How is some food debuffing you, different than unequipping your gear? You're just nerfing yourself, however you achieve that.

And I've tried that. As others have said, "debuffing" the player character just makes boring stuff take longer. You might have to rolldodge and self-heal now and then, but in the end, it's not really dangerous to an experienced player. ESO is filled to the brim with random trash mobs that are meant to be one-shot by someone half-decent at the game. Slogging through a delve by slowly whittling down on trash (sorry, "base pop"), is simply not fun. I've partly played through Southern Elsweyr and Greymoor like that, and after a while, you'll be simply relieved to killnuke stuff to megadeth again because it is so very, very tedious and you'd like to get to the point of this stupid delve quest before the universe ends. Not to mention that inevitably, at some point some random guy will barge in and clear everything for you, leaving you to do sight-seeing in a dank cave.

Making overworld harder is not just a switch or a debuff. It would require to rethink and rework the entire mob layout. Newer (DLC) bosses are usually fine - they have mechanics and stuff. But basic trash and base game bosses need serious attention (= developer time = money).

And then, there's the question of who an "experienced player" is.
Someone who runs veteran dungeons in a group?
Someone who regularly does vMA?
Someone who tanks DLC trial achievements?
Someone who will solo a veteran dungeon?
All of these are experienced. Yet I'll bet a crate of beer that you won't find a sweet spot where content is "challenging" for all of them. Especially because the first group vastly outnumbers the others. But if soloing a dragon is your base line, you'll never be satisfied with an "overland hard mode" catering to the majority of "experienced players". And simply debuffing you more ties back into my first point.

As others have pointed out, player skill is the single most important difference between experienced and newer players. Gear is a bonus. Food and CP are nice to have. But whatever you do (except for a total mindwipe), you will never again experience this game like you did the first time. Because you've learnt its core rules, and how to play it. And you will know how to do that on a level 3 character.

So what to do?
If one-shotting quest bosses destroys your immersion, do not do it. Yes, you could. You don't need to prove that. Apply what you've learnt in all the pug runs and light-attack tickle the boss to a slow and funny death. After you've sped through all the trash, this is the time to nerf yourself. The game lets you do that. Decide for yourself when and where you want to do it.
Is that a perfect solution? Sure not. But it's just as flawed as every other solution.

Three of my guilds are "casual" guilds with a high new player membership, and I see regular requests for help with quest bosses. Some use food and potions and still can't handle bosses in prologue quests and the like. Most of them are pretty typical "new players" who came to ESO from Skyrim as many new players have.

Folks who want overland to be harder complain that those saying overland should stay easy are woefully underestimating the abilities of new players, but honestly there are a fair number of newbies who find it challenging enough. Those with previous MMO experience or who have already played ESO for years are a) obviously going to find it simple and easy, and b) likely not in casual beginner guilds to have an idea of how many people reach out for help with quest bosses in the first place.

This is not an argument that there shouldn't be a veteran overland mode if people want an extra challenge. It is just a statement that I have gone to help many new players smack down quest bosses after they have already died eight or nine times, and if the entire game was harder as a baseline a lot of those new players wouldn't get past the first ten levels before quitting.

GreenHere wrote: »

Chaquinho89 wrote: »

This game is built to appeal to it's majority player base, the roleplayers.
Personally I don't really mind it, the faster I can get those achievements done the faster I can get to do actual fun content.

This is not at all meant as a criticism or to mock you or anything like that; I'm genuinely curious and just kindly asking:

If you find the content boring, why do the associated Achievements?

As someone who wants the content itself to be engaging, and has little to no interest in Achievements, I'm interested to know your perspective on this.

Completionism

I think this entire discussion boils down to the consequences of scaling. I am so happy that i started this game before One Tamriel introduced scaling and (IMHO) dumbed down the game as a result.

I have never understood the logic of making low level characters OP at the expense of zones with differing difficulties.

Try Craglorn and see if you still can rule.

Everstorm wrote: »

Balancing 70-80% of your game around brand new players is just disrespecting your loyal player base. But I'm sure newer players are more likely to buy shinies from the crown store so here we are.

It's not just about new players, it's the price paid for One Tamriel to exist.

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

Three of my guilds are "casual" guilds with a high new player membership, and I see regular requests for help with quest bosses. Some use food and potions and still can't handle bosses in prologue quests and the like. Most of them are pretty typical "new players" who came to ESO from Skyrim as many new players have.

Folks who want overland to be harder complain that those saying overland should stay easy are woefully underestimating the abilities of new players, but honestly there are a fair number of newbies who find it challenging enough. Those with previous MMO experience or who have already played ESO for years are a) obviously going to find it simple and easy, and b) likely not in casual beginner guilds to have an idea of how many people reach out for help with quest bosses in the first place.

This is not an argument that there shouldn't be a veteran overland mode if people want an extra challenge. It is just a statement that I have gone to help many new players smack down quest bosses after they have already died eight or nine times, and if the entire game was harder as a baseline a lot of those new players wouldn't get past the first ten levels before quitting.

In my opinion, the problem is these new players didn't face an obstacle up to that boss that required them to prepare.

Did the group of mages who spent the whole fight channeling spells that would miss and casting aoes that are so pitifully small players can avoid them by standing still prepare them for a fight against a mage who does enough damage with their attacks that if you don't bash their channel or step out of their aoes you would die?
Or did the mobs doing a laughably weak uppercut teach them to block heavy blows, or that instead of blocking and healing they could instead just eat it because of how little threat it carried?

I say this because giving players a sense of what to expect, red aoe's bad, big dramatic lines shooting out of someone's face meaning large incoming damage, exc, if new players never are expected anything by the game, they never develop the 'skills' needed to face the game when expectations are placed on them.

(And to note, by skills I mean stuff like using heals, moving out of aoes, paying attention to the enemies you're fighting, since some people seem to think I'm expecting 100k+ parses from new players.)

I think difficulty levels for overland content must be implemented and they must not divide player base. The only cheap and fast option as i can see is placing debuff on player, who decided increase difficulty of overland content.
I think, that ZOS need make difficulty sliders in the game menu, which will place invisible debuff on player's character, similar to Vulnerability and Maim, debuff will be applied only in overland areas:
- normal -> x1.5 -> x2 -> x3 -> x5 -> x7 -> x10 more damage player receives from monsters except world bosses
- normal -> x1.5 -> x2 -> x3 -> x5 -> x7 -> x10 less damage player deals to monsters except world bosses
And, maybe, additionally (if it doesn't take long for the developers to mark all quest and delve bosses as a separate subclass):
- normal -> x1.5 -> x2 -> x3 -> x5 -> x7 -> x10 -> x15 -> x20 more damage player receives from delve bosses
- normal -> x1.5 -> x2 -> x3 -> x5 -> x7 -> x10 -> x15 -> x20 less damage player deals to delve bosses
- normal -> x1.5 -> x2 -> x3 -> x5 -> x7 -> x10 -> x15 -> x20 more damage player receives from quest bosses
- normal -> x1.5 -> x2 -> x3 -> x5 -> x7 -> x10 -> x15 -> x20 less damage player deals to quest bosses
Because quest and delve bosses have too low HP (so you often can't even see their mechanics) and need separate slider, it will also helps those players who don't want regular monsters to be stronger, but only quest or delve bosses.

Buff/Debuff system is already in game and will cost nothing to implement. Also i don't think that 6 more debuffs on character will drop performance in overland areas, especially that quest and delve debuffs could be applied only in specific areas.

No additional rewards or exp, because it will lead to exploits, feeling forced to do something and frustration. This sliders needed to adjust duration and lethality of the combat.

New players or those who enjoy game as it is now don't lose anything, they will just keep playing as it is. Farmers, chest runners, item hunters can also leave all as it is now, to not slow down their activities. But players who want more challenge in questing will be able to adjust difficulty according to their skill and role (Tank/Healer/DD). Tanks will increase damage taken, to feel more danger in fights, DDs will increase HP of monsters and bosses to have the opportunity at last see their skills and mechanics

In difficulty menu must be option to fast turn off and turn on previously set parameters, if player want to change activity.

This method of implementing difficulty levels for overland content has one flaw: some other player can just run in and kill all in a blink of an eye. So i think quest bosses must be in separate instances and there must be an option in menu to make first run of the delve in separate instance as well.

Also i am for story or solo mode for dungeons(without set items drop), but this is topic of another thread.

jaws343 wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Yeah but this a problem tho. He was level 6 with 3 pieces of gear on, he should have at least had to hit it 5 times.
There is make it easier for the newer people coming in to get them accustomed, and then there is spoon feeding it to the point you can take your hands off the keyboard and your pets can do all the work. Its ridiculous.

Im all for newer players having it easier than veterans, because of course you dont want to scare them off. But you can't just let them one hit and quit and thats a problem. People are coming over from other games, feeling like god's at lower levels, they get into one veteran and get absolute smacked and either quit or reroll low level characters forever. It's sad.

There is NO in between. I don't understand how people don't see others leaving because of this fact. I know 21 people personally who have left for other games since Blackwood launched simply because of how boring the game is for them because nothing is a middle ground challenge. It's all or nothing.

He was level 6...
With how much time experience in the game and how much CP tied to the account?

There is a huuuuge difference between a level 6 player who started the game yesterday and a level 6 player who is starting a new toon after months or years of experience. Players tend to hide behind their level when making these types of difficulty posts, as if their experienced player experience at level 6 is anywhere near comparable to a brand new player trying to do these story quests.

I dunno if this is always the case. I got my boyfriend to try the game at the beginning of last year. He's not a gamer, this is the first MMO he's played and the first game on the PS4 he bought. He got the hang of quests within like the first hour. Within a couple of days he was bored with quests because there was no challenge. This is someone who's never played a game like this before, or games in general. Plenty of new players complain the story is too easy, not just old players with new accounts.