Long distance, no warning, light attack insta-death gank is absurdly OP

Merforum

Reverb wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

If we consider desyncs a exploit we can ban every magsorc in the game.

While ridiculous, I support this.

I don't think it is t too hard to understand that they are doing this on purpose to take adavantage of a broken mechanic.

There’s a well known player who’s been a mainstay of eso pvp since the beginning, who was abusing the hell out of this exploit all weekend. After fighting against someone for 7 years, it’s easy to tell when something is so far outside of his normal play style and obviously abusing a bug. I used to have respect for the guy (even if I didn’t like him much), but not anymore. People who intentionally abuse broken game elements are garbage players.

I will say that this attack combo hits like a truck, has no counters, and registers all of the damage at the same time. I’m sure it is amusing to watch people you used to have good fights with just fall over dead and know there’s nothing that can do to stop you. I understand the appeal, it’s still the path of a garbage player though.

I never really watch or care about streamers and only watch a few youtubers usually. But over the past month or so I found myself watching various streamers off and on, and I did noticed people using insane heal/tanks for a while UNTIL ZOS fixed some of the healing/undertaker bugs and noticed those same people switch back to using the insane setup being described in this thread. And I have noticed for months playing BGs mostly, occasionally there are some using these crystal weapon/LA + whatever to get OP damage.

The biggest problem with this game and PVP specifically is that being able to do 2 or more things in 1 second, while too many people on the receiving end have over 500 millisecond LAG in seeing it and reacting to it. And there are too many skills/sets and even general combat mechanics that are either bugged, stackable or able to exploit the lag of others. It is amazing to me how many people were whining about proc sets, who are STILL USE THEM NOW with high weapon damage making them MORE OP (which they weren't before but are now).

At this point where the game can't handle/register players doing super fast actions, they need to have new servers, better software to increase performance and/or introduce some new combat rules, like reducing the number of attacks/damage that can be done per second per enemy and healing per sec. I have said for a long time they should implement hard caps on a bunch of stuff which would make the need for 'balancing' skills/sets/classes unnecessary.

For instance, if 1 person could only do 10-20K damage per second to 1 other person and 1 player could only heal themselves for 5k per second (but get healed by others for also 5k/s), it would eliminate OP sets/skills/combos and make fights more about actual skill than intended or unintended tactics. These numbers are just a guess but they could figure what the best CAP for stuff to make tanking/healing/damaging actually useful.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO SORC OR GO CRY !

Joy_Division

TBois wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Right, it's not an exploit, and they don't do it on purpose

Me at full 27 Health, no one hit me before or after
Crystal Weapon/Crushing Weapon/Power Overload (not shown in death recap beacuse hitm me for 0)



All this kills have the same patterns.

It is intended that crystal weapon hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that crushing weapon hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that overload hits at the same time as a light attack

It is intended that glyphs hit at the same time as a light attack

People just decided that they can do all of them at once.

Exploit? No.
Ridiculous? Yes.

And don't mention the death recap, that's always been unreliable.

ZOS has consistently maintained the position that multiple large damaging attacks during a single global cooldown is not something they want in PvP.

This is technically not an exploit but it is absolutely not what ZOS intended or wants.

Joy, there is no way that zos made crystal weapon a copy of crushing weapon with a few tweaks including a 4 second window for the basic attack to hit and they didn't expect it to be used as delayed burst. They gave this skill to sorcs so that stam sorcs have a delayed burst option. Are you trying to say that zos intended players to wait more than 3 seconds to use another skill after warden's shalk?

No, I am saying the Devs thought this would be just another delayed burst skill as they have a history of copying the effects/mechanics that are used on another class/ability and using it on another, what they call "standardization."

But because the dev combat team is pretty small and because they don't seek outside opinions during their development process, they often miss the unintended consequences of their decisions, which is why for years many competitive players and top theorycrafters look at the patch notes with a collective "huh?"

This is what Gina said with regard to their defense of putting cast-times on ultimates:

We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much

This is just another case where the devs were not able to anticipate one of their changes that would contradict the gameplay principals they want to be part of their core gameplay

In my view the timeframe difference for the basic attack that procs crystal weapon, 4 seconds, versus crushing weapon, 2 seconds, is too deliberate for the devs to not intend crystal weapon to be used in conjunction with crushing weapon or dizzy swing. Are you saying this was what was not intended or that it was not intended to be used with overload?

In my view it wasn't the gameplay that was not anticipated. It was just zos's inconsistency in combat standards patch to patch.

If Gina said this

We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much

then I don;t think getting hit with augmented Overload attacks as described by the OP and other commentators was intended.

As for Crystal Weapon and Crushing weapon, I do think ZOS is ok with this, though it's wandering into murky territory. ZOS has also consistently stated that delayed burst skills should have obvious tells and some form of counterplay beyond basic dodge/block. This is why travel time was put on NB focus to go with the conspicuous audible que. Templar's Backlash makes the target glow, to let them know damage is accumulating on them and the opportunity to purge. Wardens need to aim Shalks, DKs need to use additional mechanics for a Powerlash. Getting hit with Crystal Weapon / Crushing weapon just means executing an innocuous light attack. At the very least, the light attack imbued with such damage augmentation should look very threatening and have a conspicuous audible warning ala Shalks, Backlash, Focus, etc., to warn the target that they are threatened with a large damaging attack.

At the end of the day, either ESO has core gameplay principals or it doesn't. ZOS has been consistent with this one, so I suspect soon Overload won't count as a regular light attack. And if they are going to constantly nerf/delete things for the sake of counterplay, which they love to do, then at the least they should adjust the visuals and audibles to let players know when light attacks have been augmented with other abilities.

spacefracking

Big avada kedavra energy.

Forreal tho, this needs patching. Not as bad as the trolls who wasted hours of my life as they trolled ad trikeeps though. I dislike being treated like an NPC and having pvp killed for the night as a result.

katorga

Xargas13 wrote: »

To be honest, by reading the forums, and by simply playing PvP, I can surely say that this game has too much problems, at least in PvP. Many of the posters have a good point, one shots should not happen, ever, desync, lag or not. I bought an MMO and not COD.

You can't say one shots "should not happen, ever". There will always be a health level below which they will always happen. You can't account for someone rolling into to PVP with 19K health.

Right now that health level seems to be ~30K, assuming the player as the consensus minimum levels of mitigation and crit resists.

Adernath

People who say its working as intended have no idea what they are talking about.

Its not an ordinary gank. In this case (crystal weapon) the attacker is not revealed and the damage is absurdly high. The dev's really must look into this. It is getting exploited by more and more people.
.

Xeniph

Adernath wrote: »

People who say its working as intended have no idea what they are talking about.

Its not an ordinary gank. In this case (crystal weapon) the attacker is not revealed and the damage is absurdly high. The dev's really must look into this. It is getting exploited by more and more people.
.

Actually, it IS an ordinary gank. Crystal weapon is a pre-buff ability and completely follows established reveal mechanisms. More specifically it behaves exactly like Elemental/Crushing. The only difference is the buff duration and one is a class ability and the other is a guild (psijic )

Coupled with the fact you can get 2 LA's from any raged weapon (to include overload) off in stealth, remaining in it until the first hits, depending on range/flight time.

However in update 31 thay have made overload reveal the caster on use saying-

"There is nothing stealthy about hurling a giant ball of energy at your target"

So it's a moot point as they have addressed this in U31.

As a NB ganker I am kinda sad to see this go, it shifted so much hate off us!