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Remove the damage taken penalty from light armor
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superryan94✭✭✭TLDR
I have been calculating the mitigation everything gives and takes for the last 2 months.
The armor bonus/penalty is vastly overestimated.
Assuming you have 14K resistance, 2 stage prep, hardy and elemental aegis, 5 stages duelists rebuff and block, there is less than 665 damage difference between 7 heavy and 7 light pieces if you do not have any buff active.
This is not the 14% difference you would expect (7%+ and 7%-) but only a difference of 6.6% in total.
You'll notice the biggest difference if you take all the damage without any mitigation, but if you have some CP in mitigation the effect of the armor penalty/bonus goes down by a lot.1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭superryan94 wrote: »TLDR
I have been calculating the mitigation everything gives and takes for the last 2 months.
The armor bonus/penalty is vastly overestimated.
Assuming you have 14K resistance, 2 stage prep, hardy and elemental aegis, 5 stages duelists rebuff and block, there is less than 665 damage difference between 7 heavy and 7 light pieces if you do not have any buff active.
This is not the 14% difference you would expect (7%+ and 7%-) but only a difference of 6.6% in total.
You'll notice the biggest difference if you take all the damage without any mitigation, but if you have some CP in mitigation the effect of the armor penalty/bonus goes down by a lot.
How would you have the same 14k physical resistance in 7 light or 7 heavy? And what base hit are you assuming to get that 665 damage difference?6 -
superryan94✭✭✭Base hit was 10K(though I put that in, my bad).
It was a side by side comparison about the armor bonus/penalty, not counting for the weight of the armor itself.
0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭superryan94 wrote: »TLDR
I have been calculating the mitigation everything gives and takes for the last 2 months.
The armor bonus/penalty is vastly overestimated.
Assuming you have 14K resistance, 2 stage prep, hardy and elemental aegis, 5 stages duelists rebuff and block, there is less than 665 damage difference between 7 heavy and 7 light pieces if you do not have any buff active.
This is not the 14% difference you would expect (7%+ and 7%-) but only a difference of 6.6% in total.
You'll notice the biggest difference if you take all the damage without any mitigation, but if you have some CP in mitigation the effect of the armor penalty/bonus goes down by a lot.
Yes, but not everyone plays in CP where free mitigation grows on trees.3 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭superryan94 wrote: »TLDR
I have been calculating the mitigation everything gives and takes for the last 2 months.
The armor bonus/penalty is vastly overestimated.
Assuming you have 14K resistance, 2 stage prep, hardy and elemental aegis, 5 stages duelists rebuff and block, there is less than 665 damage difference between 7 heavy and 7 light pieces if you do not have any buff active.
This is not the 14% difference you would expect (7%+ and 7%-) but only a difference of 6.6% in total.
You'll notice the biggest difference if you take all the damage without any mitigation, but if you have some CP in mitigation the effect of the armor penalty/bonus goes down by a lot.
Really good write-up.0 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭superryan94 wrote: »TLDR
I have been calculating the mitigation everything gives and takes for the last 2 months.
The armor bonus/penalty is vastly overestimated.
Assuming you have 14K resistance, 2 stage prep, hardy and elemental aegis, 5 stages duelists rebuff and block, there is less than 665 damage difference between 7 heavy and 7 light pieces if you do not have any buff active.
This is not the 14% difference you would expect (7%+ and 7%-) but only a difference of 6.6% in total.
You'll notice the biggest difference if you take all the damage without any mitigation, but if you have some CP in mitigation the effect of the armor penalty/bonus goes down by a lot.
Really good write-up.
Good what ? No any proofs or screens ? For sure light=heavy that why tanks wear light and attacker didn't had any penetration5 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »superryan94 wrote: »TLDR
I have been calculating the mitigation everything gives and takes for the last 2 months.
The armor bonus/penalty is vastly overestimated.
Assuming you have 14K resistance, 2 stage prep, hardy and elemental aegis, 5 stages duelists rebuff and block, there is less than 665 damage difference between 7 heavy and 7 light pieces if you do not have any buff active.
This is not the 14% difference you would expect (7%+ and 7%-) but only a difference of 6.6% in total.
You'll notice the biggest difference if you take all the damage without any mitigation, but if you have some CP in mitigation the effect of the armor penalty/bonus goes down by a lot.
Really good write-up.
Good what ? No any proofs or screens ? For sure light=heavy that why tanks wear light and attacker didn't had any penetration
You should respond with your suggestions to the post I was commenting on, not mine.1 -
SimonBelmont✭✭✭100% no. The "wizard-archetype" is over-represented in ESO by about 10-fold (when ES cannon is considered). If you want to play a game where "ranged-everything" is the obvious meta, go play an FPS.
So many Robes and Staves equipped around here, one would think this is Harry Potter Online.
Edited by SimonBelmont on June 2, 2021 11:47AM3 -
Xarc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭play a breton, or nord
Edited by Xarc on June 2, 2021 11:08AM@xarcs FR-EU-PC -"Death is overrated", Xarc
Xãrc -- breton necro - DC - AvA rank50
Xarcus -- imperial DK - DC - AvA rank50 - pureclass DK
Xärc -- breton NB - DC - AvA rank49 - pureclass NB
Elnaa - breton NB - DC - AvA rank50 - healer
Isilenil - Altmer NB - AD - AvA rank41 - pureclass NB
Felisja - Bosmer NB - DC - AvA rank43 - pureclass NB
Sarah Cénia - Bosmer DK - DC - AvA rank23
Glàdys - redguard templar - DC - AvA rank40 - pureclass Templar
Xaljaa - breton NB - now EP - AvA rank40
Coquelìcot - breton NB - EP - AvA rank26
+ 10 other characters
* in game: since April 2014
* forum: since December 20140 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash4 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭
Did you ever step in pvp ?SimonBelmont wrote: »So many Robes and Staves equipped around here, one would think this is Harry Potter Online.
9 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
Edited by Urzigurumash on June 2, 2021 8:12PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
superryan94✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »
Good what ? No any proofs or screens ? For sure light=heavy that why tanks wear light and attacker didn't had any penetration
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13qLcGi_8vxbRC22fdCcFlP2g-X1fQOZb1DYrnjO2wLk/edit#gid=287341575
Here you can see the actual mitigation or added damage of different stats.
3 months of testing to get the exact values out of every calculation. It's not for pvp yet, so no crit resist. But for all other things it's 100% accurate.
I'm no professional writer so making a good write-up is not my thing, but I do know how the mitigation works.
And if you really want, I have a ton of testings with all the corresponding numbers saved somewhere in case I need to show evidence. But I think it's faster to try and compare yourself.
0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree that heavy and medium armor is in a way better spot then light armor.
PC EU
PvP only6 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
Edited by Anyron on June 2, 2021 11:13PM9 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭A more reasonable armor balance system could be...
Light amor: receive higher damage from stamina attacks
Medium armor: receive higher damage from magicka attacks
Heavy armor: should not receive any damage penalty but mobility and cost penalities.No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.6 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LightYagami wrote: »A more reasonable armor balance system could be...
Light amor: receive higher damage from stamina attacks
Medium armor: receive higher damage from magicka attacks
Heavy armor: should not receive any damage penalty but mobility and cost penalities.
This is what I think should be done as well though I wouldn't want to put cost penalties on tanks since that's harmful for PvE. I'd make it mobility and damage done instead.2 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Don't ignore Magicka build's long range attack advantage.
Remember that Magicka build have a very powerful Shield skill.
Don't try to be immortal.
All players should die in PvP.
Tell me more about this range advantage my magDK has over a bow/bow stamBlade.
Please and also tell me about this powerful shield you are talking about. Ty1 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭I might be in the minority, but I play light armor builds at base resistances and never bother using shields.
With roll and block being better accessible with LA passives, I do not find it hard to survive.
My solution to ZOS nerfing defense was to just get more healing, more % reduction, more damage and more mobility.
While that works to a degree, I cannot deny that I haven't been annoyed by the fact stam builds can stack damage, sustain, and even healing on some builds, with little to no penalty.
While I am sweating they always seem in control until they die. It is not balanced, despite what some players might claim.
In fact, I got annoyed the other day and changed to a stam build of the exact same class, with a similar emphasis on build, and it was so easy that players started avoiding me in general - not just the NBs...
But ZOS can keep the armor nerfed or keep nerfing mag for whatever reason and players can cheer them on; it's not going to change much or anything for me because I will still run mag @ base defense without shields.
Game is way too boring to be shielding all the time, esp. when it's a fruitless endeavor. Anyone cheering that mag has an innate disadvantage, you should be careful. What happens when every mag build goes complete offense and builds to use the offensive and defensive mechanics of stam players like I do?
I know what will happen, those same players will start complaining that mag is too strong for taking advantage of stam techniques. Already happens in the hate tells...1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.6 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).2 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
TL;DR: the skill is trash5 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
Crazy, thanks for the correction, the tooltip actually seems to be accurately worded, at least now, I think had just heard wrong about how it worked. That does seem quite weak. That makes a lot more sense why everybody is still complaining about not having a proper execute on mDK. My bad @Andre_Noir , I should've looked more carefully at that co-efficients list about this skill. And of course tested it in combat, never trust any tooltips. Incidentally and unrelated Malacath is now being reflected in tooltips after this update, it never was for me before. Still doesn't quite make sense that it should be with what I understood about how damage in this game was calculated, but obviously that understanding was wrong or outdated.
Edited by Urzigurumash on June 10, 2021 7:34PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
If we're still speaking in PvP terms if you're gonna use Flame Pulsar in Cyro as a magDK, you might as well just die. And in PvE terms, it's just better to spam unstable wall.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
TL;DR: the skill is trashYandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
If we're still speaking in PvP terms if you're gonna use Flame Pulsar in Cyro as a magDK, you might as well just die. And in PvE terms, it's just better to spam unstable wall.
It's a ball group skill and it's good at what it does.
Obviously, using it as a spammable in solo or small-scale play isn't a good idea and I agree with the general statement that "MagDK still doesn't have an execute." At that point you're using an ability that's 50+% more expensive than alternative spammables on a class that already has horrible sustain which isn't worth it at all versus, say, Power Lash.
But if you find yourself in a ball group and are routinely catching 4-8 players in the radius per cast, then you're doing good damage AND casting the ability for free or even gaining Magicka for casting it, which is amazing.0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »RedFireDisco wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Don't ignore Magicka build's long range attack advantage.
Remember that Magicka build have a very powerful Shield skill.
Don't try to be immortal.
All players should die in PvP.
Tell me more about this range advantage my magDK has over a bow/bow stamBlade.
To be fair, only now have this as opposed to all staff users
...and no Stam shield
Bone shield. Sword and board shield.
You should try it.
You can't understand how weak it is until you actually use it.
so it seems you cant understand how magica "shields" are weak, it doesnt matter how much max magica you have to scale for this shield - it will be capped on your 50% health anyway and still have weak resists from light armor
if you dont know for aroudn 25k health magica player his shield will be 1 shotted by stam player, 2 shotted at best whiel single cast of this shield (4.1k magica) will cost 2 casts of stamina spammable (around 2k stamina I guess)1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Andre_Noir wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
TL;DR: the skill is trashYandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
If we're still speaking in PvP terms if you're gonna use Flame Pulsar in Cyro as a magDK, you might as well just die. And in PvE terms, it's just better to spam unstable wall.
It's a ball group skill and it's good at what it does.
Obviously, using it as a spammable in solo or small-scale play isn't a good idea and I agree with the general statement that "MagDK still doesn't have an execute." At that point you're using an ability that's 50+% more expensive than alternative spammables on a class that already has horrible sustain which isn't worth it at all versus, say, Power Lash.
But if you find yourself in a ball group and are routinely catching 4-8 players in the radius per cast, then you're doing good damage AND casting the ability for free or even gaining Magicka for casting it, which is amazing.
Realistically, you'll get like 2 casts off and then die bc magDK has no survivability or movement without doing barely any damage but hey you got the minor mangle off I guess.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Andre_Noir wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
TL;DR: the skill is trashYandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
If we're still speaking in PvP terms if you're gonna use Flame Pulsar in Cyro as a magDK, you might as well just die. And in PvE terms, it's just better to spam unstable wall.
It's a ball group skill and it's good at what it does.
Obviously, using it as a spammable in solo or small-scale play isn't a good idea and I agree with the general statement that "MagDK still doesn't have an execute." At that point you're using an ability that's 50+% more expensive than alternative spammables on a class that already has horrible sustain which isn't worth it at all versus, say, Power Lash.
But if you find yourself in a ball group and are routinely catching 4-8 players in the radius per cast, then you're doing good damage AND casting the ability for free or even gaining Magicka for casting it, which is amazing.
Realistically, you'll get like 2 casts off and then die bc magDK has no survivability or movement without doing barely any damage but hey you got the minor mangle off I guess.
How many times do I need to say that it's not a solo player skill it's a ball group skill.
When you have full raid buffs up on you a magDK is tankier than a solo stamCro in Heavy Armor, the only thing that you're dying to is another ball group or a 40-player faction-stack.
Flame Pulsar is extremely good within this context.0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Andre_Noir wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
TL;DR: the skill is trashYandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
@uzigurumashUrzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »What about changing this to Increased Martial Damage to Damage Shields only?
That's an improvement but why have a penalty in the first place?
Why does Medium Armor get to skate on penalties while still being able to spam Roll-Dodge?
The broad consensus seemed to be that Medium armor was sorely in need of buffs compared to Light or Heavy, but I do think we had a Roll Dodge + Vigor meta from Dragonhold to Greymoor, the era of the rock-dancer, and we're probably always at some risk of returning to that tiresome meta.
In my experience, the increased Magicka Damage Taken on Heavy is a huge boon for Mag in BGs right now (specifically because ranged-proc NBs drive the necessity of some Heavy for most players), if not so much in Cyrodiil, but maybe this advantage will become more relevant in Cyrodiil when procs are back.
Anyhow per my recollection, a full hybridization of all 3 armor types would be most thematically in line with other TES games, right?
Overall I'd advocate for buffing Destro spammables (and Eviscerate), like many have said many times, and seeing how these current armor passives pan out. Whatever the armor imbalances, D Swing and Lethal Arrow are still the two best single-target spammables in the game, even if Impulse is close to Whirlwind.
impulse in nowhere near whirlwind . both are aoe but whirlwind has bous damage under 50% health while impulse has minor mangle which doesnt stack.
impulse isnt worth skill slot.
force shock cannot be compared to snipe or d swing because of split damage
wall of elements is pve only
destructive touch is trash
Fire Impulse has Execute Scaling, and it appears to be a 300% modifier to enemies under 50%, opposed to Whirlwind's 100%. The most experienced players I know run Impulse on Mag. It seems most Mag were running Crushing Shock in No Procrodiil this last patch, but still, its damage seems low to me, compared to Lethal Arrow. Point was, buff Destro, and you buff Mag's ranged offense. If Mag's ranged offense were stronger, their poorer mitigation wouldn't put them so far behind Stam. And when I say them, I mean MagPlar, MagDK, and MagNB, because the other 3 were quite strong in No Procodiil and BGs this last patch.
Also, unrelated to that, but Light's penalties move with Heavy's. As one goes, so must the other. In BGs these penalties are palpable.
And do you know that damage bonus is only for status effects? Which is how much. 200 damage in pvp?
So its whooping 600 damage while under 50% health.
Thats certainly comparable to whirlwind which increases its damage by 50%. Multiplied by crit.
There is reason while stam is stronger than mag in pvp. Everyone knows that. Its because of stam weapon skill lines are superior to mag weapon skill line (right, one. Resto doesn't count as weapon) and most class skill lines.
And thats that. If we compare only skills it favors stam. Then we go to sets which are divided to damage (mostly stam) and support (mostly mag)
Stam wins again. Proc sets? Stam win
Now even armor type mag vs stam is unbalanced. Less armour, spell resistance is generaly larger than phys. because of some racials and passives. 7% more damage taken from stam.
The Impulse bonus applies to all damage, but it requires the target to be afflicted with Burning. On the other hand, it's a much larger bonus than Whirlwind. Reverse Slice requires a target, and PI is single target for both morphs, so they're not exactly comparable.
Otherwise we seem to be in agreement, Mag's primary issue seems to be that Destro is weaker than 2h/DW/Bow, so I think working on that should be the first priority, that's all my point was.
Ah yes, a victim of the Fake Tooltips. The exe scaling has been tested and confirmed it only boosted the extra damage from the very small burning conditional. You should never use Impulse in cyro unless it's the shock variant.
A magDK can use Flame Pulsar just fine in Cyrodiil.
It is true that the execute damage comes only from the Pulsar Afterburn but what many people do not know is that the Afterburn component itself has a chance to proc Burning a second time on the same cast (with the first being from the cast of Pulsar itself). So you can get two Burning 0-second ticks on top of the Afterburn bonus damage and base Pulsar damage as well as harvest all of the resulting Combustion procs.
To wit, a Charged Pulsar cast has an 84% chance to inflict Burning on each target in the radius and then a 42% chance to inflict Burning again on the follow-up Afterburn during the same GCD. If you have 3-4 targets within the Pulsar radius, you can effectively cast the skill for free due to all of the Combustion procs.
And, with the DK Flame AoE passive, the damage of the Pulsar itself, when added to the Burning and Afterburn damage, will be quite competitive with Shock Pulsar (while being much easier on sustain).
If we're still speaking in PvP terms if you're gonna use Flame Pulsar in Cyro as a magDK, you might as well just die. And in PvE terms, it's just better to spam unstable wall.
It's a ball group skill and it's good at what it does.
Obviously, using it as a spammable in solo or small-scale play isn't a good idea and I agree with the general statement that "MagDK still doesn't have an execute." At that point you're using an ability that's 50+% more expensive than alternative spammables on a class that already has horrible sustain which isn't worth it at all versus, say, Power Lash.
But if you find yourself in a ball group and are routinely catching 4-8 players in the radius per cast, then you're doing good damage AND casting the ability for free or even gaining Magicka for casting it, which is amazing.
Realistically, you'll get like 2 casts off and then die bc magDK has no survivability or movement without doing barely any damage but hey you got the minor mangle off I guess.
How many times do I need to say that it's not a solo player skill it's a ball group skill.
When you have full raid buffs up on you a magDK is tankier than a solo stamCro in Heavy Armor, the only thing that you're dying to is another ball group or a 40-player faction-stack.
Flame Pulsar is extremely good within this context.
and what if you dont like/want to play ball group, you want to play more solo or smallscale or jest near groups but you also dont want to play specially stamina character on this, you would want o play it on mag character?0