ESO may have been advertised as a PvP game 7 years ago but it had changed. It's more of a TES experience with friends now. PvP is a joke and more of a self joke when someone calls it competitive. It's an imbalanced mess, that breaks PvE meta every quarter. It doesn't have a ranked ladder, Emperor title is being sold left and right, Alliance ranks are more indicative of one's leeching/PvDoor activity rather than actual combat. The only change to it that I personally can get behind would be a complete removal from the game.
newtinmpls wrote: »Money.
They said "never" to housing; but player demand and MORE importantly player spending changed that.
Lots of peeps like PvP, but apparently they aren't spending enough to make more development worth it.
LightYagami wrote: »I copied my reply to another thread...
I'm not sure about the precise answer to your question but let's take a look at how ZOS handle PvP comparing to PvE.
1. When Cyrodiil is suffering from basic performance issues like disconnection, ping spike, desync, unable to cast skills, unable to break free, unable to light attack, unable to swap bars... ZOS keeps putting resources in PvE, for example adding PvE contents, PvE DLC, PvE chapters, PvE companion, PvE Dungeons, PvE trials, etc. What they did to PvP is adding restrictions to Players (although personally I like no-proc). How many PvP zones do we have and how many PvE? Allocation of resources tells the answer.
2. Instead of designing better BG to attract more players, they removed the function of selecting BG game mode. It's all random now... I don't think they will remove the abiliy of selecting which dungeons PvEers want to enter.
3. They are adding monster sets in IC. Sounds good, right? The problem is that the monster sets are obtained by killing NPC bosses instead of say killing a number of players. They futher tweak IC to be PvE oriented.
4. Even during MYM (PvP event), event tickets drop by doing PvE tasks like killing NPCs, recusing NPCs, etc. Will they allow killing players in dungeons to drop event tickets? Of course not.
5. During MYM event, more players visit PvP zones and amazingly performance in PvP zones during MYM is better than usual. There are methods to improve PvP performance temporarily, but whether long-term change can be done / will be done is another story.
You can get the answer indirectly, right?
VaranisArano wrote: »LightYagami wrote: »I copied my reply to another thread...
I'm not sure about the precise answer to your question but let's take a look at how ZOS handle PvP comparing to PvE.
1. When Cyrodiil is suffering from basic performance issues like disconnection, ping spike, desync, unable to cast skills, unable to break free, unable to light attack, unable to swap bars... ZOS keeps putting resources in PvE, for example adding PvE contents, PvE DLC, PvE chapters, PvE companion, PvE Dungeons, PvE trials, etc. What they did to PvP is adding restrictions to Players (although personally I like no-proc). How many PvP zones do we have and how many PvE? Allocation of resources tells the answer.
2. Instead of designing better BG to attract more players, they removed the function of selecting BG game mode. It's all random now... I don't think they will remove the abiliy of selecting which dungeons PvEers want to enter.
3. They are adding monster sets in IC. Sounds good, right? The problem is that the monster sets are obtained by killing NPC bosses instead of say killing a number of players. They futher tweak IC to be PvE oriented.
4. Even during MYM (PvP event), event tickets drop by doing PvE tasks like killing NPCs, recusing NPCs, etc. Will they allow killing players in dungeons to drop event tickets? Of course not.
5. During MYM event, more players visit PvP zones and amazingly performance in PvP zones during MYM is better than usual. There are methods to improve PvP performance temporarily, but whether long-term change can be done / will be done is another story.
You can get the answer indirectly, right?
I disagree on points 3 and 4. Because those are PvPvE zones, all those activities have the inherent threat of PVP. In fact, the recurring complaints of players who dislike PVP are specifically because they often have PVP happen while doing PvPvE activities in a PvPvE zone. It's not like PVE-only players are being handed an easy option to skip PVP in a PvPvE zone.
The rewards for events and even the new sets are basically bait to lure players into trying out the gameplay - that's true whether it's monster sets in new dungeons or in Imperial City. Again, the real content in PVP is other players. Using rewards, ZOS encourages players to show up in PvPvE zones.
As for the rest, yeah.
LightYagami wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »LightYagami wrote: »I copied my reply to another thread...
I'm not sure about the precise answer to your question but let's take a look at how ZOS handle PvP comparing to PvE.
1. When Cyrodiil is suffering from basic performance issues like disconnection, ping spike, desync, unable to cast skills, unable to break free, unable to light attack, unable to swap bars... ZOS keeps putting resources in PvE, for example adding PvE contents, PvE DLC, PvE chapters, PvE companion, PvE Dungeons, PvE trials, etc. What they did to PvP is adding restrictions to Players (although personally I like no-proc). How many PvP zones do we have and how many PvE? Allocation of resources tells the answer.
2. Instead of designing better BG to attract more players, they removed the function of selecting BG game mode. It's all random now... I don't think they will remove the abiliy of selecting which dungeons PvEers want to enter.
3. They are adding monster sets in IC. Sounds good, right? The problem is that the monster sets are obtained by killing NPC bosses instead of say killing a number of players. They futher tweak IC to be PvE oriented.
4. Even during MYM (PvP event), event tickets drop by doing PvE tasks like killing NPCs, recusing NPCs, etc. Will they allow killing players in dungeons to drop event tickets? Of course not.
5. During MYM event, more players visit PvP zones and amazingly performance in PvP zones during MYM is better than usual. There are methods to improve PvP performance temporarily, but whether long-term change can be done / will be done is another story.
You can get the answer indirectly, right?
I disagree on points 3 and 4. Because those are PvPvE zones, all those activities have the inherent threat of PVP. In fact, the recurring complaints of players who dislike PVP are specifically because they often have PVP happen while doing PvPvE activities in a PvPvE zone. It's not like PVE-only players are being handed an easy option to skip PVP in a PvPvE zone.
The rewards for events and even the new sets are basically bait to lure players into trying out the gameplay - that's true whether it's monster sets in new dungeons or in Imperial City. Again, the real content in PVP is other players. Using rewards, ZOS encourages players to show up in PvPvE zones.
As for the rest, yeah.
1. I'm taking about MYM, a PvP event officially. Not only the zone.
2. I know IC contains PvE and PvP. Now developers are further pushing it towards PvE.
VaranisArano wrote: »StamPlar_1976 wrote: »Never. They love the casuals too much to bat an eye at us.
Has Zenimax been able to monetize PvP? The only DLC with PvP I have seen in Imperial City and it is usually dead space and it seems Zos had to give it away. Every other aspect of PvP is part of the base game so it does nothing for bringing in continued revenue.
In PVP, the real content is other players. As long as we can fight, we're going to be playing ESO and spending money. And while some players might be annoyed to not get many updates to our fighting areas, we're considerably less demanding than PVE end game players, who need 4 dungeons and a trial each year. What we want is a place to fight that works.
ZOS does monetize PVP overtly, but it's in the same way they monetize everything else in the end game: "Buy this fantastic new gear/class/feature in the New Chapter to stay competitive!" Then they nerf that stuff they knew was unbalanced later, so they can sell the latest round of unbalanced stuff. PVP players, like endgame PVEers, buy a lot of consumables like race change tokens and stuff to level up Alts in order to keep up as ZOS changes the meta. Just because you don't see ZOS selling new environments to fight in doesn't mean it isn't monetized. In fact, PVPers are more cost efficient for ZOS than PVE trial players because PVPers don't require a new environment with new boss fights every year. All we require is a place to fight that works - and it's 100% on ZOS to make sure their own game works properly. We can't do that for them.
In the larger scheme of things, ZOS has to offer some form of PVP to stay competitive in marketing themselves vs other MMOs. It doesn't have to be good PVP or working particularly well, but they have to offer it or player who're looking for that option will pass right on by. This is why all complaints advocating "ZOS should remove PVP altogether" miss the mark completely.
Finally, while ZOS might have grand plans to further monetize PVP...they can't until they fix Cyrodiil's performance problems. I really can't state that firmly enough: they can't fully monetize PVP when their flagship PVP mode performs poorly for regular PVPers, driving players who love PVP away to other games.
In PVP, the content is other players. If ZOS wants a thriving PVP community that they can monetize, they've got to fix the performance problems that are the primary reason PVPers have left over the years.
VaranisArano wrote: »LightYagami wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »LightYagami wrote: »I copied my reply to another thread...
I'm not sure about the precise answer to your question but let's take a look at how ZOS handle PvP comparing to PvE.
1. When Cyrodiil is suffering from basic performance issues like disconnection, ping spike, desync, unable to cast skills, unable to break free, unable to light attack, unable to swap bars... ZOS keeps putting resources in PvE, for example adding PvE contents, PvE DLC, PvE chapters, PvE companion, PvE Dungeons, PvE trials, etc. What they did to PvP is adding restrictions to Players (although personally I like no-proc). How many PvP zones do we have and how many PvE? Allocation of resources tells the answer.
2. Instead of designing better BG to attract more players, they removed the function of selecting BG game mode. It's all random now... I don't think they will remove the abiliy of selecting which dungeons PvEers want to enter.
3. They are adding monster sets in IC. Sounds good, right? The problem is that the monster sets are obtained by killing NPC bosses instead of say killing a number of players. They futher tweak IC to be PvE oriented.
4. Even during MYM (PvP event), event tickets drop by doing PvE tasks like killing NPCs, recusing NPCs, etc. Will they allow killing players in dungeons to drop event tickets? Of course not.
5. During MYM event, more players visit PvP zones and amazingly performance in PvP zones during MYM is better than usual. There are methods to improve PvP performance temporarily, but whether long-term change can be done / will be done is another story.
You can get the answer indirectly, right?
I disagree on points 3 and 4. Because those are PvPvE zones, all those activities have the inherent threat of PVP. In fact, the recurring complaints of players who dislike PVP are specifically because they often have PVP happen while doing PvPvE activities in a PvPvE zone. It's not like PVE-only players are being handed an easy option to skip PVP in a PvPvE zone.
The rewards for events and even the new sets are basically bait to lure players into trying out the gameplay - that's true whether it's monster sets in new dungeons or in Imperial City. Again, the real content in PVP is other players. Using rewards, ZOS encourages players to show up in PvPvE zones.
As for the rest, yeah.
1. I'm taking about MYM, a PvP event officially. Not only the zone.
2. I know IC contains PvE and PvP. Now developers are further pushing it towards PvE.
So? My point still stands. A lot of people want to say that questing and such is "PVE" in Cyrodiil, but it's really not. It's a PvPvE zone and all that questing and NPC killing that people do for event tickets always has the risk of PVP happening. That's the whole point of the complaints and begging for a PVE-only Cyrodiil - even the "PVE" stuff in Cyrodiil isn't actually PVE-only. It always has the threat of PVP, and during events, there are usually PVPers about waiting for kills.
I mean, sure, ZOS could require players to kill other players to get their tickets, and that might be more "pure PVP". But pure player killing isn't the point of MYM, or we'd only get tickets from Battlegrounds. Celebrating the PvPvE side of Cyrodiil is just as valid as celebrating "Kill 20 Enemy Players."
And again, I disagree that putting rewards in IC bosses is moving things toward PVE. You can't have PVP if there aren't players to fight, and ZOS drawing more players in to fight the bosses IS boosting the opportunities for PVP.