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Why adding new sets, if 90% of current sets in game are useless
Einher2137
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Anyone thinking same? They adding a tons of new sets, when a lot of them are useless piece of nothing. What is your opinion.
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lihentian✭✭✭✭✭agree, they really need to buff crafting set.. most of them are useless. even nine trait set like TBS20 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also agree that there are way too many sets in this game, but there are probably people that disagree and love all sorts of sets, even if they will never use most of them.
ZOS doesn't seem overly concerned that most of their sets don't see any use. Some people will use bad sets just because they fit a theme. Any set with "vampire" in the name gets used by some. It could do nothing but give you negative stats and it would still get used at that point.10 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Einher2137 wrote: »Anyone thinking same? They adding a tons of new sets, when a lot of them are useless piece of nothing. What is your opinion.
Well, I wouldn't call them useless pieces of nothing. If you're grinding XP, filling up your inventory, and are a crafter, they have some value in deconstruction. But beyond that, I agree, most are useless.
As for adding new sets, while occasionally we'll get something useful, for the most part it's just marketing fluff to sell new content.4 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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They are only "useless" to the 0.5% of the player base that is chasing the fractions of a percent meta numbers.Einher2137 wrote: »Why adding new sets, if 90% of current sets in game are useless
To the rest of us, many, many sets have their place and are being actively used.
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love having lots of sets but I do agree that it's a problem that so many of them are so bad.
ZOS should honestly have like a dedicated intern whose only purpose is finding the sets with the lowest %equipped rates and figuring out ways to buff them back to relevance.8 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love having lots of sets but I do agree that it's a problem that so many of them are so bad.
It's not that the sets are bad, it's that they aren't considered "meta" so everyone looks down upon them and players that use them.
There are tons of good sets out there. They just aren't on Alcast builds so nobody sees any value in them.13 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd love to see lots of sets buffed up to be more useful in more situations.
There's no such thing as perfect balance but some sets are FAR weaker than others.
But the original question why do they keep adding sets: Because it sells chapters and DLC for players to chase after new, overpowered sets and mythics, and keeps a steady demand for attunable crafting stations/houses to store them.PC NA2 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WySoSirius wrote: »Gotta have shiny shiny to attract more $$$$
Mostly this.
They need to give us new things to chase, otherwise the game stagnates once players acquire 'enough' to keep them at the top of a heap that has stopped evolving.
As a result - the heap keeps growing because they can't eliminate sets that the meta chasers no longer use because newer and/or lower level players won't have the steppingstone options that established players used to advance.
One the one hand it would be nice to be able to pare the dead wood from the forest of choices.
On the other hand that is generally best accomplished by players as they advance just not using them anymore.
What would be helpful (in my opinion) is the ability for players who chose to exercise the option to be able to delete low level recipes and sets from our collections as we advance beyond them, or at the very least move them to a '2nd page' of alternate options that don't appear at the front of a preferred list of stuff we can make more regularly.
I don't want to propose that completionists lose options, but sanitizing lists of stuff we use all the time and moving low level stuff to 2nd page status would make the lists of stuff we search through while crafting could be made a lot easier to navigate.
I'm not a completionist myself, so there are many recipes and sets I don't even *want* to learn just to keep my list of desired abilities shorter.
I'd like the ability to move a lot of stuff in my collections to 2nd tier status as well. I've got metric tonnes of stuff in there I will never use for any reason, and i recognize the nightmare the support staff would go through dealing with players who deleted something and later decided they wanted it back.
Let us move stuff we dont want to a 'page 2' where it's not in our primary list of favorites.
::edited for a glaring speeling error::
Edited by twev on May 27, 2021 6:44PMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love having lots of sets but I do agree that it's a problem that so many of them are so bad.
It's not that the sets are bad, it's that they aren't considered "meta" so everyone looks down upon them and players that use them.
There are tons of good sets out there. They just aren't on Alcast builds so nobody sees any value in them.
There are plenty of objectively bad sets out there - it isn't that they simply aren't the popular meta (see Nahviintaas for perhaps the BiS example of an objectively atrocious set).
What you describe certainly does describe some sets that are otherwise on the cusp of viability but that's a much smaller subset within the overall universe of unused sets.
Some sets are also woefully under-tuned even using the 'spreadsheet balancing' principles that ZOS claims to use (see Grundwulf).1 -
Lephrel✭✭✭✭✭Usually, BiS items for either PvE or PvP are released with every chapter (very often also in DLCs). This gives players an additional incentive to buy the new content or keep up their sub. On top of that, forcing players to regrind their gear every couple of months makes them play the game more (which leads to more crown store sales, more active community etc.).1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love having lots of sets but I do agree that it's a problem that so many of them are so bad.
It's not that the sets are bad, it's that they aren't considered "meta" so everyone looks down upon them and players that use them.
There are tons of good sets out there. They just aren't on Alcast builds so nobody sees any value in them.
There are plenty of objectively bad sets out there - it isn't that they simply aren't the popular meta (see Nahviintaas for perhaps the BiS example of an objectively atrocious set).
What you describe certainly does describe some sets that are otherwise on the cusp of viability but that's a much smaller subset within the overall universe of unused sets.
Some sets are also woefully under-tuned even using the 'spreadsheet balancing' principles that ZOS claims to use (see Grundwulf).
There are objectively bad sets out there, yes. I don't think I ever made that claim.
My whole point was that there is a segment of the population - probably louder than their actual population may suggest - that is BiS or nothing, and anything else is invalid, even if it is a viable (but not most-efficient) set.
I don't know every single set in the game off the top of my head to know how the percentages break down of what percentage of sets are BiS / meta, what percentage sets are non-meta but viable, and what percentage of sets are not up to standards for content.0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yea, they had good steam some time ago when they revamped alot of the older sets with each update, but they stopped somehow and now alot of the older sets are extremely useless still.
PC EU
PvP only2 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is something called fun.
You know what would be fun? If most sets were competitive and build diversity could flourish, instead of being shoehorned into the same old three sets for end game. That's the point of this thread, as I perceive it. Doing at least decent damage/healing/tanking with a variety of sets would be my definition of fun.Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna12 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »There is something called fun.
You know what would be fun? If most sets were competitive and build diversity could flourish, instead of being shoehorned into the same old three sets for end game. That's the point of this thread, as I perceive it. Doing at least decent damage/healing/tanking with a variety of sets would be my definition of fun.
please, 5 piece bonuses like julianos add around 5% dps (semi meta) which means in non meta sets you should be able to fair pretty well with 10% damage loss tops. that's nothing. literally. a good player in a mediocre group will still be stronger than the other players, even if he is in non meta sets (that are btw usually tailored towards lots of group buffs that dont exist in said groups). your ability to run dungeons with that damage loss is barely hit. can you be stronger? ye sure. but saying build diversity doesnt exist when currently mag groups are using over 9 different sets:
BSW, mechanical acuity, master architect (vAS), siroria, mother's sorrow, medusa, z'en, elemental catalyst, (sometimes false gods), zaan, domihous, 2 crit, slimecraw
there is diversity. but you cant have too many sets that are BiS, but you can get similar results with less meta sets, like using moondancer for more mobile fights. Competitive is a term that is used only for the best of the best sets. but all sets are good enough for most content.
PS - damage loss is under assumption you lose 2 of the 5 piece bonuses, not exchange them.Edited by zvavi on May 27, 2021 10:01PM1 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »There is something called fun.
You know what would be fun? If most sets were competitive and build diversity could flourish, instead of being shoehorned into the same old three sets for end game. That's the point of this thread, as I perceive it. Doing at least decent damage/healing/tanking with a variety of sets would be my definition of fun.
please, 5 piece bonuses like julianos add around 5% dps (semi meta) which means in non meta sets you should be able to fair pretty well with 10% damage loss tops. that's nothing. literally. a good player in a mediocre group will still be stronger than the other players, even if he is in non meta sets (that are btw usually tailored towards lots of group buffs that dont exist in said groups). your ability to run dungeons with that damage loss is barely hit. can you be stronger? ye sure. but saying build diversity doesnt exist when currently mag groups are using over 9 different sets:
BSW, mechanical acuity, master architect (vAS), siroria, mother's sorrow, medusa, z'en, elemental catalyst, (sometimes false gods), zaan, domihous, 2 crit, slimecraw
there is diversity. but you cant have too many sets that are BiS, but you can get similar results with less meta sets, like using moondancer for more mobile fights. Competitive is a term that is used only for the best of the best sets. but all sets are good enough for most content.
PS - damage loss is under assumption you lose 2 of the 5 piece bonuses, not exchange them.
What made you think I was talking about Julianos? lol. I'm already aware of the sets you listed and their functionality, as I've used almost all of them at one time or another. I'm referring *mostly* to actual useless sets that could be made so much better and still be fun. Obviously player skill will ultimately be the determining factor of most of one's dps, but why not have more fun and not gimp oneself? If the sets were better, it would encourage more build diversity and help raise the floor for newer players. I'm seeing that being lost more and more every year and am not of the opinion that only a very small handful of sets being "bis" is good; the difference between some of the best sets and some of the worst sets is too great. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with more choices?Edited by Suna_Ye_Sunnabe on May 27, 2021 10:15PMAngua Anyammis Ae Sunna4 -
Cryptor✭✭✭they might be useless but some many of them are so pretty
Casually Xbox Guild: Discord Server - Recruiting Thread - Guild Website - My information: Instagram - Twitch Stream - Youtube Channel - Discord Server - Xbox GT: OGCryptor - Mastodon Profile3 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While we are at it, can we also remove 99% of Costumes, Styles and Motifs, They are all Useless because All I care is Damage output.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love having lots of sets but I do agree that it's a problem that so many of them are so bad.
It's not that the sets are bad, it's that they aren't considered "meta" so everyone looks down upon them and players that use them.
There are tons of good sets out there. They just aren't on Alcast builds so nobody sees any value in them.
Not "nobody", just not those who follow Alcast or whoever. The other 99% see plenty of value in them.3 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »There is something called fun.
You know what would be fun? If most sets were competitive and build diversity could flourish, instead of being shoehorned into the same old three sets for end game. That's the point of this thread, as I perceive it. Doing at least decent damage/healing/tanking with a variety of sets would be my definition of fun.
please, 5 piece bonuses like julianos add around 5% dps (semi meta) which means in non meta sets you should be able to fair pretty well with 10% damage loss tops. that's nothing. literally. a good player in a mediocre group will still be stronger than the other players, even if he is in non meta sets (that are btw usually tailored towards lots of group buffs that dont exist in said groups). your ability to run dungeons with that damage loss is barely hit. can you be stronger? ye sure. but saying build diversity doesnt exist when currently mag groups are using over 9 different sets:
BSW, mechanical acuity, master architect (vAS), siroria, mother's sorrow, medusa, z'en, elemental catalyst, (sometimes false gods), zaan, domihous, 2 crit, slimecraw
there is diversity. but you cant have too many sets that are BiS, but you can get similar results with less meta sets, like using moondancer for more mobile fights. Competitive is a term that is used only for the best of the best sets. but all sets are good enough for most content.
PS - damage loss is under assumption you lose 2 of the 5 piece bonuses, not exchange them.
What made you think I was talking about Julianos? lol. I'm already aware of the sets you listed and their functionality, as I've used almost all of them at one time or another. I'm referring *mostly* to actual useless sets that could be made so much better and still be fun. Obviously player skill will ultimately be the determining factor of most of one's dps, but why not have more fun and not gimp oneself? If the sets were better, it would encourage more build diversity and help raise the floor for newer players. I'm seeing that being lost more and more every year and am not of the opinion that only a very small handful of sets being "bis" is good; the difference between some of the best sets and some of the worst sets is too great. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with more choices?
If we are talking about proc sets, well, the answer is PvP. In PvE you can stand and parse, in PvP you can't. So proc sets offer more in PvP compared to PvE, and the need to balance both, leaves sets either useless in PvE or overpowered in PvP.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why I say the game's content schedule is not viable. Even if the dungeons are good they just add more crap to the game. It would be better if they worked on things like updating the over world and adding new world skill lines, updated guilds or whatever.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info4 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafted sets are basically stepping stone sets made easily available to any player until they feel like going after the better sets. If crafted sets were boosted to be on par with drop sets there would be less incentive to run content. For an MMO to survive players need to participate in a variety of content. That is why good PvP sets come from trials. If players only interested in PVP could craft a top notch set they would have no reason to visit any other part of the game.
The other thing an MMO needs is new content. New sets are a part of that new content. I think there is a decent balance between how powerful sets are and where/when in the player/characters path to glory they will be used.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is called SALES STRATEGY.
Each chapter brings OP sets making former sets look old
so that people have a reason to buy the new chapter.
Of course, before the next chapter the OP sets have to be nerfed...
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Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭There's different types of sets
Themetic sets 🔮
Niche sets 🍻 for specific play styles like shield type of healing
Then there's traditional power sets 💪Edited by Starlight_Whisper on May 28, 2021 3:44AM3 -
six2fall✭✭✭✭It's sad but almost every set needs to be reworked. Unfortunately zos goes with the idea of nerfing the over performing sets still leaving them to be the most useful while the rest are gimmick build types or just plain worthless for most players. It would be nice to see everything buffed or reworked to better fit current game metas5
