use this specific screen shot- every class can do the 37k damage this player took from Crushing/LA/ Shrouded Daggers and the enchant.. I know I have been doing something quite similar for a few patches now with my NB and achieve the same results.

* I also forgot to mention- When the servers are running smooth, you can also empower that LA and hit even harder :P

Xeniph wrote: »

So if we use this specific screen shot- every class can do the 37k damage this player took from Crushing/LA/ Shrouded Daggers and the enchant..

Except because the shrouded daggers damage is primarily being boosted by vateshran daggers execute mechanic, missing the crystal weapon hit before shrouded daggers means the target will have 9k+ more health when daggers hits so it will deal significantly less damage due to lesser execute percentage. Not to mention the lesser damage the LA would do in comparison to overload which would further exacerbate this.

Yesterday I got a crushing weapon for 14k damage, followed up by a crystal weapon for 14k. Nothing else on the death recap.

Instantly dead. Never even saw where it came from. Was just running along and instantly died.

Great PvP experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Right, it's not an exploit, and they don't do it on purpose

Me at full 27 Health, no one hit me before or after
Crystal Weapon/Crushing Weapon/Power Overload (not shown in death recap beacuse hitm me for 0)



All this kills have the same patterns.

It is intended that crystal weapon hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that crushing weapon hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that overload hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that glyphs hit at the same time as a light attack

People just decided that they can do all of them at once.

Exploit? No.
Ridiculous? Yes.

And don't mention the death recap, that's always been unreliable.

ZOS has consistently maintained the position that multiple large damaging attacks during a single global cooldown is not something they want in PvP.

This is technically not an exploit but it is absolutely not what ZOS intended or wants.

Joy, there is no way that zos made crystal weapon a copy of crushing weapon with a few tweaks including a 4 second window for the basic attack to hit and they didn't expect it to be used as delayed burst. They gave this skill to sorcs so that stam sorcs have a delayed burst option. Are you trying to say that zos intended players to wait more than 3 seconds to use another skill after warden's shalk?

No, I am saying the Devs thought this would be just another delayed burst skill as they have a history of copying the effects/mechanics that are used on another class/ability and using it on another, what they call "standardization."

But because the dev combat team is pretty small and because they don't seek outside opinions during their development process, they often miss the unintended consequences of their decisions, which is why for years many competitive players and top theorycrafters look at the patch notes with a collective "huh?"

This is what Gina said with regard to their defense of putting cast-times on ultimates:

We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much

This is just another case where the devs were not able to anticipate one of their changes that would contradict the gameplay principals they want to be part of their core gameplay

In my view the timeframe difference for the basic attack that procs crystal weapon, 4 seconds, versus crushing weapon, 2 seconds, is too deliberate for the devs to not intend crystal weapon to be used in conjunction with crushing weapon or dizzy swing. Are you saying this was what was not intended or that it was not intended to be used with overload?

In my view it wasn't the gameplay that was not anticipated. It was just zos's inconsistency in combat standards patch to patch.

Sluggy wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

what the hell...

Its CP or no CP? But still what the hell

btw one example of why for me Sorc is an OP class, if someone can put you down with practically one light attack then something is wrong.

It was Cp if I recall correctly. Traditionally CP is where tankiness tends to be more common but I've noticed with this patch it very much feels that damage is what's amped up more in CP and I actually feel tankier in no-cp (where I prefer to play anyway).

Also it was technically two buffs, a toggle, then a light-attack + skill. In this case the daggers hit so hard because they are obviously using the vate daggers which gives a massive execution bonus when used from behind. I wouldn't be surprised if they also had Deadland Assassin as an extra measure of execute insurance but when it hits this hard there'd be no time for such a proc to even register lol

EDIT: I take that back. Probably NOT running Deadland's Assassin simply due to the fact that they would have to wind up a second heavy and they can't heavy into the Shrouded Dagger due to the way overload works. So it's probably just stacking into some combo of crit, pen, and weapon damage.

I play No-CP,
CP boosts the damage too much with ridiculous % amount.

TBois wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Right, it's not an exploit, and they don't do it on purpose

Me at full 27 Health, no one hit me before or after
Crystal Weapon/Crushing Weapon/Power Overload (not shown in death recap beacuse hitm me for 0)



All this kills have the same patterns.

It is intended that crystal weapon hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that crushing weapon hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that overload hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that glyphs hit at the same time as a light attack

People just decided that they can do all of them at once.

Exploit? No.
Ridiculous? Yes.

And don't mention the death recap, that's always been unreliable.

ZOS has consistently maintained the position that multiple large damaging attacks during a single global cooldown is not something they want in PvP.

This is technically not an exploit but it is absolutely not what ZOS intended or wants.

Joy, there is no way that zos made crystal weapon a copy of crushing weapon with a few tweaks including a 4 second window for the basic attack to hit and they didn't expect it to be used as delayed burst. They gave this skill to sorcs so that stam sorcs have a delayed burst option. Are you trying to say that zos intended players to wait more than 3 seconds to use another skill after warden's shalk?

No, I am saying the Devs thought this would be just another delayed burst skill as they have a history of copying the effects/mechanics that are used on another class/ability and using it on another, what they call "standardization."

But because the dev combat team is pretty small and because they don't seek outside opinions during their development process, they often miss the unintended consequences of their decisions, which is why for years many competitive players and top theorycrafters look at the patch notes with a collective "huh?"

This is what Gina said with regard to their defense of putting cast-times on ultimates:

We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much

This is just another case where the devs were not able to anticipate one of their changes that would contradict the gameplay principals they want to be part of their core gameplay

In my view the timeframe difference for the basic attack that procs crystal weapon, 4 seconds, versus crushing weapon, 2 seconds, is too deliberate for the devs to not intend crystal weapon to be used in conjunction with crushing weapon or dizzy swing. Are you saying this was what was not intended or that it was not intended to be used with overload?

In my view it wasn't the gameplay that was not anticipated. It was just zos's inconsistency in combat standards patch to patch.

Classes, skill trees should be rebuilt, repaired and well checked long ago.

Sluggy wrote: »

Ok, so when Crystal Weapon came out, I for one did run that skill in conjunction with Crushing Weapon. And you know what? It sucked. Even tried combining it with the Bound Armaments. This was back at the height of the tank meta so going two full seconds without dealing any damage was already a bad idea. However with the changes to overall stats this setup has gone from being mostly useless to extremely volatile.

Now don't get me wrong, I hated the tank meta as much as the next person but I've said it before and I'll say it again. The balance between defense and offense right now is totally off kilter. Both of them are at such extremes there is little value being anywhere near the middle. And when everything hinges on your skills working perfectly to keep that very very subtle balance of incoming damage vs defenses there is no room for things like a perfectly normal ping time, much less massive server-side lag spikes. This sort of gameplay simply doesn't work well in a networked context.

Yes. Currently you are either going full tank or full dmg. There is no balance, you have to be on one side to get something.

Xeniph wrote: »

Honestly that Oveload damage is quite comparable to most LA's that crit on a gank build.

Your light attacks are hitting for nearly 13k damage?! Why even run a spammable at that point? lol

Seriously though. I'm not really trying to hate on the combo itself. Like I said, it was a pretty obvious thing to try for anyone that keeps up with the patch notes. And I don't really want to see a change to these specific skills. I think this is really indicative of a bigger issue with the game right now. Which is that damage is out of control, healing is out of control, and defense is out of control. People just seem to stack all into one of these. The idea of running a well-balanced build has been long dead and I think that's a shame. Having some combination of all three of those where you maybe slightly focus on one a little more to the detriment of the others is how I would prefer it to be. But right now if you have a good balance it feels like you are in the worst of all worlds no matter who you roll up against.