Being a tank in this game makes you feel so helpless...

Goregrinder · May 2021

MoreTune wrote: »

Full Group support tank here in perfected yolnahkrin and powerful assault.
I swap out encratis vs tremorscale based on group in dungeons.

My build literally focuses around buffing group dps and yet I’m stuck in dungeons holding aggro for 3-5 minutes per boss fight.

Meanwhile I swap to my dps toon and clear dungeons in 5 minutes.

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

You got that right. As a PVPer I'm sort of forced to have to PVE for gear, so I have my stamplar running a one-bar build for fast easy runs. This build is not for trials or hard mode 4-mans, just to get through group dungeons well enough. With the right group buffs I can sometimes pull around 50k or so DPS, nothing amazing but not too shabby.

Point being, even with a non-optimized build like mine, i'd expect to be maybe 2nd in DPS, or even 3rd. Nope! 8 out of 10 groups (on average), I'm doing like 60-75% of the group's combined DPS...just, why? I can't possibly be getting matched up with every new player, and all of the experienced players getting matched with other people...I mean, can that really be happening?

But yeah, it's unfortunate but it's reality in ESO.

amm7sb14_ESO · May 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I have main tanked for like two years and in that period I have only seen the quality of life, for Tanks, go down with very, very few exceptions.

I honestly feel like Tanking in this game is needs to be looked at. I don't blame people for not wanting to play it. I find myself play more and more DD and healer with every patch.

Our "sets" are so uncreative and doesn't benefit us.
Tanks are in PVE the most vulnerable to performance problems, as a desynch on block or a late taunt/chain can wipe the entire team.

I honestly feel like the Tanking role needs to be re-done from the ground up. Maybe take a look at other games where Tanks aren't "buff-bots" that has to hold block, and hold everyones hand.

Reinhardt in Overwatch got a giant shield to protect his team, as a Tank, but he also got a giant hammer and can do some serious damage... I wish we went more in that direction personly.

I'm the opposite. I've been main tanking since I returned about a year and a half ago, and tbh I really enjoy it. I do have DD's and healers, and enjoy playing them as well, but tanking is by far my favorite role to play, and that hasn't changed with any of the patches (but I am with you that some of the patches have made it work)

We do have lots of sets that benefit us. My main tank runs Crimson and Grave Guardian, some of my favorite tanking sets. It's not that there aren't creative tanking sets to benefit us, it's that the rest of the community imposes demands on us and how we play... demands that aren't even necessary, as you can complete any content in the game without Alkosh / Yolna.

I don't follow in line with the "buff bot" philosophy either, but I do believe that tanks should be buffing the group in some capacity. I disagree that Alkosh / Yolna are the only appropriate ways to buff the group, and I do believe that sets like Ebon / Grave Guardian / Brands Of Imperium / Foolkiller that buff health or protection are also valid buffs. I have my main Necro tank that runs Crimson / Grave Guardian / Lord Warden and I buff the resistances of myself and my groupmates. I have an alt Warden tank that runs Brands of Imperium / Foolkiller / Stonekeeper or Thurvokhin and buff damage shields and recovery for my group. Those sets also benefit me as well - on my Necro, I can top out my resistances, and have high levels of self healing that keep me alive through everything but a missed 1-shot mech, or a full blown group wipe. And my Warden, I can max out my damage shields, effectively doubling my life and survivability.

I'm not attempting to argue with you and say you're wrong for your opinion. Your experience is your experience, and that's valid. I can certainly understand why someone would not enjoy tanking in this game. I've been fortunate that I do enjoy the role, and I have found a guild that allows and encourages me to play the role the way that works for me, and individualize my characters to my own goals. I've had a lot of success with my builds up to this point, and see no reason why a tank *needs* to conform to the Yolna / Alkosh setup.

I'm simply using your post as a launching point to share my own experiences. I'm not trying to oppose your experiences and say they are wrong. I certainly would like to see a shift in how tanks are viewed and treated within the community.

amm7sb14_ESO · May 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

Stratloc wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Now, the times I feel helpless as a tank are when an untauntable red phase Centurion starts chasing a DD, who starts running and screaming "Tank?!! in chat. Believe me, I'd pull it off you if I could.

This made me think of the unpredictable mess that is the end boss in Arx... I get yelled at all the time.

Those fights where "the boss just does their own thing sometimes" are confusing for EVERYBODY who doesn't know the dungeon mechanics.

I remember tanking Arx Corinium the first couple times and having no idea what I (the tank) was doing wrong. Nope -- Sellistrex just does stuff.

She (randomly?) likes to charge after furthest targets but it's difficult to tell what exactly her range trigger is. I'm not even sure if that's the same random attack or not.

I've experimented (also as the tank) intentionally distancing myself from the group just to test whether she'd be more likely to charge at me. But Sellistrix still preferred the other party members in those cases.

A reduction in "WTF" mechanics would be another way to help improve people's willingness to tank. Or at least boost general understanding of what's going on.

I've said this before but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure: If you're tanking for a PUG and you know a boss is going to act funky, put it in chat. Never had people argue with me after I tell them exactly what's going to happen.

This reminds me of the time I was tanking Wayrest 1, and the 2nd boss does his teleporting around the room at random group members. One of the DPS just says "so I guess we don't have a tank?"

I replied back "Yes, I'm tanking". He tried to be snarky saying something like "I couldn't tell because the boss kept attacking me". I let him know that was part of the dungeon mechanics, and I didn't get a single response back or a peep from him the rest of the run.

Grandchamp1989 · May 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I have main tanked for like two years and in that period I have only seen the quality of life, for Tanks, go down with very, very few exceptions.

I honestly feel like Tanking in this game is needs to be looked at. I don't blame people for not wanting to play it. I find myself play more and more DD and healer with every patch.

Our "sets" are so uncreative and doesn't benefit us.
Tanks are in PVE the most vulnerable to performance problems, as a desynch on block or a late taunt/chain can wipe the entire team.

I honestly feel like the Tanking role needs to be re-done from the ground up. Maybe take a look at other games where Tanks aren't "buff-bots" that has to hold block, and hold everyones hand.

Reinhardt in Overwatch got a giant shield to protect his team, as a Tank, but he also got a giant hammer and can do some serious damage... I wish we went more in that direction personly.

I'm the opposite. I've been main tanking since I returned about a year and a half ago, and tbh I really enjoy it. I do have DD's and healers, and enjoy playing them as well, but tanking is by far my favorite role to play, and that hasn't changed with any of the patches (but I am with you that some of the patches have made it work)

We do have lots of sets that benefit us. My main tank runs Crimson and Grave Guardian, some of my favorite tanking sets. It's not that there aren't creative tanking sets to benefit us, it's that the rest of the community imposes demands on us and how we play... demands that aren't even necessary, as you can complete any content in the game without Alkosh / Yolna.

I don't follow in line with the "buff bot" philosophy either, but I do believe that tanks should be buffing the group in some capacity. I disagree that Alkosh / Yolna are the only appropriate ways to buff the group, and I do believe that sets like Ebon / Grave Guardian / Brands Of Imperium / Foolkiller that buff health or protection are also valid buffs. I have my main Necro tank that runs Crimson / Grave Guardian / Lord Warden and I buff the resistances of myself and my groupmates. I have an alt Warden tank that runs Brands of Imperium / Foolkiller / Stonekeeper or Thurvokhin and buff damage shields and recovery for my group. Those sets also benefit me as well - on my Necro, I can top out my resistances, and have high levels of self healing that keep me alive through everything but a missed 1-shot mech, or a full blown group wipe. And my Warden, I can max out my damage shields, effectively doubling my life and survivability.

I'm not attempting to argue with you and say you're wrong for your opinion. Your experience is your experience, and that's valid. I can certainly understand why someone would not enjoy tanking in this game. I've been fortunate that I do enjoy the role, and I have found a guild that allows and encourages me to play the role the way that works for me, and individualize my characters to my own goals. I've had a lot of success with my builds up to this point, and see no reason why a tank *needs* to conform to the Yolna / Alkosh setup.

I'm simply using your post as a launching point to share my own experiences. I'm not trying to oppose your experiences and say they are wrong. I certainly would like to see a shift in how tanks are viewed and treated within the community.

Not to worry, I don't take it like that:) All is good, glad you're having fun with it!

I used to enjoy theory crafting builds but with next patch coming up I have to retire most of them. I don't get why it's so hard for Zos to make tanks sets that benefit both the wearer and the team. I can think of two 5-piece sets that does that:
Grave Guardian (apply resistances for both the Tank -useful- and the team).
Livewire (Apply AOE minor vulnerability through concussion - not especially useful for the tank - but also heals the tank based on how many you debuff - Nice!)

These sets are few and far between though, and takes a massive backseat in favor of trial sets. Trial sets are great for trials.. but ffs let the Tank role be something other than a glorified mule.

Trial sets does nothing for you. Applying empower, penetration and minor courage does nothing for the Tank, and you're just a mule for the team. You might aswell wear regular armor with no benefits. It's insanely boring to me.

Same goes for your skills, you think you might need an ulti that apply major protection for your sake? You can't, you should wear War Horn to boost group DPS. Wanna help the team do damage with proc sets? Can't do that next patch...

While I understand the logic of buffing group DPS indirectly benefitting the tank, it would sometimes nice to be able to contribute by either doing some damage yourself, or pack on some serious armor to actually *feel* tanky without constantly compromising.

I stand by what I said.. I think Zos can do a lot to increase the fun factor of Tanks and have more people play them.

Make more sets that buff the group and do something nice for the tank aswell like Livewire.
Stop nerfing tank playstyle every patch
give us some fun monster sets
Allow tanks to do some damage so we dont' feel like a giant noodle
Give us some fun taunt and hook skills, maybe even AOE.

A lot of things can be looked at... But yeah I know I got the unpopular opinion, but that's fine.

I would just love to see more Tanks in this game... Because waiting 15-20 minutes to get into a dungeon on my DD is no fun due to the lack of Tank players.

Agenericname · May 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

MoreTune wrote: »

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

I think the conclusion is incorrect here.

If there were more capable DPS queuing as DPS then you would have had a better chance of getting one of them.

Poor gameplay experience as a tank is more likely one contributor to why there are few tanks in general in this game. The low percentage of real tanks then contributes to fake tanks existing at all.

Are there really few tanks or just few that enter the queue?

If there simply arent that many in the game, then sure. If there are and they dont queue, then their conusion is
not as wrong as it seems. And if that is the case, and being saddled with low damage DDs is why tanks avoid the queue, then they do have a point.

That being said, I dont think tanks are helpless, at all. We have the shortest queue times. We can leave a poorly performing group at will, wait out the penalty, requeue on the same character, and probably still get a clear before the group we left gets a real tank. Its also pretty easy to find a group if you don't want to roll the dice with a PUG.

If my queue last more than 10 seconds I stop and requeue because its broken.

SpiritofESO · May 2021

amm7sb14_ESO · May 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I have main tanked for like two years and in that period I have only seen the quality of life, for Tanks, go down with very, very few exceptions.

I honestly feel like Tanking in this game is needs to be looked at. I don't blame people for not wanting to play it. I find myself play more and more DD and healer with every patch.

Our "sets" are so uncreative and doesn't benefit us.
Tanks are in PVE the most vulnerable to performance problems, as a desynch on block or a late taunt/chain can wipe the entire team.

I honestly feel like the Tanking role needs to be re-done from the ground up. Maybe take a look at other games where Tanks aren't "buff-bots" that has to hold block, and hold everyones hand.

Reinhardt in Overwatch got a giant shield to protect his team, as a Tank, but he also got a giant hammer and can do some serious damage... I wish we went more in that direction personly.

I'm the opposite. I've been main tanking since I returned about a year and a half ago, and tbh I really enjoy it. I do have DD's and healers, and enjoy playing them as well, but tanking is by far my favorite role to play, and that hasn't changed with any of the patches (but I am with you that some of the patches have made it work)

We do have lots of sets that benefit us. My main tank runs Crimson and Grave Guardian, some of my favorite tanking sets. It's not that there aren't creative tanking sets to benefit us, it's that the rest of the community imposes demands on us and how we play... demands that aren't even necessary, as you can complete any content in the game without Alkosh / Yolna.

I don't follow in line with the "buff bot" philosophy either, but I do believe that tanks should be buffing the group in some capacity. I disagree that Alkosh / Yolna are the only appropriate ways to buff the group, and I do believe that sets like Ebon / Grave Guardian / Brands Of Imperium / Foolkiller that buff health or protection are also valid buffs. I have my main Necro tank that runs Crimson / Grave Guardian / Lord Warden and I buff the resistances of myself and my groupmates. I have an alt Warden tank that runs Brands of Imperium / Foolkiller / Stonekeeper or Thurvokhin and buff damage shields and recovery for my group. Those sets also benefit me as well - on my Necro, I can top out my resistances, and have high levels of self healing that keep me alive through everything but a missed 1-shot mech, or a full blown group wipe. And my Warden, I can max out my damage shields, effectively doubling my life and survivability.

I'm not attempting to argue with you and say you're wrong for your opinion. Your experience is your experience, and that's valid. I can certainly understand why someone would not enjoy tanking in this game. I've been fortunate that I do enjoy the role, and I have found a guild that allows and encourages me to play the role the way that works for me, and individualize my characters to my own goals. I've had a lot of success with my builds up to this point, and see no reason why a tank *needs* to conform to the Yolna / Alkosh setup.

I'm simply using your post as a launching point to share my own experiences. I'm not trying to oppose your experiences and say they are wrong. I certainly would like to see a shift in how tanks are viewed and treated within the community.

Not to worry, I don't take it like that:) All is good, glad you're having fun with it!

I used to enjoy theory crafting builds but with next patch coming up I have to retire most of them. I don't get why it's so hard for Zos to make tanks sets that benefit both the wearer and the team. I can think of two 5-piece sets that does that:
Grave Guardian (apply resistances for both the Tank -useful- and the team).
Livewire (Apply AOE minor vulnerability through concussion - not especially useful for the tank - but also heals the tank based on how many you debuff - Nice!)

These sets are few and far between though, and takes a massive backseat in favor of trial sets. Trial sets are great for trials.. but ffs let the Tank role be something other than a glorified mule.

Trial sets does nothing for you. Applying empower, penetration and minor courage does nothing for the Tank, and you're just a mule for the team. You might aswell wear regular armor with no benefits. It's insanely boring to me.

Same goes for your skills, you think you might need an ulti that apply major protection for your sake? You can't, you should wear War Horn to boost group DPS. Wanna help the team do damage with proc sets? Can't do that next patch...

While I understand the logic of buffing group DPS indirectly benefitting the tank, it would sometimes nice to be able to contribute by either doing some damage yourself, or pack on some serious armor to actually *feel* tanky without constantly compromising.

I stand by what I said.. I think Zos can do a lot to increase the fun factor of Tanks and have more people play them.

Make more sets that buff the group and do something nice for the tank aswell like Livewire.
Stop nerfing tank playstyle every patch
give us some fun monster sets
Allow tanks to do some damage so we dont' feel like a giant noodle
Give us some fun taunt and hook skills, maybe even AOE.

A lot of things can be looked at... But yeah I know I got the unpopular opinion, but that's fine.

I would just love to see more Tanks in this game... Because waiting 15-20 minutes to get into a dungeon on my DD is no fun due to the lack of Tank players.

I actually don't know if you have the unpopular opinion. I'm pretty sure mine is lol. Afterall, you're not going to find many vet trial groups that allow their tank to wear Crimson and Grave Guardian.

I am very anti-meta, so anything that shifts the narrative away from the cookie cutter Yolna / Alkosh mass produced tank build is fine by me. So while I may be enjoying tanking as it is, I am more than in favor of any design philosophy that more greatly encourages and enables the "play how you want" mantra of Elder Scrolls. As it is, I've made the argument in the past that there is little class identity or build individualization in this game, and I stand by that argument, because as it stands, your setup is going to be dictated by what role you play, and it's all going to be the same. Tanks wear the same armor and have the same skills on their bar regardless of class, DPS have the same sets and skills regardless of class, healers have the same sets and skills regardless of class, everyone in a specific role is going to play the same race, enchant glyphs, traits, mundus, and attribute distribution. The game claims "play how you want", but then has a design that eliminates any potential for build individualization.

Sure, you can "play as you want" for solo overland content, because builds don't matter there.

So yea... I do find tanking fun, and yes I do believe that there is a certain point where you can clear any vet level content without the meta builds, but there does come a point where you're going to be expected to wear certain things and slot certain abilities, and being able to have a customized build for your own preferences and playstyles is no longer accepted.

pelle412 · May 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I am very anti-meta, so anything that shifts the narrative away from the cookie cutter Yolna / Alkosh mass produced tank build is fine by me. So while I may be enjoying tanking as it is, I am more than in favor of any design philosophy that more greatly encourages and enables the "play how you want" mantra of Elder Scrolls.

Even though I am quoting the last poster, it's not necessarily directed at you. I completely get the play-as-you-want theme. For 4-man content, very few really care what gear you use, but in 12-man content it's different. Having said that, you certainly can recruit 11 other people who are OK with the tank using whatever sets they want. If for example, I am organizing a trial for a tank to get his/her first vSS clear, it's important that the gear they use do not interfere with their confidence. They can wear whatever they want. This works fine if the whole 12 man group is on board.

Here's where I disagree with some of the posters in this thread (and countless other threads). If you can't wear what you want, why does that make it not fun? For me, and I think many others, the "fun" part of a difficult 12-man trial is the harmony you build up as friends and going from wiping non-stop on a boss to finally clearing it. That's where the joy is in trial content. As main tank, I don't care what sets I use as long as it helps us meet our goal. For some really tough fights I might use Bani's torment while progressing, and other fights Yolnakhriin/Galenwe or something else, or even powerful assault. The enjoyment is in playing with 11 others.

hackdrag0n · May 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

I might feel like I'm working hard for comparatively little gain, but that's not quite the same.

It's not hard work to tank for a low dps group in a normal dungeon. It's just plain boring.

amm7sb14_ESO · May 2021

pelle412 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I am very anti-meta, so anything that shifts the narrative away from the cookie cutter Yolna / Alkosh mass produced tank build is fine by me. So while I may be enjoying tanking as it is, I am more than in favor of any design philosophy that more greatly encourages and enables the "play how you want" mantra of Elder Scrolls.

Even though I am quoting the last poster, it's not necessarily directed at you. I completely get the play-as-you-want theme. For 4-man content, very few really care what gear you use, but in 12-man content it's different. Having said that, you certainly can recruit 11 other people who are OK with the tank using whatever sets they want. If for example, I am organizing a trial for a tank to get his/her first vSS clear, it's important that the gear they use do not interfere with their confidence. They can wear whatever they want. This works fine if the whole 12 man group is on board.

Here's where I disagree with some of the posters in this thread (and countless other threads). If you can't wear what you want, why does that make it not fun? For me, and I think many others, the "fun" part of a difficult 12-man trial is the harmony you build up as friends and going from wiping non-stop on a boss to finally clearing it. That's where the joy is in trial content. As main tank, I don't care what sets I use as long as it helps us meet our goal. For some really tough fights I might use Bani's torment while progressing, and other fights Yolnakhriin/Galenwe or something else, or even powerful assault. The enjoyment is in playing with 11 others.

This is conversational, so I can respond in kind.

The reason why not wearing what I want makes it not fun, is because for me, the character building and assembling of different sets to design a specific theme, and concept, and focus on specific strengths, *is* the fun for me. The fun for me is in finding different ways of accomplishing the same goal, and I really despise the philosophy that says there is only one way to accomplish the goal.

I don't think that group content should be "everyone puts on their pre-assigned gear - which is the only gear suitable for the role - and then just clears it the same way as everyone else". For me, I love the idea of different people, bringing their own unique strengths and weaknesses together to contribute to the group to accomplish a goal.

I think of it like Magic: The Gathering as a big example. There are thousands upon thousands of cards, and so many ways to build a deck to your own preferences, desired playstyle and themes. For example, I love necromancy within the fantasy genre, so I have a green / black reanimation deck. I love the idea of putting my creatures in the graveyard and bringing them back to life. There are counter decks that are very defensive and stop your opponent from doing things. There are direct damage burn decks. There are big creature decks. There are life drain decks. There are so many different styles of decks to create, and so many ways you can assemble the cards together to make a fun and competitive deck. I've used cards in my decks that nobody really saw coming because they aren't commonly used cards, and I was able to catch people off guard because they did not know what to expect.

Well, it's the same here. There are dozens and dozens of different sets to use (hundreds?), but you're telling me that I'm only allowed to use the same small handful?

If it's just a matter of "throw on your Yolna and Alkosh and let's go get this clear", then I feel like I had no part in that. It's just whatever sets we are wearing. Someone else figured it out, crunched the #'s, and solved the problem for us. There's no role that I played in figuring out how to accomplish the goal. Someone else figured it out, and now that's the only way to do it.

If that's the way the game is to be played, then honestly? They need to remove classes and character builds altogether. No gear collection, no leveling up, no choosing your race at creation. No nothing.

You just get stock, pre-made characters, 4 in total, 1 for each role. You get a "Tank" character, with Nord stats, pre-equipped with Yolna and Alkosh, all attributes in health, crusher enchantments, and "Taunt", "Crowd Control", "Major Resolve", "Major Maim", "Breach & Fracture" abilities all pre-slotted. Rinse and repeat for the meta sets / attributes / glyphs / race / mundus / traits for each of the other roles. Just eliminate any sort of customization altogether, and just have stock, pre-made characters, and that's all we can play.

If that doesn't sound appealing to you, then you can understand why I don't think that it's any fun to just throw on the Yolna and Alkosh like I'm told to do.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

In a way, i get what op says. I am an high dps dd. And often i do 60-80% of the group DPS also when i fake que as healer on my pvp char with heals. The thing is tho, you cannot expect an other player to do as good as you do. You can only expect them to do their role, and do the best they can.

loaganb16_ESO · May 2021

I have a damage reflect setup on both of my tanks. Gets them to 5k-10k DPS, depending on the situation, without any additional damage skills. Tremor Scale for the bit extra DPS, if there is any in the group. Some automated self heal in the setup and you don't even need a healer either. I noticed that being independend from your heal is pretty much a must when you do pugs. More ofthen when not do I find myself last man standing, because the DDs took all the heals and still died.

But if you do 30% group DPS as a tank, who has no real damage skills or damage sets slotted... well... that's the pug experience for you.

pelle412 · May 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

You just get stock, pre-made characters, 4 in total, 1 for each role. You get a "Tank" character, with Nord stats, pre-equipped with Yolna and Alkosh, all attributes in health, crusher enchantments, and "Taunt", "Crowd Control", "Major Resolve", "Major Maim", "Breach & Fracture" abilities all pre-slotted. Rinse and repeat for the meta sets / attributes / glyphs / race / mundus / traits for each of the other roles. Just eliminate any sort of customization altogether, and just have stock, pre-made characters, and that's all we can play.

Like I said in my last post, for 4-man content nobody cares. Play how you want. For veteran trials, if you can assemble 12 people who plays how they want, by all means. When you are setting up guild runs for vet trial gear runs, the sad reality is, if you don't try to make it reasonably efficient, people will just stop joining and go somewhere else and you're left with cancelled runs because you can't fill them. Sure, you can pick any Jane and Joe but then your runs will stall and likely not get very far, which makes even more players stop joining.

amm7sb14_ESO · May 2021

pelle412 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

You just get stock, pre-made characters, 4 in total, 1 for each role. You get a "Tank" character, with Nord stats, pre-equipped with Yolna and Alkosh, all attributes in health, crusher enchantments, and "Taunt", "Crowd Control", "Major Resolve", "Major Maim", "Breach & Fracture" abilities all pre-slotted. Rinse and repeat for the meta sets / attributes / glyphs / race / mundus / traits for each of the other roles. Just eliminate any sort of customization altogether, and just have stock, pre-made characters, and that's all we can play.

Like I said in my last post, for 4-man content nobody cares. Play how you want. For veteran trials, if you can assemble 12 people who plays how they want, by all means. When you are setting up guild runs for vet trial gear runs, the sad reality is, if you don't try to make it reasonably efficient, people will just stop joining and go somewhere else and you're left with cancelled runs because you can't fill them. Sure, you can pick any Jane and Joe but then your runs will stall and likely not get very far, which makes even more players stop joining.

You asked "why isn't it fun"

I explained to you why it isn't fun. That's all my comment was addressing.

Wearing the BiS meta builds that Alcast tells you to wear and doing the paint by numbers mechanics routine isn't fun. Not for me.

People can like it. That's fine. I don't. And it's one of the major factors that typically keeps me away from MMO's.

AyaDark · May 2021

MoreTune wrote: »

Full Group support tank here in perfected yolnahkrin and powerful assault.
I swap out encratis vs tremorscale based on group in dungeons.

My build literally focuses around buffing group dps and yet I’m stuck in dungeons holding aggro for 3-5 minutes per boss fight.

Meanwhile I swap to my dps toon and clear dungeons in 5 minutes.

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

What do you buff in Dunguans ? Zero damage ?

))

What do your sets give - 500 wpd/spw in sum. It is 2 k DPS per DD with 40-50 r DPS.

So you give 4-6 k dps to party if i is 2-3 DD in it, both of them with 40-50 k DPS.

5% group damage it is all about.

It is useless, want to play dunguans - only count on your self.

Tank main bar - DD who can do damage under boss - back bar.

--- --- ---
"Alcast" - and what ?
I do not see good player in him, his builds are the same.

He plays with good group - that is ALL it is about. With the same group i think you can play naked, in real life this do not work - with random groups - it do not work just the same.

perfiction · May 2021

AyaDark wrote: »

"Alcast" - and what ?
I do not see good player in him, his builds are the same.

He plays with good group - that is ALL it is about. With the same group i think you can play naked, in real life this do not work - with random groups - it do not work just the same.

We can agree that he's really experienced player. His tank guides are too 'general' to learn the role properly though. That's why I prefer using The Tank Club for tank builds and guides (and Healer's Haven discord for healer guides).

AyaDark · May 2021

My tank do not feel helplesly

It is really old version by the way.

https://youtu.be/gs-1yNqTgSU

josiahva · May 2021

MoreTune wrote: »

Full Group support tank here in perfected yolnahkrin and powerful assault.
I swap out encratis vs tremorscale based on group in dungeons.

My build literally focuses around buffing group dps and yet I’m stuck in dungeons holding aggro for 3-5 minutes per boss fight.

Meanwhile I swap to my dps toon and clear dungeons in 5 minutes.

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

Don't wear that garbage in dungeons unless your 2 DPS are doing high damage(those sets are much more effective in trials). You are FAR better off with an off-tank setup that will allow you to personally do 15-20k damage....this way if you get stuck with a low-DPS group you really don't care. I only go buff-monkey in dungeons when the group DPS exceeds 60k...anything under that and I swap to an off-tank setup and DPS myself while tanking. I suppose you can still pull 15K+ with Yoln and PA though.....you will just need a set with different enchants and a completely different skill setup.

The point is that those sets are really not appropriate for dungeons in most circumstances. Why work so hard to buff some random DPS from 24k to 28k DPS(x2) when you can push out 20k yourself and the group be better off for it? You should always have at least half a dozen sets on hand at any given time(at least 2 for off-tanking) and swap between them with dressing room or similar add-on

BejaProphet · May 2021

josiahva wrote: »

MoreTune wrote: »

Full Group support tank here in perfected yolnahkrin and powerful assault.
I swap out encratis vs tremorscale based on group in dungeons.

My build literally focuses around buffing group dps and yet I’m stuck in dungeons holding aggro for 3-5 minutes per boss fight.

Meanwhile I swap to my dps toon and clear dungeons in 5 minutes.

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

Don't wear that garbage in dungeons unless your 2 DPS are doing high damage(those sets are much more effective in trials). You are FAR better off with an off-tank setup that will allow you to personally do 15-20k damage....this way if you get stuck with a low-DPS group you really don't care. I only go buff-monkey in dungeons when the group DPS exceeds 60k...anything under that and I swap to an off-tank setup and DPS myself while tanking. I suppose you can still pull 15K+ with Yoln and PA though.....you will just need a set with different enchants and a completely different skill setup.

The point is that those sets are really not appropriate for dungeons in most circumstances. Why work so hard to buff some random DPS from 24k to 28k DPS(x2) when you can push out 20k yourself and the group be better off for it? You should always have at least half a dozen sets on hand at any given time(at least 2 for off-tanking) and swap between them with dressing room or similar add-on

Let me tell you of a horrific barren place called the land of console. In this land we can not magically change clothes like Superman in a phone booth. Computers do not tell us when to block. We receive no warnings when our potions or buffs expire. In this land we sadly pick a build and stick to it.

Nagastani · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Werewolf tank is your answer.

Join the revolution 🤘

This

The DPS must FLOW.

BXR_Lonestar · May 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

I can't say I feel particularly helpless when I'm tanking for a group with low DPS, but that's because often those are the groups who need a good tank more than they know. I might feel like I'm working hard for comparatively little gain, but that's not quite the same.

Now, the times I feel helpless as a tank are when an untauntable red phase Centurion starts chasing a DD, who starts running and screaming "Tank?!! in chat. Believe me, I'd pull it off you if I could.

I feel you here. Nothing worse than playing a tank and trying to tank a boss that doesn't aggro well. Bosses that like to charge wildly, regardless of whether you aggro them, bosses that teleport and go after random/nearest target after, or bosses that just straight up use AoE and don't focus on any single target - all suck when your the tank.

I guess you can still play to reduce resistances of the target, but still doesn't feel like you are doing your job when the boss is attacking your teammates and you can't do anything about it. In those situations, Brands of the Imperium is a nice set because at least you can give your teammates a hefty shield every so often.

Iccotak · May 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

You seem to have high expectations from completely random players. My expectation is that they occasionally point their weapons toward enemy targets and know where the left mouse button is. I'm still disappointed more often that I'd like to be.

You mean when the game lowers the bar for skill required to clear over 90% of the content - that players don't learn how to actually play the game?

Shocking

Iccotak · May 2021

Removed - Question solved

Athan1 · May 2021

MoreTune wrote: »

Full Group support tank here in perfected yolnahkrin and powerful assault.
I swap out encratis vs tremorscale based on group in dungeons.

My build literally focuses around buffing group dps and yet I’m stuck in dungeons holding aggro for 3-5 minutes per boss fight.

Meanwhile I swap to my dps toon and clear dungeons in 5 minutes.

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

Well this is how support roles work. It's a symbiosis: Support roles need the damage dealers to kill the bosses and dds need support to survive. I feel more helpless as a healer because I don't have the survivability of a tank, so I need to heal/buff everyone while also surviving the aoes

oldbobdude · May 2021

I am a newer player and my DPS would probably be considered low. I normally group up with guild so they know I'm still learning.

I am very grateful for our tanks and healers.

People have to learn and the folks who have already been through that learning curve should try and remember what it was like. Nobody starts off with DPS in the high range. I do fair in overland because the fights don't last so long, but if a fight stretches over a few minutes my rotation starts to suffer.

Zodiarkslayer · May 2021

I think Tanking is much more rewarding than Healing.
Keeping the cool is more fun than trying to keep up with the hectic fight and frustrating yourself with bad DPS, unable to not stand in red.

Hysorn · May 2021

Honestly, my biggest gripe with tanking is that, like most MMORPGs, being a tank means you are absolutely miserable doing content on your own. As DPS I can move around from doing world content to instanced content at will, just have to adjust my bars. As healers it's about the same since you still have a lot of resources. As a tank you have no magica or stamina, your main weapon deals as much damage as a wet noodle so you kinda are just standing there taking 3 mins or more to kill a mob that it takes less than 2 mins for a DPS player.

I enjoy having the freedom to play as I wish, some days I wanna grind end game content, others I just wanna quest. Being a tank makes me feel pretty awkward on that regard most of the times.

remosito · May 2021

Know the feeling.

My next project is a tank/dps setup. No sense in buffing crappy dps. Better do more dps myself...

Artemis_X_ · May 2021

remosito wrote: »

Know the feeling.

My next project is a tank/dps setup. No sense in buffing crappy dps. Better do more dps myself...

I do something like this with my dd for when I get a fake tank in pug group dungeons. I carry a tank set and quick sawp skills out so I tank the tricky stuff then swap back to dd after

AnyOldIron · May 2021

Try experimenting with some different sets, for example Crimson/Leeching/Thurvokun or Maw of the Infernal and put the fun back into tanking. BiS and meta are all well and good but can get a bit boring when doing regular content. Only a suggestion of course. You do you