Thank you for ruining my gear

universal_wrath · June 2021

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

I think as a community we can all agree the balancing PvE and PvP is proven to be too difficult and along with balancing mag and stam builds.

I've made this comment a while ago on a PTS thread regarding Proc sets. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7226378#Comment_7226378.

I hope if we complain enough, ZOS will do something about it.

It is not difficult if you balance separately. You cannot expect diffirent builds and classes to function similarly unless if you have unified skills. As far as I know, there are 6 classes and moee than 60 unique skills that work differently depending on the morph. What is zos is trying to do is something like this => they take a skill like crystal weapon skill and try to make it deal the same damage as surprised attack. Then they make surprised attack deal same damage as flurry or whip. You end up with 5 skills from 4 unique skill line that do about the same thing or damage, only different is maybe this one is adding 5% pen or minor buff/debuff. Only different visually but same by numbers and power.

Waffennacht · June 2021

Way too late to be complaining about this now

the1andonlyskwex · June 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

Way too late to be complaining about this now

Just wait for the change to hit consoles, where people don't have access to the PTS.

Klad · June 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Klad wrote: »

ZoS is better than most though as I only had to make minimal tweeks for my Stamblade over the last couple expansion.

Stam players already were kings of PvP. For 2 years now.
However, not by skill but by game design.
And the Oblivion patch is THE FINAL NAIL IN THE MAG COFFIN.

No mag toon is able to hold a flag anymore 1vs1 against my StamWarden since two years. And now with the Oblivion Patch my StamWarden even CAN USE all Mag proc sets which are USELESS NOW for MagPlayers. WHAT???

Okay...so they will nerf Stam's all to hell in the next patch or two, and Stam players will be gnashing their teeth and shaking their fist at the world.... Same as it ever was.

Here is an idea since Theorycrafting sucks so hard, why don't the devs stop it with these convoluted systems that only Rain Man can figure out, Honestly give the players one or two builds to choose from and balance the overworld, PVE, PVP, and Trails challenge behind the scenes instead of having yet another Graphical Spreadsheet that mislables itself as a online RPG.

Now here is my message to @ZOS_RichLambert and the rest of the devs.

Theorycrafters have a metric ton of games they can minmax till their hearts content. Have the balls to be different ...you broke from the pack when you firmly said "No we are not a MMORPG, we are a online RPG"

Stop the Minmax madness that few actually understand and make the math more important than what you're physically doing in the game, most of us want to go on an adventure with our friends, not to have to figure out or copy paste these convoluted tables that play off each esoteric addition/detraction.

Yeah there might be a super sword type in some tomb somewhere, but knowing it's elven steel is much more immersive than knowing the 0000000.1 percentage to hit and if it gets that double damage if you are wearing a TuTu.

Let the flames fly y'all, you're not going to convince me otherwise, and I'm not alone.

etchedpixels · June 2021

Klad wrote: »

Theorycrafters have a metric ton of games they can minmax till their hearts content. Have the balls to be different ...you broke from the pack when you firmly said "No we are not a MMORPG, we are a online RPG"

Stop the Minmax madness that few actually understand and make the math more important than what you're physically doing in the game, most of us want to go on an adventure with our friends, not to have to figure out or copy paste these convoluted tables that play off each esoteric addition/detraction.

Yeah there might be a super sword type in some tomb somewhere, but knowing it's elven steel is much more immersive than knowing the 0000000.1 percentage to hit and if it gets that double damage if you are wearing a TuTu.

Let the flames fly y'all, you're not going to convince me otherwise, and I'm not alone.

It's a large MMORPG. Economics demands it is all of these things at once. It's not really hard. If you are not going to play non end game content it didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. If you can point a weapon in roughly the right direction, know what block is and don't stand in the red circles all afternoon you'll be able to finish almost all overland solo and story content in any vaguely ok gear.

The problem IMHO this time was that they botched the tuning when folks demonstrated crazy builds that abused it. They could have capped it, or made the boost non-linear so that having 8000 weapon damage didn't actually give you insane proc sets and that would have avoided the whole problem. As it is instead of flattening the end game they've done the reverse by making some very specific setups required to use most of the in gear game, and making those setups worse than everyone wearing the same two sets, and totally breaking monster helms.

the1andonlyskwex · June 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

Klad wrote: »

Theorycrafters have a metric ton of games they can minmax till their hearts content. Have the balls to be different ...you broke from the pack when you firmly said "No we are not a MMORPG, we are a online RPG"

Stop the Minmax madness that few actually understand and make the math more important than what you're physically doing in the game, most of us want to go on an adventure with our friends, not to have to figure out or copy paste these convoluted tables that play off each esoteric addition/detraction.

Yeah there might be a super sword type in some tomb somewhere, but knowing it's elven steel is much more immersive than knowing the 0000000.1 percentage to hit and if it gets that double damage if you are wearing a TuTu.

Let the flames fly y'all, you're not going to convince me otherwise, and I'm not alone.

It's a large MMORPG. Economics demands it is all of these things at once. It's not really hard. If you are not going to play non end game content it didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. If you can point a weapon in roughly the right direction, know what block is and don't stand in the red circles all afternoon you'll be able to finish almost all overland solo and story content in any vaguely ok gear.

The problem IMHO this time was that they botched the tuning when folks demonstrated crazy builds that abused it. They could have capped it, or made the boost non-linear so that having 8000 weapon damage didn't actually give you insane proc sets and that would have avoided the whole problem. As it is instead of flattening the end game they've done the reverse by making some very specific setups required to use most of the in gear game, and making those setups worse than everyone wearing the same two sets, and totally breaking monster helms.

When you put it like that, it almost sounds like the devs subscribe to the theory that optimal balance is achieved when one build outperforms everything else so severely that everyone even remotely trying to be competitive has to run that build.

Klad · June 2021

It's a large MMORPG.

Tomato Tamato

Economics demands it is all of these things at once. It's not really hard. If you are not going to play non end game content it didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. If you can point a weapon in roughly the right direction, know what block is and don't stand in the red circles all afternoon you'll be able to finish almost all overland solo and story content in any vaguely ok gear.

That's not really accurate GW2 is a big MMO and the only Theorycrafting they have is WVW and even then it has few options. Also You should play with my cousins sometimes

it will make you rethink that opinion and there are more folks like this than you think.

Also have you met the forums lord and savior's Difficulty slider and Make overland harder? I don't mind a challenge ( I have all the dark Souls games to prove it ) But sometimes most players want to come home from work or school and chill gathering mats or playing the story. Theorycrafting and the plausible abolition of casual content is a concern. ESO is for bad or worse about as difficult as the average TES game...and a small but very vocal group is determined to ride the devs until they give in.

The problem IMHO this time was that they botched the tuning when folks demonstrated crazy builds that abused it. They could have capped it, or made the boost non-linear so that having 8000 weapon damage didn't actually give you insane proc sets and that would have avoided the whole problem. As it is instead of flattening the end game they've done the reverse by making some very specific setups required to use most of the in gear game, and making those setups worse than everyone wearing the same two sets, and totally breaking monster helms.

This is a good point and yeah I kinda hijacked the thread (sorry bout that) it's just theorycrafting good or the Devil is a large topic in my not so small guild lately as is Theorycrafting in general. I hope they find a amical solution.

also sorry about the weird formatting Multi quote is wigging out again

Psiion · June 2021

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Rebirthment · June 2021

My storm tank basically got gutted with thunderbug and overwhelming surge now doing tickle damage

Alaztor91 · June 2021

Why didn't ZOS make them scale with both Spell/Weapon Damage AND Magicka/Stamina(same deal with heal sets), like a 50/50 split idk. It's kinda ridiculous that Magicka sets like Skoria or Maw are now stronger on a Stamina toon, and the fact that damage proc sets outnumber the healing proc sets like 5 to 1 also doesn't help.

Anyron · June 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

Way too late to be complaining about this now

We have been complaining about this for 5 pts weeks
And what changed? They did the worst thing they could do.. Raise the floor.. Fixed like kids homework 5 minutes before math hour..

PigofSteel · June 2021

Chaquinho89 wrote: »

ZOS devs either don't know or don't want to separate PVP from PVE gear-wise which results in always disfavoring PVE players.
It's a shame, but then again gives us some reason to not bother farming gear as often since it's almost guaranteed to be nerfed in a patch or two from now.

PVP players have to buy new content to get op items too you know? More people more profit its biznis. Nothing wrong here.

BalticBlues · June 2021

Rebirthment wrote: »

My storm tank basically got gutted with thunderbug and overwhelming surge now doing tickle damage

Mine too. This was the No.1 wish of the PvP crowd.
"TANKS MUST NOT DO ANY DAMAGE"
Now we can only stand still, block and hope for help from outside.

"Ugly tank resistance finally nerfed into OBLIVION. Now become my PvP kill of the day on Youtube."

Aertew · June 2021

ArchMikem wrote: »

I thought the new Monster set Meta was Balorgh's anyway.

ZOS has been trying to answer the constant complaints of being one shot by proc users in PvP. Proc sets, which include Monster set procs, are the culprit and all they can feasibly do is drop the damage output down enough to where they're no longer an issue. This all started when Procs could no longer crit, but there's always going to be complaints. One side wants procs nerfed into the ground, the other side wants them to hit hard so their DPS is a fun number.

There's gonna be no win-win here.

Sadly true. But reading the OP's post it seems the set is almost useless. Also there is a limit to how hard you nerf it. If proc sets are hit that hard people will just run stat armor and proc sets will be dead. A good fix is to either:

make them scale off of max magicka and stamina

Tweak the numbers so magicka sets perform equally to stamina sets

Revert the update on proc sets entirely.

As long as the devs did a honest post, like.
"We heard players complain about proc sets outputting so much DPS for too little effort and we wanted to fix that. However we made a mistake in having magicka sets scale with spell power which unfairly nerfed magicka based sets. We will revert the change and hopefully come across a better solution for this problem."

If they said something like that I would be fine with the update being reverted. People will probably mock them and complain but you cant please everybody and its ok if the devs make mistakes.

Lady_Galadhiel · June 2021

While I agree with the people who say that stuff has to change in an MMO in order to keep it interesting,but imho ESO is changing stuff way too often.
Before anyone can adapt to the new changes they already nerf,buff or change something else.If not gear than it's skills,or race passives,or CP changes.
No wonder there are so many casual players around,I mean who wants to adapt each few weeks to something else?
As casual I include myself because at some point I said to myself efff it,I stay with my toons and won't bother to change anything on them,no matter if it is good or bad.
I do not chase end game so at some point it does not matter to me if i use the BiS gear or not.

Elo106 · June 2021

Nastassiya wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

We reported this early on, stacking Weapon damage and max Mag is much easier than stacking Spell damage and max Stam
sets should scale accordingly.

No Zos response as per usual, no dev comment regarding the issue. Do they not know or care?
Atleast they admit to poor communication, a shame they dont want to do anything about it.

With all the hateful speech that comes out of this forum I wouldn't come here to read any thread if I was a Bethesda dev. I'm 99% sure they only come here if a mod tells them there is a serious problem.

If they would respond at all we wouldnt have countless threads on the same topic, them not giving reasoning on these, what seem like random changes make them look like they have no idea about their own game. More dev interaction would lead to less toxic forums.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Way too late to be complaining about this now

We complained about this at the start of PTS, several threads about the issue, no response as per usual.

ResidentContrarian · June 2021

Since ZOS did not make changes on PTS input, one can imagine that they want to target crit stacking in PvE as the "exclusive" way to do damage.

Now if you want to use proc sets in any form, you have to somewhat build for it and lose either sustain or crit -- something that proc sets gave you along with damage, at the expense of armor slots. Now, it is at the expense of armor slots and some other stat -- more than likely crit or sustain.

It was probably done to prevent a net DPS gain in PvE, when they are continuously trying to nerf damage there.

Integral1900 · June 2021

Even before this current patch any build you found for magic was using mothers sorrow, right now I’m so sick of hearing about that set I’ve hid it in a trunk in my house to stop me deleting the damn thing, the frustrating thing is the previous patch was great for people who wanted to build characters that were off the normal path, the options had never been better, now the pendulum swung in the opposite direction, if they want us to all play the same boring, yawn inducing meta builds why don’t they just come out and say it?

Also, if anyone from officialdom read this, I would advise you to take a stroll around Shadowfen at peak time and you will see the kind of rage and aggression in the zone chart that I have never seen in this game before

BalticBlues · June 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Since ZOS did not make changes on PTS input, one can imagine that they want to target crit stacking in PvE as the "exclusive" way to do damage.

Crit stacking in PvE now is THE ONLY WAY to do mag damage. Proc damage for mag players now is so low that crit sets like Medusa/FalseGod&MotherSorrow are ALWAYS the BEST and ONLY reasonable PvE solution.

IMHO Update 30 is the WORST COMBAT PATCH EVER released.

Update 30 destroys PvP balance completely now that only Stam can use ProcSets
Update 30 destroys PvE ProcSets completely for MagBuilds, now only CritSets make sense
Update 30 destroys PvE Mag/Stam ProcSets completely for Tanks, now only HealthSets make sense

RESULT: LESS BALANCE - LESS OPTIONS - LESS FUN

cyberjanet · June 2021

There was a thread asking when a PvP DLC would come out, and the general opinion was that there are too few PvP players to make that worthwhile. Imperial City was a PvP DLC and it flopped.

Why then, if PvP is a minority in the playing/paying group, are all the PvE sets nerfed to keep PvP players happy?

Just bring out the PvP DLC. I'm not interested in PvP, I don't have the playing skill to enjoy it. but at least another PvP DLC will give some justification to all these nerfs.

ResidentContrarian · June 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Since ZOS did not make changes on PTS input, one can imagine that they want to target crit stacking in PvE as the "exclusive" way to do damage.

Crit stacking in PvE now is THE ONLY WAY to do mag damage. Proc damage for mag players now is so low that crit sets like Medusa/FalseGod&MotherSorrow are ALWAYS the BEST and ONLY reasonable PvE solution.

IMHO Update 30 is the WORST COMBAT PATCH EVER released.
Update 30 destroys PvP balance completely now that only Stam can use ProcSets

Update 30 destroys PvE mag proc sets completely for MagBuilds, now only CritSets make sense

Update 30 destroys PvE mag/stam proc sets completely for Tanks, now only HealthSets make sense

I'd say that's a bit overstated. None of my proc builds lost damage, but then again they weren't exclusively stacking crit and had WD/SD since I used in PvP as well anyway.

Also keep in mind that not all sets were affected and/or changed in the same way.

Also that you can still build for procs, but you cannot have it all like before. (well yes you can but that is top secret)

BalticBlues · June 2021

cyberjanet wrote: »

Why then, if PvP is a minority in the playing/paying group, are all the PvE sets nerfed to keep PvP players happy?

Because of Youtube where PvP Stam players dominate.
YouTube is very important for ZOS to generate visits and income.
So if a PvP Stam player cannot kill someone, there must be a fault in game design.
So ZOS for two years now buffed Stam to the point that there are 90% StamPlayers in PvP.

However, some Stam players still die occasionally to the Last of the Mag Mohicans.
Moreover, some Stam players even die to a few tanks with Crimson.
So there must be a another fault in game design.

So with Update 30 ZOS went to extremes to save the 90% Stam crowd on YouTube:

mag/stam ProcSets nerfed for Tanks to the point of uselessness
mag ProcSets nerfed for Mag to the point of uselessness
mag ProcSets buffed for Stam to the point of usefulness

Success: Soon ZOS can see 95% successful PvP StamPlayers showing their "Skills" on YouTube.

Grandchamp1989 · June 2021

I just find it extremely disheartening that regardless of class/race/content it's the same go-to crit sets that are now head and shoulder's above anything else.

Mag clone: Mother Sorrow/Medusa
Stam Clone: Relequen/Kinra
Arena Backbar weapon

GG

Why even bother with 200+ sets when they're not even competitive but actually gets worse every patch?

Huyen · June 2021

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Yep, this is BS. Grothdarr does 667 damage when it procs.
Illambris does around 800.

If you want to pull top-tier DPS on a mag toon you're basically stuck with MS, Medusa, and two crit pieces or the waders. Boring as hell. We're using sets that are about as old as the game is.

You have completely killed monster sets for mag DDs, ZOS. This is terrible.

Hence I switched to stamina instead, and stopped magicka dps / healing completely.

Gylzyn · June 2021

For general pottering about overland, it probably doesn't matter what you wear much. But as soon as you start to get into more challenging content (DLC dungeons, arenas, vet content, etc) or start to get into more serious gear building then choices narrow.

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I just find it extremely disheartening that regardless of class/race/content it's the same go-to crit sets that are now head and shoulder's above anything else.

Mag clone: Mother Sorrow/Medusa
Stam Clone: Relequen/Kinra
Arena Backbar weapon

GG

Why even bother with 200+ sets when they're not even competitive but actually gets worse every patch?

Completely agree. There is all this potential variety within ESO but now every Mag build that I see suggested is MS/Medusa/arena backbar and always staves.

Septimus_Magna · June 2021

Tannus15 wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

Like, on one hand I understand the annoyance of your gear getting hard nerfed for no reason.

On the other hand, what's new? It's not like build diversity existed prior to this patch either.

This is the worst I've seen. They've killed Zaan, Skoria, Grothdarr, Illambris, Nerien'eth... among a bunch of others; those are the sets I use(d) on my mag DDs, though.

Tannus15 wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Yep, this is BS. Grothdarr does 667 damage when it procs.
Illambris does around 800.

If you want to pull top-tier DPS on a mag toon you're basically stuck with MS, Medusa, and two crit pieces or the waders. Boring as hell. We're using sets that are about as old as the game is.

You have completely killed monster sets for mag DDs, ZOS. This is terrible.

No one will be running monster sets in top tier dps anyway. It will be 1pc slimecraw and harpooner's kilt.

@jrgray93 isn't 1pc skoria pen? mag doesn't need pen anyway, which is why no one has been running skoria for ages regardless.

Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make. I predict that the waders are going to go the way of the Thrassian Stranglers soon, however.

they should buff the 2pc monster set bonuses. It should never be the case that 2 1pc bonuses are stronger than the full set imo.

Or at least change the scaling rate so the initial dmg starts higher but scales up less.

Idinuse · June 2021

jrgray93 wrote: »

Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.

Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.

Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.

I remember when Patch Day was a feast here on the Forum. About 4 years ago it rather became a day that put a knot in your belly. A day to dread.

So far nothing has changed from that. :'(

The Uninvited · June 2021

This is just ZOS being ZOS. I'vr said it before and I'll say it again.

When PVP players say "hey, this set seems a bit OP. Could you tone it down a bit?" we mean like tone it down by say 25%.

ZOS response: " We'll tone it down by 60% and see how that goes."

JTD · June 2021

Gylzyn wrote: »

Completely agree. There is all this potential variety within ESO but now every Mag build that I see suggested is MS/Medusa/arena backbar and always staves.

#sarcasm. What do you mean it's great that my 3 dd chars magcro, magplar and magblade are all running around in identical gear in identical slots. They all feel unique and have their own identity.

Except theyr really don't....
Make sets pair with classes and make classes more diverse. But that would mean putting in the effort. It's ok to have different (BIS ouch touchy subject) sets for ST/Aoe/Etc...

Hallothiel · June 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I just find it extremely disheartening that regardless of class/race/content it's the same go-to crit sets that are now head and shoulder's above anything else.

Mag clone: Mother Sorrow/Medusa
Stam Clone: Relequen/Kinra
Arena Backbar weapon

GG

Why even bother with 200+ sets when they're not even competitive but actually gets worse every patch?

Exactly.

Makes things dull & boring. No more interesting non-meta builds. 😕

Why do they ALWAYS use a sledgehammer to crack a nut? 🤯