Dual wield so far outclassed it is shameful. Just comparing flurry to d-swing alone is just silly.
Dizzying Swing
- High Damage
- 0.8s cast time
- Causes off-balance
- Stuns from a med attack
- Snares if cannot be stunned
Why does a spammable get all these effects exactly?
Flurry
- High Damage
- 0.6s channel time
Why doesn't this have effects similar to Dizzying?
2-H execute costs: 1836 stamina - the AOE version costs the same
DW execute costs: 2983 stamina... 1147 stamina more than the 2H execute
2H line
A good spammable AOE with a huge ward attached
Usable charge that always crits
Awesome execute
Rally which is an insanely strong heal and gives brutality and minor endurance
Amazing ultimate that will circumvent all armor someone is wearing.
DW line
A clunky ranged attack that gives major brutality and can hit up to five targets or a terrible teleport
Hard hitting AOE execute - that costs a lot of stamina
Blade cloak - major evasion, small dot, possibly major expedition
Terrible low damage AOE ultimate with a low amount healed
Now to the passives
2-hand
Battle Rush: +30% stam regen after killing a target for 10s with 2 handed weapon equipped. (Why does this not require you to kill the target with a 2-handed weapon attack?)
Dual Wield
Slaughter: 20% more damage against enemies below 25% hp with dual wield abilities - if an enemy is at 25% this is useless in PVP. They are pretty much guaranteed to die
Ruffian: 15% damage vs CCed enemies while using dual wield attacks - this is a good passive
ResidentContrarian wrote: »And yet most players use 2H on stam...
The main reason people use 2H over dual wield is rally vs hidden blade. Rally is snare removal or a huge heal and can be activated out of combat and without a target, hidden blade is so garbage you run 2H back bar on most builds. If hidden blade is replaced with a far better and more effective brutality buff it would get far more use.
The dualwield execute is that expensive, because it hits without aiming. Even tough the 2h execute can be an AoE, it can be dodged, Spin to Win can't, you get hit no matter what.
If you are far away enough to dodge Spin to Win, you would also dodge the 2h execute. But in case you are in range of Spin to Win, you will take that damage, even if you dodgerole, while the 2h execute would be dodged.
you forgot to mention the stupid range that dizzy and the execute hits at. Oh you're behind the guy, don't worry, it still hits you. It's just dumb. Even it up, devs...
you forgot to mention the stupid range that dizzy and the execute hits at. Oh you're behind the guy, don't worry, it still hits you. It's just dumb. Even it up, devs...
That is funny that you mentioned this. I remember reading about "counters to dizzying swing". The consensus among the elite PVPers is just run right through them and it cancels. Well unless it is totally different in PVE vs PVP on the hit mechanics. I tested this so many times, everytime I ran through a mob while casting dizzy it would cast behind me, to the side etc. The only way to avoid it is get like 15 meters out of range and even still with desync it will still most likely hit.
you forgot to mention the stupid range that dizzy and the execute hits at. Oh you're behind the guy, don't worry, it still hits you. It's just dumb. Even it up, devs...
That is funny that you mentioned this. I remember reading about "counters to dizzying swing". The consensus among the elite PVPers is just run right through them and it cancels. Well unless it is totally different in PVE vs PVP on the hit mechanics. I tested this so many times, everytime I ran through a mob while casting dizzy it would cast behind me, to the side etc. The only way to avoid it is get like 15 meters out of range and even still with desync it will still most likely hit.
MashmalloMan wrote: »
Also, if you weren't aware, this is how Flurry works too. There is only 1 check at the beginning for your cursor. You can cast the skill then turn completely away from the target and as long as you're in range of the 7m, you will deal all ticks of damage over the 0.6s. That is also why it's more reliable and doesn't need as many extra components to the skill like Dizzy, the damage is channeled with about 50% over time and 50% on the last hit and it's over a shorter duration. Less bursty, but definitely more reliable DPS. It just doesn't make it a great option for PVP because CC AND burst is so important.
They're not really comparable in the way you're making them out to be.
MashmalloMan wrote: »
Also, if you weren't aware, this is how Flurry works too. There is only 1 check at the beginning for your cursor. You can cast the skill then turn completely away from the target and as long as you're in range of the 7m, you will deal all ticks of damage over the 0.6s. That is also why it's more reliable and doesn't need as many extra components to the skill like Dizzy, the damage is channeled with about 50% over time and 50% on the last hit and it's over a shorter duration. Less bursty, but definitely more reliable DPS. It just doesn't make it a great option for PVP because CC AND burst is so important.
They're not really comparable in the way you're making them out to be.
Yes you are absolutely right; they are not comparable. Queuing up a med attack while casting dizzying swing is the easiest thing known to man, literally just hold light attack while Dizzy is casting for a split second longer and bam instantly hits after the dizzy and stuns your opponent.
If they were comparable then dizzy wouldn't be used by 95% of PVPers. It does nearly the same damage as flurry by pure numbers but once you add on the off-balance I bet you it is even more. Then add the icing, it stuns too. 4-in-one swiss army skill with off-balance, stun, snare, big damage
Waffennacht wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »
Also, if you weren't aware, this is how Flurry works too. There is only 1 check at the beginning for your cursor. You can cast the skill then turn completely away from the target and as long as you're in range of the 7m, you will deal all ticks of damage over the 0.6s. That is also why it's more reliable and doesn't need as many extra components to the skill like Dizzy, the damage is channeled with about 50% over time and 50% on the last hit and it's over a shorter duration. Less bursty, but definitely more reliable DPS. It just doesn't make it a great option for PVP because CC AND burst is so important.
They're not really comparable in the way you're making them out to be.
Yes you are absolutely right; they are not comparable. Queuing up a med attack while casting dizzying swing is the easiest thing known to man, literally just hold light attack while Dizzy is casting for a split second longer and bam instantly hits after the dizzy and stuns your opponent.
If they were comparable then dizzy wouldn't be used by 95% of PVPers. It does nearly the same damage as flurry by pure numbers but once you add on the off-balance I bet you it is even more. Then add the icing, it stuns too. 4-in-one swiss army skill with off-balance, stun, snare, big damage
Dont discount the synergy of 2h that makes slotting its abilities so attractive.
Lets say you swapped flurry and DS; youd see more 2h Flurry users than DW DS users. Rally, vateshran 2h, and executioner make slotting any 2h spammable a great idea; esp when its TT is higher than a class spammable
StaticWave wrote: »vdsa dualwield + rending slashes => dizzying swing anyday.
2h > dw because of rally, otherwise you’d see a lot more people using dw front bar.
you forgot to mention the stupid range that dizzy and the execute hits at. Oh you're behind the guy, don't worry, it still hits you. It's just dumb. Even it up, devs...
That is funny that you mentioned this. I remember reading about "counters to dizzying swing". The consensus among the elite PVPers is just run right through them and it cancels. Well unless it is totally different in PVE vs PVP on the hit mechanics. I tested this so many times, everytime I ran through a mob while casting dizzy it would cast behind me, to the side etc. The only way to avoid it is get like 15 meters out of range and even still with desync it will still most likely hit.
...and what about destro staff? The only choice for magicka? It's only PvE skill line.
TheEndBringer wrote: »I get it. On paper 2H seems a million times better but in game, on the right build, dw is a murder machine. You just have to play to it's strengths. I would never go 2h on my stamden, for example.
Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get it. On paper 2H seems a million times better but in game, on the right build, dw is a murder machine. You just have to play to it's strengths. I would never go 2h on my stamden, for example.
Could you elaborate please?
I'm really tired of 2h and would love to go dw but haven't found a working build.
Just throw some idea if you don't want to share your build.
TheEndBringer wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get it. On paper 2H seems a million times better but in game, on the right build, dw is a murder machine. You just have to play to it's strengths. I would never go 2h on my stamden, for example.
Could you elaborate please?
I'm really tired of 2h and would love to go dw but haven't found a working build.
Just throw some idea if you don't want to share your build.
I haven't set her up on proc yet because we just got it on XB and I've not gotten to that character but the skills won't change.
Flies -> sub assault -> spam spin to win is the nastiest thing you can do. You work other skills in there as necessary but many times you don't need to. Just keep your netch up and rotate heals as necessary. The benefit is you don't miss with spin to win because it's an aoe. Throw in their various CC capabilities to further hold targets in place while you go whirrrrr.
TheEndBringer wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get it. On paper 2H seems a million times better but in game, on the right build, dw is a murder machine. You just have to play to it's strengths. I would never go 2h on my stamden, for example.
Could you elaborate please?
I'm really tired of 2h and would love to go dw but haven't found a working build.
Just throw some idea if you don't want to share your build.
I haven't set her up on proc yet because we just got it on XB and I've not gotten to that character but the skills won't change.
Flies -> sub assault -> spam spin to win is the nastiest thing you can do. You work other skills in there as necessary but many times you don't need to. Just keep your netch up and rotate heals as necessary. The benefit is you don't miss with spin to win because it's an aoe. Throw in their various CC capabilities to further hold targets in place while you go whirrrrr.
I use master dw with rending as my main spammable on both stamcro and stamden.
Not really a fan of dizzy, never been and rending works well on both.
The dot is also nice extra pressure between burst combos, something neither class usually has a lot otherwise(at least not with the dizzy playstyle).
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »I get it. On paper 2H seems a million times better but in game, on the right build, dw is a murder machine. You just have to play to it's strengths. I would never go 2h on my stamden, for example.
Could you elaborate please?
I'm really tired of 2h and would love to go dw but haven't found a working build.
Just throw some idea if you don't want to share your build.
I haven't set her up on proc yet because we just got it on XB and I've not gotten to that character but the skills won't change.
Flies -> sub assault -> spam spin to win is the nastiest thing you can do. You work other skills in there as necessary but many times you don't need to. Just keep your netch up and rotate heals as necessary. The benefit is you don't miss with spin to win because it's an aoe. Throw in their various CC capabilities to further hold targets in place while you go whirrrrr.
I use master dw with rending as my main spammable on both stamcro and stamden.
Not really a fan of dizzy, never been and rending works well on both.
The dot is also nice extra pressure between burst combos, something neither class usually has a lot otherwise(at least not with the dizzy playstyle).
Master dw is nasty. I have the perfected set but I like have two five piece sets active and don't want to sacrifice a monster helm.