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Thank you for ruining my gear
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luther_revan✭✭I though I would be able to go over it but after seeing my casual PVE solo/PUG tank builds... well it's easier said then done.
Everyone of them used different proc set to add a specific flavor to those character, and now I'm just discouraged when I check them.
Maybe I should not have take any screenshot before that patch XD. Or maybe I could go back to my healer and...oh no, same except the nerf are a bit better than halving the effects of the procs.
Luckily I still have golden stat set from 6 years ago but then it becomes again a game like any other.
The proc set where really fun and added a different flavor that distinguish ESO from the rest of the crowd, I still don't understand the decision here.
First the CP then this, it's time (for me) to step back a bit like every few years when they play with balance so violently.
I know the feeling too well over the years playing ESO, feel like a lost of the time I put in stuffing (even if the time itself was fun). It's their game and I'm aware that we should adapt but sometime the change is just too much to go over it over a few days.
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Stevie6✭✭✭✭I don’t pretend to know what others think, but I’ve been a scrub/lowbie/disabled average Joe since 2017 trying to chase the meta and getting nowhere. A lot of problems that players are experiencing are server related especially lag. You can’t have dps when your hvy or la don’t fire off. Smashing keys trying to get it to register. So yeah, there are players that have a legitimate gripe about damage and dps.
Raise the floor and lower the ceiling. Just wow...what happened? The best setup for players like me was the petsorc build prior to Morrowind fiasco. Only a couple of key presses and hvy attack are all that I can do. Now I had to come up with a hvy tank setup without a shield (shields are useless..if you die, you die). My setup lets me do some vet 1 content solo but at a slow pace.
What’s next? Chasing the meta is no longer on the radar. Companions is just a bad idea. All that damage and healing could have been rolled into the player’s skills. Nerfing any set is a bad idea..let the scrubs test it out for a few months instead of relying on the top 1% making that decision for you. They need to keep their hole shut for once..5 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow, thanks for speaking for me even though you're actually 100% wrong!PVers always utilize crit and not proc damage, why you complaining.
Plenty of PvEers like myself used proc sets over flat damage/stat sets because, you know, we prefer having builds we find fun over running Generic Meta Build Number 10 and grinding whatever Trial for whatever BiS gear has been released most recently. Do we hit the stupid DPS numbers a lot of people are obsessed with? No, but that doesn't matter because we can have fun our way and still reasonably clear the content we want to do. Or at least, we could.
Please don't act like you're the authority for how all PvEers play just because of how you or those you know play, or just because a good number of people follow the current FotM builds they got from someone like Alcast (no offense to Alcast he makes good builds for all kinds of skill levels).Edited by Arunei on June 4, 2021 1:21PMPC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time14 -
dvonpm✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »A few more heavy healer drop sets for pvp would be nice. If we are going to be forced into heavy to survive, at least some options would be nice...
I'm fine with my sad 30k mag pool and 2 or 3 body sets to choose from out of hundreds. I do ok. But I will never like it.
You are not forced into heavy armor to survive, in fact, I would say its the most useless armor in PvP right now.
You are, however, forced to learn how to roll and block if you want to use light armor.
Two things you should never have been able to ignore in the first place IMO.
More heavy healer sets to power ball groups even more in PvP and make healers less relevant in PVE?
Yeah, no. Hopefully if ZOS is reading no one takes that suggestion seriously.
In field fights, yes. It's why I hate the heavy. I dodge often and my main bar is snb, I block constantly.
However I spend a lot of time under siege bubbles where I need to have enough mag to purge and drop bubbles, and enough resists to withstand siege, bombers, and whatever player attacks there are. Dodging helps in siege, but only on the first proc no? I block cast constantly, my main bar is snb for that reason.
If you have a way of doing that successfully in light armor I'd love to hear it. I'd be happy to try it because I freaking hate the heavy.0 -
5_RAGEsMW✭✭✭
Wow, thanks for speaking for me even though you're actually 100% wrong!PVers always utilize crit and not proc damage, why you complaining.
Plenty of PvEers like myself used proc sets over flat damage/stat sets because, you know, we prefer having builds we find fun over running Generic Meta Build Number 10 and grinding whatever Trial for whatever BiS gear has been released most recently. Do we hit the stupid DPS numbers a lot of people are obsessed with? No, but that doesn't matter because we can have fun our way and still reasonably clear the content we want to do. Or at least, we could.
Please don't act like you're the authority for how all PvEers play just because of how you or those you know play, or just because a good number of people follow the current FotM builds they got from someone like Alcast (no offense to Alcast he makes good builds for all kinds of skill levels).
You see here is the problem. A buff to you is a mega buff to top tier players. BiS is BiS for a reason if you want to handicap yourself go ahead but do keep that in mind. Zos can only do so much hand holding before the top destroys their end game content. The game is too easy as it is already. Them nerfing procs is the least of your problems in my opinion they should nerf even more things! Like healing and stupidly tanky set ups.pvp sucks.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow, thanks for speaking for me even though you're actually 100% wrong!PVers always utilize crit and not proc damage, why you complaining.
Plenty of PvEers like myself used proc sets over flat damage/stat sets because, you know, we prefer having builds we find fun over running Generic Meta Build Number 10 and grinding whatever Trial for whatever BiS gear has been released most recently. Do we hit the stupid DPS numbers a lot of people are obsessed with? No, but that doesn't matter because we can have fun our way and still reasonably clear the content we want to do. Or at least, we could.
Please don't act like you're the authority for how all PvEers play just because of how you or those you know play, or just because a good number of people follow the current FotM builds they got from someone like Alcast (no offense to Alcast he makes good builds for all kinds of skill levels).
You see here is the problem. A buff to you is a mega buff to top tier players. BiS is BiS for a reason if you want to handicap yourself go ahead but do keep that in mind. Zos can only do so much hand holding before the top destroys their end game content. The game is too easy as it is already. Them nerfing procs is the least of your problems in my opinion they should nerf even more things! Like healing and stupidly tanky set ups.
What you describe is so far from what's happening here with proc sets that I'm at a bit of a loss for words.
1) The top tier was already using stat sets over proc sets, so a nerf to proc sets isn't doing anything to keep them in check.
2) The actual change that ZOS made is a buff to proc sets for certain top tier builds, while being a huge nerf for lesser builds.10 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would be nice just to have something balanced where stam and mag are at the same values...I don't see why one should be stronger one patch versus the other etc...
This doesn't really entice me into switching characters or making a new one either way.3 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lest we forget the words of ZoS: "This (proc scaling) will result in an overall buff for pve". LOLAngua Anyammis Ae Sunna5 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Lest we forget the words of ZoS: "This (proc scaling) will result in an overall buff for pve". LOL
I know right? I just don't understand how they can say this is a buff when it's clearly a nerf for a LOT of people except maybe weapon damage stacking stamina playersAll I need to know...will this kill ball groups?
Very doubtful. They'll just switch to using pure stat sets2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does anybody know whether Ancient Knowledge buffs procs?
If not, to me that's the issue, not the fact that Spell Damage is naturally lower than Weapon Damage.
Procs were supposed to scale more like skills. Skills are buffed by Ancient Knowledge. Procs should be as well.
I'd say focus on that rather than demanding Light and Medium have their passives homogenized.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭In games where you have PVE and PVP there are around four ways to resolve the issue of how changes impact both.
1) Gear and ability/skills function X way in PVE and function Y way in PVP
2) There are PVP only abilities and PVP only gear: there are PVE only abilities and PVE only gear.
3) A combination of 1 & 2
4) Everything works in PVE and PVP
I believe that #3 would be a good way to resolve it. First, gear should be limited to PVE or PVP only. Than modifying how abilities/skills function will provide even more balance. This will make PVP and PVE better. This will allow the devs to tweak gear/abilities to improve the player experience in both type of zones.
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Stam players already were kings of PvP. For 2 years now.ZoS is better than most though as I only had to make minimal tweeks for my Stamblade over the last couple expansion.
However, not by skill but by game design.
And the Oblivion patch is THE FINAL NAIL IN THE MAG COFFIN.
No mag toon is able to hold a flag anymore 1vs1 against my StamWarden since two years. And now with the Oblivion Patch my StamWarden even CAN USE all Mag proc sets which are USELESS NOW for MagPlayers. WHAT???
All they need to do is add spell damage to the light armor passives in the same way they added weapon damage to the medium armor passives. But that would be too easy, right?
Do the Fire/Shock Staff Damage Done passives buff proc damage?
Anything with a +% to damage done buffs proc damage. Brutality/Sorcery, Deadly Strike set, Malacath mythic, CP damage done buffs, Fighters Guild Slayer passive, etc. But only the highest value of the two (weapon damage or spell damage). It would have been much more fair to all players if they had made it the sum of your weapon and spell damage combined, rather than restricting it to one or the other.
Edited by Jaraal on June 4, 2021 7:10PM0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All I need to know...will this kill ball groups?
Consider the fact that Vicious Death (one of the main ball group counters) is a light armor set with a spell damage buff, and yet you can get it to do more damage by simply stacking weapon damage instead of spell damage. Clearly something is wrong with the balance between spell damage and weapon damage as it's applied to ZOS's new proc system.6 -
Iarao✭✭✭✭I thought the new Monster set Meta was Balorgh's anyway.
ZOS has been trying to answer the constant complaints of being one shot by proc users in PvP. Proc sets, which include Monster set procs, are the culprit and all they can feasibly do is drop the damage output down enough to where they're no longer an issue. This all started when Procs could no longer crit, but there's always going to be complaints. One side wants procs nerfed into the ground, the other side wants them to hit hard so their DPS is a fun number.
There's gonna be no win-win here.
or they can just ban monster sets in pvp. like they ban pets.3 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Lest we forget the words of ZoS: "This (proc scaling) will result in an overall buff for pve". LOL
They were talking about stamina lol3 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Lest we forget the words of ZoS: "This (proc scaling) will result in an overall buff for pve". LOL
They were talking about stamina lolSuna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Lest we forget the words of ZoS: "This (proc scaling) will result in an overall buff for pve". LOL
They were talking about stamina lol
*Cries in all mag characters*Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna3 -
ResidentContrarian wrote: »Pyrius_Omega wrote: »ZOS gives us scrubs some options....
1. Auto light attack in green CP tree..
2. Let us us TWO mythic items instead of one..
3. More base spell damage. ... 4000 is what we need to start with (pve)...
4. You can nerf the above for PVP..
Agree with this and adding some
5. Put PVP in a separate server. Let the PVPers have what they want and quit nerfing PVE.
6. Any ESO plus members should be able to have an unlimited bag/storage boxes. We pay a lot for what we get.
7. Keep all DLCs but reset game to pre Marrowind so that we can get back to business for PVE. Currently, ESO PVE players are getting the shaft. Gamers played for years to grow a character only to put up with changes that do not work consistently. Mage players need some love. They are now as useful as teats on a boar.
All this PvP blame for procs getting nerfed is silly. Before they changed the scaling, I saw a DPS increase using a non-crit proc build from my 30-40k on live to 45-50k consistently. That means there was a net DPS gain with the old, lower scaling.
Now, ZOS has been constantly nerfing DPS every patch (only to accidentally or maybe on purpose buff it more with certain sets)...Why exactly would they let such a massive increase in DPS, and consistent DPS go in PvE, esp. on builds that required no real rotation or sustain management -- two tools they use to balance the game and nerf players?
Apparently, the balance team doesn't want players to trivialize content. It was even possible to solo vet trials without sweating. That is exactly what proc scaling lead to when it first appeared on PTS and why players are mad about the nerf being too hard. But they know deep down inside that the scaling was counter to ZOS' apparent balancing goal and it was going to get nerfed one way or another.
How exactly is that linked to PvP?
Devs do what PVPers want which affects the way PVEers play. This is obvious. Devs been doing this over and over. A PVP player doesn't like something, they squawk. PVPers suffer the consequences. This is in every aspect. I'm not here to debate / argue anything. Just stating the obvious. Get us back to pre Marrowind.3 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You have completely killed monster sets for mag DDs, ZOS. This is terrible.
Kinda what they wanted. They have a passive aggressive way of communicating.1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I need to know...will this kill ball groups?
Consider the fact that Vicious Death (one of the main ball group counters) is a light armor set with a spell damage buff, and yet you can get it to do more damage by simply stacking weapon damage instead of spell damage. Clearly something is wrong with the balance between spell damage and weapon damage as it's applied to ZOS's new proc system.
This is my point about Ancient Knowledge. I don't know whether it works, but it if does:
In 7 Medium (no heavy) Stam gets a 14% bonus to one of the variables in the proc's tooltip
In whatever armor, but with a Lightning staff, Mag gets an 8% bonus to the damage done by the proc
The way people are talking about this scaling makes me feel like my opponents tooltips should go down when I cast Major Resolve and Major Protection. Tooltips are not combat text.
Maybe I've missed something, but to me the LA Pen bonus is comparable to the MA WD bonus. The Flame/Shock Staff passives are comparable to the Maul/Sword passives. Neither of the Mag bonuses appear in tooltips - both of the Stam do (with a Sword). So if you just look at the item, you'll definitely think Stam has an advantage, but it's an illusion.
Edited by Urzigurumash on June 5, 2021 4:31AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Maybe I've missed something, but to me the LA Pen bonus is comparable to the MA WD bonus. The Flame/Shock Staff passives are comparable to the Maul/Sword passives. Neither of the Mag bonuses appear in tooltips - both of the Stam do (with a Sword). So if you just look at the item, you'll definitely think Stam has an advantage, but it's an illusion.
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Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Maybe I've missed something, but to me the LA Pen bonus is comparable to the MA WD bonus. The Flame/Shock Staff passives are comparable to the Maul/Sword passives. Neither of the Mag bonuses appear in tooltips - both of the Stam do (with a Sword). So if you just look at the item, you'll definitely think Stam has an advantage, but it's an illusion.
I didn't watch all of this, it looks like it's an analysis of tooltip values
I don't see any comparison between comparable Mag and Stam builds regarding Damage Done
Does Ancient Knowledge buff procs or not?Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Maybe I've missed something, but to me the LA Pen bonus is comparable to the MA WD bonus. The Flame/Shock Staff passives are comparable to the Maul/Sword passives. Neither of the Mag bonuses appear in tooltips - both of the Stam do (with a Sword). So if you just look at the item, you'll definitely think Stam has an advantage, but it's an illusion.
I didn't watch all of this, it looks like it's an analysis of tooltip values
I don't see any comparison between comparable Mag and Stam builds regarding Damage Done
Does Ancient Knowledge buff procs or not?
I'm pretty sure Ancient Knowledge buffs procs, but it also definitely shows up in tooltips, so it doesn't really change any of the comparisons people are making.
As for the whole argument around penetration, it's kind of bogus.
1) From a PvP perspective, you also have to consider that anyone wearing light armor has reduced mitigation and takes extra damage from martial attacks. So, yeah, maybe the extra pen from light armor helps mag procs deal a little more damage than their tooltips might indicate, but that extra damage done is more than countered by extra damage taken whenever a mag build goes up against a stam build.
2) That video points out that stam builds have much greater access to minor breach than mag builds, and can also get penetration from maces/mauls, which (when combined) provide more pen than most mag builds get from light armor.
3) I've seen people bring up the Penetrating Magic passive in other threads, but it only reduces remaining resistances after penetration has been applied, so it doesn't usually have much effect.
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Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm pretty sure Ancient Knowledge buffs procs, but it also definitely shows up in tooltips, so it doesn't really change any of the comparisons people are making.
If Damage Done bonuses are being reflected in tooltips, then something is wrong. That makes no sense. No Damage has been Done, how could it be multiplied?
Look I'm just trying to isolate the real issue here. Never trust tooltips. You guys are all too experienced and knowledgeable to not know that.
If the real issue is the Armor Penalties, then there we go, let's move on to that subject. Again something we can't discern from tooltips. This MA WD vs LA Pen issue is nothing new, percentile vs flat bonuses.
Edited by Urzigurumash on June 5, 2021 6:06AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I could be wrong about everything / anything - my point isn't that I know I'm right that Mag and Stam are more equal in this matter than people are letting on - my point is quite simply that Tooltips alone are insufficient evidence to make any sort of determination.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
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yetUrzigurumash wrote: »I didn't watch all of this....I don't see any comparison between comparable Mag and Stam builds regarding Damage Done
Lol!
Proc damage (in most cases) scales with the higher of your weapon or spell damage. It is much easier to stack weapon damage than spell damage. Penetration is simply the chance to bypass resistances. Yes, penetration indirectly affects the amount of damage done, from any source. But the base damage of (most) procs is calculated by weapon or spell damage only.
Example = 7,000 weapon damage will make Zaan, Grothdarr, Vicious Death, or any other magic based proc hit harder than 6,500 spell damage. It's not logical, but it's how it is. And yes, your penetration will affect the proc damage tooltip as well. Always has.
Edited by Jaraal on June 5, 2021 6:52AM2 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm pretty sure Ancient Knowledge buffs procs, but it also definitely shows up in tooltips, so it doesn't really change any of the comparisons people are making.
If Damage Done bonuses are being reflected in tooltips, then something is wrong. That makes no sense. No Damage has been Done, how could it be multiplied?
Nothing is wrong. Percent damage and healing bonuses have shown up in tooltips for as long as I can remember, and the commutative property tells us that the order in which multiplicative effects (like % damage bonuses and mitigation) are applied doesn't affect the final result anyway.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cook me up a video of a nearly equivalent Mag and Stam toon hitting their proc against a player in the same setup and you can convince me. A static image of a guy in a Balorgh hat is uncompelling.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »
Does Malacath change tooltips?
Base damage is not final damage. Tooltips are not combat text. Does Ancient Knowledge buff procs or not? Is it reflected in procs' tooltips or not? Log on and check it out. I don't know if Build Editor is accurate here.
If you're barking up the wrong tree about what's wrong with Mag vs Stam balance, the problem won't be properly fixed. Right?
Edited by Urzigurumash on June 5, 2021 7:23AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45TaFTeCAOg